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[BurntPork]

Come on. That's a horrible comparison.

Sorry, I just love doing that.

 

[Vinci]

Come on. That's a horrible comparison.

Create a product that people value, price it properly, and people will buy it? That's all Apple is doing right now. And that's what Nintendo did with the Wii.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

My Guess:

$299
1 WiiPad
1 Wii Remote +
1 Nunchuk
Wii U Play: Chase Mii, Battle Mii, etc. More Play than Sports.

This. Maybe $249.

Also, those games, plus any other will be build into the system memory. They won't be packaged on a disc.

 

[Vinci]

This. Maybe $249.

Also, those games, plus any other will be build into the system memory. They won't be packaged on a disc.

I think if they had packaged a cart of the AR titles for the 3DS in the package with a nice sticker that says, "Nintendo Augmented Reality Game Compilation Included!" the system might sell slightly better. Having it on a disc helps with 'perceived value' even if it sounds silly.

 

[Sadist]

I think if they had packaged a cart of the AR titles for the 3DS in the package with a nice sticker that says, "Nintendo Augmented Reality Game Compilation Included!" the system might sell slightly better. Having it on a disc helps with 'perceived value' even if it sounds silly.

It sounds like Nintendo. In other words, this will happen

 

[maeda]

Is anyone really discussing 150$ 3DS pricepoint as being "valid" FOR Nintendo when they were selling DSIs for 170$? With much success, I have to add. Let's not get ridiculous. They clearly overpriced 3DS, but pricing it ar anything below 200$ would be unreasonable for the company.

 

[BurntPork]

I think if they had packaged a cart of the AR titles for the 3DS in the package with a nice sticker that says, "Nintendo Augmented Reality Game Compilation Included!" the system might sell slightly better. Having it on a disc helps with 'perceived value' even if it sounds silly.

It's true. Nintendo really should have advertised the AR games on the package. I've felt that since I first saw the packaging. I hope that Nintendo has learned that lesson too and carries that over to the Wii U.

And Grampa, there's no chance it'll be $250.

 

[beast786]

I can not believe you guys believe it will be 249-299?

No way in hell.

 

[Vinci]

I can not believe you guys believe it will be 249-250?

No way in hell.

It'll be either $299 or $349. Of that I'm relatively certain. They won't do another 3DS. Even if the 3DS ends up doing well for them in the long term, they're not unaware of the general perception that it's 'bombing.'

 

[KrawlMan]

It'll be either $299 or $349. Of that I'm relatively certain. They won't do another 3DS. Even if the 3DS ends up doing well for them in the long term, they're not unaware of the general perception that it's 'bombing.'

This. Nintendo has already stated that it won't hit at the same price as the Wii did. This won't be a $250 console.

 

[beast786]

It'll be either $299 or $349. Of that I'm relatively certain. They won't do another 3DS. Even if the 3DS ends up doing well for them in the long term, they're not unaware of the general perception that it's 'bombing.'

For a brand new home console , I have a hard time seeing it below 350$. Especially, how Nintendo likes to make money up front on its product.

 

[Krowley]

I think they'll try to hit 299. I think the slower start on the 3DS will make them shy about going all the way to 350.

 

[Mr_Brit]

I think they'll try to hit 299. I think the slower start on the 3DS will make them shy about going all the way to 350.

I doubt it. Nintendo have said that they think an immature online service and lack of games were a bigger causes of 3DS not doing as well as expected not that the price was too high.

 

[Vinci]

For a brand new home console , I have a hard time seeing it below 350$. Especially, how Nintendo likes to make money up front on its product.

They like to make money, but they like to sell systems too. $349 is the highest I can imagine Nintendo marketing a console at and expecting any sort of mainstream traction whatsoever. They cannot depend on 3rd parties or the 'hardcore' jumping onboard, so they have to give themselves every opportunity to sell to the mainstream.

Also: They've sold consoles at a slight loss before.

I doubt it. Nintendo have said that they think an immature online service and lack of games were a bigger causes of 3DS not doing as well as expected not that the price was too high.

Well, it's not like they're going to outright say, "Yeah, we priced the damn thing too high."

