Lupin the Third
Member
Technically, "1GB+" does not mean ">1GB", it means "1GB or more."
Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
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Technically, "1GB+" does not mean ">1GB", it means "1GB or more."
Sales of games aimed specifically at the 'core' gamers don't reflect that. Nintendo's core pushes like Metroid: Other M bombed and new ideas like Kid Icarus don't seem to get much attention. In that sense franchises like Halo and Gears perform much better not to mention that games like COD sell on 360 like on no other platform and titles like Bioshock sold well enough on just the 360 to turn them into franchises.
With the way they designed and marketed the latest Zelda I'm not sure if it's even labeled as a 'core' title. It seems to be a bridge game that leans towards the core but Zelda is the most clear example that Nintendo's strategy of trying to make all their games for 'everyone' is not working for certain franchises. I can't really blame them however given what sells on the Wii(Just Dance, Wii Fit, Mario Kart) and what doesn't(Metroid) and having a hard time thinking about other specific core games from the last 2 years that aren't niche like Sin & Punishment 2 or Metroid kinda underlines this problem.
No. My GPU has ~1.25 GB, for example. Depends on the number of RAM modules the system will use, each of one goes on powers of two.
No. That's pretty much what Nintendo's been doing.
It's really not that hard to make a console capable of running a non-gimped version of COD, Ass Creed, Madden, Fifa, Battlefield and all the other high selling dudebro games. But Nintendo likes dat money. Even if the gap between Wii U and PS4/720 is closer than Wii and PS3/360, there will presumably still be that gap. And as long as there's that gap, the stigma will remain that Nintendo has "shit graphics" and the dudebros will ignore it.
Yeah, but wouldn't 250MB DDR3 sticks cost more than 500MB DDR3 sticks?
If so, it's not really feasible to have 1.25 or 1.75GB of total RAM.
Not even a heavily customized one?
Japanese franchises will do just as much with them as they did this gen: shit. They only want shooters, shooters, and more shooters. Unless the next Zelda has the Master Assault Rifle as its main weapon, Nintendo needs western third-parties.
Not even a heavily customized one?
Japanese franchises will do just as much with them as they did this gen: shit. They only want shooters, shooters, and more shooters. Unless the next Zelda has the Master Assault Rifle as its main weapon, Nintendo needs western third-parties.
Then the gaming industry will just collapse. It is as simple as that.
brain_stew
Member
We're talking about more than $100 million saved over the lifetime of the console at a minimum.
Halving the bus width means you can design much simpler motherboards in the future, your silicon is smaller and you can use fewer RAM chips going forward. That DDR3 chips are cheaper in the here and now doesn't really matter. RAM prices change drastically over time (and DDR3 will become more expensive within the Wii U's lifetime) and demand for GDDR5 its only increasing atm.
The one thing holding back the use of GDDR5 is the lack of availability of 4Gb chips atm. So Nintendo would have to ship a console with more than 4 RAM chips at launch if they want more than 1GB.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Metroid has never been a huge series anyways.[Nintex];33371022 said:
What makes Halo or COD more "core" than Zelda? What makes the most recent Zelda not "core"?
I mean there are just so many issues with silly stereotypes formed over time from the gaming media that I don't even know where to start. S&P is about the nichest title ever, do you think that it would have done well on any other consoles? Along with Metroid never actually being a huge franchise, why would you think Other M, which had a universally lukewarm response, would do well?
Also, what in the fuck is a "core" gamer? What does it mean to be core, and why should games be directed at those who are "core"? Are you insinuating that games like Gears, COD and Halo are harder to get into or something? Because that goes exactly against partly why these titles have such huge market penetration; they are very easy games to get into.
I just don't fucking get this "core" gamer/game BS. It takes a lot of intellectual gymnastics to even get close to justifying any of it.
Aaawwwww...
Drastically underpowered confirmed. Wii situation is go.Also, this looks shit:
Drop the curvy, fat design and give it edges, Nintendo. I liked the Wii's angularity.
You really cannot think of console RAM like desktop PC RAM sticks.
AceBandage
Banned
Aaawwwww...
Also, this looks shit:
Drop the curvy, fat design and give it edges, Nintendo. I liked the Wii's angularity.
Oh, you must be a PC gamer.
Well, in this case the console RAM is similar to desktop PC RAM, I assume the sticks are just soldered on somehow rather than plugged into slots but I don't see what a 250MB one would be cheaper than a 500MB one.
Erm, no... I just liked the Wii's angularity. Pretty straightforward.
If it's any conciliation, I like the 360's design. But guess what! I prefer the slim's design.
*edit* forget all that, I get the reference... now I see the link! Oh EC, you so crazy.
AceBandage
Banned
Well, I don't think it was EC who said it originally, but it was the best I could find.
Aaawwwww...
