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[MDX]

Nintendo vs Microsoft Round 3:

Most assume that this new gen of consoles will be similar to the GCN/Xbox/PS2 era.

lets take a look at the Xbox vs GCN (and Dreamcast):

CPU - MIPS
DC (360 MIPS) vs GC (1125 MIPS) vs Xbox (1985 MIPS)

Pixel Fill Rate - MPixels/sec
DC (100 MP/s) vs GC (648 MP/s) vs Xbox (932 MP/s)

Texel Fill Rate - MTexels/sec
DC (100 MT/s) vs GC (648 MT/s) vs Xbox (1864 MT/s)

Rendering Bandwidth - GigaBytes/sec
DC (0.8 GB/s) vs GC (2.2 GB/s) vs Xbox (5.6 GB/s)

Total Memory - MegaBytes
DC (26 MB) vs GC (43 MB) vs Xbox (64 MB)

Texture Space (Compressed Textures) - MegaBytes
DC (5 MB:30 MB) vs GC (12 MB:72 MB) vs Xbox (45 MB:270 MB)
Uncompressed: Compressed

It looks like the GC cannot beat the Xbox in a single area, as even the polygon rate and the disk capacity, which I did not show, are also much bigger than the GC. All can be a bit misleading, as the GC has plenty of polygon throughput and fill-rate to have games that have rich detailed environments. Well at least GC has the advantage of price, since it will be $199 US versus Xbox's $299 US price.

On paper, Xbox outclassed the Gamecube in practically all areas.
Except: On-chip Z-Buffer 1 MB, 1T-SRAM, Separate Sound Buffer 16 MB
256 KB CPU cache.

Considering these numbers, how many cross platform Xbox games outclassed the Gamecube, and how many exclusive titles did?

When looking at the GC design, Im curious where Nintendo actually put their R&D in regards to WiiU performance.


http://www.segatech.com/technical/consolecompare2/index.html

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Give this man a raise, because that's the best hope Nintendo has of stealing thunder back from Microsoft should they unveil a new console this E3 as well. Pikmin 3 is only going to serve to get me and every other Nintendo fan wet. If Nintendo wants new blood they need new IP. It's that simple.

No. While it'd be nice its not necessary for success.

 

[base shagohod]

Give this man a raise, because that's the best hope Nintendo has of stealing thunder back from Microsoft should they unveil a new console this E3 as well. Pikmin 3 is only going to serve to get me and every other Nintendo fan wet. If Nintendo wants new blood they need new IP. It's that simple.

Maybe I'm in the minority.. I consider myself a pretty big Nintendo fan, but I've never played a Pikmin game before, so Pikmin 3 wouldn't mean anything at all to me.
New IP's are always exciting though, and I agree that a new IP announcement would garner interest in people who aren't too into Nintendo games.

edit:

No. While it'd be nice its not necessary for success.

Definitely not necessary.

 

[Jackano]

Smash has "started" somehow since Kid Icarus is finished, a few days ago.
I think it's possible to see a trailer: There is plenty of time (5 months) to build a trailer, but of course, it will not mean this will be actually built around work on the real game. Just like the Zelda demo, they can show a video but no actual gameplay. It will serve hype, but nothing more.

But personally, I think it will not be the case and we'll see nothing at all until GDC 2013.
I also hope Nintendo have plenty of other things to show, and not being forced to count on SmaBro so soon (unlike Kid Icarus).

 

[Father_Brain]

eh? first I've heard of this..

From the financial results briefing last April:

Next, regarding the subject of overseas, there was an era in the past, which was until the time of PlayStation 2, when games made in Japan sold well all over the world. However, I think that, over the past three or four years, the presence of Japanese software developers has become relatively small. Nintendo is doing what overseas software developers do not do, so Nintendo's software is selling relatively well also in foreign countries, but for the software oriented to enthusiastic game players, such as "Call of Duty," the ones created by overseas developers are more mainstream in the overseas markets. In addition, because the expressions in games are becoming more and more photo-realistic, I imagine that the cultural differences in acceptance have started to be reflected more clearly. I think this is the reason why western users tend to prefer software created overseas than software from Japanese software developers.<

Of course, Nintendo will continue to run a business by creating Nintendo-like games, but we will not be able to meet the various tastes of consumers by only doing this, so I feel that it will become necessary to reinforce the development resources in the foreign countries. Therefore, I hope we will be able to show you something like that at E3.

