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[guek]

Probably depends on how much leeway Nintendo is giving with their online service.

That's interesting to think about since one of the few things they've been adamant about this time around is that their future online system will allow developers lots of flexibility to do what they want.

 

[opticalmace]

Probably depends on how much leeway Nintendo is giving with their online service.



Said that Gabe was big on the Wii U about a month before E3 and that Gabe also liked the new online system Nintendo was implementing. Also talked about Nintendo's new console about a month before the French site leaked the info.

True. Considering how they've handled online matters up to this point, the best I'm reasonably hoping for is a series of Steamworks titles.

 

[brochiller]

Sorry, I should have explained better. I'm not saying the Wii is a last gen console. Of course it's part of the current gen. But therein lies the problem with Gabe saying the Wii U is more powerful than the "previous generation." The 360 and PS3 are certainly not yet part of the previous generation. They're a part of the current generation of consoles, as is the wii. They wont become the previous gen until the next gen gets here.

So when Gabe says the Wii U is more powerful than the previou gen, he could only really be talking about the Wii because that's the preceding nintendo console. If he had said current gen, it would be a more inclusive statement that would cover both the wii and the HD twins.

Not really.

He was speaking in relation to the Wii U. Compared to the Wii U, the 360/PS3/Wii are all part of the previous generation.

 

[guek]

Or he just looks at the Wii U as a next generation console, which would make PS3 and Xbox 360 the "previous generation".

Yeah, I considered that, but I think it'd have to be quite a powerhouse to stand out immediately as a true next gen console (graphically speaking that is) in the eyes of someone like Gabe Newell. Who knows, maybe that's actually the case? You're right though in that we don't have much context.

 

[MrBelmontvedere]

I just hope Wii U turns out well

mostly for the Nintendo games, which are usually great!

as for ports, well won't it be ironic if the Wii U has the gold standard port of say COD =) (excluding PC of course)

 

[Jin34]

Probably depends on how much leeway Nintendo is giving with their online service.



Said that Gabe was big on the Wii U about a month before E3 and that Gabe also liked the new online system Nintendo was implementing. Also talked about Nintendo's new console about a month before the French site leaked the info.

At first I was like "FUUUUUUU...". But they probably like the online because it will allow them to do updates in the way Valve likes without all the restrictions Xbox Live has.

 

[bgassassin]

That's interesting to think about since one of the few things they've been adamant about this time around is that their future online system will allow developers lots of flexibility to do what they want.

Right. For all we know Nintendo would let them have at it.

That Gabe Newell was impressed with WiiU and it's ease of development.
http://www.hiphopgamershow.com/2011...-nintendo-aims-to-kill-competition-hhgs-5811/

start @ 12:29

HipHopGamer also said: "Developers are guaranteeing that you will get more out of Nintendo's Online that you will from Xbox Live."

It's a bold claim to make, but one I am fully prepared to see realized.

LOL. You go the edit in right when I was about to mention the time it starts.

 

[GDGF]

Said that Gabe was big on the Wii U about a month before E3 and that Gabe also liked the new online system Nintendo was implementing. Also talked about Nintendo's new console about a month before the French site leaked the info.

Yep. Hip Hop gamer has been pretty on point about the WiiU since before jump.

 

[BurntPork]

Anyone taking this to mean that the Wii U is way ahead of PS3/360 needs to calm down. The context of the quote and the fact that Joystiq didn't choose to highlight that part makes it painfully obvious that he means Wii. The phrasing is clearly pointing toward him comparing it to Wii. You guys are getting ridiculous. smh

People thinking that anything more than Steamworks for Valve titles will come also need to get a grip.

 

[wsippel]

HipHopGamer also said: "Developers are guaranteeing that you will get more out of Nintendo's Online that you will from Xbox Live."

It's a bold claim to make, but one I am fully prepared to see realized.

If publishers really can implement pretty much whatever the fuck they want, it'll be amazing. There needs to be some basic integration between the services (a single identity, unified friends list and messaging) and you have the best online system imaginable: All of them.

 

[guek]

It'd kinda be funny if nintendo lets valve set up steam and it becomes a 3rd party online hub for other 3rd parties. Nintendo's online games might still suck but if steam is allowed to operate fully functionally, most wouldn't have much to complain about.

 

[AceBandage]

Anyone taking this to mean that the Wii U is way ahead of PS3/360 needs to calm down. The context of the quote and the fact that Joystiq didn't choose to highlight that part makes it painfully obvious that he means Wii. The phrasing is clearly pointing toward him comparing it to Wii. You guys are getting ridiculous. smh

People thinking that anything more than Steamworks for Valve titles will come also need to get a grip.

You keep telling yourself that.

 

[guek]

eh, I think having your expectations be reasonable isn't such a bad thing.

