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[orioto]

I don't see why Nintendo would include a Wii MotionPlus controller for Wii U. All of Nintendo's previous home consoles only came with controls for 1 player, so why would Nintendo change that for Wii U ? Secondly, since Wii U is compatible with all types of Wii controllers, it can still use the original Wii remote that's in most Wii owner households. As for Motionplus, it's been made available since June 2009 as a peripheraland as a full controller replacement for the original Wii remote since May 2010. Both controllers have been included in various hardware and software bundles with the Mario Kart Wii hardware bundle, new Wii Slim model (announced for Europe), and Skyward Sword being the most recent additions.

The problem being that if you develop a game for WiiU, you cannot use wiimote features in it... Except if you consider that only wii owners will buy a wiiu. And you can only develop multiplayer games with different controls for the first player and the others. But it's not really a problem i guess, as it wasn't that you had to play games with an horizontal remote, as it wasn't that you had to buy a gc controller, or/and a classic pad to play some games on wii, or that you have to buy an extension for the 3ds.. Nintendo created the biggest cluster fuck ever for control method. They just don't give a fuck, as long s they can play with there new ideas.

 

[ksamedi]

NES came with more than one in a couple of its SKUs.

Sadly, if Wii U doesn't come with a Wii Remote and Nunchuck, no one will support them anymore; not even Nintendo. I'm praying that Nintendo includes them so that we don't end up taking a huge step backwards.

yea, I agree...

Nintendo should definitely include atleast a Wiimotion plus. I feel like the potential is still there. I mean the first game that really shows off motion controls really well is Zelda. I think there can be more games in different genres that can use Wii motion plus in really impressive ways.

 

[Dash Kappei]

I remember when Pachter said every other year that a Wii HD was immininent.

Truly hope Nintendo puts a Wiimote+ in the box or we can say goodbye to the vastly superior pointer controls and comfy 2 hands controls (wiimote+nunchuck), no one will bother to support them.

 

[Gravijah]

I remember when Pachter said every other year that a Wii HD was immininent.

Truly hope Nintendo puts a Wiimote+ in the box or we can say goodbye to the vastly superior pointer controls and comfy 2 hands controls (wiimote+nunchuck), no one will bother to support them.

developer has a choice between wiimote controls and a more traditional dual analog style layout.

what do you think they are going to go for?

 

[guek]

So Pachter thinks that MS and Sony are willing to give the WiiU a two year head start.
And probably during those two years will promise that their new consoles will be the second coming.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/digital-trade-pach-attack/721913

Every time I see the WiiU controller, I dig it more.

Ok, so this pretty much deadlocks Sony and MS's new consoles within a year of the Wii U, if not sooner, correct? Oh that pachter, he's so good at telling us what not to believe.

 

[AzaK]

Ok, so this pretty much deadlocks Sony and MS's new consoles within a year of the Wii U, if not sooner, correct? Oh that pachter, he's so good at telling us what not to believe.

I think it's part of his cunningness. He probably knows exactly when everything's going to happen, and by producing a stream of inaccurate predictions, we actually end up being able to get a good prediction. Very shrewd planning on his part.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

It's hard to say without knowing the tech they're using... My guess, given the resolution of the WiiU tablet, would be that they system will transmit a single signal and then the controller displays its designated portion of that signal. To me, that seems like the easiest solution within the known technologies.

That was my original guess as to how it would work.

Wii U renders 2 screens.
1st 1080p screen for the TV
2nd 1080p screen 1/4'd and each 1/4 shows up on or is sent to the corresponding uMote.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

So Pachter thinks that MS and Sony are willing to give the WiiU a two year head start.
And probably during those two years will promise that their new consoles will be the second coming.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/digital-trade-pach-attack/721913

Every time I see the WiiU controller, I dig it more.

So early 2013?

 

[AzaK]

That was my original guess as to how it would work.

Wii U renders 2 screens.
1st 1080p screen for the TV
2nd 1080p screen 1/4'd and each 1/4 shows up on or is sent to the corresponding uMote.

I wish I could find the link, but when it was first announced some of the "specs" and info that were released by Nintendo mentioned something along these lines IIRC. i.e The ability to transmit "quartered" images to the controllers.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

So Pachter thinks that MS and Sony are willing to give the WiiU a two year head start.
And probably during those two years will promise that their new consoles will be the second coming.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/digital-trade-pach-attack/721913

Every time I see the WiiU controller, I dig it more.

