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[guek]

And how is it possible that the Wii never got a real lightsaber game, yet Kinect is already getting one?

It's called no more heroes and it's awesome ;-)

But I do know what you're talking about...it's probably because motion+ wasn't at launch...those assholes...

 

[guek]

You... get way too defensive. Its gonna be okay.

I just get irritated by incredibly stupid comments such as

This is my concern. Everything about the controller shown so far seems to get more in the players way rather than giving them some new sense of control, and in the end, it will be about 3rd parties coming up with something genuinely new.

I'm glad you've admitted to the possibility of some mildly novel ideas. It still feels like you're just looking for ways to hate on the controller though.

 

[Deku]

Meaning Nintendo's actual online system will be pretty basic at best. I would say my comments are based off of what they have specifically said, and their previous 'online systems' if you can even call them that. In comparison to their competitors, its a joke. And the company's general lack of focus on online multiplayer makes it that much more doubtful. I'm not saying it'll be shit 100%, but I certainly don't have high hopes.

I would love nothing more than to see Nintendo get their shit together in these regards, but they are so far behind at this point, I just don't see it happening.

They won't by your standards.

I think the idea of a walled Nintendo garden died when they realized they can't out compete established online gardens that has been cultivated for years.

We'd still probably get a walled eshop (I'm happy they threw DSi with 3DS store, but a little disappointed they didn't think bigger and sought to do 1 eshop for all their platforms)

Regardless, Iwata appears to want to disrupt the profitable cashcow like Live and he's going to use the distrust/grumblings of the big western publishers to do it by supporting their proprietary networks.

But really, WiiU doesn't have to become a PC, it just need to support a few big networks and it would greatly devalue having to pay an annual fee to access a PSN+ or Live account and that's really their plan of attack.

 

[Concept17]

I just get irritated by incredibly stupid comments such as




I'm glad you've admitted to the possibility of some mildly novel ideas. It still feels like you're just looking for ways to hate on the controller though.

I don't think my comments were stupid in any way. The fact that you're so accepting of any possible use of the controller just goes to show you're far too invested in something you've already chosen to buy. I would rather know what it is and isn't capable of before even considering using it, especially after the Wii, and especially since the controller is the size of my face.

 

[Concept17]

They won't by your standards.

I think the idea of a walled Nintendo garden died when they realized they can't out compete established online gardens that has been cultivated for years.

We'd still probably get a walled eshop (I'm happy they threw DSi with 3DS store, but a little disappointed they didn't think bigger and sought to do 1 eshop for all their platforms)

Regardless, Iwata appears to want to disrupt the profitable cashcow like Live and he's going to use the distrust/grumblings of the big western publishers to do it by supporting their proprietary networks.

But really, WiiU doesn't have to become a PC, it just need to support a few big networks and it would greatly devalue having to pay an annual fee to access a PSN+ or Live account and that's really their plan of attack.

Why shouldn't they go all out with their own online system? They certainly have the resources. I don't understand this argument at all. And its certainly not helpful to make the consumer have separate accounts for every single publisher and their 'own networks'.

 

[guek]

The fact that you're so accepting of any possible use of the controller just goes to show you're far too invested in something you've already chosen to buy.

Yeah nice assumption there. Did you not notice how I shot down that gif and implied not all its ideas were great? I might get one eventually, and I'm more open to the idea than you seem to be, but it'll all come down to games, of which we know very little.

Maybe I just have a problem with your use of absolutes. Only a sith deals in absolutes, you know.

 

[BurntPork]

You specifically said is a "problem with the implementation". I said there's no such problem.

I didn't say that. You're looking at the wrong guy.

However, I will argue that almost everything in gaming comes down to implementation in the end.

 

[Concept17]

Yeah nice assumption there. Did you not notice how I shot down that gif and implied not all its ideas were great? I might get one eventually, and I'm more open to the idea than you seem to be, but it'll all come down to games, of which we know very little.