 

[brochiller]

An IGN interview with Peter Moore just went up. I haven't been keeping up with this thread too much, but I haven't seen this posted yet. Here's one highlight:

Nintendo has recognized the future is connected. The future is online. The future is about building powerful communities. They know they have to do that, and certainly with the conversations I've been in with them I'm very optimistic. We all need to help them, which we're all willing to do. When I say "we" I mean developers and publishers bringing their best practices.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/117/1177162p1.html

 

[antonz]

I think its fair to say most of us have very realistic and grounded expectations. A system 2-4x overall performance wise. Its not gonna be a 6990 or whatever crazy shit some people think will be in next gen systems but it will be enough to say its more than just the same.

Would a 6990 be nice? sure would but in the end I dont need a console the size of my desktop PC.

 

[M3d10n]

It'd kinda be funny if nintendo lets valve set up steam and it becomes a 3rd party online hub for other 3rd parties. Nintendo's online games might still suck but if steam is allowed to operate fully functionally, most wouldn't have much to complain about.

Based on Iwata's comments before E3, it's very likely that the Wii U's online infrastructure is gonna be designed/handled by another company. I don't think it's Valve, though.

One of the developers' most ardent complaints against Xbox Live is that it's very restrictive. There are strict limits on offering free stuff and it's almost impossible to make fast changing games like MMOs or games that are heavy on user-generated content. Patches and changes also must go through long and expensive certifications.

If Nintendo manages an online system that can at the very least host games like TF2, they'd have a nice advantage.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

If Nintendo's relaxed online means that WiiU has Steam support (not just Steamworks, you understand), then I will lose my fucking shit.

Actually it's best generalized as being able to group devices. What defines a generation is disputable.

1st - Initial generation. Devices that had 1 or more built in games and connected to the TV.
2nd - Initial generation with swappable cartridges.
3rd - Generation where Nintendo recovered from the crash of the 2nd generation.
4th - New consoles with more buttons and the ability to display 256+ colors on screen at once.
5th - Introduction of 3D accelerators.
6th - Improvement of 3D accelerators.

Disputable:

7th - HD output with hardware to take advantage of it (Nintendo was late) OR Motion Control (MS and Sony were late).

8th - Better HD (Won't start for a while) OR Touchpad controls combined with more tradtional dual analogs (Nintendo starts it) OR something completely different.

I think I'll wait a few years and let Wikipedia decide.

Console generations are governed by release date, not by feature set.

 

[bgassassin]

True. Considering how they've handled online matters up to this point, the best I'm reasonably hoping for is a series of Steamworks titles.

Compared to the past, even that would be a step in the right direction for Nintendo.

At first I was like "FUUUUUUU...". But they probably like the online because it will allow them to do updates in the way Valve likes without all the restrictions Xbox Live has.

More than likely. And if Hip Hop Gamer is correct about the online, they'll get the freedom without having to deal with maintaining the servers.

Yep. Hip Hop gamer has been pretty on point about the WiiU since before jump.

Yeah. Now we just have to see how accurate he is about the online aspect.

For those that are interested, here is the HHG video about the Wii U coming out back on March 20th. It also gives more detail about what Nintendo's online plans are supposed to look like.

http://www.hiphopgamershow.com/2011...w-technology-and-more-hhgs-32011-pax-edition/

Starts around 15:35. May or may not need to let it load a little before skipping to that part.

 

[wsippel]

Anyone taking this to mean that the Wii U is way ahead of PS3/360 needs to calm down. The context of the quote and the fact that Joystiq didn't choose to highlight that part makes it painfully obvious that he means Wii. The phrasing is clearly pointing toward him comparing it to Wii. You guys are getting ridiculous. smh

People thinking that anything more than Steamworks for Valve titles will come also need to get a grip.

Even if it's only, say, two or three times as powerful, with 1 - 2GB RAM, it is way ahead of PS360 from a developer point of view. Especially if developers know that PS3 and 360 are here to stay, and there are some statements and events suggesting just that. So no, the phrasing is not clearly pointing at anything.

 

[faridmon]

Is it region locked?

 

[BurntPork]

You keep telling yourself that.

I'm not saying that it's not way more powerful; I'm saying that the quote is clearly focusing on Wii compared to Wii U. We need a hype ceiling. Jumping on this quote without looking at the context that's right there, clearly talking about a console that Valve was not able to support, is a sign that the hype needs to get in check.

 

[USC-fan]

Even if it's only, say, two or three times as powerful, with 1 - 2GB RAM, it is way ahead of PS360 from a developer point of view. Especially if developers know that PS3 and 360 are here to stay, and there are some statements and events suggesting just that. So no, the phrasing is not clearly pointing at anything.

