Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012

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BurntPork said:
Oh, by the way, is it really true that Nintendo isn't allowing devs to put free demos on the eShop? Because if it is and they don't change that, they really are clueless and stuck in the past. I'm guessing it's because Nintendo has taken the horrible practice of expiring content and has no plans to enter the 21st century in that area.
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We only know that those demos will be available for a limited time only. And I believe publishers will be charged for demos just as they are for DS demos on the Nintendo channel.


For some reason I read "after" as "at".
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I have no doubt that there's something coming at E3 2012. Even Nintendo must have noticed that their current strategy of sequels and popular franchises is not working.
 
I believe the original plan was to release mostly sequels and remakes at $250 price point, then drop the price and (or) introduce a revision and only then release big new casual IPs. That's the only way to explain the current game library, unless they are out of ideas completely. Aside from what is announced so far for 3DS the only potential system seller I see is a new 2D Mario. If they want 3DS to be the true successor they need to release big new IPs and I'm sure Iwata perfectly understands it. Now that 3DS is $170 we'll definitely see something interesting next holiday season or probably even earlier.
 
Shiggy said:
We only know that those demos will be available for a limited time only. And I believe publishers will be charged for demos just as they are for DS demos on the Nintendo channel.
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Eh?
Where did you hear this?
 
Shiggy said:
We only know that those demos will be available for a limited time only. And I believe publishers will be charged for demos just as they are for DS demos on the Nintendo channel.
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Facepalm.jpg


Would someone inform Nintendo that we're not in the 90s anymore?


Do Sony and MS charge publishers for demos as well? I'd assume that they charge some type of "small" fee.
 
I think what we know is that at the moment Nintendo doesn't want/won't allow free 3rd party software on the eshop, this was given as the reason why the loveplus import feature thing, to be downloadable through the eshop costs like a buck or something. Konami said it was because Nintendo doesn't allow free software on the eshop (but the pokedex is free so...).

But there is no word on how demos will be handled, if that will be a new category in the eshop or just handled like the rest of the software. The Yuji Naka sound game will be a demo on the eshop and it will cost $2 I think but I'm not sure if that's part of the demo scheme or just normal eshop software. Its also debatable if it is a demo or just episodic content because it is called chapter 1 of the game and it has yet to be determined if other chapters will be made available. I personally hope the entire game is made dd by chapter as that's a cool way to experience a game and will hopefully cost less that the presumed $40 retail.

Edit: Also I don't recall hearing anything about demos being time limited, Iwata definitely did not say that in the recent investor Q and A. But who knows?
 
I'd love a new IP in the vein of Zelda, because there really isn't enough out there.

Startropics reboot? :o
 
BurntPork said:
Would someone inform Nintendo that we're not in the 90s anymore?


Do Sony and MS charge publishers for demos as well? I'd assume that they charge some type of "small" fee.
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Sony charges the publisher per MB for every download on PSN, be it a demo, dlc, game or patch, wether it's paid or free. It was part of their plan to get PSN into the black a couple years back. It's why the PS3 versions of SF4 don't have the dlc alternate costumes online unless you've paid for them, even if you're fighting someone who does, to name an example.

Microsoft doesn't charge anything, Gold subscribers basically subsidize those costs for everyone.

This is the first I'm hearing of Nintendo charging for demos.
 
BurntPork said:
Do Sony and MS charge publishers for demos as well? I'd assume that they charge some type of "small" fee.
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AFAIK Sony charge for bandwidth so if you've got a successful demo it will cost you more. I don't think MS charge.

edit: that'll teach me not to read down the thread.
 
I would think, with Nintendo as desperate as they are for third parties to embrace the Wii U's online, that they would comp all costs for third parties.
 
lunchwithyuzo said:
Sony charges the publisher per MB for every download on PSN, be it a demo, dlc, game or patch, wether it's paid or free. It was part of their plan to get PSN into the black a couple years back. It's why the PS3 versions of SF4 don't have the dlc alternate costumes online unless you've paid for them, even if you're fighting someone who does, to name an example.

Microsoft doesn't charge anything, Gold subscribers basically subsidize those costs for everyone.

This is the first I'm hearing of Nintendo charging for demos.
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I see. I'd agree with Ace, but then again it wouldn't be the first time Nintendo foolishly let short-term profit get in the way of their long-term goals.
 
AceBandage said:
I would think, with Nintendo as desperate as they are for third parties to embrace the Wii U's online, that they would comp all costs for third parties.
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Exactly. If they are building it based on feedback, i refuse to believe any publisher is in support of paying for bandwidth like PSN.
 
specialguy said:
Give this man a cookie!

As far as I'm concerned, until "diminishing returns" is proven fact there's no reason to believe anything is different than the past.

