H_Prestige
Banned
Other poster: does Nintendo have a chance at stealing the hardcore with the next xbox coming so soon?guek said:
Me: No, because they completely abandoned those gamers this gen and are now also getting dominated by MS in NA.
Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
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Me: No, because they completely abandoned those gamers this gen and are now also getting dominated by MS in NA.
BurntPork said:
I agree, I don't think Nintendo could stand to go any cheaper with their new software.
I think the key, though, will be in leveraging their back-catalog and the eShop. They could stand to price their older games more competitively. Not every classic title release has to be an Ocarina of Time 3D affair, and Nintendo needs to stop treating their old software like new software anyway.
Hype up the Eshop, fill it with classic gameboy/DS games priced to compete with IOS/Android market, and market the hell out of it. It'll add value to their hardware while legitimizing the higher cost of new software.
H_Prestige said:
First of all, your second point is only a recent event. It's not something you would have been able to say a year ago, so don't pretend like it is. MS selling more now doesn't change the fact that the Wii has been no. 1 for the majority of this generation and, iirc, still sells more software overall than either of the other 2 platforms.
Secondly, who gives a shit? You think nintendo gives a shit whether or not they win over the hardcore gamer if they can replicate something close to the wii's success? It's been clear from day 1 that that's not their goal. They want to expand their own market to encompass hardcore gamers more than they did in the previous generation, but it's obvious that they're not looking to swing toe to toe with MS or Sony. Does nintendo have a chance at stealing the hardcore market from MS? Is that nintendo's present goal? The answer to both questions is a definite no.
Son.Ralph.Funk
Member
H_Prestige said:
A sale is a sale is a sale. This market segment nonsense is irrelevant.
guek said:
But they're going to have to steal some of the hardcore market from MS and Sony if they want to attract them at all. Face it, Nintendo really burned the hardcore gamer this gen, and now hardcore gamers are conditioned to get their fix from Sony and MS machines. If Nintendo wants in on that market again, it's going to have to compete.
Spouting on about how much the Wii sold to the casual crowd is not going to do diddly-squat to attract hardcore gamers to the Wii U. Especially since I imagine hardcore gamers are going to be a lot more wary of Nintendo's promises this time around. Regardless of how much the Wii sold, in the hardcore market they're still competing from a disadvantaged position and they're going to have to come hard from the beginning if they expect hardcore gamers to even blink in their direction.
TwilightPrincess
Member
So one person is not intrigued by WiiU and has concerns about the implementation of the controller? This is breaking news.
It´s nice from Chopper to share those statements with us, i really appreciate it. But also it does not worry me. I am fine with ports and i think some pubs will try to make good use of the controller/concept in the coming years. Still it is dumb, to be too pessimistic about a Nintendo console, people should know better after Wii selling out the competition in the first years. If they want a big slice of the profit, they have to try and invest.
WiiU underpowered? Should´t be the same problem as it was this gen. Lets wait and see
I am sold day one, Nintendo games in HD + hopefully some 3rd party support to enhance the portfolio. It´s all that i want.
It´s nice from Chopper to share those statements with us, i really appreciate it. But also it does not worry me. I am fine with ports and i think some pubs will try to make good use of the controller/concept in the coming years. Still it is dumb, to be too pessimistic about a Nintendo console, people should know better after Wii selling out the competition in the first years. If they want a big slice of the profit, they have to try and invest.
WiiU underpowered? Should´t be the same problem as it was this gen. Lets wait and see
I am sold day one, Nintendo games in HD + hopefully some 3rd party support to enhance the portfolio. It´s all that i want.
royalan said:
I think there's a big difference between talking about taking a bigger piece of the hardcore market pie and talking about winning over the whole segment entirely. I think nintendo wants to be more competitive while maintaining what's also worked for them in the past.
It being underpowered isn't news, we need to know by how much! Grill him some moreChopper said:Whilst sort of under NDA, I spoke to someone within a major games pulisher here in the UK recently who has spent plenty of time with the Wii U hardware, and they are less than impressed. As a Nintendo fan, I was disappointed to hear him say that the machine is under-powered compared to the impending competition, and no-one but Nintendo will bother investing the sufficient resources to capitalize on the second screen optimally.