Yeah going off the rumor specs it will be at least 6x-10x more powerful than the current gen. I really hope it is...it would push the other consoles to more powerful hardware also!

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

eh, I think having your expectations be reasonable isn't such a bad thing.

But whatever I want to do with my expectations is my business. I really don't need someone coming around trying to tell me I'm wrong to think this when they don't have anything but their own assumptions and speculation to back up their own personal expectations.

 

[hellclerk]

So wait... this isn't a catch all thread?

Because apparently Square Enix is considering a launch title for Wii U and giving Dragon Quest X Wii U functionality.

link and link

CALLED IT!

 

[Bamboozle]

Wii U seems to be shaping up to be a killer console. Great 1st party games, great 3rd party support, great online capabilities, great graphics. Defiantly a must buy.

 

[AceBandage]

CALLED IT!

It'll still be a Wii only game, but it might have some additional features for Wii U.
Either way, that should give the U a nice boost in Japan.

 

[Plinko]

We all need to help them, which we're all willing to do. When I say "we" I mean developers and publishers bringing their best practices.

I think it's great that Moore is calling on 3rd parties to help Nintendo out. That said, I find it a little weird.

 

[birdchili]

It'll still be a Wii only game, but it might have some additional features for Wii U.
Either way, that should give the U a nice boost in Japan.

assuming they're using the pointer at all (they *are* using the pointer, right???), i can't see a massive benefit to using the ucontroller.

i guess to display interface stuff while sitting on your lap/on a coffee table?

 

[AceBandage]

I think it's great that Moore is calling on 3rd parties to help Nintendo out. That said, I find it a little weird.

It's in their best interest, though.
If third parties can pioneer an open market on consoles, then they won't have to go through console makers like they do with XBL and PSN.
This would save time and money.

 

[antonz]

I think it's great that Moore is calling on 3rd parties to help Nintendo out. That said, I find it a little weird.

I think he is just presenting what Nintendo has been saying in a different way. Nintendo is working with the 3rd parties directly on developing the way the whole online system will work out.

 

[Coolwhip]

MarkRein Mark Rein
Valve likes the WiiU -- the idea of having full Steam support on WiiU excites me quite a bit! Valve rocks! http://aol.it/kNm1nd

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/22/valve-interested-in-wii-u-it-fits-better-into-our-scalability/

"Wii U seems to be a lot more powerful than the previous generation," he told Joystiq. "It sort of fits better into the scalability in terms of graphics performance and CPU performance, so I think it'll be a lot easier for us to fit it into our scalability model." Valve has yet to release any of its games on a Nintendo console, though Gabe told us, "We've always loved Nintendo." He also pointed out that Valve has been slowly transitioning from the PC to console counterparts, starting with Xbox 360 and more recently moving to the PlayStation 3 in a major way with Steam getting ported to Sony's console.

And it looks like Nintendo may be next, as Newell restated, "Now it's a lot easier to look at Wii U and have it fit within that framework." As for us, we're most excited to see what Valve might do with the WiiPad."

Oh this is old. He posted it on Twitter an hour ago. Gaf is fast!

 

[Axkil aka StabMasterArson]

Anyone taking this to mean that the Wii U is way ahead of PS3/360 needs to calm down. The context of the quote and the fact that Joystiq didn't choose to highlight that part makes it painfully obvious that he means Wii. The phrasing is clearly pointing toward him comparing it to Wii. You guys are getting ridiculous. smh

People thinking that anything more than Steamworks for Valve titles will come also need to get a grip.

How dare you say that, while sporting a Zelda: SS (seen that face before) avatar to boot. There is no reason for him to mean just Wii. If he just meant Wii, he would have said so. He's not a stupid guy. He's been reading Gaf for the last five years so he knows the rift between "NexGenX360/PS3 vs lowly weaktard Wii. Why would he purposely fan the flames by creating more confusion?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Let´see...

HD Generation PowerPC Core

3.2Ghz
Long pipeline (21 Stages if I don´t remember wrong)
Dual Issue
In-Order
Multithreading
VMX
Big
Hot

PowerPC 476FP

1.6Ghz
Short Pipeline (9 Stages)
Out-of-Order
No-Multithreading
Small (3.6mm core+4mm 512KB core)
1.9W per core

Put 3 of them inside a die with their L2 Caches and you will get a CPU that is not more bigger than the Broadway included with the Wii, with similar power consumption and 10 times more powerful. More than enough for a next generation jump.

476FP is a direct decendant of broadway. It would make sense in lots of ways. I don't know how to reconcile that with the edram confirmation though.

 

[AceBandage]

I think we can safely assume that whatever CPU the Wii U is using, it's a very custom piece.

 

[dacuk]

476FP is a direct decendant of broadway. It would make sense in lots of ways. I don't know how to reconcile that with the edram confirmation though.

