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[Windows Central] Xbox's biggest crisis right now isn't games. It's hardware.

Right now for me, the problem is both hardware and software. Their first-party studios don't produce any games that interest me, and even if they would they don't give me any incentive to buy their hardware either. All games on PC day 1 makes Xbox hardware redundant for me so..

I really miss the Xbox 360 days.
 

Vox Machina

Banned
nope.

is pointing out that consoles sales are the only factor that really matters....

Ngl you lost me here. That's just wrong. Software matters, everything else stems from that. Your services, your hardware, your merch, everything. Xbox (the business) can grow even though they don't sell as many consoles as Sony or Nintendo. To do that they need to have a steady output of attractive software. Easy as!
 
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Okay fair enough but considering, again, how few Day 1 releases there are in PS+, it's not like Stray had a lot of competition. Virtua Fighter 5: Ultimate Showdown, Shadow Warrior 3, and a couple other games are the only notable Day 1 releases I can think of. And VF is a niche (these days) fighting game series; Shadow Warrior an even more niche FPS series.

Sony's numbers weren't comparing Stray's numbers to only new games entering the service. Stray was the most played game on the PS+ rental catalog (meaning more players utilized their PS+ Extra or Premium subscription to play it than any other game on the service including Sony's first party games, though GoT lead in hours played since it is a long game). Did more players play Spiderman on PS than Stray in total, probably sure. But not by utilizing the game catalog on PS+ Extra or Premium, they just bought or borrowed it etc.

This is because new games have more value than old games, regardless of how good those games are or how well they reviewed. I think both EAplay and PS+ are nice services, they aren't in the same ballpark or even the same block as GP, but both EA and Sony understand that and price the services accordingly with EAplay at $30/yr and PS+ Extra/Premium at $40yr or $60/yr over the base cost of online.
 
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ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Ngl you lost me here. That's just wrong. Software matters, everything else stems from that. Your services, your hardware, your merch, everything. Xbox (the business) can grow even though they don't sell as many consoles as Sony or Nintendo.
i didnt lost you, you are not following:

Since the beginning i wasnt talking about the Xbox business, i am talking exclusively about the xbox console. which hasn't made any money for MS. (i think Xbox (division) dosen't even reports profits)

and my original point is exactly what you are saying.

The xbox business can grow if they free themselves of the dead weight that is the plastic box.

The Xbox business can achieve its full potential, it's "endgame" of reaching games everywhere the moment they are not tied to a plastic box.
 

supernova8

Banned
Software is most important but of course if Xbox finally releases some good first party stuff but they still don't have enough Series X consoles to satisfy (presumably an uptick in) demand then that's a problem.

Maybe, just maybe.... they are holding back inventory for around the time Starfield launches or something?

I have a Series S and honestly I would love to replace it with a Series X but I'm past the point of signing up to stock trackers and scouring physical stores to find one. It should be in stock by now. If they cannot sort out supply then they fucked something up.
 
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Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Huh, I guess they'll keep that going until Game Pass Core comes out, then. Also maybe the reason the Rewards program is so finicky, likely to do with the fact it's spread out to seemingly every product of Microsoft, not something curated simply for Xbox software and services.
I've signed up for the PS Stars, I can't find anything on the store. Any ideas where ?
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
WNBFFvu.jpg
 

Vox Machina

Banned
i didnt lost you, you are not following:

Since the beginning i wasnt talking about the Xbox business, i am talking exclusively about the xbox console. which hasn't made any money for MS. (i think Xbox (division) dosen't even reports profits)

and my original point is exactly what you are saying.

The xbox business can grow if they free themselves of the dead weight that is the plastic box.

The Xbox business can achieve its full potential, it's "endgame" of reaching games everywhere the moment they are not tied to a plastic box.

True. I guess I just think that would represent a short-term win but would be a huge long term loss of being able to control their destiny in the hardware space. Honestly, I'm not a console gamer anymore so until they put out a portable (do it MS) I'm, frankly, unconcerned. They keep bringing games to PC day-and-date and I'm a happy camper.
 
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If MS drops out of the console race then it’s quite possible that the specs for PS6 will be hugely disappointing (with no competition other than the successor to the Switch). Need competition so I really hope MS gets their ass in gear if they acquire Activision Blizzard. Sony turned around the disastrous launch of the PS3 by consistently releasing high quality games In the latter half of that consoles life. So no, isn’t hardware that’s the problem, if’s software by a long shot.

Sony's already had competition. Just because Microsoft is bad at providing sufficient competition, doesn't mean it's not competition. More often than not, competition usually results in a clear winner and a clear loser, not two rivals who are neck-and-neck.