Maybe I just have a problem with your use of absolutes. Only a sith deals in absolutes, you know.

I only assumed because you have defended every single point I have made with a fair amount of anger and frustration, like you just can't believe someone would question it in the first place. I've simply been questioning the uses of the controller, and so far no one has given me a response that makes me go "yeah ok, that makes sense".

 

[Mr_Brit]

Have Nintendo said why they went with circle pads over analog sticks?

 

[Concept17]

I didn't say that. You're looking at the wrong guy.

However, I will argue that almost everything in gaming comes down to implementation in the end.

I can more or less agree with this. A large part of it is implementation, but they are still constrained by the hardware at use. Yes with better implementation, the Wiimote did improve in such things as FPS, but due to its own technical limitations, it still limits the player far more than even a dual analog controller in most scenarios, especially FPS.

 

[BurntPork]

And how is it possible that the Wii never got a real lightsaber game, yet Kinect is already getting one?

I can live without this.

 

[guek]

I only assumed because you have defended every single point I have made with a fair amount of anger and frustration, like you just can't believe someone would question it in the first place. I've simply been questioning the uses of the controller, and so far no one has given me a response that makes me go "yeah ok, that makes sense".

Your original "point" pretty much just amounted to "it all sucks," something you backtracked on later when you agreed with some of my ideas.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I can live without this.

I would have killed for a technically deep Star Wars game chronicling Yoda, his early days as a Jedi and all. They could have had so many great ideas for that on the Wii, but that ship sailed.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Have Nintendo said why they went with circle pads over analog sticks?

Not directly said, but its obvious that its better for ergonomics, and a lot more durable and practical when using the controller in tablet mode. (less danger of sticks getting damaged when swiping motions are performed etc) It might also help when you need to recalibrate the tablets gyro sensors.
If they add a better grippy surface with texture to the circle pads, they are just as good as analog sticks. Allthough I must say that it takes a bit of getting used to since I usually "shove" the analog stick instead of having my finger on top of it, and I observed myself doing the same thing on the 3DS as well in the beginning.

 

[Deku]

Why shouldn't they go all out with their own online system? They certainly have the resources. I don't understand this argument at all. And its certainly not helpful to make the consumer have separate accounts for every single publisher and their 'own networks'.

You could ask the question of why didn't they produce a console with a power to match the 360 last gen when they clearly were sitting on a pile of cash. Of course had they gone that route, there would have been nothing to differentiate their high powered HD console and Nintendo could very well be out of business.

It's part strategy, and part conservatism

I don't think trying to match the Live environment is going to win them any brownie points. And unlike Sony or Microsoft they have a considerable chip on their shoulders in terms of third parties and publishers being spooked by them trying to control anything.

I'm not pretending to be won over, it could end up being nothing more than an ad hoc PS2 styled online system, though I find it highly unlikely given how the PS2 had an ad hoc online infrastructure ONLY because there was no push by the publishers for them (ok SquareEnix tried to do playonline, but that was only for one game and a free card game)

So rationally, a relatively open platform will probably be more interesting than one launched 12 years prior, and it plays to the concerns of the people they want to attract, the big big publishers like EA and Activision who has for years been making noise about monetizing their online for their own benefit, and not wanting to go through middlemen.

The fact that it threatens part of Microsoft and Sony's profitability models is probably also a nice bonus.

 

[airmangataosenai]

I don't see how it can really impact PSN+ as it currently exists as all that amounts to is a marketplace savings club/ early beta access system for 1st party games.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Not directly said, but its obvious that its better for ergonomics, and a lot more durable and practical when using the controller in tablet mode. (less danger of sticks getting damaged when swiping motions are performed etc) It might also help when you need to recalibrate the tablets gyro sensors.
If they add a better grippy surface with texture to the circle pads, they are just as good as analog sticks. Allthough I must say that it takes a bit of getting used to since I usually "shove" the analog stick instead of having my finger on top of it, and I observed myself doing the same thing on the 3DS as well in the beginning.

