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[bgassassin]

If the spec jump I've heard is true, then I am not sure we're going to be getting that without massive increases in break-even sellpoints.

Meh. I'm not that impressed with what I've heard about Xbox 3 so far. I'll need more details to see if I change my stance.

Via Nirolak: Dead Space 3 "not currently in the plan" for Wii U.

Whatever the reasons why, I'm still amazed that Nintendo has seemingly had such a terrible success rate at convincing third parties to greenlight Wii U versions of current-gen multiplatform games. I never would have thought a year ago that it'd turn out this badly, but I guess I was just being naive.

That may go back to what the person who brought up the GPGPU said. That Wii U lost out on PS360 ports of some games because they would have to rework their code to use the GPU "as intended" and doing that didn't work within their release schedules.

 

[Azure J]

Meh. I'm not that impressed with what I've heard about Xbox 3 so far. I'll need more details to see if I change my stance.

Impressed in a technical stance or impressed in a "oh God, they won't stop bleeding money" stance?

 

[Donnie]

So then, why not just get the next MS/Sony console that will have much better graphics if everything else is essentially the same. The pad is the selling point of the Wii

That's like saying.. PS4/Xbox3 won't have a requirement for games to have better graphics than WiiU. So why not get WiiU instead, will have better controls, if everything else is the same? Graphics are the selling point of PS4/Xbox3.

Seriously just because using the screen isn't a requirement that doesn't make the games on the system essentially the same as those on other consoles. Some games will make good use of the controller, differentiating WiiU from other consoles. Some games won't, allowing devs who don't want to think up unique ideas to simply release your typical console game.

WiiUs controller, unlike Wiis, allows for new features without removing the choice for traditional controls. So there's no way you can argue that its a hurdle for devs.

 

[bgassassin]

Impressed in a technical stance or impressed in a "oh God, they won't stop bleeding money" stance?

The former. If lherre was harping on what I think he was, I can understand the benefit to someone like him as a developer.

 

[AzaK]

Honest question: what is it about selling at a profit/not selling at a loss that is inherently something for a company to be "proud" of? What does that mean for anyone but them?

keeps stockholders happy, in theory.

Great theory, shit in practice. It's not just about profits, but about perceived value of the company. Profit, where it's heading, buzz etc.

Nintendo had mass profits off the Wii but look at their price, once it stopped being the "next big thing" it plummeted (Yes I know there was a market slump in there too). As people started perceiving it as a has been, investors seems to get a little worried and move their money elsewhere.

Nintendo have done nothing to alleviate this concern with investors (Look at the shares lately), except spout rhetoric. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo had have come out and show cased the graphics (With no spec change) we'd have had a different reaction. Investors would know that competitors are coming out next year and Nintendo haven't sold them on the GamePad and Nintendo's ability to get a mass market hit like Wii.

 

[Ryoku]

The former. If lherre was harping on what I think he was, I can understand the benefit to someone like him as a developer.

Tell us what you know!

 

[gamergirly]

You'd be surprised how many publishers were totally pissed Wii games were not $60.

Nintendo eventually lifted whatever price prohibitions they had for regular games, but refused to raise their own prices. Thus third parties were stuck because their $60 games still had to compete with $50 Nintendo software.

But all indications are that $60 will be the price for Wii U games across the board and $40 is the new budget line.

Come on Nintendo. Anyway we can stay $50 or below plz?

 

[AniHawk]

Come on Nintendo. Anyway we can stay $50 or below plz?

just wait for a few weeks on the few multiplats you want for 2013 until new consoles hit and then buy the nintendo games in 2014 when the machine and games are sold on clearance.

 

[Lyude77]

You'd be surprised how many publishers were totally pissed Wii games were not $60.

Nintendo eventually lifted whatever price prohibitions they had for regular games, but refused to raise their own prices. Thus third parties were stuck because their $60 games still had to compete with $50 Nintendo software.

But all indications are that $60 will be the price for Wii U games across the board and $40 is the new budget line.