In gaming it's rarely if ever even been that way globally. We've just kinda learned recently that the close Genesis/SNES rivalry here in America wasn't really that close after all because SoA played a gambit with big retailers to constantly dump the shelves with supply they'd have to buy unsold inventory back from after the holidays, so pretty much all the revenue and market share numbers SoA reported during the 1991 - 1994 years (and after) was sold-in (to retailers), not sold-through (to customers). That means in hindsight, the only markets MegaDrive really had actual close competition or leads over the SNES were Europe and Brazil.

5th gen? Close for a couple years in Japan between Saturn (sold-in) and PlayStation (sold-through); nowhere near the case for ROTW. N64 put up good numbers in the U.S and Europe, though, at times outselling PS1 for a few months in the U.S here and there. My point is, competition simply means a competitor exists; it doesn't mean nor has to mean that competitor is selling closely to another in order to keep each other 'honest' or whatever.

PlayStation doesn't need Xbox in order to continue providing top quality for customers. However, much of Xbox's brand identity is predicated on playing counter to PlayStation and attacking PlayStation. Xbox needs PlayStation, not the other way around.

Sony's numbers weren't comparing Stray's numbers to only new games entering the service. Stray was the most played game on the PS+ rental catalog (meaning more players utilized their PS+ Extra or Premium subscription to play it than any other game on the service including Sony's first party games, though GoT lead in hours played since it is a long game).

That was for a specific measured time period and, again, Sony's own 1P games in PS+ are catalog releases. They've exhausted their B2P sales cycle, so most people who wanted to play them, purchased the games before they went into the service.

Did more players play Spiderman on PS than Stray in total, probably sure.

"Probably" 🤣. C'mon, man.

But not by utilizing the game catalog on PS+ Extra or Premium, they just bought or borrowed it etc.

This is because new games have more value than old games, regardless of how good those games are or how well they reviewed. I think both EAplay and PS+ are nice services, they aren't in the same ballpark or even the same block as GP, but both EA and Sony understand that and price the services accordingly with EAplay at $30/yr and PS+ Extra/Premium at $40yr or $60/yr over the base cost of online.

If new games had more value than old games, and Game Pass gets a lot more Day 1 releases than PS+, then by that logic, Game Pass should have a higher sub count. But, it doesn't, because your theory isn't actually true. If new games had more inherent value than old games, then GTA5, COD etc. wouldn't keep outselling new releases in NPDs months after their initial releases.

If new games had more inherent value than old games, then other services like EA Play would be putting their releases in full on the service Day 1. And, if PS+ wasn't on Game Pass's level, then PS+ Extra and Premium would not have come within 10 million of Game Pass's last reported sub count, in just short of one year after the PS+ restructure.

I've signed up for the PS Stars, I can't find anything on the store. Any ideas where ?

We were talking about MS Rewards, not PS Stars :/
 
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Games are the problem even with the last acquisition since bad management is MS way of killing studios every time (remember those Kinect games from Rare). MS is still clueless about the video game market, otherwise they would not be in this situation... again, with all that money spend, but this time with the most powerful hardware. Gamepass is not gonna hook anyone like hardwares do. But we get it, MS wants to stop selling consoles.

Anyway, did Series S and X "sandwich" PS5 like MS paid fans said so even here? How did that work? Was that sandwich any good MS and paid fans?

saucisse-sausage.gif
 
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KaiserBecks

Member
Yep, I was totally wrong Conker, Banjo & Kazooie, and Perfect Dark are all flourishing under MS.

Oh wait...

Not to mention that they have let Halo get run into the ground.
If RARE was developing Conker, Banjo and Prefect Dark, people would complain that it’s always the same. Like they do with Gears and Forza. Rare is doing great with a completely new ip but surprise….that’s not enough, we want old IPs now 😂🤷🏼‍♂️
 
How are they struggling? They released Flight Simulator, Forza, Age of Empires, all well reviewed. They just had a showcase that confirms they are releasing a lot more games. Where is the struggle.

You know they're struggling when you're still patting them on the back for 2 - 3 year old games

Time to move on from Flight Sim already
 
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Xbox PR is utter crap and Xbox needs to do a far better job of showing off the Series X. Series S is fast becoming Xbox's very own 32X; No one wants it, underpowered and price makes no difference.
Mind you can September, it be a different story...
 

