I don't think they'd ever stop having them anytime soon, but I think this E3 specifically highlighted that these conferences are only just one media event in a year full of other oppertunities to show off new products. The big three console companies don't treat the event as "Gamer Christmas" anymore; with all three of them spending nearly all of their time on games that were previously announced or known about. It's a week full of noise, and you're more likely to get noticed if you announce things separately on slow news days instead of in the mess of that event.
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Wii U Community Thread
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I don't think they'd ever stop having them anytime soon, but I think this E3 specifically highlighted that these conferences are only just one media event in a year full of other oppertunities to show off new products. The big three console companies don't treat the event as "Gamer Christmas" anymore; with all three of them spending nearly all of their time on games that were previously announced or known about. It's a week full of noise, and you're more likely to get noticed if you announce things separately on slow news days instead of in the mess of that event.
The 3DS was a botched launch from nintendo because they didn't have any games ready and third parties had lack lustre games available.
The WiiU will have AAA titles, some old, some new, at launch from both internal and third party. So this is completely different to the 3DS. Nintendo have stated that the dry spell after the 3DS launch was a major problem, this resulted in a lack of momentum. So to me it seems clear that nintendo will try and drip feed us big titles over the first year/year and a half if possible, which might have been the reason for the quite e3 on their front.
In the end, you can only play/purchase so many games at a time, any more than 24 titles at launch can have a negative impact as well. You might not pick up a game at launch and six months down the track the titles doesn't look as enticing because it's 6 months old, even if you haven't played it. Whereas hyping a title that arrives 6 month down the track can continue to momentum from launch.
This is all under the proviso that nintendo isn't devoid of AAA titles near completion. I mean, what else have they been working on
Black Rainbow
Member
I think you're onto something. I was very pleased with Nintendo's E3 press conference but even I have to admit that E3 as a whole felt more subdued this year.
gamergirly
Member
E3 is just not that important anymore. We're in an era where big game announcements are more probable to happen at Nintendos own events or on Nintendo Direct
So, this is already being discussed in the main forum, but what do you think about this statement by Iwata?"
I think he is chiefly thinking about Japan here, and I think he might be correct. In the West, I think he is off the mark.
I think he is chiefly thinking about Japan here, and I think he might be correct. In the West, I think he is off the mark.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Having Mini E3s (ND) throughout the year is better than just one big event
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The problem is that there isn't that many Japanese third-party stuff on PS360 and even the developers working on those systems have started talking about taking it another level with like the new Final Fantasy tech demo. Still, would be better than nothing.
Black Rainbow
Member
He's right on target, as usual.
For the West it would depend a lot on the studio, but Japan definitely won't handle the transition well. Except for maybe Capcom.
I could see a hypothetical scenario where Ubisoft runs into trouble if a big cash bet falls through sales-wise. But I guess the same goes for anything really. If you already have a franchise that can do at least 4 million units worldwide you'll be fine, even if team sizes continue to grow.
Edit: Worth noting that the issue of being able to graphically differentiate from the current generation with new hardware is something even some prominent Western developers have talked about, so that isn't a concern specific to Iwata.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
There is tremendous room to grow in graphical rendering and anybody who questions otherwise simply has no experience with such hardware. EG: High end PCs.
When he says that I assume he's thinking of Japan, and specifically Nintendo IPs.
When he says that I assume he's thinking of Japan, and specifically Nintendo IPs.
Well, the context of his statements was pretty clearly 3rd parties. I really think he is thinking primarily of Japanese third parties, in which case I think he might be mostly correct.
bgassassin
Member
Reminds me of CliffyB, but from a different angle.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
From its early days Nintendo didn't care about graphics, most of their consoles were outdated I'm comparison with the given tech but thats the correct thing to do since they are a gaming company that just focuses on games and produces games that ranges from ok to excellent each generation. The graphics is just a part of the gaming equation that should be taken into consideration but to a certain extent.