 

[Hiltz]

Ya, I really do not want to go back to dual analog for first-person shooters. Hopefully, third-parties will support alternative control options the way they have done with the Wii. It may not be convenient for them, but it would be much appreciated by gamers.

I think Nintendo is too cheap to want to include a Wii remote plus and nunchuck controller. While the Classic controller pro may prove to be superior to the Wii U's dual analog control scheme, Nintendo would deem it unnecessary to bundle it with the system.

There's a lot of Wii owners so Nintendo probably thinks it should be fine not to have to include Wii controllers with the system. It just has to keep selling the controllers separately at retail.

 

[StevieP]

Ya, I really do not want to go back to dual analog for first-person shooters. Hopefully, third-parties

See: Move.
(Read: If WM+ is not in the box, IR is dead)

 

[Vinci]

See: Move.
(Read: If WM+ is not in the box, IR is dead)

Basically. Nintendo has to provide the WiiPad and a Wii Remote + or it will lessen the amount of devs utilize both in games.

 

[Maximilian E.]

For a brand new home console , I have a hard time seeing it below 350$. Especially, how Nintendo likes to make money up front on its product.

Nintendo more or less has to be under 300 in order to compete with the others and attract more 3rd party support.

Remember, PS360 will have a devastating much higher userbase and both these consoles will dictate the software, meaning that.. WiiU will not be a lead console for development for 3rd parties, but will get ports of the PS360 versions..

I anyways think it will be the same procedure as always, WiiU will be sold to Nintendo afficionados, people who like the NIntendo games and for those experiences but it will never have the same 3rd party support as MS and Sony has...

 

[Krowley]

I doubt it. Nintendo have said that they think an immature online service and lack of games were a bigger causes of 3DS not doing as well as expected not that the price was too high.

Whatever they say publicly, they know internally that price is one of the primary causes.

 

[beast786]

Nintendo more or less has to be under 300 in order to compete with the others and attract more 3rd party support.

Remember, PS360 will have a devastating much higher userbase and both these consoles will dictate the software, meaning that.. WiiU will not be a lead console for development for 3rd parties, but will get ports of the PS360 versions..

I anyways think it will be the same procedure as always, WiiU will be sold to Nintendo afficionados, people who like the NIntendo games and for those experiences but it will never have the same 3rd party support as MS and Sony has...

If they will be under 300 bucks. I will be on it day 1.

I understand your reasoning. And it makes sense. But, I just have a hard time seeing it below 350.

 

[StevieP]

Basically. Nintendo has to provide the WiiPad and a Wii Remote + or it will lessen the amount of devs utilize both in games.

I have like 9 WiiRemote+ between my parents' house and mine, so it would be a waste to me. But I recognize that if a WM+ and nunchuck isn't there, first person games will be dual-analog. Hell, with the UPad being the focus even if they're in the box, devs may just do what they've always been headstrong about in mandating an inferior control scheme for that game type just to use the Upad. Ugh.

it will never have the same 3rd party support as MS and Sony has...

That's a bad assumption to make, in my opinion. The third party exclusive is all but dead thanks to the ridiculous increase in dev costs that's happened in the past half decade or so. The Wii U will be in between the 360/PS3 and 720/PS4 in spec, and it has modern architecture, so it will probably get more or less the same support. Next gen, first parties will be even more of a differentiator than they were this gen.

 

[Vinci]

I have like 9 WiiRemote+ between my parents' house and mine, so it would be a waste to me. But I recognize that if a WM+ and nunchuck isn't there, first person games will be dual-analog. Hell, with the UPad being the focus even if they're in the box, devs may just do what they've always been headstrong about in mandating an inferior control scheme for that game type just to use the Upad. Ugh.

That's not my biggest reason for including a Wii Remote+ and Nunchuk. It's actually because they have made it a point that the asymmetrical nature of playing with a WiiPad and WM+ is compelling. To not include what's necessary to deliver on that would be foolish, IMO.

 

[Hiltz]

Wii U costing $300 would be excellent but after thinking about it for some time, I'm going back to believing it will be $350.

 

[michaeltraps]

I think they'll try to hit 299. I think the slower start on the 3DS will make them shy about going all the way to 350.

