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[Bending_Unit_22]

I still don't get how so many people got that wrong. As you mentioned we knew a new console would be shown, we saw the footage of the games that were obviously not on Wii...and yet still people thought it was a new controller ?

I understand if the average person got confused, but people that visit forums like this one ?

It's also not like the console wasn't shown. Even if you had to pay more attention than usual, why would that be a problem for gaming journalists and enthusiasts?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28397510&postcount=7021

AHAHAHAHAHA

Something throwing stones something glass houses something.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I thought the Zelda demo looked better than most current-gen 360/PS3 games. Maybe it'll the TP-style art direction.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

Man, E3 really does bring out the crazies/peoples true colors.Can't wait for the next, it should be even crazier.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I don't think it helped when journalists who knew it was a new system, followed the news, and many of which had seen it beforehand, wrote stories about how they didn't know if it was a new system or a new controller.

They saw the sizzle reel of current gen games and went "Fuck, another five years of graphics I am already used to" and everything just went to shit in their minds.

The comments from some of the press (Giant Bomb) that the PS3/360 footage looked "like 360 launch games at best" was evidence of that.

Yeah, gotta love that mindset of prejudging before more concrete information comes out.

 

[AzaK]

I thought the Zelda demo looked better than most current-gen 360/PS3 games. Maybe it'll the TP-style art direction.

While I have a PS3, I haven't experienced a vast range of super high quality games to make a call, but all I know is that from what little I saw of the Zelda HD demo, it looked absolutely beautiful. When the video came out, some people took stills of the video or looked at screenshots and tried to find blurry textures and things to "prove" the Wii U is underpowered or not much better than a P60. To me though, if alpha kit hardware with a demo quickly put together can look that good, I'm sold.

 

[AzaK]

So many awesome (and sometimes rather insane) posts in the thread for Nintendo's E3 conference. I won't link to any, but it seems some people become...a bit crazy once E3 hits. God, I don't want to imagine the insanity next E3 might bring (if MS/Sony reveal their consoles)...it will be glorious.

Especially if Nintendo are doing their big reveal/release too - the comparison threads will cause universal implosion.

 

[EatChildren]

The Zelda Wii U demo appeared to be using global illumination, though I could be wrong. If I'm right, that is largely why the demo looked so damn good. Insanely gorgeous lighting and shadows that manages to really smooth out the rough, static look you get from from many lightning engines.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The "looked like 360 games at launch" comment was Jeff during that day's E3 podcast. I can't remember exactly where.

 

[BurntPork]

The Zelda Wii U demo appeared to be using global illumination, though I could be wrong. If I'm right, that is largely why the demo looked so damn good. Insanely gorgeous lighting and shadows that manages to really smooth out the rough, static look you get from from many lightning engines.

Are PS3 and 360 capable of that?

 

[Javier]

Man, E3 really does bring out the crazies/peoples true colors.Can't wait for the next, it should be even crazier.

It's going to be GAF's first E3 with BurntPork, so expect all legit hype to be turned into gloom and doom.

 

[blu]

The Zelda Wii U demo appeared to be using global illumination, though I could be wrong. If I'm right, that is largely why the demo looked so damn good. Insanely gorgeous lighting and shadows that manages to really smooth out the rough, static look you get from from many lightning engines.

Dunno about the Zelda demo, but the Japanese garden demo definitely did.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

It's going to be GAF's first E3 with BurntPork, so expect all legit hype to be turned into gloom and doom.

Nah he'll just be a drop in a sea of crazy then, he only stands out right now because it's not e3/pre e3 leak time. Heck he may even seem sane compared to posters during e3.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

The "looked like 360 games at launch" comment was Jeff during that day's E3 podcast. I can't remember exactly where.

Writing that one bad review for Kane & Lynch was the best career move that guy ever made. He would be so much less relevant if he didn't get fired. Every time I see him I just think of the name 'Schlubby Schlubberson' and become unable to comprehend any words that come out of his mouth.

 

[EatChildren]

Are PS3 and 360 capable of that?

Theoretically, yes. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Battlefield 3 uses it. But there's nothing on the PS3/360 that approaches global illumination (assuming it was) quality of the Zelda Wii U demo.

It's a bit more complex than just "does/doesn't use global illumination", a level of technical engine knowledge I'm not versed in. But the most impressive aspect of the Zelda Wii U demo was absolutely the lighting/shadows. It was wonderful stuff.

