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Wii U Community Thread

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L

Log4Girlz

Member
Gahiggidy said:
Excuse me if the following comes across as whiney....


I'm still peeved that there is no plans to put Pikmin 3 online. I was reading people explain that the 100 on-screen pikmin makes this very difficult to track online, but then I realized that Pikmin are AI. They don't need to be tracked at all as long as the two internet players are running same copy of the game. Isn't the main thing that is transmitted across games in online play is the input from the other player(s)? If that's the case I don't see how pikmin is any more tricky to get working online than any other 2-player game. Once you would have built the net-code to transmit the player input to each other's console, the only extra work would be in dealing with how to handle lag, which in Pikmin's case is not a big deal as the players don't even interact with each other directly.

At the end of the day, the only thing you need to transmit over the network is the I/O data from the player's controller. Nothing else. (I think.)

Where am I going wrong?

For reference, here is what Miyamoto used as a reason for no online Pikmin:

"But in the situation of Pikmin, for example, since you would have lots of individual, small creatures, the Pikmin, whose every movement and location is going to be really important in the game, it would be very difficult to sync up over an internet connection."​


I hope he is wrong about this, because to have a Pikmin game online is a gamer's dream come true, imo.
Click to expand...

Close your eyes. Feel that warm, soft sensation on your forehead? That's Nintendo teabagging you.



lol ;)
 
G

gamergirly

Member
Pikmins fanbase is small. If nobody buys Pikmin 3 then we won't get a Pikmin 4, nevertheless an ONLINE Pikmin 4. Lets support this game so the future looks better
 
J

jwj442

Member
Has this been posted yet? Reggie says Miiverse moderation only happens if someone flags a post:
The way to think about how we will ensure a positive consumer experience with MiiVerse… first, there are parental controls. As a parent you can choose for your child not to have any MiiVerse conversation. You can do it only with friends. You can do it with everyone.

The second level is going to be essentially a technology-driven scan to make sure that inappropriate words and inappropriate pictures don't make it onto MiiVerse. The third level is going to be the community that will police and flag items. The fourth level is for a human review at Nintendo.

Let's take that example. I need help with level so-and-so. The technical scan happens. There's no bad words. It happens.
Click to expand...
http://kotaku.com/5917363/better-fr...-nintendo-answers-our-burning-wii-u-questions
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
gamergirly said:
Pikmins fanbase is small. If nobody buys Pikmin 3 then we won't get a Pikmin 4, nevertheless an ONLINE Pikmin 4. Lets support this game so the future looks better
Click to expand...

If my theory is correct, than a DLC to get the P3 multiplayar modes online is very possible. Nintendo just needs the will.


-----

Hey, I was just watching a show floor video of Zombi U and overheard in the background a guy from another video recording of the game from a next door station. I guess if you watch enough of these that is bound to happen. lol
 
Smiles and Cries

Smiles and Cries

Member
W

watershed

Banned
I don't believe anything that website says. It all reads like a Nintendo fan's optimism run amok and nothing we saw at E3 confirmed anything they posted prior iirc.
 
M

MDX

Member
DragonSworne said:
What's the latest rumor/info on WiiU specs?
Click to expand...

launch games giving mature PS3 games a run for its money:

arkham-city-wii-u.jpg
 
E

Effect

Member
Thunder Monkey said:
If they'd ever tried to create a competent online system, or at least learned from others they'd know it's no more challenging than most. You have much more direct control over a limited number of Pikmin, but RTS games have been dealing with hundreds if not thousands of player controller units. Again, direct control isn't there, but it still shouldn't be impossible.
Click to expand...

They've also had more then enough time to get work out this problem or get outside help. 6+ years it seems. This is part of why I'm not jumping for Pikmin 3 in the end. Certainly not at full price or even new. Maybe months later when it can be gotten real cheap. This is why I'm not that interested in NSMBU as well. Launch games can be rough and disappointing. Nintendo is the one company that should be leading the way and not disappointing as they have the most to prove why people should stick with their console and not simply stay with the PS3/360 and hold out for the PS4/720. Especially those people they lost because the Wii wasn't satisfying them.

