Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012

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bgassassin said:
Nintendo is picky about their clock speeds to the point of using specific numbers and those numbers are in multiples. GC (and supposedly Wii, supposedly since they weren't officially confirmed by Nintendo) had the CPU clock as a multiple of 3:1 to the GPU. Based on what was said I increased the multiple and as a foundation I went with a number of 6. I then started with a GPU clock 600Mhz. This would lead to a CPU at 3.6Ghz. But that is plain for Nintendo, so I applied the multiples in two ways: Wii U CPU to GPU ratio and Wii U to Wii. First if the Wii U were a multiple of Wii (like Wii supposedly is to GC, ) then I would see the Wii U as a 5:2.5 multiple of Wii. This would put the CPU at 3.645Ghz and the GPU at 607.5Mhz. Then from there that would put the Wii U CPU:GPU at an exact ratio of 6:1.
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Wii's clocks were fixed multiples of GC's clocks because that's the most natural thing to do when Wii's BC mode is essentially a down-clock.

There's no such known condition re WiiU and Wii. On the contrary, most people expect to see BC through emulation.
 
bgassassin said:
Eyefinity - Wii U is supposedly capable of supporting four controllers. Only the 5870 Eyefinity 6 and the 6750 and up natively support at least five screens. The 6670 can with DisplayPort 1.2 Multi-Stream Transport.
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Did I miss something? At E3 Nintendo wasn't even sure *2* touchscreen controllers would work with the hardware, and suddenly it's "capable of supporting four" of them?
 
******** said:
Having recently re-launched its official website, independent studio Nicalis has also updated its About Us section, seemingly confirming their new status as an official Wii U developer. The section describes the company as "licensed on most major platforms like Wii U, Nintendo 3DS, Sony PSP, iOS, OS X, Android and most everything else in between".

Nicalis is best known for releasing the critically acclaimed WiiWare version of Pixel's cult-hit Cave Story, as well as handling a DSiWare port (which hits Europe at the end of the year) and a 3DS remake (due out in November).

Nicalis is also handling a forthcoming WiiWare release of platformer La-Mulana. Its internally-developed ambient physics-puzzler NightSky was originally revealed as another WiiWare title, but is yet to materialise on Nintendo's service, instead releasing on Windows first.

We don't know what kind of download service Nintendo is preparing for Wii U, but if the likes of Nicalis are on board, we can only expect quality things.
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Can't post source, its a banned site I think
 
Dreamwriter said:
Did I miss something? At E3 Nintendo wasn't even sure *2* touchscreen controllers would work with the hardware, and suddenly it's "capable of supporting four" of them?
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Nintendos reason for being dodgy about more than one was clarified to be related to cost. AMDs press release made mention of multiple unit support for the Wii U GPU. AMDs tech for that is eyefinity so we know it could handle 4 but I doubt Nintendo will ever use it for that
 
TunaLover said:
Do you consider the unit size?
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You must think I'm BurntPork. :P

blu said:
Wii's clocks were fixed multiples of GC's clocks because that's the most natural thing to do when Wii's BC mode is essentially a down-clock.

There's no such known condition re WiiU and Wii. On the contrary, most people expect to see BC through emulation.
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You have a lot of intelligence and I enjoy taking from it, but you're not one of those who only posts to possibly correct people are you?

Besides it's just a reasoned out guess, however there's nothing known to confirm it will be software based as well. Most BC I've seen in the past was done through the hardware.

Dreamwriter said:
Did I miss something? At E3 Nintendo wasn't even sure *2* touchscreen controllers would work with the hardware, and suddenly it's "capable of supporting four" of them?
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LOL. You must have closed yourself off from Nintendo news after E3 since you didn't know about the pictures Wii U's backside either.

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/report-wii-u-can-stream-multiple-controllers

According to sources close to Japanese gaming website Game Watch - translated by Nintendo World Report - the Wii GPU, supplied by AMD, has two output modes, one of which supports the streaming of up to four "SD images".
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bgassassin said:
Just sharing my current view on the specs based on previous discussions and looking back on the first leaked specs.