Shoot. I wish third parties would get over it and price their games at $60 if they think they're worth it and not worry about Nintendo, unless they are Rayman or Darksiders or something where it is literally a competition.

The only two $60 games I got this generation were Catherine and Skyrim. I really should have waited on Catherine, though. Oh well. I've gotten 10+ $50 games, though, so it really makes a difference.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Come on Nintendo. Anyway we can stay $50 or below plz?

If it's EA: Wait two weeks

If it's anyone else: Wait two months

The only weird exception to this I've been having is Asura's Wrath because why the fuck is that game still $60

 

[Redford]

Then why is SMG2 still $59.99? *cries*

Spoiler

I want to play it so bad, but my Scottish blood...

 

[bgassassin]

Tell us what you know!

Compared to PS4, "better" CPU, more memory, and possibly "worse" GPU. IGN's poll had devs saying Xbox 3 is the easiest to develop for right now. I would say that is because of more memory and that Xbox 3 may not be as reliant on GPGPU functions as the other two consoles. Because of the latter it's not the same level of deviation from the current gen so to me they aren't face with reinventing the wheel as much compare to the other two consoles. But that begs the question. What if the two consoles that are "more similar" sell better?

 

[Donnie]

Tell us what you know!

1.5tflop GPU, 6 core Jaguar CPU, 4GB+ DDR3 RAM?

Just having a guess based on what's going around

Edit: So it seems the 4GB may only be referring to the dev kit and it may be a lot less in the retail unit? Much like WiiU dev kits have 3GB of RAM with 2GB or less expected in retail systems. Seems doubtful if its coming out in 2014.

Edit2: If Xbox3 has 8GB of RAM I'll wonder the streets naked. Not happening

 

[ShockingAlberto]

bg, what have you heard about RAM?

I was told devkits hover around the 3-4GB area with warnings that it could be cut by as much as half.

Edit: For the XBox 3, I mean.

 

[bgassassin]

bg, what have you heard about RAM?

I was told devkits hover around the 3-4GB area with warnings that it could be cut by as much as half.

Edit: For the XBox 3, I mean.

Higher, much higher. Like making you ask the question "why".

EDIT: Meh, it's been talked about on B3D so 12GB in the dev kit is what I've heard with a target of 8GB.

 

[schuelma]

bg, what have you heard about RAM?

I was told devkits hover around the 3-4GB area with warnings that it could be cut by as much as half.

Edit: For the XBox 3, I mean.

Wouldn't that be in Wii U's range? (if it is cut by half)

 

[Azure J]

Higher, much higher. Like making you ask the question "why".

Is it weird that I'm simultaneously WTFing and kinda looking forward to games made with that in mind?

EDIT: 12GB with a target of 8? JESUS. CHRIST.

 

[Diablos54]

Higher, much higher. Like making you ask the question "why".

EDIT: Meh, it's been talked about on B3D so 12GB in the dev kit is what I've heard with a target of 8GB.

Fuck me... How much is this beast going to cost!?

And no way Sony could keep up with that, I wonder if there's a chance that the PS4 will be closer to the Wii U than the Durango specs wise?

 

[Redford]

Higher, much higher. Like making you ask the question "why".

EDIT: Meh, it's been talked about on B3D so 12GB in the dev kit is what I've heard with a target of 8GB.

 

[Ryoku]

Higher, much higher. Like making you ask the question "why".

EDIT: Meh, it's been talked about on B3D so 12GB in the dev kit is what I've heard with a target of 8GB.

Welp. I'm going to go play on my PC in order to recuperate from the notion that Microsoft might be targeting 8GB RAM for their next console.

Also, I do ask "why?". 8GB RAM with a GPU that's weaker than an underclocked Pitcairn GPU? Even on the PC front, GPUs with 3GB RAM are pushing it (the need for that much memory, I mean).

 

[VariantX]

Welp, that sounds like something I can't afford to buy any time soon. Maybe in 2017...

 

[snesfreak]

8GB?
Are they getting it from Newegg?

 

[BY2K]

So Microsoft listened to Crytek...

 

[bgassassin]

Fuck me... How much is this beast going to cost!?