There is no excuse for how Pikmin 3 is turning out I feel considering the year it's coming out and how it's suppose to be a flagship title. Even if the audience is small it's the type I think age wise (where they are in life now compared to year ago when the Pikmin 1 and 2 came out on the Cube) that would benefit the most from online multiplayer and not local multiplayer.
 
T

Thraktor

Member
Gahiggidy said:
Excuse me if the following comes across as whiney....


I'm still peeved that there is no plans to put Pikmin 3 online. I was reading people explain that the 100 on-screen pikmin makes this very difficult to track online, but then I realized that Pikmin are AI. They don't need to be tracked at all as long as the two internet players are running same copy of the game. Isn't the main thing that is transmitted across games in online play is the input from the other player(s)? If that's the case I don't see how pikmin is any more tricky to get working online than any other 2-player game. Once you would have built the net-code to transmit the player input to each other's console, the only extra work would be in dealing with how to handle lag, which in Pikmin's case is not a big deal as the players don't even interact with each other directly.

At the end of the day, the only thing you need to transmit over the network is the I/O data from the player's controller. Nothing else. (I think.)

Where am I going wrong?

For reference, here is what Miyamoto used as a reason for no online Pikmin:

"But in the situation of Pikmin, for example, since you would have lots of individual, small creatures, the Pikmin, whose every movement and location is going to be really important in the game, it would be very difficult to sync up over an internet connection."​


I hope he is wrong about this, because to have a Pikmin game online is a gamer's dream come true, imo.
Click to expand...

In theory, so long as the game code is deterministic, simply transferring the control data would be enough. The problem is that this theory depends on the control data being received at exactly the same time on each console, which obviously isn't the case in the real world. Even a few milliseconds difference in timing between the two consoles receiving the data can cause the physics or AI or general game code to react differently, which can cause the games to go dramatically out of sync.

Generally how online games work is that one console acts as the host (or if you're a member of the PC master race a dedicated server does this job), which runs the "official" game code, and sends out regular updates to the other consoles with the full state of the game. Each of the other consoles runs their own game code to keep things looking smooth between updates, then over-writes their game state with the official one when an update is received.

Anyway, long story short, Miyamoto is correct when he says that the position and status of every pikmin would have to be sent over the Internet, but posters above are correct when they say that plenty of RTS games already do this.
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
Smiles and Cries said:
just what I was against giving that website another link
http://wiiudaily.com/2012/03/grand-theft-auto-5-coming-to-wii-u-in-2013/

:(
Click to expand...

They best not be lying.

I actually loved the world of GTAIV.

Not because it had an Oscar worthy story, but because I've never seen a realistic(ish) game-world realized that well.

Everything from the food to the TV to the internet to the very dialog is western life satirized. With it's own art style, and a gameplay style that may be a little more reserved than necessary for such a bombastic escapade.

I really enjoyed that return to Liberty City. I even had fun in BoGT managing my club.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
Pikmin 3 won't have online because they want the game out around launch and don't want to risk not having it finished in time by adding it. It's as simple as that, really.
 
R

Roman

Member
Plinko said:
I'm sure Ace would have disappeared when they said a 2D Mario would be available at launch. He ripped into a couple of us when we said that was a definite.
Click to expand...

Don't worry. He frequents the chat and I remind him almost daily of just how wrong he was. :p

(He still thinks it's a bad idea).
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
I'm sure Ace'll see your message, hehe..

And my heart isn't the least bit broken on the whole no-online-for-Pikmin issue. I'm not looking forward to a future where every game that doesn't have online features is met with complain, complain, complain. The way you guys talk about online makes it seem like the end-all, be-all of gaming.. the holy grail. And I just can't bring myself to care about that issue. *shrug*
 
P

Penguin

Member
HylianTom said:
I'm sure Ace'll see your message, hehe..