CPU
Tri-core @ 3.645Ghz (not the PPE cores used in PS360)
16MB L2 cache

GPU
607.5 Mhz
640-800 SPUs

Memory
32MB of embedded 1T-SRAM-Q (like with Xenos' 10MB)
1.5GB of DDR3 memory

I'm sure you're wondering why the numbers are so exact. I don't expect those to be the exact final numbers, but it's to get an idea of what I think Nintendo might be trying to do. After discussing with someone else who seems to be in the know, I came up with these numbers based on what Nintendo has done in the past. To take from a post I made elsewhere I'm looking at it like this.



This is more in line with what we heard in the beginning. Obviously early dev kits aren't able to truly represent the final hardware, but they are an attempt at the target specs. These numbers look more like an early dev kit that has a CPU that "resembles an Xbox 360's CPU with faster clock speeds" and an R700 GPU (or 4830 to be exact), although as I posted earlier we already know some things that are being taken from other AMD GPUs.

I'm also on the APU bandwagon with a chip that might remind us of the XCGPU in the 360. One of those chips' design probably influenced the other.

I guess I better get to work now.
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Technical bird brain here.

Going by your educated guess on Wii U's specs, what kind of performance are we looking at here?

Like, how would this hold up in a comparison to games running on today's desktop computers? How close is it getting to BF3/Witcher 2/whatever looks best on PC at max settings, with or without AA, and at what resolution? What do you think it could pull off?
 
Boogybro said:
Technical bird brain here.

Going by your educated guess on Wii U's specs, what kind of performance are we looking at here?

Like, how would this hold up in a comparison to games running on today's desktop computers? How close is it getting to BF3/Witcher 2/whatever looks best on PC at max settings, with or without AA, and at what resolution? What do you think it could pull off?
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Don't feel bad. The last time I was heavy into PC tech talk was back when AMD was still making Slot A processors. Thanks to Wii U I've been trying to fill about a 10-year hole in knowledge the last few months. I still have a ways to go so my explanation will be simple.

I think it should at least be close thanks to the cache and 1T-SRAM. Wii U won't have the raw power like a high-end PC to throw around at things like AA, higher resolutions, etc. So to make up for this "shortcoming", they would implement these two things to help with the "bottlenecks" of the lower tech. For the GPU the 1T-SRAM would be used for the AA, higher resolution (compared to PS360 to be exact), etc. There have been at least a couple times where it was broken down as to how much eDRAM was needed to support certain resolutions that I can't remember off hand, but I want to say it was between 24-27MB. With the CPU the L2 cache would be needed to store the data that the CPU will access. You normally have smaller amounts of L2 cache so because it can't hold a lot of data, the CPU would then rely on the slower external memory (DDR3 in today's computers) to access the data. This will be why you'll hear some people talk about that memory being a bottleneck (it's deeper than that, but you get the picture). Thanks to IBM's process, large amounts of eDRAM can be implemented on the chip. This would reduce the dependency on the external memory and in turn increase the CPU's performance.

Then there are other things like the CPU being out-of-order as opposed to being in-order like the PS360 and possibilities like better memory controllers to increase the bandwidth for the external memory, current tessellation unit to make it easier for the games to be "pretty", and syncing the clocks like I mentioned earlier for efficiency.

Then finally it will depend on the developers. Wii U will be more powerful than PS360. It will depend on the developers to prove that. To give you a rough example since you mentioned Witcher 2. Here is a comparison of the 360 version with the PC version.

http://gamingbolt.com/witcher-2-xbox-360-vs-pc-screenshot-comparison

I don't know if that is on max settings, but again with the Wii U being more powerful than the 360 you can look at that comparison and possibly form an idea of how close Wii U would look.
 
You know I've been checking out Codemasters racers online in anticipation for Dirt and F1 on Wii U.

And as one of those little things that'd make me happy occasions, I'd love to see Sega Rally 3 perfectly ported to Wii U retail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzKoBYSSwFo

I know the game came to XBLA and PSN as Sega Rally Online by Sumo (3 and Revo were by Sega Racing Studio, now owned by Codemasters back in 2008).

I'd love it if Sumo did a pure copy & paste port in 1080p and 60 fps on Wii U and kept the name as Sega Rally 3. I love Sega and would love to see more of their Arcade classics.