I'll have to strongly disagree. I think circle pads are nowhere near as good and are in no way a suitable replacement for analog sticks and I'm surprised people would prefer them. Also, you have an unusual technique as analog sticks are designed to have the finger placed on top and the stick tilted rather than pushing the stick from the base.

I only inquired as I thought there was some kind of technical reason for them being ommited not that they thought that they were better than analog sticks.

 

[Concept17]

Your original "point" pretty much just amounted to "it all sucks," something you backtracked on later when you agreed with some of my ideas.

Where did I ever imply it all sucks? I questioned various points being made about the controller. Also, if you re-read my reply to your mega bitching post, you'll see I didn't actually agree with you on any of it, certainly not in a way that made me think you actually came up with ideas for the controller that I can actually see anyone buying it for.

Again, I haven't seen any great ideas behind the controller itself, or anything that would actually benefit the player in a way other controllers don't.

 

[Concept17]

You could ask the question of why didn't they produce a console with a power to match the 360 last gen when they clearly were sitting on a pile of cash. Of course had they gone that route, there would have been nothing to differentiate their high powered HD console and Nintendo could very well be out of business.

It's part strategy, and part conservatism

I don't think trying to match the Live environment is going to win them any brownie points. And unlike Sony or Microsoft they have a considerable chip on their shoulders in terms of third parties and publishers being spooked by them trying to control anything.

I'm not pretending to be won over, it could end up being nothing more than an ad hoc PS2 styled online system, though I find it highly unlikely given how the PS2 had an ad hoc online infrastructure ONLY because there was no push by the publishers for them (ok SquareEnix tried to do playonline, but that was only for one game and a free card game)

So rationally, a relatively open platform will probably be more interesting than one launched 12 years prior, and it plays to the concerns of the people they want to attract, the big big publishers like EA and Activision who has for years been making noise about monetizing their online for their own benefit, and not wanting to go through middlemen.

The fact that it threatens part of Microsoft and Sony's profitability models is probably also a nice bonus.

I understand how it benefits publishers, but nothing else. How does this help the consumer or Nintendo?

 

[fabricated backlash]

I would have killed for a technically deep Star Wars game chronicling Yoda, his early days as a Jedi and all. They could have had so many great ideas for that on the Wii, but that ship sailed.

Say are you in any case the exploding head from Gametrailers?

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Say are you in any case the exploding head from Gametrailers?

We are one and the same, and you are? I like to think he's the evil version of me.

To be honest I just got sick of GT's broken site, I still post there pretty often though...

So between here, GT, Freedomain Radio, and college work I should stay pretty busy.

 

[Deku]

I understand how it benefits publishers, but nothing else. How does this help the consumer or Nintendo?

Nintendo = competitiveness/differentiation/good will from publishers

Consumers = no annual fees / choice.

There are no shortage of people who refuse to use Live because of the fee. A friend of mine even refuses to use steam because he doesn't like the software he is forced.

Granted there are a lot of benefits to a standardized online environment with standard branding and I think Nintendo tried something like it with Nintendo Wifi connection on the DS, which ironically was hobbled more by Nintendo's lack of network expertise/cheapness *no universal friends codes saved on the memory of the platform or a unified profiles system* than adoption. Many third parties, even tiny boutique publishers support Wifi connection, as it's a simple matchmaking service and data exchange for functions like items trading and online 'bazaars'. The more involved stuff like DLC and content downloads were more limited to bigger titles.

So in a strange way, they'd had some success operating a free to use, ad hoc online already.

Whether they will go that route on WiiU, we certainly can't say for sure on at this point. But I think we will see something like that as a baseline and if publishers want to charge to access certain games for their online networks, then they can do that too.