I agree with this post 100%. I think

Spoiler

hope

the lukewarm launch of the 3DS and the perception that it's overpriced might make them a bit more reserved with pricing of Wii U.

Not sure if they'll include the Wii-mote however. I can see just the WiiPad, Wii U and compilation disc in the box.

 

[Oppo]

Yeah i think Vinci's guess is pretty good. It has to be $300 or $350. And I have to think they are aiming for $300. Remember it won't be out for a while so you can't use today's component prices, not that that is everything but all of this tech will be that much cheaper in a year. I think you could very conceivably do 1 WM+, 1 chuck + 1 uMote with the console for $300.

Actually it would be pretty smart of them to offer some sort of cheaper "upgrade" package (console + uMote, no pack-in games) for players who have a bunch of Wiimotes already, not sure if that would cause confusion or not but would be a nice option.

 

[Mr_Brit]

For people saying they'll launch at $250-300: What kind of profit margins do you think Nintendo will expect at launch? Personally I think they'll want around $100 per console and for that I can't see them launching below $300 and most likely will launch at $350.

That controller probably costs around $40-50 and will take up a large chunk of the production budget so Nintendo will have to cut down on the specs and/or increase price.

 

[Plinko]

For people saying they'll launch at $250-300: What kind of profit margins do you think Nintendo will expect at launch? Personally I think they'll want around $100 per console and for that I can't see them launching below $300 and most likely will launch at $350.

That controller probably costs around $40-50 and will take up a large chunk of the production budget so Nintendo will have to cut down on the specs and/or increase price.

You mean to make or what they'll charge for it? If they're saying cost is an issue with the controllers and it wasn't when a Wiimote and nunchuk were $60, that controller's gotta be pushing $100.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

did any of the u games on-display at e3 use the nunchuk?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

It's true. Nintendo really should have advertised the AR games on the package. I've felt that since I first saw the packaging. I hope that Nintendo has learned that lesson too and carries that over to the Wii U.

And Grampa, there's no chance it'll be $250.

I will ridicule you endlessly if it is.

 

[Mr_Brit]

You mean to make or what they'll charge for it? If they're saying cost is an issue with the controllers and it wasn't when a Wiimote and nunchuk were $60, that controller's gotta be pushing $100.

I meant to make. I can't see any reason it would cost $100 to make when it uses a generic resistive single touch ~400p touchscreen. Aside from that the rest of the components should be pretty cheap with the wireless HDMI(or whatever technology they're using) receiver probably being the only exception.

Remember that controllers are sold for ridiculous profit margins so a $50 controller would need to be sold at at least $100 to be worthwhile for Nintendo and retailers.

 

[KrawlMan]

For people saying they'll launch at $250-300: What kind of profit margins do you think Nintendo will expect at launch? Personally I think they'll want around $100 per console and for that I can't see them launching below $300 and most likely will launch at $350.

That controller probably costs around $40-50 and will take up a large chunk of the production budget so Nintendo will have to cut down on the specs and/or increase price.

I don't see this happening. This console doesn't have the buzz behind it that the Wii did, and they will likely price it with that in mind. If they are trying to get the hardcore market back in any way, they have to know that they can't price their console well above the competition, especially if it's not packing some serious heat in the visuals department. I'm not saying $350 would be a bad price, but it better damn well not be getting them $100 profit on each one.

By the time this thing is out PS3 is going to be at least as low as $250 and the $100 difference between the two better not just be a controller screen.

 

[Gummb]

My honest guess:

$399.99
1. Wii U Console: $249.99 VALUE
2. WiiPad: $79.99 value
3. Wii-mote + nunchuck: $39.99 value
4. Built-in software: $49.99 Value
5. Nintendo's benevolence: -$19.97

OR:

$349.99
1. Wii U Console: $249.99 VALUE
2. WiiPad: $79.99 value
4. Built-in software: $49.99 Value
5. Nintendo's benevolence: -$29.98

And here is why they will really sell it at that price:
1. Pikmin 3 at launch
2. Exclusive Killer Freaks FPS at launch
3. Exclusive Lego Cities at launch
4. Dragon Quest X at launch
5. Ninja Gaiden: Razor's Edge at launch
6. Ghost Recon: Online at launch
7. A shit storm of enhanced AAA ports.