Pachter is not some one MS or Sony should pay attention to.

 

[BurntPork]

I wish I could find the link, but when it was first announced some of the "specs" and info that were released by Nintendo mentioned something along these lines IIRC. i.e The ability to transmit "quartered" images to the controllers.

I think that was one of the fake leaks.

 

[bgassassin]

Performance. Software encoders use GPU/CPU time and memory. They could maybe do software encoding if they only intend to ever support one controller. Four is dreaming..

Wlans too big gamble because they are getting crowded. It just can't have a fail anywhere. For multiple controllers even bigger problem. They should go for higher frequency. They already said it pretty much needs line of sight which points to something similar to WirelessHD

I don't think they ever intended for these pads to be used for local multiplayer. Just multiple people using one pad. Why can't they just sell regular controllers?

LOL. This and your last post have to be the least Nintendo-related "Nintendo is doomed" posts I've seen from you ... ever. Why is it so hard for you to post like this more when you visit this thread? If you don't agree with something give reasons why like above. Drive-by trolling is annoying.

I had always told myself I was going to truly read over the patent to get a better understanding of what Wii U is doing and this controller discussion finally motivated me to do it since all I did was briefly glance at it. I should have been reading it sooner based on some of my past posts.

Anyway apparently Wii U and Upad have a hardware codec. Also the I/O processor is involved. Wsippel talked about an ARM being used (Wii had one called Starlet), and there was a rumor last year that "Wii 2" could be using a quad-core ARM, so regardless of the ARM being multi-core or not, I could see all that relieving the burden from the CPU/GPU.

Then there is also this part that I'm typing directly from the patent.

In the present example embodiment, the image data transmitted from the game device 3 to the terminal device 7 is image data used in a game, and the playability of a game can be adversely influenced if there is a delay in the images displayed in the game. Therefore, it is preferred to eliminate delay as much as possible for the transmission of image data from the game device 3 to the terminal device 7. Therefore, in the present example of embodiment, the codec LSI 27 compresses image data using a compression technique with high efficiency such as the H.264 standard, for example. Other compression techniques may be used, and image data may be transmitted uncompressed if the communication speed is sufficient. The terminal communication module 28 is, for example, a Wi-Fi certified, and may perform wireless communication at high speed with the terminal device 7 using a MIMO (Multiple Input Multiple Output) technique employed in the IEEE 802.11n standard, for example, or may use other communication schemes.

Hopefully I got everything right, but if anyone wants to read it for themselves it's the last half of [0078]. So all along the info was available showing it used 802.11n for the controller and we didn't even know it. And it can also compress the data as needed. I still have no reason to doubt Wii U can handle four controllers.



I plan on reading the patent more thoroughly later, but here are other interesting parts I came across guys.

In the present example embodiment, the touch panel 52 is a resistive-type touch panel. However, the touch panel is not limited to the resistive type, and may be a touch panel of any type including, for example, a capacitive type, etc. The touch panel 52 may be of single-touch type or a multi-touch type.

[0117] of the patent.

So the resistive vs. capacitive debate is moot because it can do both.

EDIT: Misread the context of this section.

The more I read in the patent, the more I feel like I see why they are concerned about the controller's cost.


Also between IBM saying package and the patent showing the GPU being a part of an LSI, I'm done with the SoP vs SoC debate.

And Wii U has three separate pools of memory. Internal memory, VRAM, and external memory. The first two are for the GPU and the latter for the CPU. And if I understood correctly, the flash memory can also be used in the same manner making it four.

 

[LCGeek]

Pachter is not some one MS or Sony should pay attention to.

Agreed.

MS and Sony can't afford WiiU and it's power being enough to get nintendo loyal and casual base being in to it. If the one of the crowds come it's dangerous enough for 2 years plus third parties doing some more serious work. Yet if both are there no way that either of these companies considering what Wii did will allow such a landslide to be formed in the next generation before it can really start.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Actually as WirelessHD delivers uncompressed 1080p @ 60fps it would even handle 4 480p screens with no encoding at all.

Much better image quality and latency compared to encoded streams

From Wikipedia's article on WirelessHD: "First-generation implementation achieves data rates from 4 Gbit/s". That's 128MB per second. Divide that in 60 frames per second, you end up with 2.13MB per frame. Assuming a screen resolution of 854x480, that's 1.22MB for one screen at 60fps assuming 24-bit color.