And no way Sony could keep up with that, I wonder if there's a chance that the PS4 will be closer to the Wii U than the Durango specs wise?

See my other post. The GPU is looking like it will be weaker than PS4's GPU.

The question is will this be 8GB of DDR3 with a large eDRAM framebuffer, or will it be more like a PC with a split pool of DDR3 and GDDR5. But I need to learn more as this system doesn't sound balanced in a "modern" way. It comes off to me as an opportunity for devs to release poorly optimized games like you see on PC.

 

[Glorified G]

Higher, much higher. Like making you ask the question "why".

EDIT: Meh, it's been talked about on B3D so 12GB in the dev kit is what I've heard with a target of 8GB.

Make PGR5 a launch title. And make it look amazing!

 

[Azure J]

See my other post. The GPU is looking like it will be weaker than PS4's GPU.

The question is will this be 8GB of DDR3 with a large eDRAM framebuffer, or will it be more like a PC with a split pool of DDR3 and GDDR5. But I need to learn more as this system doesn't sound balanced in a "modern" way. It comes off to me as an opportunity for devs to release poorly optimized games.

Yikes.

 

[Diablos54]

See my other post. The GPU is looking like it will be weaker than PS4's GPU.

The question is will this be 8GB of DDR3 with a large eDRAM framebuffer, or will it be more like a PC with a split pool of DDR3 and GDDR5. But I need to learn more as this system doesn't sound balanced in a "modern" way. It comes off to me as an opportunity for devs to release poorly optimized games.

Hmm, I wonder how much RAM the PS4 will have, my guess would be about 3-4GB. So now the big question is how large is the gap between the PS4 GPU and the Wii U GPU. The Wii U's GPU's pretty capable right so the gap between the two shouldn't be that big? Next gen's going to be interesting.

And I do not like the sound of the bolded. If anything they should be aiming for the opposite...

Edit: Like on PC? Having not done too much PC gaming I don't know how bad that would be.

 

[bgassassin]

Yikes.

Beat my edit.

Hmm, I wonder how much RAM the PS4 will have, my guess would be about 3-4GB. So now the big question is how large is the gap between the PS4 GPU and the Wii U GPU. The Wii U's GPU's pretty capable right so the gap between the two shouldn't be that big? Next gen's going to be interesting.

Sony is currently targeting 2GB of GDDR5.

And based strictly on GFLOPs, PS4's GPU is 2.25x-3.75x Wii U's based on the most likely range it will fall in.

 

[Ryoku]

See my other post. The GPU is looking like it will be weaker than PS4's GPU.

The question is will this be 8GB of DDR3 with a large eDRAM framebuffer, or will it be more like a PC with a split pool of DDR3 and GDDR5. But I need to learn more as this system doesn't sound balanced in a "modern" way. It comes off to me as an opportunity for devs to release poorly optimized games.

Hmm..... 8GB DDR3? In a console? Why the f...? I was thinking for a second that you were referring to a unified pool, but now you mentioned that it was DDR3. Yeah..... Why?

 

[Glorified G]

Hmm, I wonder how much RAM the PS4 will have, my guess would be about 3-4GB. So now the big question is how large is the gap between the PS4 GPU and the Wii U GPU. The Wii U's GPU's pretty capable right so the gap between the two shouldn't be that big? Next gen's going to be interesting.

And I do not like the sound of the bolded. If anything they should be aiming for the opposite...

Edit: Like on PC? Having not done too much PC gaming I don't know how bad that would be.

ps4 is rumored to have the best gpu at 1.8tflops. If these rumored specs come true, it's going to be a very weird generation

 

[bgassassin]

Hmm..... 8GB DDR3? In a console? Why the f...? I was thinking for a second that you were referring to a unified pool, but now you mentioned that it was DDR3. Yeah..... Why?

It's the only way you can get that much in there without breaking the bank.

ps4 is rumored to have the best gpu at 1.8tflops. If these rumored specs come true, it's going to be a very weird generation

Yep. And I was expecting a more "conventional" gen coming up hardware-wise.