 

[AzaK]

Dunno about the Zelda demo, but the Japanese garden demo definitely did.

Serious question, what does one look out for to see if they're using global illumination? The Zelda demo just had some mojo that I hadn't seen. Of course it was the whole machine dedicated to that one scene, so they could probably afford to sexy it up somewhat.

But the most impressive aspect of the Zelda Wii U demo was absolutely the lighting/shadows. It was wonderful stuff.

Yeah the lighting definitely sold it.

I still don't get how so many people got that wrong. As you mentioned we knew a new console would be shown, we saw the footage of the games that were obviously not on Wii...and yet still people thought it was a new controller ?

I understand if the average person got confused, but people that visit forums like this one?

I don't believe anyone really got confused, they had to be trolling.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

Yea the best thing about those demos were the lighting,imo.

 

[BurntPork]

It's going to be GAF's first E3 with BurntPork, so expect all legit hype to be turned into gloom and doom.

Unless Nintendo does such a good job that I go crazy and do backflips and super barrel rolls and then get banned for trolling trolls who want to troll but can't troll because they have nothing to troll and must now face the humiliation of being trolled.

 

[EatChildren]

Serious question, what does one look out for to see if they're using global illumination? The Zelda demo just had some mojo that I hadn't seen. Of course it was the whole machine dedicated to that one scene, so they could probably afford to sexy it up somewhat.

More accurate and natural lighting rendering. Less static and artificial looking. Usually renders approximates such as light bouncing off objects, reflecting colours, and generially illuminating the environment the way light should. The Wikipedia example is pretty good. Left is a render without global illumination, the right uses it.

As you can see, the right looks much more natural, rendering illumination of objects/walls/everything from multiple sources with greater accuracy. I'm pretty sure you can see this in the Zelda Wii U demo. Everything looks so smoothly and naturally lit.

 

[AzaK]

More accurate and natural lighting rendering. Less static and artificial looking. Usually renders approximates such as light bouncing off objects, reflecting colours, and generially illuminating the environment the way light should. The Wikipedia example is pretty good. Left is a render without global illumination, the right uses it.

As you can see, the right looks much more natural, rendering illumination of objects/walls/everything from multiple sources with greater accuracy. I'm pretty sure you can see this in the Zelda Wii U demo. Everything looks so smoothly and naturally lit.

Awesome, thanks. So rather than just rendering the usual ambient, spot, directional, point lights and some shadows, it tends to also do reflections, refraction etc.

Gonna go back and look at the Garden and Zelda demos now.

Cheers

 

[Log4Girlz]

Sigh, what I wouldn't give for some gritty looking F-Zero game.

 

[Strife91]

Sigh, what I wouldn't give for some gritty looking F-Zero game.

Wipeout HD?

 

[AceBandage]

Wipeout HD?

Think Twisted Metal meets F-Zero meets Prince of Persia 2008.

 

[Bear]

I forgot all about this thread, but it might have been better if I posted this here instead of making a new thread. I'll just quote the post here:

From every generation since the SNES, Nintendo has tried to push console/handheld connectivity in some way. They started off with simple connectivity such as big-screen display, and since then they've used it for data connectivity between and as an additional controller. They usually ended up with no support except for a handful of designed to demonstrate it. Is there any reason to believe this generation will be any different?

Well, this generation, we have:
1. The U's design philosophy
2. Compatible input

The first one is probably the most important. Nintendo's approach to the console has been about control options. They are supporting the remote (with attachments) and balance board, and the U controller itself includes almost every available method of input. In another year or two, 3DS adoption should be much higher, so why wouldn't it be used as well? Nintendo is already depending on the consumer's prior purchases with the Wii, and there will certainly be some multiplatform games between the two, which has been their most common use of connectivity so far. They could also download "companion" software to the 3DS, which is similar to Wind Waker's GBA connectivity. These are ideas that have been done in prior generations, and they have competitors who are planning to support them. I would be surprised if they were not at least considering it.

This is also the first time both devices have the same inputs and nearly identical layouts. They have never been this similar before, and the vast differences between Wii/DS and GC/GBA made it difficult to come up with any useful applications. However, the Wii U and 3DS have the same inputs with very nearly identical layouts. They both have:

- 4 face buttons
- 2 analog sliders (with 3DS add-on)
- 1 D-pad
- 4 shoulder buttons (with 3DS add-on)
- Resistive touch screen and stylus
- Front facing
- Gyroscope

So what can be done with the two when they are connected?