And my heart isn't the least bit broken on the whole no-online-for-Pikmin issue. I'm not looking forward to a future where every game that doesn't have online features is met with complain, complain, complain. The way you guys talk about online makes it seem like the end-all, be-all of gaming.. the holy grail. And I just can't bring myself to care about that issue. *shrug*
Click to expand...

Well every game is already like that...

Then ironically... "Why did you add multi to this game, its not needed!"

This past e3 has shown me that the game industry is full of catch-22s.

And yes I realize Pikmin already has 4 player co-op so makes sense to be online, but meant in general.
 
Smiles and Cries

Smiles and Cries

Member
E3 just ended and I cannot help but feel cheated I want more good rumors even better I want leaked images of games being held back

Gamescom is in August I would hove that is not the next place for updates

I do not want this month to end without a new Nintendo Direct

now that IdeaMan has blown his wad do we have any other heroes?

did BG drop his secret? Did he tell us what it was? That thing he said he would say after E3
 
M

MDX

Member
Tim-E said:
Pikmin 3 won't have online because they want the game out around launch and don't want to risk not having it finished in time by adding it. It's as simple as that, really.
Click to expand...

This cant be said enough.
It started as a Wii game so online was probably not in the plans, they need a first party game ready for launch, and at this point adding online will Kid Icarus the game out of the launch window.

It sucks, but it will also suck if the only known franchise Nintendo will have ready for launch is a 2D mario game. They had to make sacrifices. No guarantee third parties will keep their promises (like THQ and Metro).
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
Thunder Monkey said:
They best not be lying.
Click to expand...
I can find no financial report, SEC filing or similar whatsoever stating that Grand Theft Auto V will be released for Wii U. Since Rockstar Games is a wholly owned subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., they're forced by law to file reports regularly, and something as major as this would most certainly be a part of such a report.

There's of course the chance that the report hasn't been published yet for the public to see, but I've never heard of any investor meeting etc. where attendees haven't had access to relevant documents. And since that site isn't even naming a source except for the mentioned report, it sounds very fishy.
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Rösti;38839012 said:
I can find no financial report, SEC filing or similar whatsoever stating that Grand Theft Auto V will be released for Wii U. Since Rockstar Games is a wholly owned subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., they're forced by law to file reports regularly, and something as major as this would most certainly be a part of such a report.

There's of course the chance that the report hasn't been published yet for the public to see, but I've never heard of any investor meeting etc. where attendees haven't had access to relevant documents. And since that site isn't even naming a source except for the mentioned report, it sounds very fishy.
Click to expand...

Yeah that report is bullcrap.
 
E

EVIL

Member
Smiles and Cries said:
E3 just ended and I cannot help but feel cheated I want more good rumors even better I want leaked images of games being held back

Gamescom is in August I would hove that is not the next place for updates

I do not want this month to end without a new Nintendo Direct

now that IdeaMan has blown his wad do we have any other heroes?

did BG drop his secret? Did he tell us what it was? That thing he said he would say after E3
Click to expand...

nintendo wont be attending Gamescom, so I doubt we will hear anything at gamescom for wii u
 
F

Fourth Storm

Member
Wow, I can't believe I haven't posted in this thread yet, but between my somewhat deflated hype and my life being generally hectic at the moment, I suppose it slipped passed me.

I did go back and read up on the latest technical spec controversy. Very intriguing (and somewhat mind blowing). Just to throw my two cents into the bucket, even if the CPU is weaker, if the price is right ($300), Nintendoland is a pack-in, and they launch in black, I'm still there day one. If they launch only in white, I hold off.

Rösti;38839012 said:
I can find no financial report, SEC filing or similar whatsoever stating that Grand Theft Auto V will be released for Wii U. Since Rockstar Games is a wholly owned subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc., they're forced by law to file reports regularly, and something as major as this would most certainly be a part of such a report.