Also, this looks shit:
Drop the curvy, fat design and give it edges, Nintendo. I liked the Wii's angularity.
Looks better than the original Wii. Blocky as shit.
brain_stew
Member
Depends entirely on the width of the memory controller and the density of the RAM modules you're using.
I never said it wasn't 1GB either, in fact that would still be the most safe assumption imo.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I'm okay with the design.
It could be bulkier to make hardware more powerful and porting easier.
I mean to be honest it wouldn't really bother me another Wii like situation. It had a lot of pretty damn good games. And I could always buy one of the others. It's just irritating to see this paranoid mantra of the industry hates Nintendo given weight.
It could be bulkier to make hardware more powerful and porting easier.
I mean to be honest it wouldn't really bother me another Wii like situation. It had a lot of pretty damn good games. And I could always buy one of the others. It's just irritating to see this paranoid mantra of the industry hates Nintendo given weight.
It's a pile of problems that they have to adress however, out of my head for Wii these were the main issues according to third parties:
- Graphics/Power(brought up by Epic/Take Two/Capcom)
- Online features(brought up by EA/Activision)
- Control schemes(brought up by Capcom/Square Enix)
- DLC(brought up by EA/Ubisoft)
- No first party core games to build up core userbase(brought up by Grasshopper)
Other than that there's still a bunch of other factors that might've played a smaller role like Nintendo's publishing/production policy(but this mostly relates to handhelds), developer support, no programmable shaders, lack of moneyhats, bomba's on other Nintendo systems, Nintendo keeping too many secrets etc.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I'm okay with the curvy look to the Wii U but I really doubt it will look like that at E3 2012
bgassassin
Member
The POWER7 itself was too big to be used directly anyway. That doesn't mean the CPU can't use cores based on POWER7.
But I would take the rumors saying it would back in March over the assumption they were forced due to April leaks.
But I would take the rumors saying it would back in March over the assumption they were forced due to April leaks.
AceBandage
Banned
In what sense, exactly?
As I stated, there were rumors that the reveal for 2011 was only to show off the features of the console. That did happen. Next E3 they will reveal the games. It makes complete sense, especially if specs were not final.
Nintendo wouldn't last minute reveal the WiiU just because of some leaks. The leaks probably occurred because they were about to reveal the WiiU, more people would have to know about it.
Whether or not people feel the initial reveal was botched, matters not, because confusion about what the console is about is long gone.
Woah woah, slow down there partner. I'm only saying that Nintendo doesn't cater to the modern core gamers who play games like Assassins Creed/Halo/Uncharted/Call of Duty etc. they aim their games at families. The Zelda commercial shows it, the father played Zelda as a teenager in high school and now there's a game that he can play with his 6/8 year old son. I'm not making this is up, it's their marketing message! Here's an Iwata Asks on the subject: http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/zelda-skyward-sword/6/5
Nintendo aims their games at families because those are buying the Wii right now, there's nothing bad or good about it it's simply an observation. The other observation is that Nintendo has said at E3 that the Wii U is designed for the core market but they have yet to develop or publish/secure for example a succesful online multiplayer shooter. Which is kinda strange since they were fairly quick to jump on the Monster Hunter-train in Japan which is aimed at a very specific group of core gamers.
As for the terms you might not like it but Nintendo is using them all the time. Saying that game systems had become too complex for newcomers and they wanted that group back into gaming as well. A noble effort that has certainly grown the market but it also meant that their own fanbase felt kinda left out during parts of the Wii's lifecycle. In fact the Wii U name is based on this, at E3 Reggie said that: 'some of you felt' (the core gamers in the audience) ' Wii is not for me' they revealed it as a system that would not only be used by families or in a multiplayer environment but would also offer deep and rich gameplay experiences for gamers mostly playing alone both online and offline. That's where the name comes from "Wii U" a "Wii for You".
Nintendo was also one of the first publishers who made packaging to show a difference between 'core' and 'casual' games with labels like Touch Generations! . It was made so people who were new to gaming knew what type of games they should buy.
So that's why I don't get why Nintendo fans feel I guess.. offended(?) or annoyed when this is brought up because in reality Nintendo actively split their product line in what they called 'core games', 'casual games' and 'bridge games' like Mario Kart.
Aaawwwww...
Also, this looks shit:
Drop the curvy, fat design and give it edges, Nintendo. I liked the Wii's angularity.
This shit looks like a $10 dvd player.
Wii looks way better.
I can't help but feel Nintendo weren't too sure about E3 and revelling the console. Maybe they were forced to what with the rumours and 'leaks'?
Think of Iwata, Miyamoto and Reggie tied together and stood on a diving board (bare with me). Reggie's like,
"WOO YEAH WII U LESSDODIS", and full on jumps in - Miyamoto's ragged in, but screams in a reluctant tone,
"NO REGGIE, I DON'T THINK WE'RE READY!", but is dragged in anyway. Iwata panics and cries,
"We're NOT ready!" and digs his feet in, stopping him falling.