In fact personally I've been proclaiming all along that the "next gen" leap if anything, will be bigger than ever. Two reasons: in past generations, high end incremental PC development continued alongside the consoles, "spoiling" next gen graphics before they got here. High end PC development has slowed or stopped drastically this generation though, most PC games are just console ports with a few bells and whistles added if you're lucky. So we haven't had next gen graphics spoiled for us yet, so the leap will be huge the way it has never been in history I believe.

Second reason is common sense, past gens were 5 or 6 years, this gen will be 7 or 8 years. A longer time between hardware means the jump naturally will be bigger just because of time.

Anyway, just look at Battlefield 3 PC footage, if next gen doesnt deliver anything beyond that (and I believe it will actually deliver far far beyond that) it's pretty much a next gen leap right there.

Or lets just look another way, do people honestly believe a console with 4GB, or even 8GB, of RAM, wont deliver games that are drastically better looking than todays consoles with 1/2 GB? It's not even possible, even ignoring the CPU and GPU (which obviously isn't the case).

But the easiest way to tell is just look at this thread, and how the Nintendo fans are spoiling for Wii U to have some serious horsepower under the hood. If it didn't matter, they wouldn't care.
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The answer to this entire post is no.

I would pretty much bet next consoles besides Wii U will be at least 10X more powerful. It would be hard to be otherwise. We're at 10X now PC GPU vs console GPU (at least). But we have still 1-2 more doubling of GPU power due before next consoles hit probably no earlier than 2013. AMD Southern Islands should be ~2x current AMD, and it's due fall 2011 for example. Then there should be one more generation/doubling by 2013 (2012 will be a "refresh" year). So by 2013, high end PC should be at 40X current console.

So yeah, if next consoles are using anything remotely up to date, 10X in 2013 would be a mid-range PC GPU at best. If anything my bet is on a greater than 10X leap.
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I have an exclusive picture of Sony's PS4:
d9a4b2df67g-farm.jpg-400x360.jpg
 
I'd like Nintendo to ship as built in software, various board games meant to be played solely on the tablet.

Can't wait to play some Chess with my old man after dinner, while drinking our fine coffee. In a high tech style.
 
specialguy said:
He meamns 3-4X, but I've noticed in past interviews Capps isn' the sharpest knife in the drawer, and he's a business strategy guy not a technical guy. Dont put much stock in a specific number he throws out.

I would pretty much bet next consoles besides Wii U will be at least 10X more powerful. It would be hard to be otherwise. We're at 10X now PC GPU vs console GPU (at least). But we have still 1-2 more doubling of GPU power due before next consoles hit probably no earlier than 2013. AMD Southern Islands should be ~2x current AMD, and it's due fall 2011 for example. Then there should be one more generation/doubling by 2013 (2012 will be a "refresh" year). So by 2013, high end PC should be at 40X current console.

So yeah, if next consoles are using anything remotely up to date, 10X in 2013 would be a mid-range PC GPU at best. If anything my bet is on a greater than 10X leap.
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I can't believe I missed this. Funniest shit I've ever read. You seriously think that GPU power double every year? What imaginary world do you live in?

Also, Southern Island was delayed to early 2012.
 
StevieP said:
The answer to this entire post is no.



I have an exclusive picture of Sony's PS4:
d9a4b2df67g-farm.jpg-400x360.jpg
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lol yeah, but seriously, it is true that casing size and cooling may be more of a hindrance in console hardware this generation than the power available in new/future GPUs and CPUs out there.

On a related note, how powerful is the chipset technology in the Samaritan video compared to the 360/Ps3?
 
lwilliams3 said:
lol yeah, but seriously, it is true that casing size and cooling may be more of a problem more a hindrance in console hardware this generation than the power available in new/future GPUs and CPUs out there.

On a related note, how powerful is the chipset technology in the Samaritan video compared to the 360/Ps3?
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Samaritan was running on 3 580s...
That would melt a normal computer case...
 
lwilliams3 said:
lol yeah, but seriously, it is true that casing size and cooling may be more of a problem more a hindrance in console hardware this generation than the power available in new/future GPUs and CPUs out there.

On a related note, how powerful is the chipset technology in the Samaritan video compared to the 360/Ps3?
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Three GTX 580s in SLI? Something like 20-25x as powerful, I'd wager.
 
I can't believe we're even discussing 580's, that kind of raw power won't be in consoles for another couple generations. Not that PC dev's are even making solid use of the power either...
 
How have you not hit member yet burntpork? You are so active in these threads.

Anyway, can someone explain to me the potential tech behind the wii u controller screen? Is lagless video like that still rare? How would a gpu tackle that kind of process? How do you think nintendo is doing it? What are the costs associated with it? What would it take, hardware wise, if any, for sony to make it work semi flawlessly for vita.

So many questions!
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
How have you not hit member yet burntpork? You are so active in these threads.