This is why most devices on the market using the WirelessHD standard only output at 720p (sometimes they make claims of "supporting 1080p", and then convert it to 720p before transmission). They also cost $80 to $250 and are rather large for something that would have to be built-into a game controller.

The WirelessHD standard *does* allow for h.264 compression to fit more in there, but h.264 compression would take a rather powerful CPU for realtime compression at 60fps.

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

The WirelessHD standard *does* allow for h.264 compression to fit more in there, but h.264 compression would take a rather powerful CPU for realtime compression at 60fps.

How Powerfu7 does it need to be

 

[Lonely1]

The WirelessHD standard *does* allow for h.264 compression to fit more in there, but h.264 compression would take a rather powerful CPU for realtime compression at 60fps.

Maybe a hardware (dedicated) encoder?

 

[BurntPork]

How Powerfu7 does it need to be

20,000 megawatts

 

[watershed]

So Pachter thinks that MS and Sony are willing to give the WiiU a two year head start.
And probably during those two years will promise that their new consoles will be the second coming.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/digital-trade-pach-attack/721913

Every time I see the WiiU controller, I dig it more.

Ugh, he's an idiot and I usually refrain from insulting anyone over the internet. But seriously at least one of those two will have a console out within 1 year of the wii u's release.

 

[Error Macro]

developer has a choice between wiimote controls and a more traditional dual analog style layout.

what do you think they are going to go for?

I would hope that with both controllers included in the box, that developers would be more likely to support both control schemes--I would hate for all first-person shooters to completely abandon the pointer, that would be horrible. I really dislike dual analog for FPSes.

 

[sfried]

Then there is also this part that I'm typing directly from the patent.

Where'd you get this printout of WiiU's patent?

 

[watershed]

I bet he's a patent lawyer and he's currently reviewing the patent applications Nintendo submitted for the wii u. Usually stuff like that isn't published until a few years after the product hits the market. Or he's talking about a patent for some tech possibly used in the wii u but not the wii u itself.

 

[AzaK]

...Hopefully I got everything right, but if anyone wants to read it for themselves it's the last half of [0078]. So all along the info was available showing it used 802.11n for the controller and we didn't even know it. And it can also compress the data as needed. I still have no reason to doubt Wii U can handle four controllers.

First, thanks for reminding me about the patent, I had totally forgot about that.

As mentioned by Dreamwriter, the assumed SD screen size of 854x480 requires bandwidth of 1.22MB per frame. A quick look at 802.11n on Wikipedia says that at most it can do 600MBits, which comes out to about 1.25MB per frame. So uncompressed it could handle 1 screen - just and I don't know if that's just theoretical and overhead would actually kill that completely. I would also doubt Nintendo would use the top of the line 802.11n to get this.

That all said, compression comes into it and but to avoid lag it needs to be able to encode, stream and decode at 60FPS One controller would probably be simple, but 4 - who knows, especially when cost will come into it.

[0117] of the patent.

So the resistive vs. capacitive debate is moot because it can do both.

CAN being the operative word, not WILL I still think they'll stay with resistive for many reasons but I don't care about that, and in fact welcome it for the accuracy for drawing and all that sort of thing which will open up another area of apps/games it could be good for.


EDIT: Here's the link to the patent PDF - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110190052.pdf

 

[bgassassin]

From Wikipedia's article on WirelessHD: "First-generation implementation achieves data rates from 4 Gbit/s". That's 128MB per second. Divide that in 60 frames per second, you end up with 2.13MB per frame. Assuming a screen resolution of 854x480, that's 1.22MB for one screen at 60fps assuming 24-bit color.

This is why most devices on the market using the WirelessHD standard only output at 720p (sometimes they make claims of "supporting 1080p", and then convert it to 720p before transmission). They also cost $80 to $250 and are rather large for something that would have to be built-into a game controller.

The WirelessHD standard *does* allow for h.264 compression to fit more in there, but h.264 compression would take a rather powerful CPU for realtime compression at 60fps.

I'm a little confused by some of your points. 4Gbits is 512MB and I don't understand how you're translating the bandwidth to the size of a frame. Looking for understanding not debating. But the patent didn't indicate WirelessHD anyway. I pointed out what seemed to be the relevant section.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

i just want the GPU to be powerful enough to handle current generation games with more AA and better framerates. the bird/garden demo goes a long way to showing that, it was beautful especially the fish and the sunset parts

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Where'd you get this printout of WiiU's patent?