Controls: The 3DS can act as a scaled-down Wii U controller for secondary players, if the Wii U can only support one tablet controller.
Emulation or game streaming: The Wii U could play full or downloadable 3DS games on the big screen, similar to Sony's Remote Play
Secondary information: Similar to companion apps, things like maps or other information. I don't think this is likely since the Wii U controller already has a much better screen

Does Wii U and 3DS connectivity actually have a chance, or will it fail to gain support like every generation before this?

 

[EatChildren]

Awesome, thanks. So rather than just rendering the usual ambient, spot, directional, point lights and some shadows, it tends to also do reflections, refraction etc.

Gonna go back and look at the Garden and Zelda demos now.

Cheers

Right. There's a lot more detail to it obviously that maybe someone with more technical knowledge can give, but mostly it was that lighting engine they had going on that was most impressive of all. I'm pretty certain it was doing some great radiosity rendering with the global illumination too, which is also some pretty advanced stuff (and a major feature of Frostbite, if I'm correct). Again Wikipedia gives a good example of the difference it makes.

 

[Instro]

Sigh, what I wouldn't give for some gritty looking F-Zero game.

Gritty?

Wipeout HD?

Yeah but he wants the game to be good too.

 

[Übermatik]

The Zelda Wii U demo appeared to be using global illumination, though I could be wrong. If I'm right, that is largely why the demo looked so damn good. Insanely gorgeous lighting and shadows that manages to really smooth out the rough, static look you get from from many lightning engines.

Not cool, wrote a lengthy response and list it. Let's try again.

Yes, from what I can see, I can confidently say that the Zelda demo did implement global illumination. The reflection and refraction if light from geometry relative to the objects and lighting around them was very impressive, and too good to be passed off as rudimentary ambient occlusion.

I'd like to see how well the system handles caustic effects on this matter. The more realistically light reacts in games, the better results we achieve.

 

[LegendofJoe]

What's the thinking about when the Wii U will release? Is anyone still of the belief that Nintendo will go the 3DS route again and shoot for a spring release?

 

[AceBandage]

What's the thinking about when the Wii U will release? Is anyone still of the belief that Nintendo will go the 3DS route again and shoot for a spring release?

Spring/Summer seem likely.
I don't see why it's a problem.
It let's them build up the system for a holiday,without the shortages that come with a new system launch.

 

[LegendofJoe]

If that's the case it is pretty damn amazing that so little has been said since E3. I want details dammit, someone needs to talk.

 

[Plinko]

What's the thinking about when the Wii U will release? Is anyone still of the belief that Nintendo will go the 3DS route again and shoot for a spring release?

I think a release very soon (a couple weeks?) after E3 is very likely.

 

[AceBandage]

The only ones leaking stuff was Ubisoft, and Nintendo pretty much clamped that down at E3.

 

[Instro]

What's the thinking about when the Wii U will release? Is anyone still of the belief that Nintendo will go the 3DS route again and shoot for a spring release?

I really doubt it. I don't see it launching before E3 at the very least. I think an August launch would be pretty good, right near the end of summer. Not too long after E3, so there will be big hype carrying over, plus its not to far away from the holidays either.

Regardless, whats most important is that they don't pull a 3DS and launch too early leaving the system with missing features and lacking games.

 

[bgassassin]

I forgot all about this thread, but it might have been better if I posted this here instead of making a new thread. I'll just quote the post here:

(and a major feature of Frostbite, if I'm correct).

This reminds me that it was said to be confirmed that the final Upads will have analog triggers and that a racing game will take advantage of them.

And BF3 Wii U is expected to be at or near the PC version.

 

[Übermatik]

Right. There's a lot more detail to it obviously that maybe someone with more technical knowledge can give, but mostly it was that lighting engine they had going on that was most impressive of all. I'm pretty certain it was doing some great radiosity rendering with the global illumination too, which is also some pretty advanced stuff (and a major feature of Frostbite, if I'm correct). Again Wikipedia gives a good example of the difference it makes.

http://www.abload.de/img/radiosity_comparisonfun9.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

Effectiveness on GI depends on several variables, which cam change the outcome significantly.
Number of photons, attenuation of light, dropoff values, Photon intensity, accuracy, GI radius, Photon depth etc. All these values determine the intensity of the effect:
higher values = advanced realism, heavier on RAM, more calculations
Lower values = less realism, but less demanding, less lighting calculations

 

[[Nintex]]

What's the thinking about when the Wii U will release? Is anyone still of the belief that Nintendo will go the 3DS route again and shoot for a spring release?