Anyway, I think the bit about no one capitalizing on the second screen is reaching a bit. Unless he is talking about his own studio or perhaps only large publishers...I mean we already saw Ubisoft doing interesting stuff at E3 with Killer Freaks. I'm certainly not expecting every title to do something interesting with the screen, using it as a map or inventory is perfectly fine, I do expect some unique titles here and there though. At the very least smaller devs, and probably japanese devs, will be taking advantage of it.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
Sounds like Nintendo is doomed!!!!Louis Cyphre said:
lol Nintendo threads are always the best.
Saint Gregory
Member
These are good points but when has Nintendo ever had the "hardcore" segment of the market? That market was created by Sony with the PS1 and then further cultivated by MS the last two gens. Nintendo was has always been on the outside looking in when it came to appealing to those types of gamers (hell even the Genesis was marketed as being "edgier "than the SNES).royalan said:
I think that the best Nintendo is hoping from the U is console that can at least accomodate 3rd party ports so they aren't left in the position that they are currently as the only major publisher still releasing games for the Wii. At least it seems like it...
A single person's opinion is not really important in the grand scheme of things. What matters is the company line in terms of support they're willing to give to the platform, which depends on how they believe it will fare on the market.
I'm not entirely sure myself the WiiU's hook on the market at large is going to be comparable to the Wii, unless Nintendo comes up with a killer app and, most importantly, manages to communicate its worth through efficient marketing (apparently not as easy as with the Wiimote, this time around).
I'm not entirely sure myself the WiiU's hook on the market at large is going to be comparable to the Wii, unless Nintendo comes up with a killer app and, most importantly, manages to communicate its worth through efficient marketing (apparently not as easy as with the Wiimote, this time around).
Saint Gregory said:
That's revisionist history. Nintendo had a pretty hardcore-friendly library right up to the Gamecube. After the SNES and until the Wii, the only problem Nintendo consoles faced were quantity of titles, not quality. It wasn't until the Wii that Nintendo seemed to give up and actively move away from the hardcore segment of the market with how they marketed their hardware and software.
AceBandage
Banned
BurntPork said:
Another port of Rockstar's Table Tennis incoming!
Saint Gregory
Member
We have different definitions of "hardcore" then. When I use that term I use it to describe the new generation of gamers that started playing during Sony's initial campaign to make gaming "cool" and then continued to evolve into the type of gamers who thought Nintendo systems are for children and not mature enough for their tastes during the last two gens.royalan said:
Nintendo never had these gamers because many of them were toddlers during the SNES era.
I understand your definition but how can you argue that Nintendo hasn't catered to those same gamers that they always have when they released arguably the best entries in their franchises this gen? Because they didn't spend a 100 million dollars marketing Zelda:SS?
Saint Gregory said:
That always seemed, to me, what was behind the whole "Nintendo should make a new IP" discussion. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Kid Icarus, etc. are old and crusty, not worth anything and nobody likes them, because they are from the time when video games were for children. So Nintendo needs "new blood" which sounds like a good idea to somebody who's never seen an edgy revamp of something.
And yeah it always seems to stick in some people's craw that Nintendo doesn't plaster ads everywhere and spend oodles of cash at advertisements targeting the very people who probably know about the game already. Rather most of that money go toward making another, equally as good game, myself.
lwilliams3
Member
Chopper said:Whilst sort of under NDA, I spoke to someone within a major games pulisher here in the UK recently who has spent plenty of time with the Wii U hardware, and they are less than impressed. As a Nintendo fan, I was disappointed to hear him say that the machine is under-powered compared to the impending competition, and no-one but Nintendo will bother investing the sufficient resources to capitalize on the second screen optimally.
The disappointment about the system's problem may end up being a trend for the upcoming generation of consoles. I think that Sony and Microsoft will most likely have to make some severe sacrifices on their upcoming system for the sake of marketability, costs, and preventing heat problems.
