Windows 8 Release Preview

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giga said:
Eh? Most apps are retina now so it's not a problem.

Photoshop and other professional software will likely never be ported to Metro because that environment has very strict limitations with what an app can do compared to the desktop. You'll likely see watered down versions like Photoshop Touch on iOS/Android. As for Metro-like scaling in the desktop--that's up to Microsoft to decide.
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That is sort of the point I was making though - regarding retina - earlier. While an integer based scaling algorithm is certainly better than a 1.25x one, eventually the apps were updated to fix the issue on iOS, so I don't see why they wouldn't be on Windows either. Hopefully Microsoft is indeed allowing usage of winRT/metro DPI scaling API's in the desktop environment.

Those issues plague Microsoft UI elements as well, even though they do scale, everywhere I've seen so far, some things need more than 125% for touch, but main in your face things might be fine at 125%. They do have their work to do even on their own stuff still.

I think we both see it as a potential major problem, but I'm more thinking that it is a older/poorly programmed programs issue. My tablet screen is not even *that* high DPI and still some things are incredibly small (I can keep them small or I can use the XP scaling option which blurs them - 1.25x on what ends up being interpreted as just images to the OS. Like you said. Bad. Bad. Bad.)

I may just stick Photoshop or Lightroom on this tablet to see how they look!
 
Thought I'd post some more quirks/issues I have as well, these seem to me Beta type things at least.

Someone mentioned this on the previous page. When you log in you have that fancy screen that swipes upwards. But to type your password you have to press 'ppassword' like the example he gave. It is actually even worse than that because if you have a large screen it takes longer for the lockscreen to swipe up! So you have to wait even longer.

I am also having issues with the touch screen keyboard. (It sometimes randomly changes which type comes on by default on bootup, but that's another thing)
For example... If I mistype a word in MetroIE, I can tap it to correct it, and it highlights the word. But it's not a real highlight, it's more just displaying that that's the word I am selecting. So if I start retyping it entirely, it does not type over the word, it simply appends to it, same with deleting/backspace, it does not do anything.

I also wrote it earlier but the fact I ca not tap and highlight any word, correctly spelled or not is annoying. Plenty of words are very similar and sometimes you have a typo and it's a real word but there's no way to tap and correct it anyway. Windows Phone does not exhibit this behavior.

I know it isn't Metro-Y, but they need a somewhat translucent keyboard screen keyboard in Desktop mode...
 
joshschw said:
That is sort of the point I was making though - regarding retina - earlier. While an integer based scaling algorithm is certainly better than a 1.25x one, eventually the apps were updated to fix the issue on iOS, so I don't see why they wouldn't be on Windows either. Hopefully Microsoft is indeed allowing usage of winRT/metro DPI scaling API's in the desktop environment.

Those issues plague Microsoft UI elements as well, even though they do scale, everywhere I've seen so far, some things need more than 125% for touch, but main in your face things might be fine at 125%. They do have their work to do even on their own stuff still.

I think we both see it as a potential major problem, but I'm more thinking that it is a older/poorly programmed programs issue. My tablet screen is not even *that* high DPI and still some things are incredibly small (I can keep them small or I can use the XP scaling option which blurs them - 1.25x on what ends up being interpreted as just images to the OS. Like you said. Bad. Bad. Bad.)

I may just stick Photoshop or Lightroom on this tablet to see how they look!
Click to expand...
See that's the thing. The new Windows 8 scaling method for Metro style apps is a ton better than what we have now in Windows 7 for win32/legacy apps. It actually has a system in place with set scales (100, 140%, 180%) that can dynamically load higher res artwork in the app package. These aren't integer scales (so you can get pixel shifting for layouts that don't conform to every 5px on the grid) but it's better than nothing.