 

[guek]

Where did I ever imply it all sucks? I questioned various points being made about the controller. Also, if you re-read my reply to your mega bitching post, you'll see I didn't actually agree with you on any of it, certainly not in a way that made me think you actually came up with ideas for the controller that I can actually see anyone buying it for.

Again, I haven't seen any great ideas behind the controller itself, or anything that would actually benefit the player in a way other controllers don't.

lol, seriously?

This is my concern. Everything about the controller shown so far seems to get more in the players way rather than giving them some new sense of control, and in the end, it will be about 3rd parties coming up with something genuinely new.

I'm not sure I understand your point about the AI. The controller shows you where they are going? I can kind of see this being useful if you can switch from character to character and control them. Like sending out multiple squadrons and taking control when they get in fights, as shown by the controller. But again this kind of information can be easily relayed on your big screen. I don't see why I would want a second screen for this. You could be onto something here, but I'm not sure what.

I do like the whole drone control idea where you can still see your character. Its useful

The uses for things like video chat and lobbies while playing online would be nice. I hope third parties use it for things like that

Yeah, I know you're not completely agreeing with anything I've said. That's not what I'm implying. YOU, however, seem to be definitively stating that there's nothing worthwhile about the controller and that everything about it would serve as a detriment. And that's a really idiotic and pessimistic thing to say.

But that's it, I'm done. You're not here for discussion, you're here to bitch about how terrible you think the new controller is and nothing is going to persuade you to look at it objectively.

And before you go on and on about how I'm such a blind zealot who thinks everything about the controller is magical, I don't. I don't like the idea of minimaps and radar not being on the main screen (with the sole exception of Aliens:CM), I would much prefer analog sticks to circle pads, and I wish the damn thing had multi-touch.

 

[Concept17]

Nintendo = competitiveness/differentiation/good will from publishers

Consumers = no annual fees / choice.

There are no shortage of people who refuse to use Live because of the fee. A friend of mine even refuses to use steam because he doesn't like the software he is forced.

Granted there are a lot of benefits to a standardized online environment with standard branding and I think Nintendo tried something like it with Nintendo Wifi connection on the DS, which ironically was hobbled more by Nintendo's lack of network expertise/cheapness *no universal friends codes saved on the memory of the platform or a unified profiles system* than adoption. Many third parties, even tiny boutique publishers support Wifi connection, as it's a simple matchmaking service and data exchange for functions like items trading and online 'bazaars'. The more involved stuff like DLC and content downloads were more limited to bigger titles.

So in a strange way, they'd had some success operating a free to use, ad hoc online already.

Whether they will go that route on WiiU, we certainly can't say for sure on at this point. But I think we will see something like that as a baseline and if publishers want to charge to access certain games for their online networks, then they can do that too.

But both Live, and especially Steam are extremely successful. Both Steam and PSN are free to use, unify players through a unified community, and generally make it easy for both the consumer and publisher to benefit from each setup. If you leave it all to individual publisher, I imagine it would be more frustrating/confusing for the consumer to have to handle various networks, especially if some of those choose to make the consumer pay. (which I doubt would happen, but hey, activision, etc etc.)

Like you said, I guess we'll have to see. I'm interested in this other idea, but so far I don't see much reason for it other than just going a different route. Avoiding something because a competitor does it one way, doesn't mean they can't be successful doing their own, and I think most their consumers would welcome it.

 

[Deku]

But both Live, and especially Steam are extremely successful. Both Steam and PSN are free to use, unify players through a unified community, and generally make it easy for both the consumer and publisher to benefit from each setup. If you leave it all to individual publisher, I imagine it would be more frustrating/confusing for the consumer to have to handle various networks, especially if some of those choose to make the consumer pay. (which I doubt would happen, but hey, activision, etc etc.)

Like you said, I guess we'll have to see. I'm interested in this other idea, but so far I don't see much reason for it other than just going a different route. Avoiding something because a competitor does it one way, doesn't mean they can't be successful doing their own, and I think most their consumers would welcome it.