There's of course the chance that the report hasn't been published yet for the public to see, but I've never heard of any investor meeting etc. where attendees haven't had access to relevant documents. And since that site isn't even naming a source except for the mentioned report, it sounds very fishy.
Click to expand...

Yes, the lack of a source link in that article is pretty damning. I'm getting real sick of the phony reports...
 
nordique

nordique

Member
bgassassin said:
Well Nirolak did say to contact a mod about this kind of stuff, and he's definitely pushing me to that point because it's getting annoying.
Click to expand...

I just read this (didn't realize there was a new thread in here :p)


and I second this motion by Nirolak. You'd be an excellent mod, bg
 
nordique

nordique

Member
wsippel said:
Considering I already posted the theory on B3D, I might as well post it here, too:

From the leaked specs, it becomes apparent that the Wii U won't have a Broadway CPU for BC. Instead, the Wii U CPU will be fully binary compatible, including all the custom features like L1 cache locking, write gather pipe and proprietary SIMD instructions. Moving all those custom features to a completely different PPC64 chip, a modified Power7 for example, is probably not exactly trivial - using something closer to the 750 line should be a more straight forward approach.

Another interesting detail is that the toolchain Nintendo uses doesn't support Power7 or Cell or any other big IBM design. It's heavily optimized for embedded 32bit PowerPCs like the IBM 4xx or Freescale e500 lines of cores. And the 4xx, more specifically the 470S, seems to be IBMs go-to design for custom processors these days. The design is out-of-order with a very short pipeline, supports SMP and tons of L2 cache, is highly modular, small, cheap and efficient. It's also 45nm SoI, so there's that as well. But it doesn't support SMT (not that it would really benefit from SMT in the first place), which is something the Wii U CPU reportedly does.

But what if the chip isn't really multi-threaded in a traditional sense? In 1996, a company called Digital Equipment introduced a processor that did SMT in a pretty unique way: Each "core" was actually two cores that only shared cache and early pipeline stages (fetch and decode). Cheaper and more energy efficient than using two full blown cores, and the performance is much more predictable as the threads don't have to compete for resources. That's how modern AMD Bulldozer cores work as well, by the way.

My theory at this point is that the Wii U uses a "three core", dual threaded 32bit PowerPC that's actually made of six modified 470S cores with Gekko features and FPUs (and whatever new shit the engineers came up with). Using eDRAM as L2 cache should further reduce space and power consumption. Such a design should offer a pretty damn good performance/ Watt and performance/ Dollar ratio and mesh very well with the few known facts.
Click to expand...


Sounds excellent, and more in line with what the CPU is shaping up to be. Good theory/catch wsippel!
 
B

bgassassin

Member
nordique said:
I just read this (didn't realize there was a new thread in here :p)


and I second this motion by Nirolak. You'd be an excellent mod, bg
Click to expand...

Wait what? Nooooooo. That was dealing with trolling posts.

Also we have rumor that Wii U is using a GPGPU, which would explain the CPU issues.
 
P

Penguin

Member
Smiles and Cries said:
I read in the ZombiU thread that Ubisoft promised a new build at gamescom not sure where to poster got the info but polished ZombiU would be nice to see
Click to expand...

Well just because Nintendo isn't attending doesn't mean 3rd parties need to sit at home.

Gives them even more of a spotlight really.
 
G

gamergirly

Member
I found this question from the Investor Meeting above most telling as far as reasons why we are not seeing titles, and pretty much confirms that 6 month release theory:

Question: I understand for the Wii, Mr. Miyamoto designed a system with about five or six key titles in mind: “Wii Sports,” “Wii Sports Resort,” “Wii Music” and several others. Has something similar occurred this time? So far, obviously we’ve seen “Pikmin 3,” but is there a similar strategy of a range of titles that he is playing a role in to create that is the plan for the next two or three years for the Wii U?