Nintendo will have to take the first step to sell the concept to other developers, so hearing this along with the developers being disappointed goes together. Nintendo has chosen to stay quiet about the Wii U for the moment, so I guess we will just have to see if their opinion changes once Nintendo is more willing to share the big picture to everyone else.Chopper said:
Thanks for sharing the info with us.
But isn't Sony doing this very thing with Vita? The games are high in price, PSN purchases will be expensive, and the damn thing has no internal memory for social apps, games, etc. to be DLed on out of the box.Chopper said:
Sony fucked up just as much as Nintendo if not more because Sony is trying to push an iOS/Android type of PS Store on Vita.
For what it's worth a pretty high-up Ubisoft guy asked a colleague of mine what he thought about the Wii U. They said they weren't really impressed. They talked a bit about the troubles of the 3DS and the future including the Wii U and whatnot and the Ubisoft guy concluded with: "The Wii U is like one expensive Zelda game."EatChildren said:
As for the 'high up' bit, this guy would be in the part of the company responsible for the overall strategy, product and software planning. So Nintendo still has a lot of work ahead of them to convince the third party publishers.
TwilightPrincess
Member
ElTopo said:
His source didn´t say anything about not bringing games to the console. He wanted to play with more power. And with Nintendo staying quiet about their own Games, which will sell quadrillions...... if you lack the ideas or an extra buck for innovative controller- usage, you wouldn´t like it too
Next Gen will be interesting.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
You honestly expected that WiiU will be on-par with MS/Sony's upcoming hw? Well, you should've spent more time in this thread, then ; )Chopper said:Whilst sort of under NDA, I spoke to someone within a major games pulisher here in the UK recently who has spent plenty of time with the Wii U hardware, and they are less than impressed. As a Nintendo fan, I was disappointed to hear him say that the machine is under-powered compared to the impending competition, and no-one but Nintendo will bother investing the sufficient resources to capitalize on the second screen optimally.
As re 'no one will bother investing to capitalize on the second screen', every 3rd party early effort we've seen so far puts the upad to some decent use. That said, I'm sure some publishers/developers will weasel their way through the upad's TRC minimal-effort-style. Which, perhaps, is a good opportunity to ask your source about why they won't bother (because apparently your source was talking about their own plans).
Ah yes this frustrates publishers to no end because with Nintendo not saying what games they are making or launching with there's no way to figure out what you should plan for launch. If Nintendo launches with casual type of games there's a huge core market untapped to be exploited but are they interested enough in the system itself? If they pull some sort of Zelda/Metroid type-game out of their hats or some third party collaborations the market will move into a different direction. Nintendo isn't showing their plans, concepts and or ideas or at least they haven't done that since E3.TwilightPrincess said:His source didn´t say anything about not bringing games to the console. He wanted to play with more power. And with Nintendo staying quiet about their own Games, which will sell quadrillions...... if you lack the ideas or an extra buck for innovative controller- usage, you wouldn´t like it too
Next Gen will be interesting.
kingkaiser
Member
H_Prestige said:
ahahahahaha...calling the Call of Duty audience hardcore, oh man...that was a good one
If publishers play their cards right, the WiiU could potentially give Wii games a second chance.
Playing Wii games on the WiiU controller should make for a fun time. And the games should look pretty decent on it. But, to get people to buy the games, publishers should pack a CD with two games or more.
Playing Wii games on the WiiU controller should make for a fun time. And the games should look pretty decent on it. But, to get people to buy the games, publishers should pack a CD with two games or more.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Chopper said:
Did they give any insight on how the hardware rates against current generations? Developers seem quite happy to talk about comparisons to next gen (which I guess are most important), but given I already expected that I really want to know how it rates against the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 performance levels.
Saint Gregory
Member
Half gen leap over what? It should be clear by now how over engineered (and I really don't mean that in a bad way) the 360 and PS3 were for when they were released. The fact that Nintendo also went against the norm in the opposite direction didn't help things.BurntPork said:
I'm pretty content with a medium range jump over what we have now as long as 1080P/60fps is there for most games. I'll save the Samaritan level stuff for whatever PC I build next.