For sure, it's a spectrum. Live and Steam combined online services, profiles, and stores into one unified service.

I'm certain we'll see a store and profiles of some sort. The online aspect is different and I think it's certainly better for them to find a solution that differentiates them.

And I'd argue PSN isn't truly free as Sony's goal is to ape Live with PSN+ ; hence this has given Nintendo the opening to propose a system that isn't like what their competitors are doing.

I just think the question has a lot of moving parts and Nintendo's positioning is on analysis quite smart.

Execution of course is what will matter and we won't know that for sometime.

 

[Concept17]

lol, seriously?






Yeah, I know you're not completely agreeing with anything I've said. That's not what I'm implying. YOU, however, seem to be definitively stating that there's nothing worthwhile about the controller and that everything about it would serve as a detriment. And that's a really idiotic and pessimistic thing to say.

But that's it, I'm done. You're not here for discussion, you're here to bitch about how terrible you think the new controller is and nothing is going to persuade you to look at it objectively.

And before you go on and on about how I'm such a blind zealot who thinks everything about the controller is magical, I don't. I don't like the idea of minimaps and radar not being on the main screen (with the sole exception of Aliens:CM), I would much prefer analog sticks to circle pads, and I wish the damn thing had multi-touch.

So you're arguing all of this because I said "Everything" instead of something like "Most Everything"? Absolutes really mean that much to you huh? I think I actually stand by saying "Everything." As proven by you and your lack of ideas and examples has only gone to show that "Everything shown so far" does in fact get in the players way, or, as I've said before doesn't actually benefit the player over using any other controller.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I'll have to strongly disagree. I think circle pads are nowhere near as good and are in no way a suitable replacement for analog sticks and I'm surprised people would prefer them. Also, you have an unusual technique as analog sticks are designed to have the finger placed on top and the stick tilted rather than pushing the stick from the base.

I only inquired as I thought there was some kind of technical reason for them being ommited not that they thought that they were better than analog sticks.

Well for one, there are technical reasons as well. The shell for Analog sticks is considerably larger, so the small space in a Wii U controller would mean smaller bottom cases for the analog sticks, putting unneeded stress on the sticks, and making them prone to loosen up very fast (N64 levels) Thats actually one thing that I am worried about with the Vita.

What is it exactly that makes the circle pad considerably worse than an analog stick? Is it that you don't have an angle on wich to use it, because that is just a matter of retraining your thumb muscles. Mechanically and precision wise, there are no measurable shortcommings of analog sliders. The 3DS one is a tad too small and lacks a good surface texture. It becomes slippery and has a bit of a problem when small movements are required due to its loose initial acceleration.

I pretty much adapted to the Analog slider by now, and as far as Zeldas aiming and Resident Evil goes, I really don't notice any drops in accuracy or comfort.

And yeah, my unusual way to position my thumbs on the analog sticks has cause quite some bruises on my thumbs. But I guess there was a bit of a misunderstanding. I am not using the base, but the outer rim of the upper "disc" to dirigate around. That has lead to some grave problems with using the Dual Shock controllers as my thumbs would start getting in each others way at times.^^

 

[guek]

eh, people tend to dislike change, particularly when it's changing from something that's been proven to work so well such as analog sticks. I haven't had much experience with the 3DS circle pads so I can't say whether or not it's better or worse than analog sticks, but I know the latter works incredibly well so it's presently what I'd prefer.

Most people will likely end up adapting and rarely thinking about it.

 

[Concept17]

For sure, it's a spectrum. Live and Steam combined online services, profiles, and stores into one unified service.

I'm certain we'll see a store and profiles of some sort. The online aspect is different and I think it's certainly better for them to find a solution that differentiates them.

And I'd argue PSN isn't truly free as Sony's goal is to ape Live with PSN+ ; hence this has given Nintendo the opening to propose a system that isn't like what their competitors are doing.

I just think the question has a lot of moving parts and Nintendo's positioning is on analysis quite smart.