Now we have Reggie swimming about, Miyamoto half submerged, feet waving in the air, and Iwata stood firm, looking uneasy.
There, E3 2012 in a bizarre metaphorical synopsis.
Think of Iwata, Miyamoto and Reggie tied together and stood on a diving board (bare with me). Reggie's like,
"WOO YEAH WII U LESSDODIS", and full on jumps in - Miyamoto's ragged in, but screams in a reluctant tone,
"NO REGGIE, I DON'T THINK WE'RE READY!", but is dragged in anyway. Iwata panics and cries,
"We're NOT ready!" and digs his feet in, stopping him falling.
Now we have Reggie swimming about, Miyamoto half submerged, feet waving in the air, and Iwata stood firm, looking uneasy.
There, E3 2012 in a bizarre metaphorical synopsis.
Since the video they showed and published starts out with the title: "The Controller" I'm fairly convinced that they also had videos: "The Console", "The UI" that they decided not to show because Nintendo is known to pull stuff from E3 that they feel is not ready for prime time. I was convinced of this when they didn't have the box on stage at E3 but released a picture of the console like minutes after the keynote in a press kit.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
What is a core gamer.[Nintex];33371645 said:
I just don't like those terms because, even if Nintendo is using them, they're still just marketing buzzwords and don't actually mean anything. After the backlash at E3 08 and 09, did you think they were going to continue the odd trend of pushing the idea of "gaming for everyone" at a primarily young male focused event? I'm not suprised they reverted to the whole "core" gamer thing after that.
So yeah I would agree that Nintendo sells their titles to the everyone demographic rather than the teenager/mid 20's male demographic, and the sales show that as well, bu I just get a little frustrated when people say they don't have "core" titles or whatever. "Core" doesn't mean anything.
I am in no way offended by these terms, and its got nothing to do with Nintendo. I just get sick of the high school like mentality so many gamers have about games (especially on this board, a place where civil discussion is pretty commonplace), whether it be hating on "dudebro games", hating on "casual" games etc. People seemed to be threatened that others may be enjoying their hobby and get defensive and start labeling things with pejoratives.
Not saying that's what you were doing but I read enough of it on these boards to get easily ticked.
AceBandage
Banned
I don't know what to believe in anymore. :lol
Is this more of a "stop saying Power7 specifically" post or a "stop thinking the derivative for the console is based off Power7" post?
CoffeeJanitor
Member
man what a great intro. Having played SOTN for the first time this year, the intro was probably my most vivid memory.
AceBandage
Banned
It'll be a Power Architecture CPU, as has been confirmed by IBM themselves.
The Power7 came from them saying it would be using something similar to the chips in the "Watson" computer.
It'll obviously be it's own Power based chip, and not exactly a Power7.
I figured as much. I just hate that instead of getting clearer, things are starting to get more hazy regarding the system. It's hard to solidly put out ideas of what the console is when every other thing gets put in a "kinda/I guess/maybe" state only a little bit after reaching confidence in.
From what I understand, POWER7 as a whole I know has elements that are way advanced for a console, so stripping those might result in the custom chip for next gen. Is that correct? Also just for self-education's sake, what are those elements and what do they usually do on the silicon?
On another note, I must be the only one here who prefers the Wii U console look. :lol
I just like the rounded edges.
For a slightly higher cost, or more likely a bit less profit they could have hit some minimal baseline that got them into Hd or more usefully, modern shaders. The game would have been so different then.
If the Last of Us is truly realtime, that's damned impressive. Thankfully most p60 games dont look like that so Wii U games should look noticeably different.
That would be totally shithouse. Seven more months of this thread in its current form would be unbearable
AceBandage
Banned
I figured as much. I just hate that instead of getting clearer, things are starting to get more hazy regarding the system. It's hard to solidly put out ideas of what the console is when every other thing gets put in a "kinda/I guess/maybe" state only a little bit after reaching confidence in.
From what I understand, POWER7 as a whole I know has elements that are way advanced for a console, so stripping those might result in the custom chip for next gen. Is that correct? Also just for self-education's sake, what are those elements and what do they usually do on the silicon?
On another note, I must be the only one here who prefers the Wii U console look. :lol
I just like the rounded edges.
The only thing I know for sure is that the most advantageous part of the Power7 is the large amount of eDRAM. Which the Wii U apparently has. Other than that, I'm not sure.
AzaK said:That would be totally shithouse. Seven more months of this thread in its current form would be unbearable
Oh, we're already well past that point.
But I mean, there's always leaks!
Fourth Storm
Member
My apologies. I should have been more specific when I said "custom." I think the GPU will resemble the rv770LE in core configuration, but it will def have a 128 bit bus to go with the GDDR5. And I don't think the tesselation capabilities will exceed that series of cards.