In Europe easter seems to be thrown around as the target for the Wii U launch in most reports. I'm thinking may/june myself if there aren't any delays.

 

[Theonik]

It's really going to be a tough wait until E3. (or the next time we hear about WiiU)

 

[Gaborn]

If that's the case it is pretty damn amazing that so little has been said since E3. I want details dammit, someone needs to talk.

This. I still think they're making a mistake by being THIS quiet. At some point when you DO start to reveal information you're going to get information overload and new revelations won't have the impact they would if they were spaced out a bit more. Sure it'll be a gigantic nerdgasm to start, but I do worry that they're not going to keep hitting it with more and more hype and by the time the release hits some of the hype will have died rather than being at it's height.

 

[AceBandage]

This. I still think they're making a mistake by being THIS quiet. At some point when you DO start to reveal information you're going to get information overload and new revelations won't have the impact they would if they were spaced out a bit more. Sure it'll be a gigantic nerdgasm to start, but I do worry that they're not going to keep hitting it with more and more hype and by the time the release hits some of the hype will have died rather than being at it's height.

The thing is, though, it doesn't matter.
Who's going to be the ones that absorb all that information?
Us. The people that watch E3 and every little conference that company's hold throughout the year.

Know who isn't going to even know that E3 happened?
The majority of people that will buy the system.

Regardless of how they release the information, it'll all come down to two things for the system's health.

1. Marketing.

2. Lineup.

Everything else is worthless.

 

[BurntPork]

What's the thinking about when the Wii U will release? Is anyone still of the belief that Nintendo will go the 3DS route again and shoot for a spring release?

I'm thinking June or September, with the release of the 3DS revision being a factor.

This reminds me that it was said to be confirmed that the final Upads will have analog triggers and that a racing game will take advantage of them.

And BF3 Wii U is expected to be at or near the PC version.

Where did you hear this?

 

[EatChildren]

Thanks for the insight Ubermatik. I knew someone would come along with the smarts .

I don't know when the Wii U will launch nor when to expect it, because like Gaborn I believe they're being very stupid to be this quiet about it. But honestly, that is about on par for Nintendo at this point.

 

[Gaborn]

The thing is, though, it doesn't matter.
Who's going to be the ones that absorb all that information?
Us. The people that watch E3 and every little conference that company's hold throughout the year.

Know who isn't going to even know that E3 happened?
The majority of people that will buy the system.

Regardless of how they release the information, it'll all come down to two things for the system's health.

1. Marketing.

2. Lineup.

Everything else is worthless.

Sure to an extent but I think the intensity of the excitement of your core fanbase (which GAF is at least part of for Nintendo as with all systems) can significantly boost a launch. I think the Wii U will have an excellent launch, don't get me wrong and I'm eager to see the surprises they have in store for us so perhaps that colors my judgment but I remember one of the most tremendously hyped games on GAF.

EVERYBODY has to remember the Smash Bros Brawl Dojo thread. Japan time! Sure most casual fans don't care about that, but the level of hype from fans here, and I think in the gaming press (which at least to some extent informs consumers or at least informs the mainstream press who informs consumers) the hype was TREMENDOUS. daily updates with new bits of information and features? Excitement! Imagine if everything that was on the Dojo was put there all in one day. Say you'd been on a trip somewhere hiking in the wilderness with no 'net access so you couldn't see it. You come back to GAF and there's this massive thread with an epic post about all the stuff in brawl.

Does it have the same impact? That's what I'm talking about. No matter what we're going to get excited and no matter what Nintendo should do well with their system assuming the price is reasonable which it should be. But I think the way Nintendo shapes it's release of information can either lead to building excitement, or one burst of excitement that does not have the net impact that a more staggered release of information does.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Thanks for the insight Ubermatik. I knew someone would come along with the smarts .

I don't know when the Wii U will launch nor when to expect it, because like Gaborn I believe they're being very stupid to be this quiet about it. But honestly, that is about on par for Nintendo at this point.