 

[Vinci]

I seriously doubt Nintendo will be able to sell this thing at $100 profit. They're hitting up against a point where their aspirations have to match 3rd parties' while at the same time not removing themselves from mainstream acceptance. Given what they're trying to do with this system, I wouldn't be surprised to see Nintendo sell it at cost or near to at launch.

 

[plagiarize]

That's not my biggest reason for including a Wii Remote+ and Nunchuk. It's actually because they have made it a point that the asymmetrical nature of playing with a WiiPad and WM+ is compelling. To not include what's necessary to deliver on that would be foolish, IMO.

people thought they were foolish not to include more than one Wii Remote with the Wii, if you recall. the argument was, because the focus was on local multiplayer that they should have sold it with 2 or 4 wii remotes.

we know how that turned out.

i don't see this situation as being different. to play the Wii U in local multiplayer you will need to buy Wii Remotes same as with the Wii. the games that support local multiplayer will have to support Wii remotes.

the wii didn't have any trouble getting lots of local multiplayer games despite only shipping with one controller.

remember, as far as we know, the only option for player 2 is either a wii remote with a classic controller on it, or a wii remote being used as a wii remote.

adding a wii remote and a nunchuck to the package is going to push the price up higher for something that not everyone is going to want. i really can't see Nintendo doing that.

 

[Mr_Brit]

I seriously doubt Nintendo will be able to sell this thing at $100 profit. They're hitting up against a point where their aspirations have to match 3rd parties' while at the same time not removing themselves from mainstream acceptance. Given what they're trying to do with this system, I wouldn't be surprised to see Nintendo sell it at cost or near to at launch.

If they were to sell this at cost from launch then we'd most likely be looking at something like a $230 console which would be simply ridiculous. At that price they'd most likely be supply limited for a long time just like with the Wii.

 

[plagiarize]

I don't see this happening. This console doesn't have the buzz behind it that the Wii did, and they will likely price it with that in mind. If they are trying to get the hardcore market back in any way, they have to know that they can't price their console well above the competition, especially if it's not packing some serious heat in the visuals department. I'm not saying $350 would be a bad price, but it better damn well not be getting them $100 profit on each one.

By the time this thing is out PS3 is going to be at least as low as $250 and the $100 difference between the two better not just be a controller screen.

the Wii didn't have buzz behind it this far out from release. don't forget that. it didn't start building it's buzz until the E3 before it launched.

does anyone really think we're going to see this thing in six months? there's no way.

 

[brochiller]

I seriously doubt Nintendo will be able to sell this thing at $100 profit. They're hitting up against a point where their aspirations have to match 3rd parties' while at the same time not removing themselves from mainstream acceptance. Given what they're trying to do with this system, I wouldn't be surprised to see Nintendo sell it at cost or near to at launch.

For them to make $100 per console at launch at a reasonable price point, they would have to make the console severely underpowered once again. We all saw what happens when they do that.

Nintendo needs to realize that making a ton of profit per system at launch may not be the most profitable business model, as this will lead to a shorter shelf life and lesser third party support as evidenced with the Wii.

 

[Mr_Brit]

For them to make $100 per console at launch at a reasonable price point, they would have to make the console severely underpowered once again. We all saw what happens when they do that.

Nintendo needs to realize that making a ton of profit per system at launch may not be the most profitable business model, as this will lead to a shorter shelf life and lesser third party support as evidenced with the Wii.

No it wouldn't. Nintendo could comfortably make a $230 system that annihilates the PS3 and 360.

I don't get where people get the idea that you need to make a $300 system to beat 360 and PS3.

 

[Vinci]

If they were to sell this at cost from launch then we'd most likely be looking at something like a $230 console which would be simply ridiculous. At that price they'd most likely be supply limited for a long time just like with the Wii.

That's the thing: I have no idea what everything in the Wii U costs. What I'm saying is that I believe Nintendo is going to prioritize mass adoption of this system more than per unit profit. Why? Because they need to create a userbase as quickly as possible in order to provide incentive for 3rd parties to continue working with them. It needs 3rd party software to sell. For that, they need as many people jumping in as early as possible.

Whatever the components cost, they'll be relatively conservative with their profit margin if it will allow them to hit $299.