 

[Donnie]

See my other post. The GPU is looking like it will be weaker than PS4's GPU.

The question is will this be 8GB of DDR3 with a large eDRAM framebuffer, or will it be more like a PC with a split pool of DDR3 and GDDR5. But I need to learn more as this system doesn't sound balanced in a "modern" way. It comes off to me as an opportunity for devs to release poorly optimized games like you see on PC.

Windows console with Windows 8 running in the background at all times and 2GB of RAM reserved?..

 

[Azure J]

Yep. And I was expecting a more "conventional" gen coming up hardware-wise.

Same here. Remember the good old days of 3.0GHz Quad Core PowerPC CPUs, 2GB GDDR5, "some" EDRAM, and GPUs with every modern feature and 800 - 1200SPUs/10 - 14CUs?

To think, all because people want to be reassured with numbers, they're going to go batshit insane farther than this, even though the former would be like an atom bomb to the two pistols and bow and arrow competing in the console gen at current.

 

[Diablos54]

Sony is currently targeting 2GB of GDDR5.

And based strictly on GFLOPs, PS4's GPU is 2.25x-3.75x Wii U's based on the most likely range it will fall in.

Only 2GB? I can see that being a big bottleneck. Multi ports even between Sony/MS's next gen systems seems like it's going to be tricky.

And based on that, I feel that the Wii U's GPU should been a little stronger if they wanted to make sure of multi plats next gen. But hey, what do I know?

 

[bgassassin]

Windows console with Windows 8 running in the background at all times and 2GB of RAM reserved..

Haha. Maybe Kinect might be playing a small part in this well as some have suggested.

But I still want to make sure this thing really will have 8GB, though I trust the person I got it from.

 

[AzaK]

See my other post. The GPU is looking like it will be weaker than PS4's GPU.

The question is will this be 8GB of DDR3 with a large eDRAM framebuffer, or will it be more like a PC with a split pool of DDR3 and GDDR5. But I need to learn more as this system doesn't sound balanced in a "modern" way. It comes off to me as an opportunity for devs to release poorly optimized games like you see on PC.

Windows console with Windows 8 running in the background at all times and 2GB of RAM reserved?..

I was wondering about this too. Essentially make it a PC in a box, running Windows 8 in some form and then they can develop for essentially one platform.

 

[Azure J]

Only 2GB? I can see that being a big bottleneck. Multi ports even between Sony/MS's next gen systems seems like it's going to be tricky.

And based on that, I feel that the Wii U's GPU should been a little stronger if they wanted to make sure of multi plats next gen. But hey, what do I know?

I feel like if Sony goes with this 2GB route, they'd be trying to either box out Microsoft as the odd man out while getting all port buddy with Wii U (it'll still be better than Wii U, no one think of this as me trying to make something that isn't there). The issue with this is western devs who are down with Xbox brand no matter what and Sony's own goals with the PS4. Of course, their financials speaks one message, but they still have their own plans to follow accordingly.

 

[bgassassin]

*see second post*

 

[bgassassin]

Same here. Remember the good old days of 3.0GHz Quad Core PowerPC CPUs, 2GB GDDR5, "some" EDRAM, and GPUs with every modern feature and 800 - 1200SPUs/10 - 14CUs?

To think, all because people want to be reassured with numbers, they're going to go batshit insane farther than this, even though the former would be like an atom bomb to the two pistols and bow and arrow competing in the console gen at current.

It's insane IMO to have that amount of memory for that possible GPU like Ryoku mentioned. It doesn't sound balanced.

Only 2GB? I can see that being a big bottleneck. Multi ports even between Sony/MS's next gen systems seems like it's going to be tricky.

And based on that, I feel that the Wii U's GPU should been a little stronger if they wanted to make sure of multi plats next gen. But hey, what do I know?

4GB is possible if GDDR5 densities increase. Sony seems to be focused on keeping a unified pool of memory. And for what Nintendo seems to be going for that will be fine. Early indications seem to suggest Wii U and PS4 will be "very" similar with PS4 having more raw power. It will be like the question I posed in response to Ryoku.