 

[DCKing]

Alright, but they could have passed the note to other 1st party studios without having the world learn about it.

Sakurai also stated that development hadn't started yet quite recently

I was going to express my hope that HAL had secretly started on it until I remembered Sakurai saying that. Sakurai would definitely know even if HAL started without his supervision.

 

[Gravijah]

i remember reading that nintendo were very conservative with their theoretical gamecube tech calculation numbers. am i remembering wrong?

 

[royalan]

No. While it'd be nice its not necessary for success.

Wii Sports.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

So I'm wrong (when it comes to performance)?

1st gen: Magnavox Odyssey
2nd gen: ColecoVision
3rd gen: Sega Master System
4th gen: Neo-Geo AES
5th gen: Nintendo 64
6th gen: XBox
7th gen: PS3

Late to this discussion, but it's important to remember that the Famicom came out on the same day as Sega's earlier console, the SG-1000. Then Sega had two years to make the Master System more powerful than the NES.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Sakurai also stated that development hadn't started yet quite recently

I was going to express my hope that HAL had secretly started on it until I remembered Sakurai saying that. Sakurai would definitely know even if HAL started without his supervision.

I REALLY want HAL to have a much bigger hand in 4 than in Brawl, because Kirby Wii felt much more like Melee than Brawl. I didn't lkike the direction they went with Brawl, and I'm worried that 4 will just be more like Brawl because HAL seemingly again will take a backseat in the development process.

Do we even know who is at Project Sora from which companies? I remember hearing that Brawl members of sorts are there, but since Brawl had a clusterfuck of companies involved (hence why it feels off), we don't know what Project Sora really is.

And Kid Icarus has virtually the same look that I hated in Brawl. That#s a bad sign. You can see in Kirby and Melee all the charm and bright colors it had, in Brawl and KIU, not so much...

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Whatever the differences between theoretical and real-world output between GCN and Xbox, I doubt there will be such differences now. It's not the case anymore where we have some companies working on unique hardware designed only for them versus others using almost-unchanged PC goods--everything is now much more similar and from the same few companies. Their targets may be very different, but it seems unlikely to have a situation where the ATI and IBM chips one company ends up with are significantly less efficient than the ATI and IBM chips another gets.

 

[TunaLover]

i remember reading that nintendo were very conservative with their theoretical gamecube tech calculation numbers. am i remembering wrong?

You are right, Nintendo performance numbers were all in-game, MS/Sony drop raw performance numbers, not considering in-game enviorement.

 

[DCKing]

Whatever the differences between theoretical and real-world output between GCN and Xbox, I doubt there will be such differences now. It's not the case anymore where we have some companies working on unique hardware designed only for them versus others using almost-unchanged PC goods--everything is now much more similar and from the same few companies. Their targets may be very different, but it seems unlikely to have a situation where the ATI and IBM chips one company ends up with are significantly less efficient than the ATI and IBM chips another gets.

This. It's a very likely scenario that the Wii U and next Xbox will have the exact same CPU architecture, same GPU architecture (or close enough) and the same CPU+GPU+unified memory+EDRAM-on-GPU system architecture.

Honestly that's only a good thing because it would make porting much easier for developers.

 

[Aizu_Itsuko]

Claiming ps3 has the graphics leadership this gen is, erm, dubious, to say the least. A fan of sony?

Yeah, this gen is kind of weird when it comes to this (and many other things).

So far PS3 seems to have the faster hardware as a whole but since it actually has a weaker GPU overall you need to take advantage of the CPU to get that extra juice. And since most games are multiplatform, PS3 isn't usually the lead platform and you can get results more easily on the 360 the result is pretty much a wash.