 

[plagiarize]

For them to make $100 per console at launch at a reasonable price point, they would have to make the console severely underpowered once again. We all saw what happens when they do that.

Nintendo needs to realize that making a ton of profit per system at launch may not be the most profitable business model, as this will lead to a shorter shelf life and lesser third party support as evidenced with the Wii.

i don't think that's evidenced with the Wii at all.

the thing was sold out for two years being sold with a ton of profit per system. it's sales have dwindled because software support has dwindled, and that hasn't happened because it was sold for a profit.

 

[Gummb]

I seriously doubt Nintendo will be able to sell this thing at $100 profit. They're hitting up against a point where their aspirations have to match 3rd parties' while at the same time not removing themselves from mainstream acceptance. Given what they're trying to do with this system, I wouldn't be surprised to see Nintendo sell it at cost or near to at launch.

What do you mean "mainstream" acceptance? If you mean the casual market/parents, I think you're wrong on this point. Iwata has stated (and I agree) that the people buying the Wii U next year are going to be different than the people who will be buying the Wii next year. Nintendo's Wii still has life in it, and I don't think the average mother is ready to move on.

If, however, you mean the mainstream "bro-gamer," you may be right, and Nintendo may sell this thing at $349.99. My mind will be in a paralysis for days if this thing is $299.99, and I will be the first to reserve one. Hell... i'll buy it for $399.99 (don't read this Nintendo).

 

[Vinci]

What do you mean "mainstream" acceptance? If you mean the casual market/parents, I think you're wrong on this point. Iwata has stated (and I agree) that the people buying the Wii U next year are going to be different than the people who will be buying the Wii next year. Nintendo's Wii still has life in it, and I don't think the average mother is ready to move on.

And I think Iwata is full of it on that point. The Wii does not have life in it. It's dying fast. Their stock dropped when the Wii U was revealed. If they price it too high, outside of any mainstream (ie. casual market) potential, their stock will dive far more. They need to make it clear that they plan to be aggressive and highly competitive. A reasonable price will do that.

If, however, you mean the mainstream "bro-gamer," you may be right, and Nintendo may sell this thing at $349.99. My mind will be in a paralysis for days if this thing is $299.99, and I will be the first to reserve one. Hell... i'll buy it for $399.99 (don't read this Nintendo).

Nintendo wants these guys too and they want them fast. $299 just decreases any barriers between that audience getting it also.

 

[brochiller]

No it wouldn't. Nintendo could comfortably make a $230 system that annihilates the PS3 and 360.

I don't get where people get the idea that you need to make a $300 system to beat 360 and PS3.

I'm not just saying something to beat the 360/PS3, I'm saying something that will be powerful enough to last 5 years and more down the road, once the other successor systems come out. Plus, you have to take the cost of the uPad and anything else they put into the box when you're talking about how much it will cost in the end. And I was talking about $100 profit per system as well, which I do think is pretty unreasonable taking all that into account.

i don't think that's evidenced with the Wii at all.

the thing was sold out for two years being sold with a ton of profit per system. it's sales have dwindled because software support has dwindled, and that hasn't happened because it was sold out for two years.

That's what I'm saying. Nintendo needs to make sure this system is powerful enough to have good software support over its lifetime so it doesn't have another situation like they have with the Wii. Right now it's gathering dust on the shelves of its owners and not selling as well in stores.

All I'm saying is I think that by sacrificing a little profit in the beginning, they could more than make up for it down the road.

 

[Mr_Brit]

And I think Iwata is full of it on that point. The Wii does not have life in it. It's dying fast. Their stock dropped when the Wii U was revealed. If they price it too high, outside of any mainstream (ie. casual market) potential, their stock will dive far more. They need to make it clear that they plan to be aggressive and highly competitive. A reasonable price will do that.



Nintendo wants these guys too and they want them fast. $299 just decreases any barriers between that audience getting it also.

I'm getting the feeling that they're going for more of the hardcore audience this time around, at least initially. I think they're expecting casual gamers to stick with the Wii for two more years so that they can grab the volatile hardcore intially and when the price has dropped they can go after the casuals again. The only problem is that Wii is already dead and from Iwata and Reggie's comments it doesn't seem like they recognise that.