That sort of scaling stuff isn't there for legacy apps. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I actually don't think it's for all Windows 8 systems period. The MSDN doc only references slates and I can't seem to find a way to change the setting in my install.
 
giga said:
See that's the thing. The new Windows 8 scaling method for Metro style apps is a ton better than what we have now in Windows 7 for win32/legacy apps. It actually has a system in place with set scales (100, 140%, 180%) that can dynamically load higher res artwork in the app package. These aren't integer scales (so you can get pixel shifting for layouts that don't conform to every 5px on the grid) but it's better than nothing.

That sort of scaling stuff isn't there for legacy apps. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I actually don't think it's for all Windows 8 systems period. The MSDN doc only references slates and I can't seem to find a way to change the setting in my install.
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In the Ease of Access Settings there's a Make Everything on your Screen Bigger toggle, but it's pretty, well as described and there's no fine tuning it. On large monitors you also get a "Show more tiles" toggle, but I don't get that one on my tablet, where I would actually use it, three tiles high is all I can use right now, I'd prefer four.

I am hoping they allow desktop apps, whatever the official term is going to be now, to use the new easy scaling options. It won't work on legacy but it would make it much easier going forward. Because like you said, there's not going to be a Metro Photoshop anytime soon.
 
Are you guys under the impression that metro is the "new" way of doing windows apps and desktop apps are now "legacy"? And that at some point in the future desktop apps will be retired and everything will be metro, even on desktops?

Because that is never going to happen.
 
usea said:
Are you guys under the impression that metro is the "new" way of doing windows apps and desktop apps are now "legacy"? And that at some point in the future desktop apps will be retired and everything will be metro, even on desktops?

Because that is never going to happen.
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I don't think it will happen either (not due to lack of trying), but you may want to let Sinofsky know that, don't think he got that message yet - he's got this crazy idea that Metro is the future, and that the desktop is legacy.
 
usea said:
Are you guys under the impression that metro is the "new" way of doing windows apps and desktop apps are now "legacy"? And that at some point in the future desktop apps will be retired and everything will be metro, even on desktops?

Because that is never going to happen.
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Desktop will be legacy on ARM desktops. If MS was interested in the future of desktop, they would allow desktop apps to be ported to ARM.
 
usea said:
Are you guys under the impression that metro is the "new" way of doing windows apps and desktop apps are now "legacy"? And that at some point in the future desktop apps will be retired and everything will be metro, even on desktops?

Because that is never going to happen.
Click to expand...

If desktop apps go away, it won't be any time soon and Metro will be much different than what it is right now. There are entire classes of applications that can't be done in Metro at all.
 
animal,baby,color,cute,macro,photography,puppy,turtle-2e2c3e8d3a823cfe110e768d97d5c70e_i.jpg


Why is it that every text support question I ask gets glanced over? Made a partition for W8, want to get rid of it, can't, what do.
 
ChoklitReign said:
animal,baby,color,cute,macro,photography,puppy,turtle-2e2c3e8d3a823cfe110e768d97d5c70e_i.jpg


Why is it that every text support question I ask gets glanced over? Made a partition for W8, want to get rid of it, can't, what do.
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What a cute picture of a turtle!

Did you try using the built in Disk Management tool?
 
Brettison said:
New legit disk management came about in Windows 7.
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Okay so when it comes down to getting rid of my Win 8 partition (D) when RTM hits, and I want that partition deleted and the space back as C drive:
-Disk management, "delete volume" of D drive
-"extend volume" of C drive to take back the space that was the D drive

Correct?
 
brotkasten said:
Man, if you guys thought I hate Windows 8 (I don't), then you should check out the Windows 8 related threads on the gaming side.
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i assume its people complaining about that XBLA game being only available through the Windows Store, am i correct?
 
brotkasten said:
That's what the thread was about, but then quickly turned into another Windows 8 bash thread. I honestly feel that Windows 8 already got Vista'd.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=478172
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it will still sell enough copies to get developer support (at least 200 mil), so i don't really care what people's perception is. I would still wait on see on the perception issue, the mainstream consumer still has no idea about the OS. Although, the mainstream consumer asks people like in that thread for advice, so you could be right.
 