Patent has been available since August (check back till the 12th). I've read it a while ago, but all that patent speak will make your brain bleed if you read too much of it. I'm sure you'll see conversation about it back towards the beginning of the thread somewhere.

What we got from it back then was that Multi-touch was a possibility, WirelessN might be being used and H.264 compression was probably in play.

edit: We also learned that the uMote had Flash Memory, a Magnetometer, an IR Port & a Mic.

edit 2:
Link to the 8/12
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=30039283&postcount=5238

 

[watershed]

EDIT: Here's the link to the patent PDF - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110190052.pdf

Wow, how did I forget about this? What super awesome information can be gleamed from this?

 

[bgassassin]

Where'd you get this printout of WiiU's patent?

Azak gave a link. I saved it awhile back, but never read it. I made two copies so I could read one and have the other on the diagrams.

First, thanks for reminding me about the patent, I had totally forgot about that.

As mentioned by Dreamwriter, the assumed SD screen size of 854x480 requires bandwidth of 1.22MB per frame. A quick look at 802.11n on Wikipedia says that at most it can do 600MBits, which comes out to about 1.25MB per frame. So uncompressed it could handle 1 screen - just and I don't know if that's just theoretical and overhead would actually kill that completely. I would also doubt Nintendo would use the top of the line 802.11n to get this.

That all said, compression comes into it and but to avoid lag it needs to be able to encode, stream and decode at 60FPS One controller would probably be simple, but 4 - who knows, especially when cost will come into it.

The problem I have with DW's example is that it seems to be working on the premise of maximum bandwidth being utilized. I doubt the actual streams would be at max. And on top of that the number was based on old (and miscalculated) numbers since it says first gen. Then from there WirelessHD is something different and not being used according to what I saw in the patent so there's really no relevance to use that to find out what they would need to target. And with it all being hardware based (and may utilize software as well, which could be dependent on the other components, not the CPU) I need to see more before I believe technology is the reason why multiple controllers won't work.

CAN being the operative word, not WILL I still think they'll stay with resistive for many reasons but I don't care about that, and in fact welcome it for the accuracy for drawing and all that sort of thing which will open up another area of apps/games it could be good for.


EDIT: Here's the link to the patent PDF - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110190052.pdf

True, but going the "can vs will" route changes the context of the original debate about what type of touch screen should be used and why I pointed it out.

 

[JJConrad]

I'm a little confused by some of your points. 4Gbits is 512MB and I don't understand how you're translating the bandwidth to the size of a frame. Looking for understanding not debating. But the patent didn't indicate WirelessHD anyway. I pointed out what seemed to be the relevant section.

Here's the rest of the paragraph from the Wikipedia article quoted by DW:

The WirelessHD specification is based on a 7 GHz channel in the 60 GHz Extremely High Frequency radio band. It allows for either compressed (H.264) or uncompressed digital transmission of high-definition video and audio and data signals, essentially making it equivalent of a wireless HDMI. First-generation implementation achieves data rates from 4 Gbit/s, but the core technology allows theoretical data rates as high as 25 Gbit/s (compared to 10.2 Gbit/s for HDMI 1.3 and 21.6 Gbit/s for DisplayPort 1.2), permitting WirelessHD to scale to higher resolutions, color depth, and range. The 1.1 version of the specification increases the maximum data rate to 28 Gbit/s, supports common 3D formats, 4K resolution, WPAN data, low-power mode for portable devices, and HDCP 2.0 content protection.

Basing arguments off of wikipedia not withstanding... the technology sounds more than capable.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Is there any memory on the actually tablet? Couldn't they just use the same tech they use for DS multiplayer?

 

[BurntPork]

First, thanks for reminding me about the patent, I had totally forgot about that.

As mentioned by Dreamwriter, the assumed SD screen size of 854x480 requires bandwidth of 1.22MB per frame. A quick look at 802.11n on Wikipedia says that at most it can do 600MBits, which comes out to about 1.25MB per frame. So uncompressed it could handle 1 screen - just and I don't know if that's just theoretical and overhead would actually kill that completely. I would also doubt Nintendo would use the top of the line 802.11n to get this.

That all said, compression comes into it and but to avoid lag it needs to be able to encode, stream and decode at 60FPS One controller would probably be simple, but 4 - who knows, especially when cost will come into it.