I'm not just saying something to beat the 360/PS3, I'm saying something that will be powerful enough to last 5 years and more down the road, once the other successor systems come out. Plus, you have to take the cost of the uPad and anything else they put into the box when you're talking about how much it will cost in the end. And I was talking about $100 profit per system as well, which I do think is pretty unreasonable taking all that into account.

The controller won't cost more than $50 to make and I strongly doubt they'll put anything into the box.

 

[KrawlMan]

I'm getting the feeling that they're going for more of the hardcore audience this time around, at least initially. I think they're expecting casual gamers to stick with the Wii for two more years so that they can grab the volatile hardcore intially and when the price has dropped they can go after the casuals again. The only problem is that Wii is already dead and from Iwata and Reggie's comments it doesn't seem like they recognise that.

Except instead of calling them hardcore gamers, Nintendo has just been using the term "early adopters" .

 

[Vinci]

I'm getting the feeling that they're going for more of the hardcore audience this time around, at least initially. I think they're expecting casual gamers to stick with the Wii for two more years so that they can grab the volatile hardcore intially and when the price has dropped they can go after the casuals again. The only problem is that Wii is already dead and from Iwata and Reggie's comments it doesn't seem like they recognise that.

Well yes, but again, this is a situation in which it doesn't benefit either Iwata or Reggie to say, "The Wii is doomed." It's clear from how the stock responded that investors believe it's doomed whether they're saying it or not.

 

[Gummb]

And I think Iwata is full of it on that point. The Wii does not have life in it. It's dying fast. Their stock dropped when the Wii U was revealed. If they price it too high, outside of any mainstream (ie. casual market) potential, their stock will dive far more. They need to make it clear that they plan to be aggressive and highly competitive. A reasonable price will do that.

First of all, the Wii still has one more price drop, and perhaps another bundle left in its life. Pack a black Wii with Zelda and a golden Wii-mote, and you have kids, teens, and adults getting one for xmas. Then, release the Wii U at $349.99 (take what I said above and take out the wii-mote. I agree, I don't think it will be included). A month later, drop the Wii to $99.99. Keep it there, and it will still sell well for a year.

The Wii is not done. There is still software to be sold, and hardware to push.

Nintendo wants these guys too and they want them fast. $299 just decreases any barriers between that audience getting it also.

If Nintendo pushes the idea that the WiiU truly has value beyond a normal console, the price won't matter as much as I think you think it does. Yes, price matters, but getting a Wii U with the best console version of [insert game here] or Pikmin 3 for $400 is not that far off from saying the same for $350.

 

[guek]

This is a wild opinion, but I think nintendo might go for a dual pronged approach and try to heavily push both the wii and the wii-u, depending on the wii-u's power. If the Wii-U is powerful enough to be the PS2 of the next generation, nintendo doesn't need to set the world on fire from day 1. I think they'll price the Wii-U at a premium price of $349-$399, cut the price of the Wii to $99, and try to market both as different ends of the gamer spectrum.

The goal would be to rack up a 10-20 million installed base before the competition launches. At that point, they'd cut the price of the Wii-U and begin pushing towards casuals with some evergreen software as they officially retire the Wii.

I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if I were right either.

 

[StevieP]

That's what I'm saying. Nintendo needs to make sure this system is powerful enough to have good software support over its lifetime so it doesn't have another situation like they have with the Wii. Right now it's gathering dust on the shelves of its owners and not selling as well in stores.

I think it's worth noting that according to the NPD figures last month, from what I remember, the Wii is still outselling the PS3 and sold nearly as much as the 360.

 

[guek]

I think it's worth noting that according to the NPD figures last month, from what I remember, the Wii is still outselling the PS3 and sold nearly as much as the 360.

People are so easy to cry doom when sales start to slip, but they forget that Wii sales in the west are trending about what 360 and PS3 were a couple years ago. Of course, Wii sales are spiraling down rather than steadily increasing, so a downward trend is worth noting.

I'm sure what concerns nintendo more than anything at this point when it comes to sales is their loss of mindshare in Japan. The Wii is doing pretty abysmally over there due to a cultural migration to handheld games and a much more competitive PS3.