Execution of course is what will matter and we won't know that for sometime.

I guess when I say free, I mean its free to play games online. Something Live isn't.

And yeah, that remains my concern. I would have a little more hope for their plans if they had already shown us how it works, or given more details. It would be nice to know more.

 

[fabricated backlash]

eh, people tend to dislike change, particularly when it's changing from something that's been proven to work so well such as analog sticks. I haven't had much experience with the 3DS circle pads so I can't say whether or not it's better or worse than analog sticks, but I know the latter works incredibly well so it's presently what I'd prefer.

Most people will likely end up adapting and rarely thinking about it.

I know I don't mind the circle pad anymore. The getting used to time was short, and I can use it as precise as a normal analog stick now. Still, the presence of analog sticks means no more IR wiimote aiming FPS on Wii.
That alone is a huge backstep and probably my biggest dissapointement so far. Going back to analog aiming is going to make me very very sad. I really hope some developers will have Wiimote aiming still in their games. (maybe use that new zapper to get all buttons and functions on it)

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I guess when I say free, I mean its free to play games online. Something Live isn't.

Pretty soon, not if you buy used. Sony more and more has been looking to find ways to charge for their network infrastructure, first by charging publishers per MB for downloads, then with the PSN Plus program and now starting the PSN Pass fees. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them move to a full subscription based model in the future given how much money Live's made (and how little PSN has by comparison).

 

[MrBelmontvedere]

the tray ("controller") could be used to serve meals on

 

[fabricated backlash]

the tray ("controller") could be used to serve meals on

Wii sushi confirmed.

 

[AceBandage]

More like Diner Dash HD.

 

[fabricated backlash]

More like Diner Dash HD.

lol yeah... can't wait to see the instructions manuals pictogram that tells you what not to do with your wii U tablet.

Telephone Book manual confirmed, Nintendo responsible for Amazonian deforestation.

 

[AceBandage]

lol yeah... can't wait to see the instructions manuals pictogram that tells you what not to do with your wii U tablet.

Telephone Book manual confirmed, Nintendo responsible for Amazonian deforestation.

Just put that ON the UTab. Kind of like the instruction manuals on the 3DS.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Just put that ON the UTab. Kind of like the instruction manuals on the 3DS.

Good idea, on bootup you'll have to watch every single instruction, unskippable, and narrated by a soothing female voice. And for the first month a bug will randomly force you to watch this instruction video every time you boot up the console (wii sports resort style)^^

Seriously though, an integrated manual is great and on the 3DS it works like a charm.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I've never personally used a circle pad for any length of time (in store messing with a 3DS). So maybe I don't have a valid opinion, but I do know that at least generally a longer distance to 0 equals more precision. So in other words the taller the analog stick the more precise and direct the accuracy will be. So I guess time will tell if multiplat FPS's transfer well to the circle pads, I just hope we don't see a 360 D-pad type situation. But an updated CCPro (basically a CCPro with all the features of a 360 controller and more) could remedy this issue. But it may not be packed in every box...

I'd love to see Nintendo be the first to launch a fully mechanical (micro-switch) controller, with adjustable tension, and mappable buttons too. But my biggest gripes with all analog sticks are that they get loose after using them for a while (which adjustable tension can help). If circle pads can remedy that, and be a suitable replacement to analog I'm all for it.

 

[lednerg]

The advantage of having circle pads is that they can be placed closer to the edge and still be comfortable. Sticks would need to be placed further away from the edge, which would get in the way of the screen. To see what I'm talking about, hold a Wiimote (or a classic controller) and put your thumb on the D-pad. Then lift your thumb a bit and try to move it like you're moving an analog stick - it's very uncomfortable.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I've never personally used a circle pad for any length of time (in store messing with a 3DS). So maybe I don't have a valid opinion, but I do know that at least generally a longer distance to 0 equals more precision. So in other words the taller the analog stick the more precise and direct the accuracy will be. So I guess time will tell if multiplat FPS's transfer well to the circle pads, I just hope we don't see a 360 D-pad type situation. But an updated CCPro (basically a CCPro with all the features of a 360 controller and more) could remedy this issue. But it may not be packed in every box...