Iwata:

First, what we’ve shown at the E3 show are both the launch titles that will be released with Wii U hardware this holiday season and the launch window titles that will be released early next year or not long after the hardware launch. We do have ideas of what kind of software we will be releasing after those two periods, and Mr. Miyamoto as well as I are both directly involved in the development process. Those include both our traditional franchises and of course new propositions as well. However, because we are now in the era when similar proposals can be made by the others just one year after we introduced a brand-new hardware system proposal, please understand that we really can’t say much about what else we are planning.
Click to expand...

They gonna make it very hard for you to copy their products in the future. Guess the internet has really changed what advantages companies have now
 
nordique

nordique

Member
Thraktor said:
I understand this, but I still don't know why Nintendo and EA were so hesitant to even confirm the existence of games like FIFA and Madden. It's not as if the platform getting a FIFA game and a Madden game is some sort of earth-shattering megaton. The same with Blops 2 and Skylanders, I really don't understand Nintendo's strategy in not allowing Activision to even talk about these.

I'm also a bit surprised that EA and Activision are willing to go along with Nintendo with this degree of secrecy post-E3. The only guess I could make would be that the launch window titles not shown yet are the ones Nintendo will be contributing to the advertising spend on, as I'm sure a seven-figure sum to spend on advertising would encourage them to keep quiet.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly, but it may be because those are generally large selling games to the masses, and Nintendo may want to highlight some Upad usage that separate it from the PS360 versions
 
A

AzaK

Member
EVIL said:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/120606qa/index.html
was posted on gaming gaf
Click to expand...
Thanks. I assume it was a translational error but This excited me for an instant.

We haven’t said anything about the hard drive that we’ll be including with the system itself. But we have said, through the USB connection, consumers will be able to take advantage of a wide range of the hard drives that are available in the market, and for quite cheap now, to add memory to their system however they like.
Click to expand...
 
M

MDX

Member
gamergirly said:
I found this question from the Investor Meeting above most telling as far as reasons why we are not seeing titles, and pretty much confirms that 6 month release theory:



They gonna make it very hard for you to copy their products in the future. Guess the internet has really changed what advantages companies have now
Click to expand...


I dont think they mean user pirates, I think they mean corporate pirates.
As in, they dont want to show what games they are making until they are ready for launch because Sony and MS steal/borrow/take advantage of their ideas and concepts.
 
F

Fourth Storm

Member
wsippel said:
Considering I already posted the theory on B3D, I might as well post it here, too:

From the leaked specs, it becomes apparent that the Wii U won't have a Broadway CPU for BC. Instead, the Wii U CPU will be fully binary compatible, including all the custom features like L1 cache locking, write gather pipe and proprietary SIMD instructions. Moving all those custom features to a completely different PPC64 chip, a modified Power7 for example, is probably not exactly trivial - using something closer to the 750 line should be a more straight forward approach.

Another interesting detail is that the toolchain Nintendo uses doesn't support Power7 or Cell or any other big IBM design. It's heavily optimized for embedded 32bit PowerPCs like the IBM 4xx or Freescale e500 lines of cores. And the 4xx, more specifically the 470S, seems to be IBMs go-to design for custom processors these days. The design is out-of-order with a very short pipeline, supports SMP and tons of L2 cache, is highly modular, small, cheap and efficient. It's also 45nm SoI, so there's that as well. But it doesn't support SMT (not that it would really benefit from SMT in the first place), which is something the Wii U CPU reportedly does.

But what if the chip isn't really multi-threaded in a traditional sense? In 1996, a company called Digital Equipment introduced a processor that did SMT in a pretty unique way: Each "core" was actually two cores that only shared cache and early pipeline stages (fetch and decode). Cheaper and more energy efficient than using two full blown cores, and the performance is much more predictable as the threads don't have to compete for resources. That's how modern AMD Bulldozer cores work as well, by the way.