I guess Sony was counting on being the default system just like they were during the PS2 era. Still they could have made better decisions. You can bet they have taken all this into account as far as PS4 goes so no more "599USD!" stuff (I hope).

 

[[Nintex]]

Darksiders II is now pinned for a summer release. THQ kinda gave the impression at last E3 that the game would launch alongside the Wii U so it seems like June/July is back on the cards again.

 

[Door2Dawn]

No way Wii U is releasing in June/July. Absolutely no way.

 

[bgassassin]

You are right, Nintendo performance numbers were all in-game, MS/Sony drop raw performance numbers, not considering in-game enviorement.

Good times. Nintendo low-balling made that even better.

Darksiders II is now pinned for a summer release. THQ kinda gave the impression at last E3 that the game would launch alongside the Wii U so it seems like June/July is back on the cards again.

They never left the cards. ^_^

<--- *wouldn't let July leave anyway*

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Wii Sports.

That was more of a demo of what to expect from the Wii that they included in with the Wii. Nobody had to actually buy Wii Sports. The success of the demo itself helped Wii Sports Resort sell millions, yes. When people think about Nintendo first party games, you'll be hard pressed to find folks including Wii Sports with Mario, Zelda, Metroid. Just saying.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Darksiders II is now pinned for a summer release. THQ kinda gave the impression at last E3 that the game would launch alongside the Wii U so it seems like June/July is back on the cards again.

Why? In reality it means absolutely nothing, that's just wild speculation.

 

[luffeN]

Why? In reality it means absolutely nothing, that's just wild speculation.

Sure it is speculation, but they did not need much time to port it over to Wii U. So I think it is possible that the Wii U version could be ready for summer.

 

[wrowa]

Darksiders II is now pinned for a summer release. THQ kinda gave the impression at last E3 that the game would launch alongside the Wii U so it seems like June/July is back on the cards again.

I don't see how that matters. Even if Darksiders II was planned to be released alongside the Wii U last year, it doesn't mean that this is still the case now. If the original plan was to release the Wii U in the summer, while Nintendo now postponed the release to the fall, then why would THQ change their release schedule? A fall release wouldn't be a very good time to release a not-quite-AAA game.

 

[Father_Brain]

No way Wii U is releasing in June/July. Absolutely no way.

Not unless it's being re-unveiled in March or April, with E3 being saved mainly for announcements of post-launch software. If this is happening - which it probably isn't - it should be hinted at the Nintendo results briefing.

bgassassin, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that for now.

 

[Gravijah]

they're going to unveil the wii u at e3 2011

 

[Hot Coldman]

No way Wii U is releasing in June/July. Absolutely no way.

Reggie: "I hope your bodies are ready, because Wii U (now called the Nintendo Nintendo) is releasing TOMORROW!"

 

[snesfreak]

Late to this discussion, but it's important to remember that the Famicom came out on the same day as Sega's earlier console, the SG-1000. Then Sega had two years to make the Master System more powerful than the NES.

Irrelevant!
Nintendo should have foreseen that Sega would make a more powerful system 2 years later and beat them to it!

 

[royalan]

That was more of a demo of what to expect from the Wii that they included in with the Wii. Nobody had to actually buy Wii Sports. The success of the demo itself helped Wii Sports Resort sell millions, yes. When people think about Nintendo first party games, you'll be hard pressed to find folks including Wii Sports with Mario, Zelda, Metroid. Just saying.

And I agree with you. But technically Wii Sports was a new IP that received a big marketing push as part of the Wii's launch, and it was undeniably as much responsible for the Wii's massive early success as motion controls. It wasn't Mario Kart (and definitely not Smash Bros.) that got the Wii all that mainstream media attention in its early years.

Nintendo was going after a different market, with a brand new experience, and they were brilliant enough to realize that they would need a brand new IP to do it (because lets face it, they could have easily packed in a Mario game). Lets hope they're that clairvoyant a second time, because once again they're going after a different market (non-nintendo gamers), with a brand new experience, and I really think it's going to take a brand new IP to make gamers take a second look.

And I hope to Based God that's what Retro's working on...instead of all this Star Fox nonsense going on in that thread...