Then Nintendo's using technology that isn't ready for the mass-market. Don't they know why Apple's hardware usually works so well? *sigh* Now I really wish that they would hold off on this tech for another generation or two. They must be out of ideas if they have to do this...

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

Is there any memory on the actually tablet? Couldn't they just use the same tech they use for DS multiplayer?

I mentioned it above, but I can quote the patent too

Next, an internal configuration of the terminal device 7 will be described with reference to FIG. 10. FIG. 10 is a block diagram showing an internal configuration of the terminal device 7 . As shown in FIG. 10, in addition to the configuration shown in FIG. 8, the terminal device 7 includes a touch panel controller 61 , a magnetic sensor 62 , the acceleration sensor 63 , the gyrosensor 64 , a user interface controller (UI controller) 65 , a codec LSI 66 , the speaker 67 , a sound IC 68 , the microphone 69 , a wireless module 70 , an antenna 71 , an infrared communication module 72 , a flash memory 73 , a power supply IC 74 , and a battery 75 . These electronic components are mounted on an electronic circuit board (or multiple electronic circuit boards) and accommodated in the housing 50 .

p.s. the terminal device is the uMote.

 

[ElFly]

The patent says that the image goes compressed, so they don't need the 1.22 mb per frame.

 

[bgassassin]

Here's the rest of the paragraph from the Wikipedia article quoted by DW:
Basing arguments off of wikipedia not withstanding... the technology sounds more than capable.

Actually if you see my response to Azak, you'll see my issues with his post. One of which being that WirelessHD is not used according to the patent (though he didn't bring it up in the first place).

Is there any memory on the actually tablet? Couldn't they just use the same tech they use for DS multiplayer?

Yes. It has flash memory and then memory for the stream.

Wii Stream needs to make a comeback.[/tangent]

 

[TekkenMaster]

random question: has Epic said anything about whether the Wii U would be able to run Unreal Engine 4? Or would there be certain graphical techniques of UE4 that could only be accomplished on PS4/720?

If not, do you think that UE4 will be "scalable" in that games built on UE4 would show up on Wii U looking almost exactly the same save for the lack of a few advanced graphic techniques?

What about other nextgen engines such as Frostbite 2?

 

[bgassassin]

random question: has Epic said anything about whether the Wii U would be able to run Unreal Engine 4? Or would there be certain graphical techniques of UE4 that could only be accomplished on PS4/720?

If not, do you think that UE4 will be "scalable" in that games built on UE4 would show up on Wii U looking almost exactly the same save for the lack of a few advanced graphic techniques?

What about other nextgen engines such as Frostbite 2?

We don't know how well PS4 and Xbox3 will run UE4 let alone Wii U to answer that question. UE4 may very well come out after all the consoles are available. But it is suppose to have a wide scalability so we'll see.

And considering BF3 is on PS360, I don't know why Frostbite 2 would be an issue.

 

[sfried]

Patent has been available since August (check back till the 12th). I've read it a while ago, but all that patent speak will make your brain bleed if you read too much of it. I'm sure you'll see conversation about it back towards the beginning of the thread somewhere.

What we got from it back then was that Multi-touch was a possibility, WirelessN might be being used and H.264 compression was probably in play.

edit: We also learned that the uMote had Flash Memory, a Magnetometer, an IR Port & a Mic.

edit 2:
Link to the 8/12
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=30039283&postcount=5238

Thanks for jogging my memory. Although this is the first time I've heared 802.11n being used for the videofeeds.

Just what will be used for online access while the the screens display stuff? I'm pretty sure they'd want to dedicate the "uMotes" to a low latency signal with little to no crosstalk, unless they found a way to make it cheaper and more effective with regular 802.11n feeds rather than, say, something like Bluetooth.

The more a read this, the more I'm being reminded with Onlive and their compression algorithms. Wonder what encoding Nintendo's going to use to get lossless quality video within that bandwidth (since they'd want the streamed image to be just as good as on the TV fidelitywise with no compression artifacts).

 

[Mojojo]

So Pachter thinks that MS and Sony are willing to give the WiiU a two year head start.
And probably during those two years will promise that their new consoles will be the second coming.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/digital-trade-pach-attack/721913

Every time I see the WiiU controller, I dig it more.