Kumomeme

Member
from what i see software is their biggest problem, however hardware issue play big role to their software issue.

which is all due to them hastily trying to juggle everything at once instead of set up proper path of priority.
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
True. I guess I just think that would represent a short-term win but would be a huge long term loss of being able to control their destiny in the hardware space. Honestly, I'm not a console gamer anymore so until they put out a portable (do it MS) I'm, frankly, unconcerned. They keep bringing games to PC day-and-date and I'm a happy camper.
I feel that so far they are happy about people using the ROG ally or the deck (wiith a windows boot) and honestly I can understand that, that is probably the best course of action for them.They are probably planning a "lite" version of their OS for those pc/consoles which would be smart imo, less bloated maybe more small screen friendly (although I haven't tried win 11 in that regard)
 
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Melchiah

Member
Developers have begun more openly complaining about the Xbox Series S' power as well. Larian Studios' noted that Microsoft's policies of Xbox Series X|S launch parity are preventing it from shipping Baldur's Gate 3 day and date on Xbox, since the Xbox Series S' lack of power is incompatible with the game's couch co-op features. Microsoft itself scrapped the split-screen co-op for Halo Infinite, probably for the same reason. Despite this, Microsoft has sent out engineers to Larian to see if it's something that's possible to achieve. Other developers have also complained about the console over the past few years, and as we head deeper into the generation, and games become more complex, it's going to become an ever-increasingly fraught issue.

Nothing changes. Still insisting on the parity clause of the 360 days, eventhough their own studio scrapped split screen co-op.

One representative from a publisher who wished to remain anonymous told Eurogamer Microsoft's policy blocks developers from taking advantage of other platforms' strengths.

"Microsoft is suggesting that anything but parity will result in them not carrying a title. They may think this is competitive, but it's not. They are killing any creative exposure of titles to make up for their own platform's shortcomings."
 
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Banjo64

cumsessed
also im sorry but no. Expansion pack will never be a good deal so long as retroarch on android/iphone exists.
99.9% of people using emulators are stealing the ROMs, but free is a better deal than paying I suppose.

Their dripfeed is astounding and for the 1/2 games they add that are worth it, there are 3 games you've never heard of and dont care for.
The drip feed has been going on for so long though that you’ve now got practically every major NES and SNES game alongside a lot of high quality GB, GBA and N64 games.

Like I’ve not counted but I think every single Zelda is on there until the Game Cube games.

2 years ago I would have agreed with you, but as of now it has snowballed in to a good service.
 

Damigos

Member
I have to agree with OP. Having to develop games for 2 consoles with significant spec differences will mean devs must always start from the low end console. If it cant run on Series S, it cant get published.
MS should only release a Series X and have it $50-100 cheaper than PS5, keep GP low and increase its value and develop a couple excellent exclusive games from their own studios. Thats how you gain the market, not by spending 80 bn to buy studios, increasing gp price and releasing Redfall..
And having to maintain 2 consoles of different specs doesnt help at all
 
It’s just like since MS looked to buy Activision they’ve given up selling and promoting consoles. I hope it’s just a blimp, to get the deal over the line and come September really push the console

For me what’s the most ever more disappointing is MS failing to show off the power advantage of the Series X over the PS5. It’s very easy to blame 3rd parties but even Ghost Wire run better on the PS5 for Christ shake.
 

NEbeast

Member
I think Starfield will do better than most people seem to give it credit for and Bethesda will be fine.
Starfield will be do good numbers,but imagine how big it would have been if it was on all platforms. It would have sold millions on PS alone and the majority of people on xbox aren't buying it. Its going to be interesting to see if MS can make that lost revenue up.
 

Kenpachii

Member
lol at people shitting on the series s.

series s is there most populaire console sale. It makes more sense to phase out xbox series x and launch another improved series s ( oh how about that they did ) then the other way around.

Its cheap and gives people access towards gamepass a subscription microsoft wants to sell you.

Games can run perfectly fine on it and devs should build games around its specs. We all should also be happy about it, because it gives everybody a better solution at the end of the day even pc gamers by having lower minimums to play games which also makes stuff like steam deck gaming a thing and console gamers have smoother and better options with a higher model that's already on the market.

Let's be real here, even if you throw 100% more performance or whatever else at the wall for devs, u will just get less optimized games that require more hardware for no reason.
 
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ShaiKhulud1989

Gold Member
series s is there most populaire console sale.
But it's not. Series X is undershipped and Series S is actually a tough sell for many retailers, it was the frist current-gen console that recieved a discount over 1.5 years ago and the only console on steep discounts and promotions ever since.

PS5, for reference, saw the price increase and still made it to 40 mils.
 

NEbeast

Member
I dont have disdain for sony, I'm a playstation fan but I'm not a corporate ballwasher, cheerleading everything they do. Sony were the first ones to set these prices in Europehttps://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/playstation-confirms-its-ps5-games-will-cost-70/.
Game prices have been static for decades. If you can't afford an extra £10 for your hobby, then you should find a cheaper alternative.
The duelsense edge is the same price as the cheapest scuff but you can change the analogue sticks when they get drift. You have to buy a new controller when the scuff gets drift. I bought mine when it released and have absolutely loved having paddles again.
 

kyussman

Member
Haven't I been seeing "play games anywhere" marketing in relation to GamePass for years now......so people are playing games without buying an Xbox,isn't this what Xbox are literally telling people to do.
 