brotkasten said:
Man, if you guys thought I hate Windows 8 (I don't), then you should check out the Windows 8 related threads on the gaming side.
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GAF also said Wii would bomb big time.
 
brotkasten said:
That's what the thread was about, but then quickly turned into another Windows 8 bash thread. I honestly feel that Windows 8 already got Vista'd.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=478172
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Yeah same here. I know that people are naturally resistant to change, and Windows 8 is certainly not perfect, but once you get used to how it works, it works really damn well in my opinion, and people are acting like it's the biggest piece of shit ever and it's not even out (a lot of those people haven't even tried it).

claviertekky said:
Yes unless you have it partitioned like Google Chrome OS (i.e. lots of mini partitions). Then you'll need GParted which is available on nearly every gui-enabled Linux distro.
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No, just the one partition for Windows 8 CP and then installed RP on that partition as well. So I just "delete volume" and then "extend volume" to take back that space to the C drive right?
 
VanMardigan said:
Which one of those tablet/ultrabook devices impressed you guys the most? Asus' Transformer book or Acer's? I like the Asus stuff from an aesthetic point of view but one of those is probably going to be my next laptop.
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I'm partial to the AMD Compal prototype . An A6 trinity is a good mixture of cpu power and gaming power and since its amd it should come in cheaper than something similar to Intel.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/06/amd-shows-off-its-first-windows-8-concept-tablet-at-computex-201/
 
Steelyuhas said:
No, just the one partition for Windows 8 CP and then installed RP on that partition as well. So I just "delete volume" and then "extend volume" to take back that space to the C drive right?
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Yes.

There should be two partitions in the end total.

1: 100MB System Reserved*
2: The original OS (C:)

*Some Windows 7 setups don't have this especially when upgraded from Vista.

You should do this under Windows 7.
 
Although I use OSX, I also have a nice HTPC with Win7 on it. Is it possible to navigate Win8 Metro with a controller and sort of use your HTPC like an Xbox?

Also LOL @ being impressed by non-retina tablets.
 
ivedoneyourmom said:
That MS slacked off for years on making a usable tablet OS, Apple started eating what they thought was their lunch, so MS decided to force a completely new and unproven interface on top a Windows 7 service pack and sell it to people. I'm in complete agreement.

usea: I am simply pointing out that all OSes are service packs to users who are uninterested in the new features.
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Even MS's windows xp tablet verison is more functional for content creation than the ipad and it ws designed for decades old hardware.

You might not like Windows 8 but guess what some of us like it and it makes the OS much faster and I for one am very happy that I can use the same device for content creation and consumption
 
coldfoot said:
Although I use OSX, I also have a nice HTPC with Win7 on it. Is it possible to navigate Win8 Metro with a controller and sort of use your HTPC like an Xbox?

Also LOL @ being impressed by non-retina tablets.
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xbox controller doesn't work (which is a shame, they should have made that a requirement to get the head start on Xbox Apps) but you can navigate it with a keyboard so maybe a Remote would work.
 
eastmen said:
Even MS's windows xp tablet verison is more functional for content creation than the ipad and it ws designed for decades old hardware.

You might not like Windows 8 but guess what some of us like it and it makes the OS much faster and I for one am very happy that I can use the same device for content creation and consumption
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It's too bad they made Metro/WinRT less functional than even iOS at content creation - they would have been on to something.

It's still a service pack for those who are uninterested in using WinRT apps. Don't get me wrong the little service pack features and refinements such as being able to mount ISOs, view PDFs, or have partitions larger than 2TB are certainly nice - but OS X has had all of those features for over 10 years now.
 
Windu said:
xbox controller doesn't work (which is a shame, they should have made that a requirement to get the head start on Xbox Apps) but you can navigate it with a keyboard so maybe a Remote would work.
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They really should add native xbox controller support. Maybe coming in the release version or an updated win8 driver for the xbox controller?
Also, will it be possible to make metro apps that won't run on ARM but require x86 + hefty directX gpu, a.k.a. games? Or does anything made for metro have to be able to run on ARM as well?