That's how Nintendo operates a lot lately. They're a global company that seemingly makes their decisions with Japan first in mind and sometimes only with Japan in mind. Not sure how much longer that's going to work for them though. The Japanese focus isn't completely a bad thing but localization is going to be a huge issue if they are making decisions in regard to Japanese 3rd party support (which I think could very well be the case and why we haven't see many more games) and not western 3rd party support.
He didn't say there isn't room to grow, just that it wouldn't be immediately discernable to the average consumer.
And John Carmack has said the same thing, albeit in the context of why people need to start looking at completely new rendering technologies.
Black Rainbow
Member
I don't think that's strictly true. Perhaps if you're talking about handhelds, but the fact of the matter is Nintendo's home consoles have had parity with competing home consoles, Wii excepted.
Square-Enix also had such tech demos at the beginning of this current generation, and I think it's obvious they've struggled with releasing a consistent stream of titles on PS360. Most of their successful publishing efforts in the US on the HD twins were riding on the back of Eidos. Square-Enix used to be known for having a wide range of IPs and a constant stream of releases, now they're a joke to the west compared to where they were a decade ago. When they shoot for the stars on the consoles anymore, it seems as if so much of what people love about their games gets lost in the process. I think they have been at their best in the handheld space this last decade, and I think they should continue with that.
Yeah I was thinking about potential SE support for Wii U, and honestly struggled to find all that much.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'm pretty on the fence about that. On one hand I think we're at a stage now where we can accurately render and present human beings and environments in a way that makes them look legitimately authentic. Not necessarily real, but enough to convincingly portray a realistic world (unlike the N64/GCN era of rendering).
On the other hand, seeing what we can accomplish with technology there's still so much more room to go, and since a lot of mass market consumers haven't seen this technology in action it's hard to guage whether or not they can spot the difference. I mean, can a mass market audience identify that Avatar and Prometheus CGI greatly exceeds characters rendered in Assassin's Creed and Uncharted? I think they can, but it's relative. Everything looks good enough now because in the realm of games it's all they know. When put side by side against something clearly better, with organic creatures rendered with a disturbing level of detail, I think they'd notice right away.
For Microsoft and Sony I think their next generation consoles, out of the gate, will depend less on the hardware and more on what they show, especially launch games. If that hardware isn't used in a way to make the games look significantly better than current generation, even if it's capable of doing so, then the mass market wont notice the difference. Not for awhile.
Next E3 is going to be absolutely fascinating to watch.
It is possible you could have 5 systems all showing games looking more or less about the same. Maybe Sony or Microsoft will have a holy shit game ready, but I'm pretty skeptical about that.
I still think Nintendo has an opportunity to muddy the waters next year.
The company probably wouldn't exist outside of Japan right now if it weren't for Eidos. I personally think they need to scale back and focus on what they do right instead of trying to do everything.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Kingdom Hearts 3, DQX, and maybe FFXIV 2.0 are possible, but I think most of their stuff moving forward will be 3DS with Final Fantasy XV and beyond probably being on like PS4 or Durango.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
That's why I'm bummed they didn't do it this year, when they had ~12 months opening. Microsoft and Sony are pretty experienced with getting tech demos on show for their hardware. I figure both know they're going to have to sell what their hardware can bring to graphics, and both are in good positions to do so.
I mean, if they can produce an open world style game, something big and interactive (and not painfully controlled like Beyond), with faces that look similar to this:
And animated convincingly, then I think people will be blown away.
We will eventually reach this level of graphics and interaction, no questions. Whether it's on a dedicated machine or streamed to your TV, PC or whatever. People will be blown away by it as well.
I think the bigger issues are the spinoff questions that arise from updating graphics tech to that level.
How does the public react to games centered on graphic violence and realism at this level of graphical fidelity? I personally got nauseated on occasion when watching a friend play through Max Payne 3. Something about the liquid blood really got to me. (not claiming I represent the larger gaming population, just relating my point to experiences I have had) Others are having these reactions too and it's starting to get more publicity.