Maybe they're being so quiet about it because they don't have a firm release date. I assume that it will come out in the latter half of 2012 rather than sooner. When is the next E3 May 2012? Six months later is November - prime shopping season. This gives them time to iron out the kinks/specs and build up inventory. It makes little sense to hype something when they clearly showed at E3 that development of software was in the early stages. I suspect that's why they pulled some of the games they were going to show. They want to wow us and can't right now. Plus it's more important for them to get publicity on 3DS right now.

 

[TunaLover]

Nintendo will make me buy a new receiver/home theater system, since they will not add an optical output.

great =/

 

[bgassassin]

I'm thinking June or September, with the release of the 3DS revision being a factor.


Where did you hear this?

Someone who is supposed to have close connections. That same one I talked about who said how soon controllers could be sold separately. I'm under the impression he knows I'm posting them here so I go ahead and do it.

Another is that there will be a decent amount (I think six) of well known FPSs that will be on Wii U within the first year or maybe launch window. I forgot exactly.

 

[AceBandage]

Someone who is supposed to have close connections. That same one I talked about who said how soon controllers could be sold separately. I'm under the impression he knows I'm posting them here so I go ahead and do it.

Another is that there will be a decent amount (I think six) of well known FPSs that will be on Wii U within the first year or maybe launch window. I forgot exactly.

Seems likely.
There's no dearth of FPS games that can be made for it.

 

[EatChildren]

Someone who is supposed to have close connections. That same one I talked about who said how soon controllers could be sold separately. I'm under the impression he knows I'm posting them here so I go ahead and do it.

Another is that there will be a decent amount (I think six) of well known FPSs that will be on Wii U within the first year or maybe launch window. I forgot exactly.

I don't really follow this thread, but did he say anything about hardware power and how the devkits are going?

 

[TunaLover]

Killer Freaks
BF3
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Ghost Recon
Metro: Last Night
?

 

[Gaborn]

Maybe they're being so quiet about it because they don't have a firm release date. I assume that it will come out in the latter half of 2012 rather than sooner. When is the next E3 May 2012? Six months later is November - prime shopping season. This gives them time to iron out the kinks/specs and build up inventory. It makes little sense to hype something when they clearly showed at E3 that development of software was in the early stages. I suspect that's why they pulled some of the games they were going to show. They want to wow us and can't right now. Plus it's more important for them to get publicity on 3DS right now.

I think they're a lot further along with Wii U plans than you seem to think. The fact that there is a HUGE drought of Wii software right now and we know that the Wii U is coming soon is not a coincidence. Remember that Nintendo formally unveiled the 3DS to Japan in January at "Nintendo World 2011." I think a similar event could be possible next year in January or February.

I do think you're right though. Because of the way the 3DS initially struggled to gain traction I think Nintendo is focusing all of it's PR oxygen on the 3DS. My guess is if it HADN'T struggled like it has been we would have heard more about the Wii U at E3 and even more than that afterwards by now. I think Nintendo is going to let the 3DS prove itself in the holiday season and try to use that momentum as a mini-bounce to upstage the Vita's launch while also unveiling the Wii U in it's more full glory. I just think by not talking about it more in the interim they're going to take a little bit away from ALL the announcements being close together.

 

[nickcv]

Maybe they're being so quiet about it because they don't have a firm release date. I assume that it will come out in the latter half of 2012 rather than sooner. When is the next E3 May 2012? Six months later is November - prime shopping season. This gives them time to iron out the kinks/specs and build up inventory. It makes little sense to hype something when they clearly showed at E3 that development of software was in the early stages. I suspect that's why they pulled some of the games they were going to show. They want to wow us and can't right now. Plus it's more important for them to get publicity on 3DS right now.

that, and i actually think that the specific specs are not totally decided yet.

on a side note: we are at page 92 now, how long can we keep going before actually needing a new thread?

 

[AceBandage]

Killer Freaks
BF3
Aliens: Colonial Marines
Ghost Recon
Metro: Last Night
?

I don't think you can count KF as well known.
One HAS to be a Call of Duty game.

that, and i actually think that the specific specs are totally decided yet.

on a side note: we are at page 92 now, how long can we keep going before actually needing a new thread?

We have 11,000 more posts to go before we need a new topic.