Ghost Squad is epic (and hence I highly respect Polygon Magic for doing a nice job on the port from the Xbox-like Chihiro to Wii), and it's easy to see that Sega's still got that spark, shame it's not as close to home consoles these days.

But maybe that's due to arcades being the only kind of hardware they still sorta make on their own? They know the hardware, so it's kinda like reliving the glory days?

Speaking of Ghost Squad, we have our first look at Operation Ghost, but if this is in-game... then WTF?

http://www.segaarcade.com/operationghost

Looks barely better than the first. :/

And also, what has Sega Racing Studio done since being bought by Codemasters?
 
I like the cut of your jib. I would be down at least for Sega Rally. But it's been so long I hardly even remember playing it. I could use the refresher. :)


I came across a video on Youtube that had the Wii U portion of John Riccitiello's interview with Geoff Keighley back at E3. I would link it, but it has this annoying picture for what I guess is a watermark so I passed on that.

Here is the link from from Gametrailers.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-electronic-arts/715151

The Wii U portion starts at 5:45, but what was interesting is at around 7:30. Taking from what we know now as opposed to at E3, I think Riccitiello confirmed that EA will have games that support multiple Wii U controllers. Have a listen and tell me what you think. You might need to let it load a little to be able to skip to that part.

2-Player Madden!!!
 
It's amazing how time has passed like that. I still remember when it was first released and going to Best Buy to play the Rogue Leader demos.


In my focus about Riccitielo's comments I ended up not posting this sooner. Capcom says they might release a Wii U version of Asura's Wrath if there is enough demand.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_cap...635/Asuras_Wrath_PC_or_WII_U_versions?pg=last

So I take it this game is the Hindu version of God of War? Don't know how well that will go since I haven't seen much talk about it for PS360.

Gameplay videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pGnzQ8dB30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJJOTeZcAzQ
 
bgassassin said:
It's amazing how time has passed like that. I still remember when it was first released and going to Best Buy to play the Rogue Squadron demos.


In my focus about Riccitielo's comments I ended up not posting this sooner. Capcom says they might release a Wii U version of Asura's Wrath if there is enough demand.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_cap...635/Asuras_Wrath_PC_or_WII_U_versions?pg=last

So I take it this game is the Hindu version of God of War? Don't know how well that will go since I haven't seen much talk about it for PS360.

Gameplay videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pGnzQ8dB30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJJOTeZcAzQ
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stupid-fry.jpg
 
LOL @BP. I'm in the same boat as the two of you on this.

I think the comment from Riccitielo is the most important thing. In fact he kinda stuttered when he said it so I kinda get the feeling he wasn't planning on saying what he did.
 
AceBandage said:
Is there even enough demand for that game to appear on the PS3/360?
I haven't even heard of it...
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I've seen a trailer it looks very strange. Capcom is full of shit, if they are already making excuses about the WiiU they just need to stop making games period there was no need for this kind of tease.
 
In my opinion, most of the rumors and even opinions are too much influence by xbox360 specs. It seems like we are putting our minds in a small box.. :)

I think we need to understand, Nintendo is the oldest in this business and have learned from their experiences and always come up with one of the best optimize hardware. They are already aware of upcoming technology for future. they will come with a competitive hardware which can run compatible engines, Wii situation has taught them well. And do remember, Nintendo always use modest way of expressing technology not like real marketing champs from Sony (PS2 can do 100+million polygons..) and Xbox..

I think if we look at the trends, we will not be getting leap like we got for ps2 to ps3 level in the coming generation. Now for the comparison of technology in last 5 years time, as you can see Witcher 2 posted by bgassassin. Eventhough PC has new effects over xbox360 but its not huge leap. Most probably, next generation graphics on all consoles will look similar. The main thing will be something extra...but may not be graphics

Regarding support for WiiU, seriously it all depends on us. We are the one who makes the product success ofcourse if there are reasonable software. Some of the Wii games didn't sell well eventhough games were fun but basically we didn't buy it..

Any expert here can comment on Bird/Eagle demo (the one available for people to try during the E3) by looking at the effects because I think it can give some idea about technology level (in its early form).
 