 

[bgassassin]

Not unless it's being re-unveiled in March or April, with E3 being saved mainly for announcements of post-launch software. If this is happening - which it probably isn't - it should be hinted at the Nintendo results briefing.

bgassassin, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that for now.

I thought we already did that?

But that said, who says they'd have to do the whole re-unveil then? They could just as easily only give launch details at GDC and save the rest for E3. There are a few ways they could go about launching in July. Our previous discussion was just another approach.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

And I agree with you. But technically Wii Sports was a new IP that received a big marketing push as part of the Wii's launch, and it was undeniably as much responsible for the Wii's massive early success as motion controls. It wasn't Mario Kart (and definitely not Smash Bros.) that got the Wii all that mainstream media attention in its early years.

Nintendo was going after a different market, with a brand new experience, and they were brilliant enough to realize that they would need a brand new IP to do it (because lets face it, they could have easily packed in a Mario game). Lets hope they're that clairvoyant a second time, because once again they're going after a different market (non-nintendo gamers), with a brand new experience, and I really think it's going to take a brand new IP to make gamers take a second look.

And I hope to Based God that's what Retro's working on...instead of all this Star Fox nonsense going on in that thread...

In terms of getting the Wii U to hit the floor running like the Wii, I don't know if that will be possible this go around simply due to the price factor. Firstly, the price factor will make it much more difficult for the Wii U to be the instant craze that the Wii was. Secondly, the state of the economy is quite different than it was in 2006. Finally, the Wii U, while we're quite excited for it, doesn't do anything new that millions of other people have experienced with the iPad in a sense. The wow factor won't be as prevalent as it was with the Wii.

Nintendo should be aiming for a much longer tail this go around in terms of software sales and while a new IP would be fantastic, I'm not sure its required for the system to be successful.

 

[[Nintex]]

I'm mostly warming up to the idea of the july launch again because Nintendo has crammed all the Wii releases for all regions in the first 4 months of the year. There's nothing for Wii after april 2012 even the Ubisoft releases have dried up: http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/releases

 

[botty]

I'm mostly warming up to the idea of the july launch again because Nintendo has crammed all the Wii releases for all regions in the first 4 months of the year. There's nothing for Wii after april 2012 even the Ubisoft releases have dried up: http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/releases

Are you doubting the arrival of the Wii's next big hit, Just Dance 4?

 

[Plinko]

No way Wii U is releasing in June/July. Absolutely no way.

I don't see why not. E3 is in early June. Late July would give it a month and a half of hype. That's plenty in today's age.

 

[woo and indeed hoo]

And the day before Thursday...
I never could get the hang of Thursdays.

Oddly enough, your creator was in my dream last night, Arthur.

I know! I was surprised too!

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

People assume that they need to hit the broad market right away but that's simply not true. The people who buy the console on launch (for the most part), are the 'core' market who already know about it and pre-order it and all that. So it lets Nintendo get it out to them earlier, while building a solid foundation and some kind of momentum leading into the holidays.

The ONLY reason I have some doubt about July is because I'm not sure how far along actual games are for the console.

 

[Error Macro]

I don't see why not. E3 is in early June. Late July would give it a month and a half of hype. That's plenty in today's age.

That's probably even too much time for hype in today's age. Shoot, after a couple of weeks people's interest begins to wane. Thanks, Internet!

The sooner after E3 they can launch, the better.

 

[DefectiveReject]

Wii U release in LATE July and Wii price drop with immediate effect to $70/£60

 

[[Nintex]]

Wii U release in LATE July and Wii price drop with immediate effect to $70/£60

I would say price drop when Mario Party hits to flush the channels.

 

[bgassassin]

I'm mostly warming up to the idea of the july launch again because Nintendo has crammed all the Wii releases for all regions in the first 4 months of the year. There's nothing for Wii after april 2012 even the Ubisoft releases have dried up: http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/releases

Good point. Plus as I've said before they are going to want to maximize their window between them and the other two consoles. I don't see them giving Nintendo more than a year on the market with Wii U being the top dog power-wise.