Pardon my sincere ignorance, Grampa, but this 476FP would be able to emulate properly Broadway?

 

[Coolwhip]

How dare you say that, while sporting a Zelda: SS (seen that face before) avatar to boot. There is no reason for him to mean just Wii. If he just meant Wii, he would have said so. He's not a stupid guy. He's been reading Gaf for the last five years so he knows the rift between "NexGenX360/PS3 vs lowly weaktard Wii. Why would he purposely fan the flames by creating more confusion?

Maybe because he has been reading Gaf for the last five years.

 

[wsippel]

Pardon my sincere ignorance, Grampa, but this 476FP would be able to emulate properly Broadway?

I have my doubts, and as I wrote, no off-the-shelf PowerPC can run Broadway binaries. Broadway is customized in a way that makes it incompatible with regular PowerPCs.

 

[bgassassin]

Something that really hasn't been talked about enough is that Wii U might be using (at least) DirectX 10.1 or most like an equivalent-level API. Considering PS3 uses PSGL and Xbox 360 uses a modified DirectX 9, that should also play a difference correct? I don't game on PCs enough to know the level of difference, just that there is supposed to be a difference.

 

[AceBandage]

Something that really hasn't been talked about enough is that Wii U might be using (at least) DirectX 10.1 or most like an equivalent-level API. Considering PS3 uses PSGL and Xbox 360 uses a modified DirectX 9, that should also play a difference correct? I don't game on PCs enough to know the level of difference, just that there is supposed to be a difference.

It would be GL shaders from 4.1. It's, for all intents and purposes, the same as Direct X.

 

[bgassassin]

It would be GL shaders from 4.1. It's, for all intents and purposes, the same as Direct X.

I figured as much since that's about what I've been hoping for, but how about the difference?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I figured as much since that's about what I've been hoping for, but how about the difference?

Direct X is owned by microsoft. The code isn't directly compatible, but they offer pretty well identical features so it's a matter of converting it from direct x to open gl for porting.

 

[AceBandage]

Which developers are fairly apt at doing already.

Right I understand that. I mean the visual difference between something of that level versus what we see with PS360.

360/PS3 uses DX9/GL3.

So it's over a generation ahead in terms of shaders.

 

[bgassassin]

Direct X is owned by microsoft. The code isn't directly compatible, but they offer pretty well identical features so it's a matter of converting it from direct x to open gl for porting.

Right I understand that. I mean the visual difference between something of that level versus what we see with PS360.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Right I understand that. I mean the visual difference between something of that level versus what we see with PS360.

As we see in Crysis 2 and The Witcher 2, DX9 featuresets that PS3/360 have can almost always achieve everything that modern DX / OGL can. There are a few exceptions (tessellation being most obvious), but the main difference is the efficiency of the code on newer ones being greater.

 

[GLopez12]

Does anyone have that gif from the Zelda Wii U demo of Link with the fairy fluttering around? That alone makes me believe.

 

[AceBandage]

Bonus:

 

[Luckyman]

Yeah going off the rumor specs it will be at least 6x-10x more powerful than the current gen. I really hope it is...it would push the other consoles to more powerful hardware also!

A+

 

[BurntPork]

How dare you say that, while sporting a Zelda: SS (seen that face before) avatar to boot. There is no reason for him to mean just Wii. If he just meant Wii, he would have said so. He's not a stupid guy. He's been reading Gaf for the last five years so he knows the rift between "NexGenX360/PS3 vs lowly weaktard Wii. Why would he purposely fan the flames by creating more confusion?

Wouldn't he have to base that quote off of the dev kit? The same one that couldn't produce graphics above the current gen and is being replaced to help fix that?

 

[bgassassin]

As we see in Crysis 2 and The Witcher 2, DX9 featuresets that PS3/360 have can almost always achieve everything that modern DX / OGL can. There are a few exceptions (tessellation being most obvious), but the main difference is the efficiency of the code on newer ones being greater.

Ok. Would I be correct to assume that the increased efficiency allows for devs to "add more" to games to make them look better?

EDIT: The more I look at the detail in that Link, the more I can see that being the type of design for a SSB Link.

 

[hellclerk]

Yeah. Now we just have to see how accurate he is about the online aspect.

For those that are interested, here is the HHG video about the Wii U coming out back on March 20th. It also gives more detail about what Nintendo's online plans are supposed to look like.

http://www.hiphopgamershow.com/2011...w-technology-and-more-hhgs-32011-pax-edition/

Starts around 15:35. May or may not need to let it load a little before skipping to that part.

The only definite thing that he said about the online was a dedicated server option for developers, and the Wii already has this. Nintendo offers space for dedicated servers for companies that want to run on it, so this basically tells me nothing that we can't logically expand on.

On the same token, impressive that he got that much info on the system so early.