Majine said:
I think the Wii U console itself is so boring. Wish they could go back to something like this.

gamecube.png


Man, look at that thing. Fucking awesome.
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Yeah man, I mean, why not release it in the same case and shit. Gamecube failed but it couldn't possibly have had anything to do with the aesthetic.
 
bgassassin said:
It's amazing how time has passed like that. I still remember when it was first released and going to Best Buy to play the Rogue Leader demos.


In my focus about Riccitielo's comments I ended up not posting this sooner. Capcom says they might release a Wii U version of Asura's Wrath if there is enough demand.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_cap...635/Asuras_Wrath_PC_or_WII_U_versions?pg=last

So I take it this game is the Hindu version of God of War? Don't know how well that will go since I haven't seen much talk about it for PS360.

Gameplay videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pGnzQ8dB30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJJOTeZcAzQ
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ they deserve whatever happens to them.

I mean, really?
 
Willy105 said:
Seeing and playing Rogue Leader on a store kiosk for the first time was an amazing experience.
Click to expand...
It's pretty cool to think that kids these days will have that same experience with Star Wars Kinect.

BUUAHAHAHAHAHAH

Gravijah said:
why would capcom cancel a game?
Click to expand...
Because fans don't like it enough and they pay their employees with bitter tears.
 
Gravijah said:
why would capcom cancel a game?
Click to expand...
'Capcom's Five' this gen:

1. Mega Man Legends 3
2. ...
3. ...
4. ...
5. ...
 
bgassassin said:
In my focus about Riccitielo's comments I ended up not posting this sooner. Capcom says they might release a Wii U version of Asura's Wrath if there is enough demand.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/ask_cap...635/Asuras_Wrath_PC_or_WII_U_versions?pg=last
Click to expand...

Ohhh fuck you Capcom. I'm so sick of your stupid little tests. Plus your output this gen has been fucking dog shit (sorry I know alot of people love their stuff this gen I don't). What happened to you Capcom, you used to be so awesome.
 
bgassassin said:
You have a lot of intelligence and I enjoy taking from it, but you're not one of those who only posts to possibly correct people are you?
Click to expand...
Nah, but I can't think of anything else to post here which would be remotely on-topic.

Besides it's just a reasoned out guess, however there's nothing known to confirm it will be software based as well. Most BC I've seen in the past was done through the hardware.
Click to expand...
I'm willing to bet you a wii(U)ware gift that Flipper will be emulated on WiiU ; )
 
Speaking of Operation Ghost, I had another idea.

Since the game looks barely better than the original, maybe Sega can put both Operation Ghost and Ghost Squad Evolution onto one Wii U disc and call it the Ghost Arcade Collection or something.

1080p and 60fps, even if Polygon Magic do it instead of AM2, I think they can pull it off.

I've been trying to find Evolution vids, and I barely see any improvement over the original, even though Evolution is on the Lindburgh.

Ghost Squad did really well IIRC on Wii, which is why House of the Dead 2&3 followed and then last year the Gunblade NY and LA Machineguns collection came out. How did the latter do?
 
So other than Madden, what other EA games would benefit from multi-controller support? I can see two-player PGA Tour where each player has his/her own view of their golf ball's position.

usmanusb said:
In my opinion, most of the rumors and even opinions are too much influence by xbox360 specs. It seems like we are putting our minds in a small box.. :)

I think we need to understand, Nintendo is the oldest in this business and have learned from their experiences and always come up with one of the best optimize hardware. They are already aware of upcoming technology for future. they will come with a competitive hardware which can run compatible engines, Wii situation has taught them well. And do remember, Nintendo always use modest way of expressing technology not like real marketing champs from Sony (PS2 can do 100+million polygons..) and Xbox..

I think if we look at the trends, we will not be getting leap like we got for ps2 to ps3 level in the coming generation. Now for the comparison of technology in last 5 years time, as you can see Witcher 2 posted by bgassassin. Eventhough PC has new effects over xbox360 but its not huge leap. Most probably, next generation graphics on all consoles will look similar. The main thing will be something extra...but may not be graphics

Regarding support for WiiU, seriously it all depends on us. We are the one who makes the product success ofcourse if there are reasonable software. Some of the Wii games didn't sell well eventhough games were fun but basically we didn't buy it..