Win8 metro has a real potential for a HTPC console, but I suppose MS won't do this to protect their xbox business.
 
coldfoot said:
They really should add native xbox controller support. Maybe coming in the release version or an updated win8 driver for the xbox controller?
Also, will it be possible to make metro apps that won't run on ARM but require x86 + hefty directX gpu, a.k.a. games? Or does anything made for metro have to be able to run on ARM as well?

Win8 metro has a real potential for a HTPC console, but I suppose MS won't do this to protect their xbox business.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's possible to make a metro app that won't run on ARM, it'd probably just run like crap. Kind of like a Atom Windows 8 machine isn't going to be able to keep up with an Ivy Bridge. I don't think there is any sort of performance requirement for the Windows 8 marketplace.
 
PG2G said:
I don't think it's possible to make a metro app that won't run on ARM, it'd probably just run like crap. Kind of like a Atom Windows 8 machine isn't going to be able to keep up with an Ivy Bridge. I don't think there is any sort of performance requirement for the Windows 8 marketplace.
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Are developers able to set minimum requirements for their apps at windows marketplace and then the users aren't able to buy/download the app if their system doesn't meet them? Sounds like a no brainer feature to me...
 
coldfoot said:
Are developers able to set minimum requirements for their apps at windows marketplace and then the users aren't able to buy/download the app if their system doesn't meet them? Sounds like a no brainer feature to me...
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No idea honestly. Do other app stores do this? I've been on Windows Phone too long.
 
So I was talking to a friend of mine at an OEM, giga, and asked him about the $85 Windows RT license price that has been quoted on some of the tech blogs. According to him, the preliminary price isn't $85 -- it's $103.

wtf? How is anyone going to make money on these tablets?
 
dream said:
So I was talking to a friend of mine at an OEM, giga, and asked him about the $85 Windows RT license price that has been quoted on some of the tech blogs. According to him, the preliminary price isn't $85 -- it's $103.

wtf? How is anyone going to make money on these tablets?
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no way its that high. OEM prices with windows are usually around like $25-30.
 
dream said:
So I was talking to a friend of mine at an OEM, giga, and asked him about the $85 Windows RT license price that has been quoted on some of the tech blogs. According to him, the preliminary price isn't $85 -- it's $103.

wtf? How is anyone going to make money on these tablets?
Click to expand...

LOL, I'm sure they'll reduce the price when iPad continues to dominate the competition. MS ain't stupid, they know that pricing will never make Win8 RT more than a niche. That sounds more like the price for whatever the Win8 equivalent of Win7 Pro is.

Still, here are sites like this one, where they report that:
http://vr-zone.com/articles/microsoft-charges-tablet-oems-a-whopping-85-for-windows-rt/16250.html
 
ivedoneyourmom said:
It's too bad they made Metro/WinRT less functional than even iOS at content creation - they would have been on to something.

It's still a service pack for those who are uninterested in using WinRT apps. Don't get me wrong the little service pack features and refinements such as being able to mount ISOs, view PDFs, or have partitions larger than 2TB are certainly nice - but OS X has had all of those features for over 10 years now.
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I'm using photoshop and editing videos just fine on windows 8. All 1080p video to boot. I can't say the same for my ipad.
 
I know how wacky it sounds but I asked him to double check and, sure enough, Microsoft is charging them $103 per Windows RT license. And they're a huge OEM too, with a massive presence in notebooks, desktops, and tablets, so you'd think they'd get the best pricing possible.
 
dream said:
I know how wacky it sounds but I asked him to double check and, sure enough, Microsoft is charging them $103 per Windows RT license. And they're a huge OEM too, with a massive presence in notebooks, desktops, and tablets, so you'd think they'd get the best pricing possible.
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Well Windows RT does include Office so that might be it. And if there is one thing I know about Microsoft, they are not in the business of giving away Office.
 
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