Many posters on neogaf tend to really downplay the social and psychological elements of gaming in favor of focusing on graphical minutia and sales numbers, but those "moments of wonder" that enthusiasts experience when they see hot new graphics may not at all be the same for large parts of the population.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think western third parties want more power.
I think alcoholics want more beer.
I think alcoholics want more beer.
Yeah, I just don't think Nintendo is really in tune with what the Western developers want to do.
The opportunity I think they have is in Japan. Of course, right now literally nothing has been announced so I'm just guessing on Japanese 3rd parties at this point.
That's why I'm bummed they didn't do it this year, when they had ~12 months opening. Microsoft and Sony are pretty experienced with getting tech demos on show for their hardware. I figure both know they're going to have to sell what their hardware can bring to graphics, and both are in good positions to do so.
I mean, if they can produce an open world style game, something big and interactive (and not painfully controlled like Beyond), with faces that look similar to this:
And animated convincingly, then I think people will be blown away.
Can I just say up close models of human faces scare me
Playing through Heavy Rain right now, and the loading screens.. are the creepiest things I've ever seen.
*Hides in a corner*
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
What about Western 3rd party liver?
And they'll eventually end up like my father, dead at a young age.
Well we know not all of them can handle their alcohol, which is why they are no longer with us!
I think gamers want more games.
ShockingAlberto
Member
If the spec jump I've heard is true, then I am not sure we're going to be getting that without massive increases in break-even sellpoints.
God, how the metaphor writes itself..
More developers going under, sounds fun.
ugh. Tell me Japan isn't going along with this.
nordique
Member
Not only that but also the average consumer by-and-large
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
What a shame, because that's not happening.
nordique
Member
I'll enjoy so much playing EA Sport games every month!
...Strangely, what Alberto is saying is kind of a positive news for Wii U, since
1)It's possible it could be even more than a year alone on the market
2)If it sells in a good way, why would TP develop for consoles for which development takes so many resources that they couldn't even have a profit selling something like 3 millions of copies.
*golf clap*
And I thought Pete's comments about 5-7 million was insane...
The problem is that shrinks of the chips (which manufacturers used to rely on more for cost reduction) are much more difficult now than they used to be. And this goes for both Xenon and Cell. I think this is why they are finding it difficult, and why MS is toying with stuff like subscription models.
Not really. Do you recall E3 2005? CG abound.
Penguin said:
I think Pete is underselling the requirements for big-budget AAA titles to break even nowadays.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The PS4 and Xbox 3 could be releasing in 5 months by e3 2013.
Controlling a character like that on screen would be disturbingly similar to the idea of controlling a real person as if they were just a puppet. As indicated by the use of the word 'disturbingly,' that would be somewhat disturbing to me. If it looks indistinguishable from real-life, I actually think that could be a problem instead of an advantage for higher processing rendering. Maybe I'll think differently when processing power gets to that point, but some level of abstraction from reality may be a help instead of a hindrance.
That's not a comment on Wii U or PS480. Just generally discussing video games that might become indistinguishable from reality.
You are putting to much value on "them graphix".That's why I'm bummed they didn't do it this year, when they had ~12 months opening. Microsoft and Sony are pretty experienced with getting tech demos on show for their hardware. I figure both know they're going to have to sell what their hardware can bring to graphics, and both are in good positions to do so.
I mean, if they can produce an open world style game, something big and interactive (and not painfully controlled like Beyond), with faces that look similar to this:
And animated convincingly, then I think people will be blown away.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/graphics-vs.-aesthetics
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I think next gen is going to be about man power than actual tech. I think more and more were going to see collaborations between FX houses and Game devs. The pipelines are becoming very similar. You can have all the power you want but it wont mean a thing if you don't have the talent and man power.
Sure, but do you recall Madden? Again, there will be CG.
GameplayWhore
Member
I, and I suspect most people who play games for most game genres, would find the same amount of fun in controlling this guy and controlling a guy with far fewer polygons, especially if he controls the exact same way and the game is otherwise functionally identical. I believe that the demand for hyperrealism is very highly overstated in the gaming community.
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