He is right as always. Just like Pachter the guys at Sony and MS think that Wii U isn't a new console, but just Wii HD, so there is no urgency. *biggest-rolls-eyes-gif-ever.gif*

 

[Übermatik]

Bgassassin, I love your optimistic (but realistic) posts!
That patent has got me hopeful that Nintendo really are concerned about the use and price of the controller...

Side note: autocorrect initially made me say that I'm "really Gordon for Buntendo" - was tempted to leave it like that...

 

[MDX]

Actually if you see my response to Azak, you'll see my issues with his post. One of which being that WirelessHD is not used according to the patent (though he didn't bring it up in the first place).

However the patent does state:

using a MIMO (Multiple Input Multiple Output) technique employed in the IEEE 802.11n standard, for example,or may use other communication schemes.

So I read it as that Nintendo is keeping that option open. Possibly not give away the true technology being employed to its competitors.

Im curious what Codec LSI it will be using

 

[daakusedo]

I don't know what will happen to the wiimote and more exactly motionplus.
I wait for skyward sword like crazy and the way you control the game is an important part of it.
But now, what nintendo will do with the next Zelda? After moving the sword like you want and other cool moves like the bowling bombs, having to press the b button to hit will certainly feel limiting.

Plus the fps that the wii didn't have, kind of like already outnumbered by the two or three announced and the rumors of time splitters 4, I'm ready to play it this way, but maybe the wiiu controller can be cool for it with gyro...

 

[Fess]

The patent seems to be quite vague when it comes to specifics, it says may this or may that almost everywhere. Going by the patent info the Upad may have a multi touch screen, the screen may be controlled by either a stylus or fingers, and it may be possible to stream games to several Upads, and it has an expansion port which may be used to connect some antenna or communication device or whatever. I think it's better to just wait and see what we'll get, might save us from some disapointent.

 

[Deleted member 74300]

Test it? Write a review... keep it? I sure wish I was a game journalist right now.

 

[blu]

Actually as WirelessHD delivers uncompressed 1080p @ 60fps it would even handle 4 480p screens with no encoding at all.

Much better image quality and latency compared to encoded streams

I assume by 'encoding' you meant 'compression'. Encoding is something else, i.e. most communication channels have encoding. Particularly, there are no radio communication channels that do not utilise encoding - basic modulation techniques already impose encoding. Compression is a form of/part of encoding, but not all encoding does compression.

 

[specialguy]

So Pachter thinks that MS and Sony are willing to give the WiiU a two year head start.

Sure they are. The first shakycam of an incredible tech demo, the first whispers of Avatar graphics, real or lies doesn't matter, the hype will be enough and it will begin 1 year or more before actual PS4/XB720 release. Think what the PS2 did to the Dreamcast.

It's another reason I just think the Wii U will be in an untenable position... Whatever actual chronological time they have on the market as the lone "next gen" box, will be detracted before long by the PS4/720 hype mill, and I'm guessing the assault will be brutal.

We don't know how well PS4 and Xbox3 will run UE4 let alone Wii U to answer that question.

Well, there's zero chance PS4/XB720 wont run UE4 well, since that will be what it's made for.

 

[luffeN]

Test it? Write a review... keep it? I sure wish I was a game journalist right now.

Don't know if it is sarcasm on your part but if the ad is true, just go for it.

 

[AniHawk]

Sure they are. The first shakycam of an incredible tech demo, the first whispers of Avatar graphics, real or lies doesn't matter, the hype will be enough and it will begin 1 year or more before actual PS4/XB720 release. Think what the PS2 did to the Dreamcast.

It's another reason I just think the Wii U will be in an untenable position... Whatever actual chronological time they have on the market as the lone "next gen" box, will be detracted before long by the PS4/720 hype mill, and I'm guessing the assault will be brutal.

Well, there's zero chance PS4/XB720 wont run UE4 well, since that will be what it's made for.

i think microsoft and sony, and pretty much everyone else, aren't too crazy about hyper next gen graphics/features like we got last time. with microsoft, it caused systems to melt a good two years+ after launch. sony probably would have fared better if not for blu ray, but the ps3 still might've been $400 with sony taking a hit on each one sold.

the most important thing the wii did that sony and microsoft should take away, is that a somewhat modest increase isn't a bad thing. their next systems will obviously outclass nintendo's in terms of specs, but with the recent success of kinect, and the growing importance of an online infrastructure, specs aren't the most important thing anymore.