I'd love to see Nintendo be the first to launch a fully mechanical (micro-switch) controller, with adjustable tension, and mappable buttons too. But my biggest gripes with all analog sticks are that they get loose after using them for a while (which adjustable tension can help). If circle pads can remedy that, and be a suitable replacement to analog I'm all for it.

Mechanically speaking you are right. The longer the stick, the finer your movements are translated into inputs. Thats why there are these ridiculous looking STick enhancements that are usually posted with a pic of xzibit. As far as precision and resistance goes, the 3DS analog slider is on par with the Gamecube and Wii Analog sticks. The only problem that I see is the lack of the octagonal shaped shell that helps orientation on most analog sticks.

I guess it's too early to say how durable Analog sliders are going to be. I actually think that they could last longer due to less non gaming related force (controllers thrown, put down on the wrong side etc) applied to the sticks.

 

[Jokeropia]

Except those buttons are always in the same place. They wouldn't be on a screen. My point here is the controller makes control schemes unnecessarily complicated when you could just press normal buttons.

Using the touch screen just for adding some extra buttons is probably the least imaginative utilization I can think of. There's a ton of ways a touch screen can be implemented effectively for gaming, but emulating regular buttons is not one of those ways.

Not sure about a stylus fps game. It could work, but I don't think dragging a stylus across the screen would be any more efficient than the wiimote.

Both of those ways are far better than dual analog, at any rate. This is not even open for debate, aiming with an analog stick is archaic at this point.

 

[kunonabi]

I'll say it again:

Bushido Blade in 1st person mode + lightsabers + motionplus = MONEY

maybe the WiiU will finally get the game even has been dreaming of.

Just make a full on Star wars game. You could use the WiiU controller to swivel around and shoot down tie fighters like Episode IV.

Balance Board, WiiU controller, Wiimote & nunchuck, and modern hardware should equal the best Star Wars game ever.

 

[hellclerk]

So you're arguing all of this because I said "Everything" instead of something like "Most Everything"? Absolutes really mean that much to you huh? I think I actually stand by saying "Everything." As proven by you and your lack of ideas and examples has only gone to show that "Everything shown so far" does in fact get in the players way, or, as I've said before doesn't actually benefit the player over using any other controller.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

Do you know what else gets in the way of the gamer? The hud, the interface, the inventory screen which you have to press a button and then stop playing the game to navigate, actually, pretty much everything in the game that prevents the player from literally BEING the character on screen. The point of interface is to minimize that separation between character and game. Sometimes it's done fantastically, sometimes not so much. The point of the Wii controller and the WUT is to give more tools to reduce that separation, and where it doesn't work, have them experience the game without taking up the TV screen. Guess what: while YOU might think that picture in picture or Detective Mode is a gimmick, it's a game mechanic that would be made more intuitive by interacting with the controller. This is objective because there is a measurably lower barrier between the regular game and the view given by detective mode. Sometimes though, it could be something simple. For example, Metro: Last Light's weapon inventory isn't small, at 7 weapons, and it can be annoying to have to spend precious seconds cycling between throwing knives for stealth and that AK-47 you need when someone spots you. Having your inventory right there on the touch screen a tap away would be very useful.

Now, will there be shitty ideas? Yes. Will there be good ones? Absolutely. Is your overwhelming negativity and dismissiveness in any way objective, logical, reasonable, or non-trolling? Not really. So please, review what you said and try and take it from a more objective stance. You're welcome to have your doubts, concerns, and even malice, but that's not really what this thread is for, it's for what we know and finding out how much we can project from that.