Anyway, can someone explain to me the potential tech behind the wii u controller screen? Is lagless video like that still rare? How would a gpu tackle that kind of process? How do you think nintendo is doing it? What are the costs associated with it? What would it take, hardware wise, if any, for sony to make it work semi flawlessly for vita.

So many questions!
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The Wii U is probably using some sort of proprietary wireless video, similar to wireless HDMI. It wouldn't take up more from the GPU than most dual screen set ups (less, actually, since it's so low res).

As for the Vita, it wouldn't take much. The PS3 and PSP could already do something similar. The problem is more that it'll be horribly under utilized (just like PS3->PSP), since not everyone will have both systems.
 
AceBandage said:
The Wii U is probably using some sort of proprietary wireless video, similar to wireless HDMI. It wouldn't take up more from the GPU than most dual screen set ups (less, actually, since it's so low res).

As for the Vita, it wouldn't take much. The PS3 and PSP could already do something similar. The problem is more that it'll be horribly under utilized (just like PS3->PSP), since not everyone will have both systems.
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Yeah, thats how i feel, which makes me roll my eyes at all the vita articles that talk about it.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
How have you not hit member yet burntpork? You are so active in these threads.

Anyway, can someone explain to me the potential tech behind the wii u controller screen? Is lagless video like that still rare? How would a gpu tackle that kind of process? How do you think nintendo is doing it? What are the costs associated with it? What would it take, hardware wise, if any, for sony to make it work semi flawlessly for vita.

So many questions!
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Does the "member status" require approval, or is it just an automatic thing?

Anyway, I'm sure the streaming itself will come at some cost (ms/memory wise) albeit not much. I'm actually really interested to know the specifics myself. But the actual hardware cost should be irrelevant at this point in time in terms of what the GPU/controller will support on chip, and being a essential function. Although, I'm sure we'll see some sorts of bugs/glitches associated with the streaming at some point.

As for Vita I doubt any real implementation will ever see daylight for actual games that sell. Nor will it be as integrated into the hardware and development, and won't be lag free.
 
TheExplodingHead said:
Does the "member status" require approval, or is it just an automatic thing?
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It's automatic. I think it's something like 200ish posts (which you've hit) AND 60 days as a junior (which you haven't yet)

Edit: considering Burnt Pork has been around since May and has 1k posts I'm guessing it's 90 days, not 60.
 
Hmm, I dunno.. not really expecting Wii U game announcements at TGS, I hope I'm wrong though.

Gaborn said:
It's automatic. I think it's something like 200ish posts (which you've hit) AND 60 days as a junior (which you haven't yet)
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Edit: Porky, has been here longer than 60 days though. I think
 
AceBandage said:
The Wii U is probably using some sort of proprietary wireless video, similar to wireless HDMI. It wouldn't take up more from the GPU than most dual screen set ups (less, actually, since it's so low res).

As for the Vita, it wouldn't take much. The PS3 and PSP could already do something similar. The problem is more that it'll be horribly under utilized (just like PS3->PSP), since not everyone will have both systems.
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Vita to PS3 streaming will be limited by Wireless G which means lower IQ and higher lag than the Wii U so it won't really be a comparable solution.
 
Gaborn said:
It's automatic. I think it's something like 200ish posts (which you've hit) AND 60 days as a junior (which you haven't yet)

Edit: considering Burnt Pork has been around since May and has 1k posts I'm guessing it's 90 days, not 60.
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No it's not automatic. The mods approve members in batches at the same time as they approve new Juniors.
 
Luigiv said:
No it's not automatic. The mods approve members in batches at the same time as they approve new Juniors.
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What? Whoever told you this is completely wrong.

From the FAQ:

If you are approved after successfully registering and verifying your email, you will begin as a Junior Member. This is a probationary period where you will be unable to start new threads and there are harsher penalties for breaking the ToS. Follow the rules, be civil, and try to contribute meaningfully to discussion and you will eventually be automatically upgraded to Member status.
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Evilore has said the specific milestone numbers in the past (I remember because he posted once when he raised the milestone you had to hit) but it wouldn't even make SENSE that they "approve" members like they do junior members, that's too much work for the mods. They spend enough time perma junioring and banning as it is!
 
Luigiv said:
Hmm, guess I was wrong. At the very least the automatic system is completely broken as it does like to take it's time recognising the 200 posts & 60 days milestone.
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It's probably 90 days as I said. Could be 250 posts as well, I'm honestly not sure of the specific number.
 
Gaborn said:
It's probably 90 days as I said. Could be 250 posts as well, I'm honestly not sure of the specific number.
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It was 200 and 60 when I was a junior and it still took the system an extra month after I reached it to upgrade me.
 