Kinda what I meant. 3-5x the current gen.Saint Gregory said:
And I don't care about graphics. What pisses me off is that Iwata keeps talking about wanting better 3rd-party support for Wii U, then does nothing about the biggest problem Wii had! It's doomed to Wii-level third-party support if it really is just slightly about PS3/360.
TwilightPrincess
Member
[Nintex] said:
I disagree a little bit
Nintendo should bring "Core" Games at launch plus the casual tech demo, included in the pack If Nintendo only launches with casual games, it would be seen as the direction of the system again. It´s stupid, Nintendo won´t flood the market with games at the beginning of the cycle anyway. 3rd partys should do their best, even Red Steel did a Million on Wii. Resi 4 Controller Port did 2 mio +. Then there was crap and rail. I don´t see the problem with WiiU anyways, should be very cheap to bring multi-titles, it´s not the Wii Situation to begin with. The engines are all there and it will not look like N64 hehe
Saint Gregory
Member
Okay, but it shows hard hard it is to gauge what next gen will be like when there was such a divide between the Wii and HD camps this gen. Will Sony or MS look at how much money they bled early in the gen and change their strategy or will Nintendo look at the wasteland the Wii became and change theirs?BurntPork said:
But that does come down to graphical power even if that's not your main concern. Nintendo got buried at the end of this gen because everyone but them invested in the promise of HD gaming. If Nintendo is going to try to enter the market with a slightly overpowered PS360 then they've got to convince traditional 3rd party developers to stay with them on that level and leave the PS4/Xbox Next to PC developers.BurntPork said:
kingkaiser
Member
Snakeyes said:
Learned from whom?
The Company that built an overtuned piece of hardware that was extremely loud and burned down very easily in its first 2 years?
Or the other company that built an even more overtuned and hard to develop piece of hardware, lost half of their market share from last gen and lots of billion dollars?
Saint Gregory
Member
You missed that a person talked to a person who said that they were dissapointed by something or other.blu said:
Yeah...
Last I heard the rumors were pointing towards an AMD HD 4770 and something between 1 and 2GBs of RAM. If that holds true, that would mean between 2~3x GPU performance and 2~4x the RAM.EatChildren said:
Not enough to produce games which look significantly different than current gen (but that'd be the case even with double the power), but allow current-gen multiplatform to run without resorting to sub-HD resolutions, aggressive texture streaming and some games would be able to either run at 1080p or reach 60fps. As example, a Sonic Generations port would easily run at 60fps on such setup.
kingkaiser said:
Well, clearly NO console maker is going for the $599 box next gen. Bet that MS and Sony are going to be a lot more conservative this time around.
Still, there will be a noticeable jump in power since there hasn't been much of a radical jump in technology to increase the costs this time around. Even if Sony and MS plan on being a bit more conservative, Nintendo still runs the risk of getting left in the dust if they fool around and build the Wii U with PS360 in mind.
Hopefully it's not that bad and they manage to stay within range of what Sony and MS do (Especially MS, since it looks like the next Xbox is coming a lot sooner than the PS4). If Nintendo does that they should be fine, power-wise.
MY biggest concern with Nintendo is this thinking that all they have to do to compete for the hardcore crowd is simply say that they're competing for the hardcore crowd. It's not like turning on a light switch: consoles are about so much more than the hardware these days. It's about quality online infrastructure, building good relationships with 3rd parties by providing incentives, and tailoring hardware to be suitable for more than just your games. Frankly, Nintendo has ignored these areas for so long I'm concerned that they won't be able to just catch up.
Also, this isn't exactly a Wii situation. With the Wii Nintendo took exactly the same tech as last gen and just added more RAM and increased the clock speeds.
The Wii U is made using "mid-gen" hardware, which is what many people were expecting from the Wii when it was first announced.
The Wii U is made using "mid-gen" hardware, which is what many people were expecting from the Wii when it was first announced.
H_Prestige
Banned
You don't need to burn the house down to build a powerful hardware for a given price. Just look at the 3DS vs Vita. Both targeted at $250 but a huge difference in power level. I think we will be looking at the same exact situation with Wii U vs. PS4/720.kingkaiser said:
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