As for the size, we pretty much know Nintendo is designing this as a low power system. If the GPU is 28nm and technically a low power part (if clock speed is kept to about 500-600 Mhz) then it should not be a problem. Yes, the CPU is 45nm but it's also highly optimized for low power. And forget the Power7 hyperbole. The cores will likely resemble those in design but some things will be stripped entirely(L3 cache) and since each core will be only two way smt, that should reduce the necessary logic. And while the Gamecube was an entirely different era of parts and a dif console shape, I still believe Nintendo's engineers have a knack for console design. It was already discussed that despite the somewhat small volume of the WiiU case, the
increased surface area will help disipate a decent amount of heat. So I may be slightly optimistic, but if those dev kits leaks are to be believed, there are only so many ways they can go.
Sorry if this reads poorly btw. Laptop took a dump so I'm on my cell phone. :/
That would be totally shithouse. Seven more months of this thread in its current form would be unbearable
Don't worry, we'll reach 20k well before that.
I think you're blind. The original Wii is ugly and uninspired, especially compared to Nintendo's rich design heritage which has iconic designs such as the original NES, N64, original Gameboy and the Gamecube. The Wii looks like a generic fax/modem/router to me.Aaawwwww...
Also, this looks shit:
Drop the curvy, fat design and give it edges, Nintendo. I liked the Wii's angularity.
It's been a while, so I might be wrong, but as far as I remember, GDDR is actually far worse than DDR, latency wise. It's just that GPUs have the inherent ability to hide latency, which is why it looks better on paper - even though it's actually terrible and very much unsuited for main memory (don't point at the Xbox360, that's actually a terrible design - it's better than PS3, which isn't saying much). And that's supoosedly also why the Wii uses the 1T-SRAM (MEM1) as it's main memory even though both memory pools have the same bandwidth.
Fourth Storm
Member
Yeah, I really need a major specs leak before then at least. But the 2 tablet addition helps put my heart at ease somewhat. Also, wasn't there a patent for the gpu that showed capabilities for up to 4 different ouptuts?
I'm also in the camp that believes AMD held back in their press release this E3. Next year we will see actual graphics from real games and it will be a good time to brag about things like "all this on low power 28nm." the 32 eDRAM (possibly 1t-sram)may not have been mentioned in order to allow IBM to highlight their own eDRAM tech this past year.
I'm also in the camp that believes AMD held back in their press release this E3. Next year we will see actual graphics from real games and it will be a good time to brag about things like "all this on low power 28nm." the 32 eDRAM (possibly 1t-sram)may not have been mentioned in order to allow IBM to highlight their own eDRAM tech this past year.
If only they could go with an all 1T-SRAM design like they did with the Gamecube. Then use a smaller pool of DDR for non critical stuff like audio -> like 768MB SRAM, 256MB DDR.
That would be totally shithouse. Seven more months of this thread in its current form would be unbearable
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I think the console and the controller we've seen look cheap as hell. The controller looks like one of those really cheap 40 dollar tablets they sell at Fisher Price, and the console like someone said looks like some sort of cheap ass DVD player you'd buy at one of those technology stores with names like "Pear electronics" or "Computers N Tingz".
Also I lol'd at brain_stew coming in to shit on everyone's optimism with some realism. And by lol'd I mean I frowned
Also I lol'd at brain_stew coming in to shit on everyone's optimism with some realism. And by lol'd I mean I frowned
Fourth Storm
Member
What would be some possible bus widths, speeds, etc if they went with ddr3? Wasn't ddr3 a rumor at one point too?
Also, if the gpu's edram was on a separate chip like in the 360, would it be possible for the CPU to access via it's own (slower) bus? Would that help for backwards compatability?
I do not think Nintendo will spend a lot to make it look shiny on the outside.
Ant the controller, what do you expect, most probably its price is around 50$-100$. It is a controller, not an 500$ Ipad
-Pyromaniac-
Member
For your first point, I thought the Wii actually looked really slick. In fact it's probably the slickest looking of the 3 consoles this generation, whereas the Wii-U in the form we've seen it looks uhhh :/
I know it won't be like an iPad, I'm not dumb, but it's just the colour, and the layout, and the shape, it just looks cheap-ish. But that's the nature of the beast on that one I guess.
The type of RAM isn't really the issue anyway. There are many buzzwords, but in the end, it always comes down to bus width and clock speed. No solution is inherently faster, they all have strengths and drawbacks of some kind. I already wrote this a while ago, but a real, full blown POWER7 uses plain old DDR3, not even the fastest type of DDR3 available, and still blows pretty much any modern graphic card out of the water when it comes to bandwidth and latency. Simply because they use an insanely wide bus. And that's without accounting for trickery like NUMA, which POWER7 supports as well.
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