 

[JJConrad]

And I agree with you. But technically Wii Sports was a new IP that received a big marketing push as part of the Wii's launch, and it was undeniably as much responsible for the Wii's massive early success as motion controls. It wasn't Mario Kart (and definitely not Smash Bros.) that got the Wii all that mainstream media attention in its early years.

Nintendo was going after a different market, with a brand new experience, and they were brilliant enough to realize that they would need a brand new IP to do it (because lets face it, they could have easily packed in a Mario game). Lets hope they're that clairvoyant a second time, because once again they're going after a different market (non-nintendo gamers), with a brand new experience, and I really think it's going to take a brand new IP to make gamers take a second look.

And I hope to Based God that's what Retro's working on...instead of all this Star Fox nonsense going on in that thread...

This is why you're so often wrong.

You make it sound like Nintendo is trying to out dudebro the Xbox with their new console. I know this was a common thought process pre-E3, but I don't know how it survives today. Was it WiiU Sports, WiiU Fit, Chase & Battle Mii, or NSMBMii that taught you that they were targeting a different market? Nintendo is first going after their existing market... the one that's much larger than either of their competitors. From there, they're not trying win over the "gamer" market, they're trying reach parity in that market. The Wii's userbase with just 20% of the competitor's bases would very close to the domination the PS2 had.

Besides, if they were to target either competitor's base, it would be Sony's. Microsoft is a non-factor in Japan, and Sony is a very vulnerable in the US. The best way to knock Sony off is not with new IP's, but to take their 3rd party franchises... much like they're already doing with the 3DS.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I thought we already did that?

But that said, who says they'd have to do the whole re-unveil then? They could just as easily only give launch details at GDC and save the rest for E3. There are a few ways they could go about launching in July. Our previous discussion was just another approach.

You're starting to get me to come around to the possibility of a July launch. If anything, it would be a perfect time to capitalize on the summer lul. If enough software is ready, they should go ahead and do it, I say.

I was reading through some old investor q&as last night, which talked about the "bitter lesson" Nintendo has learned from the 3DS launch. Iwata seemed to be taking the stance that there was supposed to be more software from Nintendo earlier on, but that it was delayed, and Nintendo had no backup plan.

I'm thinking this delayed system-seller was none other than Kid Icarus, which was unveiled alongside the system and seemed to be somewhat far along at E3 2010. What the hell happened that the game has still not launched? I believe Iwata may be taking the blame for his boy, Sakurai, who is notorious for taking his sweet-ass time these days.

That being said, if Nintendo launches w/ a killer app or two (NSMBMii, Wii U Sports) in that launch window, they can completely take advantage of the summer lul. They could even hold onto NSMB until September or so and use that to maintain momentum and combat mindshare from big games like Halo 4 and whatever else Sony/MS have prepared for the fall/winter. In the meantime, games like Killer Freaks and Darksiders 2 launching alongside the system would have some time in the sun, but not enough so that if they aren't big hits, Nintendo aren't screwed.

 

[The Main Event]

Darksiders II is now pinned for a summer release. THQ kinda gave the impression at last E3 that the game would launch alongside the Wii U so it seems like June/July is back on the cards again.

Summer ends in September...

 

[radcliff]

I beleive Nintendo would want the system out when Madden NFL 13 hits. They are probably going to want to portray the Wii U version of Madden as the definitive version. However, sales of that game are usually front loaded. Nintendo would have a hard time convincing the millions who bought Madden in August for X360 or PS3 on day 1 to buy another version simply for tablet support. Madden Wii U will bomb if it is not available at the same time as the PS3/X360 versions. You know what that would mean... Madden All-Play for the rest of the Wii U's life.

 

[[Nintex]]

I beleive Nintendo would want the system out when Madden NFL 13 hits. They are probably going to want to portray the Wii U version of Madden as the definitive version. However, sales of that game are usually front loaded. Nintendo would have a hard time convincing the millions who bought Madden in August for X360 or PS3 on day 1 to buy another version simply for tablet support. Madden Wii U will bomb if it is not available at the same time as the PS3/X360 versions. You know what that would mean... Madden All-Play for the rest of the Wii U's life.