 

[Diablos54]

I feel like if Sony goes with this 2GB route, they'd be trying to either box out Microsoft as the odd man out while getting all port buddy with Wii U (it'll still be better than Wii U, no one think of this as me trying to make something that isn't there). The issue with this is western devs who are down with Xbox brand no matter what and Sony's own goals with the PS4. Of course, their financials speaks one message, but they still have their own plans to follow accordingly.

Yea, I agree that Sony might be trying to box MS out, since they most likely see them as their most dangerous competition. This could end up as East vs. West, with the East behind the Wii U/PS4, while the West support the Durango. It would be very interesting to see if something like that happened. I also think it would leave Sony in a bad place, far behind MS in the West and behind Nintendo in the East.

4GB is possible if GDDR5 densities increase. Sony seems to be focused on keeping a unified pool of memory. And for what Nintendo seems to be going for that will be fine. Early indications seem to suggest Wii U and PS4 will be "very" similar with PS4 having more raw power. It will be like the question I posed in response to Ryoku.

Hmm. Well that reassuring, as long as the Wii U could get downports from the other two I'll be happy.

 

[Anth0ny]

Higher, much higher. Like making you ask the question "why".

EDIT: Meh, it's been talked about on B3D so 12GB in the dev kit is what I've heard with a target of 8GB.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I really do not want to see 400 - 600 dollar consoles again. 300 - 350 is my upper limit for how much I'll spend on a console. I'm so fucking sick of these 10 year console ideas, give me a modest 300 dollar console every 5 years please.

 

[Ryoku]

I'm getting the vibe that Microsoft's next console won't just be your typical game console at all. It'll be something very similar to a PC. I feel like it's an extremely likely scenario that there will be a version of Windows 8 running as the OS that will hog up quite a bit of RAM (~2GB?). I do hope they balance that out with a decent amount of VRAM. I would have expected 2GB or so VRAM with 4GB of RAM for general purposes, but 8? Jeez.

Regarding the GPUs, Bgassassin mentioned in the PS4 thread that it will have a GPU akin to an underclocked Pitcairn GPU, right? Considering that may be 2x-3.75x more powerful than Wii U's GPU, I think we are looking at something like a 4850 vs 7850 or 4830 vs 7850 (with similar features and functions, of course). And assuming the Xbox3's GPU will be slightly weaker than PS4's GPU..... This generation will be closer than I thought--aside from RAM amounts, of course.

EDIT: Ignore that last paragraph. I didn't pay attention to the "strictly GFLOPs" that Bgassassin mentioned.

Also, why are we comparing GPUs with GFLOPs? D:
For those of you wondering, I'll give an example. a 7850 has 1.75 times FLOP rating compared to a 4850, yet a 7850 is clearly more than 1.75x as powerful as a 4850. A 4850 has 2x the FLOP rating as a 9800GT, yet a 4850 is nowhere near 2x as powerful as a 9800GT.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

8GB RAM!? That's what my PC has and it's fuckin' behemoth. I don't mean that as a brag, either

 

[Touch]

As long as I don't have to squint at the television to see what I'm doing or read something, I'm fine with whatever the power level ends up being.

 

[Penguin]

Will MS inherit the console dominance hubris that has befallen Nintendo and Sony without ever actually being first?

 

[Diablos54]

Will MS inherit the console dominance hubris that has befallen Nintendo and Sony without ever actually being first?

3rd Console Curse!

 

[Captain Smoker]

3rd Console Curse!

+ Japan

 

[Azure J]

I really do not want to see 400 - 600 dollar consoles again. 300 - 350 is my upper limit for how much I'll spend on a console. I'm so fucking sick of these 10 year console ideas, give me a modest 300 dollar console every 5 years please.

Thisthisthisthisthisssss! Especially regarding time frames.

When did we get so accustomed to 10 year plans anyway?

 

[Touch]

Thisthisthisthisthisssss! Especially regarding time frames.

When did we get so accustomed to 10 year plans anyway?

What console besides PS2 has even accomplished the ten year plan?