this puts microsoft in an especially good place. in 2001 and in 2005, their enemy was sony. they made the xbox so sony wouldn't take over the living room with a trojan horse set-top box. in 2012, it will still be sony, and they have the ability to beat them to the market like they did in 2005 with the 360, except this time their console will start with a dedicated xbox live fanbase, new features in kinect (probably built into the system somehow this time), and far more nongaming features than before (as per the original plan).

sony looks to be spread pretty thin on the in-house side for most of 2013. for that reason, i don't think they'll launch their new console unless they have a solid lineup and a good direction for it, which means late 2013 at the earliest. sony also seems wary of the tech war, with the vita apparently the easiest sony system to develop for in a long time. despite the vita's impressive hardware, i think it was more or less done to make it last so next gen games can transfar (?) with the vita. otherwise, it would be anchoring the handheld to a console that will be obsolete before it's three years old.

the only way i see another war like this gen is if microsoft or sony goad the other one into it. it's pretty much a war between them, and i suspect both are aware people are drawn to other things now (mainly the social aspect).

 

[BurntPork]

random question: has Epic said anything about whether the Wii U would be able to run Unreal Engine 4? Or would there be certain graphical techniques of UE4 that could only be accomplished on PS4/720?

If not, do you think that UE4 will be "scalable" in that games built on UE4 would show up on Wii U looking almost exactly the same save for the lack of a few advanced graphic techniques?

What about other nextgen engines such as Frostbite 2?

So long as Wii U is as powerful as whatever iPhone/iPad is out or about to come out at the time, it should be fine.

And PS3/360 can run FB2...

Don't know if it is sarcasm on your part but if the ad is true, just go for it.

I wouldn't. This place gets some scam ads, and some even have viruses.

 

[Fess]

I think it'll be like this.

WiiU comes first and is more focused on innovating the gameplay than increasing the performance from current gen consoles. Nintendo will have 1 or maybe 2 years head start, which will give them several million units head start on Sony and MS. There will be lots of talk in media about the controls and the importance of innovating rather than just evolving. Many gamers will complain that the graphics is barely any better than on PS3/360 and says that they will wait for Xbox720 and PS4 instead. After Nintendo releases a few huge AAA hits people will suddenly "forget" about that waiting and get one.

When Xbox720 and PS3 finally comes WiiU will already have a huge fanbase, the first price drops might've happened, all third party devs will have their key franchises on it, and WiiU will at first be the lead platform, games runs at 1080p, PS4 and Xbox720 will get ports with some barely noticabble enhancements.

At first people will be hugely dispointed in that the difference between the "true" next gen consoles and WiiU barely shows, the fanboys will talk about details in physics and particle effects and how great the games will be a few years in when the devs have learned the new systems, but in the end the WiiU titles will get better and better too and since there are no resolution differences most games will keep looking "the same" to normal people. The differences will be visable to those who care a lot about details but will only be seen as "huge" by fanboys and analysing programs, kind of like today in PS3vs360 comparisons.

Oh and WiiU will of course be the winner of the generation saleswise.

 

[BurntPork]

I think it'll be like this.

WiiU comes first and is more focused on innovating the gameplay than increasing the performance from current gen consoles. Nintendo will have 1 or maybe 2 years head start, which will give them several million units head start on Sony and MS. There will be lots of talk in media about the controls and the importance of innovating rather than just evolving. Many gamers will complain that the graphics is barely any better than on PS3/360 and says that they will wait for Xbox720 and PS4 instead. After Nintendo releases a few huge AAA hits people will suddenly "forget" about that waiting and get one.

When Xbox720 and PS3 finally comes WiiU will already have a huge fanbase, the first price drops might've happened, all third party devs will have their key franchises on it, and WiiU will at first be the lead platform, games runs at 1080p, PS4 and Xbox720 will get ports with some barely noticabble enhancements.

At first people will be hugely dispointed in that the difference between the "true" next gen consoles and WiiU barely shows, the fanboys will talk about details in physics and particle effects and how great the games will be a few years in when the devs have learned the new systems, but in the end the WiiU titles will get better and better too and since there are no resolution differences most games will keep looking "the same" to normal people. The differences will be visable to those who care a lot about details but will only be seen as "huge" by fanboys and analysing programs, kind of like today in PS3vs360 comparisons.

Oh and WiiU will of course be the winner of the generation saleswise.

That is some godly wishful thinking.

 

[-WindYoshi-]

That is some godly wishful thinking.

But it's true. I know, i've been to the future and what I saw... was beautiful.