I'm willing to bet that Darksiders II, Ninja Gaiden 3 and perhaps even Arkham City and Killer Freaks would all bomb going up against the scheduled fall releases. If the Wii U is coming this fall they might as well cancel all those because you can't sell them anymore when Assassins Creed and Call of Duty are out there. The only way for those games and 'late ports' to have a fighting chance is if Nintendo launched early(June/July).

 

[Shalashaska161]

Here's something new for you guys to drool over, a new Nintendo patent! What could it be? What the Wii U remote could have been? A new Gameboy? Oh my! The description is for "The ornamental design for a wireless transmitter/receiver, as shown and described." so we can go from there. Couple images from the site:

Source: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...=Nintendo.ASNM.&OS=AN/Nintendo&RS=AN/Nintendo

There are more images on the site, but you need to be able to view .tiff files to see the images, so here's a link to a Firefox extension that allows you to do so if you so desire: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/aspator/?src=search. Also Safari apparently works as well if you have it installed.

Also all the credit for the find goes to Rösti over in the GAF Steam chat, he just asked me to post it since he's still waiting for his account to be approved.

 

[Plinko]

Here's something new for you guys to drool over, a new Nintendo patent! What could it be? What the Wii U remote could have been? A new Gameboy? Oh my! The description is for "The ornamental design for a wireless transmitter/receiver, as shown and described." so we can go from there. Couple images from the site:

Source: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...=Nintendo.ASNM.&OS=AN/Nintendo&RS=AN/Nintendo

There are more images on the site, but you need to be able to view .tiff files to see the images, so here's a link to a Firefox extension that allows you to do so if you so desire: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/aspator/?src=search. Also Safari apparently works as well if you have it installed.

Also all the credit for the find goes to Rösti over in the GAF Steam chat, he just asked me to post it since he's still waiting for his account to be approved.

Looks like a different version of the DS.

 

[darthdago]

Why? In reality it means absolutely nothing, that's just wild speculation.

And?
This thread is called: Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

So July would be more than possible at least in NA hope here in Europe we get it latest beginning of August!!

 

[Anth0ny]

We will get a teaser of Smash 4 at E3.

Didn't you hear? Kid Icarus went gold a couple of days ago. Development of Smash has already begun! They have 5 months to make a trailer!

 

[Bullza2o]

Rear touchpad?

A 2nd small screen is just asking for scratches.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

That was more of a demo of what to expect from the Wii that they included in with the Wii. Nobody had to actually buy Wii Sports. The success of the demo itself helped Wii Sports Resort sell millions, yes. When people think about Nintendo first party games, you'll be hard pressed to find folks including Wii Sports with Mario, Zelda, Metroid. Just saying.

They had to buy it separately in Japan. For the first year or so it was selling to about half as many as were buying hardware, and to date only NSMB Wii has surpassed it. Mario Kart Wii still has a shot, though.

Wii U release in LATE July and Wii price drop with immediate effect to $70/£60

From $150 immediately to $70? Cheaper than PlayStation 2? Riiiight.

 

[JJConrad]

I beleive Nintendo would want the system out when Madden NFL 13 hits. They are probably going to want to portray the Wii U version of Madden as the definitive version. However, sales of that game are usually front loaded. Nintendo would have a hard time convincing the millions who bought Madden in August for X360 or PS3 on day 1 to buy another version simply for tablet support. Madden Wii U will bomb if it is not available at the same time as the PS3/X360 versions. You know what that would mean... Madden All-Play for the rest of the Wii U's life.

The first versions of a Madden on a new console always bomb, relatively. Madden '07 sold about the same on the Wii and PS3, but one system was treated as normal and the other got sacked. EA's commitment to the system will be more important than what the first, or even second, Madden game sells.

 

[Shiggy]

Woah, that one is really old. Was published by the European OAMI last March, it's said to be a wireless receiver/router.

http://oami.europa.eu//bulletin/rcd/2011/2011_059/001259204_0001.htm