My theory at this point is that the Wii U uses a "three core", dual threaded 32bit PowerPC that's actually made of six modified 470S cores with Gekko features and FPUs (and whatever new shit the engineers came up with). Using eDRAM as L2 cache should further reduce space and power consumption. Such a design should offer a pretty damn good performance/ Watt and performance/ Dollar ratio and mesh very well with the few known facts.
Click to expand...

Damn, this was posted 4 days ago? I'm truly behind the times. Thanks for the interesting analysis/speculation as usual, wsippel.

One question: How does this theory fit with the tidbit you dug up previously - namely that the CPU was designed to run at anywhere from 1-4 Ghz? (I believe those were the numbers you gave, but correct me if I'm wrong.)
 
L

Linkhero1

Member
Thunder Monkey said:
Hey in hindsight apparently my bare minimum wasn't even enough to vault over.

So there's that.

Still can't believe nothing from 2013 was shown. Nothing to even allude to ongoing support.
Click to expand...

I don't get it either. Not sure what they're goal is. Third parties seem to be in on this as well.

TriGen said:
He was modest with his predictions on the hardware, but he expected a lot from the games. He would have been really pissed at no 2013 titles. I remeber him saying "Retro's game will definetly be there" so that alone would have bothered him big time.
Click to expand...

True, but he probably was a lot more calm than the majority of us were :p
 
I

IdeaMan

My source is my ass!
Smiles and Cries said:
E3 just ended and I cannot help but feel cheated I want more good rumors even better I want leaked images of games being held back

Gamescom is in August I would hove that is not the next place for updates

I do not want this month to end without a new Nintendo Direct

now that IdeaMan has blown his wad do we have any other heroes?

did BG drop his secret? Did he tell us what it was? That thing he said he would say after E3
Click to expand...

Gross sentence :p

I do have other infos but i'm thinking of another way to disclose them. And it's obviously not to the level of 2 gamepad support or no system redesign, a lot of things were confirmed or revealed at E3, some others not (the OS other than Miiverse, online service, and storage approach). I'll have more info about the other systems i think.
 
nordique

nordique

Member
EatChildren said:
I will agree that it is a plus to have compute programming support on the GPU, and I didn't expect it. I'm glad they do, as it's a smart move. I suppose, at the very least, even if other variables stand in the way of ports, compute programming should increase compatibility with next generation middleware.

The devkit specs leak just prior to their press conference listed compute programming and tessellation support. There's a possibility the devkit leak was inaccurate or the feature set was disabled (which would be stupid and improbable), but the rest of the specs lined up nicely with what I already knew so I assume all of it was true.
Click to expand...


GPGPU support, if true (which as you indicate it seems to be) is a very smart move on Nintendo's part.

I was certainly not expecting that.

Bodes very well for possible UE4 support
 
F

Fourth Storm

Member
Random thought: I wonder if the decreased draw distance in Batman: AC confirms that they are using DDR3 and not GDDR5. Wouldn't this aspect of the engine most likely be reliant on memory bandwidth?
 
Smiles and Cries

Smiles and Cries

Member
Nibel said:
Exclusive Rayman Legends Wii U gameplay

Source: Eurogamer
Click to expand...

do you need two people to play this game?

I feel the use of the gamepad is kinda retarded from single use
you have someone else controlling rayman while you control this Navi like dude to clear the path of him.

this is again the same use as NSMBU with making platforms for mario

oh well maybe they just want to show off the concept and lonely GAF will have a good single player experience


IdeaMan said:
Gross sentence :p

I do have other infos but i'm thinking of another way to disclose them. And it's obviously not to the level of 2 gamepad support or no system redesign, a lot of things were confirmed or revealed at E3, some others not (the OS other than Miiverse, online service, and storage approach). I'll have more info about the other systems i think.
Click to expand...

well you can make threads now :)
thats good looking forward to it
 
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