 

[lwilliams3]

What, like RE4? Pretty much any fps that requires you to turn, or move in any direction while aiming is infinitely better on a dual analog. But this is old news.

Well for instance, any of these. Any of the information shown on the controller's screen could be easily seen through a pause menu or on the UI itself. As far as minimizing the UI or making it less cluttered... that can more easily be done through use of more efficient UI's (like dead space) rather than using a giant controller.

A pause menu effectively breaks the action. Having easier access to some features in realtime by itself is more efficient and a very nice addition. It is even more helpful in online games which usually prohibit pausing a game. Compared to an UI, you can specifically zoom up and focus on certain things that would have to be relatively small (like a map) without pausing.

One cool feature that is more "cool" is the speakers that is on the controller itself. They will have to be at a high-quality than the ones on the Wii-mote, and can potentially add interaction to the gaming world.

 

[bgassassin]

Speaking of controller audio, imagine a horror game that came with earphones and "required" you use them due to certain extra sounds in the game.

 

[Fou-Lu]

Speaking of controller audio, imagine a horror game that came with earphones and "required" you use them due to certain extra sounds in the game.

Head/earphones should be mandatory for all horror games.

I really hope we'll see some more horror games on the Wii U, my second favorite genre for sure.

 

[Freezie KO]

I can more or less agree with this. A large part of it is implementation, but they are still constrained by the hardware at use. Yes with better implementation, the Wiimote did improve in such things as FPS, but due to its own technical limitations, it still limits the player far more than even a dual analog controller in most scenarios, especially FPS.

No way. Analog sticks are way less precise. Even Black Ops gives more aim assist to the Classic Controller users to compensate. And nothing stops you from customizing your turn speed to be as fast as you want. Making a tiny "bounding box" with a lightning fast turn speed can get you to do a 180 just as fast as a stick.

But I agree with you about the implementation of the Wii U controller. The whole purpose of a "Head's-Up Display" is to give you a head's up. It's so you don't have to look away. Some cars are even adding a HUD display onto the windshield, so drivers don't have to look down if they don't want to. This is because it's obviously easier to keep looking at the action/road than to look away.

 

[maeda]

Cirle pads instead of sticks seem like a weird decision. From my experimentation on 3DS they do seem to approximate in terms of sensitivity and accuracy the best analog stick in this world, namely the one on the GameCube pad, but only beyond a certain range, since it seems that just like crappy sticks found on DualShock they have a noticeable dead zone.
By the way, I am usually an invert Y-axis guy, thanks to Nintendo games, but in Ocarina of Time I wasn't even aware that the default Y-axis movement is non-inverted, however I didn't experience any problems with aiming! Later when I checked in the options, the default option was non-inverted, so I tried the inverted option and just couldn't play! Has anyone experienced this?

 

[phosphor112]

Cirle pads instead of sticks seem like a weird decision. From my experimentation on 3DS they do seem to approximate in terms of sensitivity and accuracy the best analog stick in this world, namely the one on the GameCube pad, but only beyond a certain range, since it seems that just like crappy sticks found on DualShock they have a noticeable dead zone.
By the way, I am usually an invert Y-axis guy, thanks to Nintendo games, but in Ocarina of Time I wasn't even aware that the default Y-axis movement is non-inverted, however I didn't experience any problems with aiming! Later when I checked in the options, the default option was non-inverted, so I tried the inverted option and just couldn't play! Has anyone experienced this?

I can't stand using those circle pads. They have zero grip. Even the 64 controller had some sort of ridges so your thumb doesn't just FLY off. I found that while playing OoT 3D, I had trouble (at times) to get Link to run (because he was walking), or constantly run because my thumb would slide causing the slider not to go to it's "max."

And yes, I have sweaty hands.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Iirc, they've (Miyamoto, Iwata, someone?) said already that the 3DS circle pads and the UTab circle pads are not the same in terms of sensitivity or design or something, although it looks like they have the same 'grip' but that could easily change before launch.