Any expert here can comment on Bird/Eagle demo (the one available for people to try during the E3) by looking at the effects because I think it can give some idea about technology level (in its early form).
Click to expand...

I think that's because the first rumors compared the Wii U to the 360 and it's kinda become the development standard for current consoles. I pretty much agree with the rest.

[Nintex] said:
It's pretty cool to think that kids these days will have that same experience with Star Wars Kinect.

BUUAHAHAHAHAHAH
Click to expand...

I laughed at this more than I probably should have.

blu said:
Nah, but I can't think of anything else to post here which would be remotely on-topic.


I'm willing to bet you a wii(U)ware gift that Flipper will be emulated on WiiU ; )
Click to expand...

LOL. I disagree with that since this is a speculation thread. I think you'd be able to contribute a lot of on-topic stuff especially with the hardware.

I wouldn't take that bet. :P I'm going mainly on past BC.
 
I guess id Tech finally had a company discussion.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6461/carmack_on_rage.php?page=4

We talked about the consoles that Rage is coming out for. Are you interested in the Wii and 3DS? Did you see the new Wii U?

JC: I haven't been over there yet. You know, interestingly I have a six-year-old son now. The only games I play at home are Wii and DS games. I'm an old-school Mario fan, and all that. I don't play the hardcore shooters. Some of that is because, when you see how the sausage is made, you're not quite as excited about that. I kind of like the pure and simple games because I don't have ten hours over the weekend to spend gaming, but I do have fun sitting down and playing simple things.

Many, many years ago, we had negative experiences with Nintendo, but the only reason we're not doing anything with Nintendo now is just that the technologies are out of sync. It's a perfect opportunity to do PC, 360, PS3, but you couldn't have the same content base also targeting the Wii. But, you know, the new platform is probably just right there. It would probably be straightforward to target our stuff over there. It would depend on what the business case is for any of that.
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Seems almost like a 180 from the other interview. Carmack sounds more like Hollenshead now.

Carmack from a little while back said:
"It should be a slam dunk to move over to Tech 5 games on there. We haven’t had that discussion yet as a company, but it seems technically like it’s a valid target, so I’m always happy to go ahead and get a new box in and see what it takes to bring it up and see the pros and cons of the choices they made. I think they probably made a fairly intelligent decision with the Wii U," Carmack continued.
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Hollenshead said:
"I haven't really had a chance to sit down with [John] Carmack about it, because it's his opinion that matters. From what Nintendo is saying, [the Wii U] looks interesting, but it still remains to be seen how it fits within how id Tech 5 would run on it, is the audience right for us to develop games on that platform."
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We should be really excited for Wii U. It's the first time since 1999-2001 that Nintendo will be getting an all-new GPU into a console. I'm really excited to see Nintendo games in HD with shaders.
 
Lovely Salsa said:
Is anyone really excited about Wii U? I'm having a hard time getting hyped

It just seems like a console that should've been released 5 years ago
Click to expand...

I would be more excited if there was simply more information. They announced it and then went silent. Once we start getting more information, then I think I'll be more excited about the Wii U.
 
herzogzwei1989 said:
We should be really excited for Wii U. It's the first time since 1999-2001 that Nintendo will be getting an all-new GPU into a console. I'm really excited to see Nintendo games in HD with shaders.
Click to expand...

I was sitting daydreaming on the train last night, thinking just what traditional Nintendo franchises could look like on this thing. My mind got stuck on Star Fox and thoughts of the box art characters in their HD shadered glory.

ntropy said:
what are the "negative experiences" Carmack's referring to?
Click to expand...

I believe he's referring to the SNES version of Wolfenstein 3D and Nintendo's various censorship demands (although I could be mistaken).
 
herzogzwei1989 said:
We should be really excited for Wii U. It's the first time since 1999-2001 that Nintendo will be getting an all-new GPU into a console. I'm really excited to see Nintendo games in HD with shaders.
Click to expand...

Yeah. That half-jump with "recycled" components in the Wii makes the Wii U more compelling to me to see what we get from it. I really look forward to seeing how the 1st party games translate.

herzogzwei1989 said:
It's a shame that Carmack is basicly giving the cold shoulder to the Wii U.
Click to expand...

I want to know why exactly has his excitement changed. It comes off like others in the company talked him down some.
 
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