Many of you seem to think that it would be a complete disaster for Nintendo if the Wii U is just a nudge above PS3. I simply don't get you. I'd say that as long as the developers could quite easily program for the system then it won't matter one bit if it's "only" PS3 level. I still think that most PS3 games looks amazing! I mean just look at Uncharted 2 and Killzone 3. I highly doubt that I would think they will look like crap 5 years from now. Graphics is good enough nowadays, having things looking even better won't really matter to anyone but the graphics nerds that counts pixels and frames with programs instead of their eyes. It will be all about the gameplay next gen. The challenge for everyone will be to come up with new interesting ways to evolve the gameplay to next gen now that the graphics is at a level that the majority is okay with.
 
Fredrik said:
Many of you seem to think that it would be a complete disaster for Nintendo if the Wii U is just a nudge above PS3. I simply don't get you. I'd say that as long as the developers could quite easily program for the system then it won't matter one bit if it's "only" PS3 level. I still think that most PS3 games looks amazing! I mean just look at Uncharted 2 and Killzone 3. I highly doubt that I would think they will look like crap 5 years from now. Graphics is good enough nowadays, having things looking even better won't really matter to anyone but the graphics nerds that counts pixels and frames with programs instead of their eyes. It will be all about the gameplay next gen. The challenge for everyone will be to come up with new interesting ways to evolve the gameplay to next gen now that the graphics is at a level that the majority is okay with.
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On one hand I agree, but on the other, higher specs and higher ram also means less and less tricks to get good graphics on screen. Especially Killzone and Uncharted rely a lot on great design and tricks to hide the memory shortcomings of current consoles.

I'd say the biggest upgrade needed for new consoles is actually RAM. 4 GB should be mandatory for new consoles. Or at the very least 2GB.
 
boris feinbrand said:
On one hand I agree, but on the other, higher specs and higher ram also means less and less tricks to get good graphics on screen. Especially Killzone and Uncharted rely a lot on great design and tricks to hide the memory shortcomings of current consoles.

I'd say the biggest upgrade needed for new consoles is actually RAM. 4 GB should be mandatory for new consoles. Or at the very least 2GB.
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hmm..I always hear that console ram is alot more expensive that PC RAM, if thats the case, I reckon Wii U ram might be capped off at 1gb, 1.5 at most. Just a guess.
 
DaSorcerer7 said:
hmm..I always hear that console ram is alot more expensive that PC RAM, if thats the case, I reckon Wii U ram might be capped off at 1gb, 1.5 at most. Just a guess.
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Reasonable guess I'd say. I don't know why Console Ram would be more expensive than desktop RAM though. Lower power consumption requirements maybe?

Still 2 GB would be my personal wish for next gen consoles.
 
boris feinbrand said:
On one hand I agree, but on the other, higher specs and higher ram also means less and less tricks to get good graphics on screen. Especially Killzone and Uncharted rely a lot on great design and tricks to hide the memory shortcomings of current consoles.

I'd say the biggest upgrade needed for new consoles is actually RAM. 4 GB should be mandatory for new consoles. Or at the very least 2GB.
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That has always been the case, and will be for several generations to come too. But those who embrace the challenge of programming on hardware with locked specs usually do quite okay no matter what hardware they're programming for. So no worries from me.
Worst case scenario is that the only games that really shine on the Wii U are those made by Nintendo themselves. But aren't we kind of used to that already?
 
boris feinbrand said:
Reasonable guess I'd say. I don't know why Console Ram would be more expensive than desktop RAM though. Lower power consumption requirements maybe?

Still 2 GB would be my personal wish for next gen consoles.
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It's a completely different type of RAM that's faster and is low-latency. Usually, there's some type of ultra fast, low-power, mega-expensive RAM (1T-SRAM, eDRAM, XDR, etc.) making up a small portion of it, while rest is the type of RAM graphics cards use (GDDR3. GDDR5).
 
BurntPork said:
You're assuming that Nintendo knows this. Looking at 3DS, they have no clue.
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BurntPork said:
I've seen nothing that indicates that they're even considering making any new IPs in the near future.
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BurntPork said:
Oh, by the way, is it really true that Nintendo isn't allowing devs to put free demos on the eShop? Because if it is and they don't change that, they really are clueless and stuck in the past. I'm guessing it's because Nintendo has taken the horrible practice of expiring content and has no plans to enter the 21st century in that area.
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BurntPork said:
Whatever it takes to save a few cents. I was actually surprised that they even added HDMI.
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Stay classy.
 
No we don't!
It's Nintendo, it's not even gonna be as powerful as current gen, it'll just be a Wii that can output in 1080P.
Cause they're cheap and don't care about graphics, all they do is come up with retarded gimmicks.
Only soccer moms and grandmas play their shit, they need to stop rehashing Mario and Zelda and release something innovative like an FPS where you fight in a war.

And if they don't they're gonna end up like Sega, after the Wii U fails and they immediately announce another system to replace it which ALSO fails.
Right? RIGHT?
 
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