Stooky

Member
For me what’s the most ever more disappointing is MS failing to show off the power advantage of the Series X over the PS5. It’s very easy to blame 3rd parties but even Ghost Wire run better on the PS5 for Christ shake.
the power difference between both systems is not a big enough to make more of. I don’t think majority of console players really even care.
 
the power difference between both systems is not a big enough to make more of. I don’t think majority of console players really even care.
One really shouldn't be seeing any difference then should we?
And console people always like to hear how their version looks or sound the best, not that will make them buy a rival console mind (if their version is the best)
 
It’s just like since MS looked to buy Activision they’ve given up selling and promoting consoles. I hope it’s just a blimp, to get the deal over the line and come September really push the console

For me what’s the most ever more disappointing is MS failing to show off the power advantage of the Series X over the PS5. It’s very easy to blame 3rd parties but even Ghost Wire run better on the PS5 for Christ shake.

Maybe it doesn't have the power advantage that people think it does?

That could explain why there isn't any large differences between the two systems.

No offense intended.
 
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Maybe it doesn't have the power advantage that people think it does?

That could explain why there isn't any large differences between the two systems.

No offense intended.

It does have a power advantage, but it's like the old ZX Spectrum and Amstrad days, not enough use of the hardware and simple ports
 

RespawnX

Member
Please tell me this is a joke...

Let's take a look at exclusives the PS5 was released :
2020: The Last of Us II, Ghost of Tsushima, Demons Souls, Miles Morales
2021: Returnal, R&C Rift Apart, Death Stranding
2022: Horizon FOrbidden West, God of War Ragnorok, The Last of US remake (fair to put this on there?)
2023: Spiderman 2.

I fail to see how that is considered struggling and that list is by no means all inclusive. As it leaves off stuff like Deathloop, and Ghostwire Tokyo. 2023 having only 1 big exclusive is a little down year.

Good point, now exclude the PS4 (re-)releases.

No doubt about quality of games but frequency on PS5 is quiet low and as you noticed, we are down to one title in 2023.

What I wanted to point out, that Microsoft could do much better with that amount of studios. Sony output arrived to the bare minimum on quantity and I expect that to change starting next year.
We are already at 3 titles from Microsoft this year, but one of them is a forgettable co-op shooter and the other one the worst minecraft ever.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
lol at people shitting on the series s.

Games can run perfectly fine on it and devs should build games around its specs. We all should also be happy about it, because it gives everybody a better solution at the end of the day even pc gamers by having lower minimums to play games which also makes stuff like steam deck gaming a thing and console gamers have smoother and better options with a higher model that's already on the market.
Except games with split screen co-op....
(yes, you don't care (or think nobody cares) about split screen, we know)
New games are getting so demanding that they are going "back" to 720p on XSX, how can the XSS survive that? Going down to 480i?
Do you really want a "nextgen" console that is limited to low res with reconstruction and can't even keep a steady 30fps?
 
It does have a power advantage, but it's like the old ZX Spectrum and Amstrad days, not enough use of the hardware and simple ports

No I'm saying it probably doesn't have the advantage that some think it does. Like if people are expecting 30 FPS vs 60FPS at the same settings they will probably be disappointed.
 

Gojiira

Member
Starfield 4k60? LMFAO, confirmed 30fps Jez for the longest time…
Anyway, no their biggest problem is mismanagement and Xboxs blind focus on ‘winning’ the games space. They‘ve been more focused on controlling the market and forcing game pass on everything and trying to beat Sony they lost sight on the fact that Sony and Nintendo is where they’re at because they focused first and foremost on their own studios and cultivating stellar game releases. Xbox just want to bully and buy their success. Fuck them, they can wallow in the quagmire of their own making. I hope Daddy Microsoft cuts Xbox off, were it not for their parent company bailing them out, Xbox would have been shuttered twice already…
 
I think both EAplay and PS+ are nice services, they aren't in the same ballpark or even the same block as GP
Agreed on that GP isn't as nice service as PS+(OG Best Deal in Gaming since 2010), but EAplay definitely belongs to a lower tier block along with GamePass.
 
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jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
If MS drops out of the console race then it’s quite possible that the specs for PS6 will be hugely disappointing (with no competition other than the successor to the Switch). Need competition so I really hope MS gets their ass in gear if they acquire Activision Blizzard. Sony turned around the disastrous launch of the PS3 by consistently releasing high quality games In the latter half of that consoles life. So no, isn’t hardware that’s the problem, if’s software by a long shot.
Some ppl were disappointed with the specs of the PS4 Pro and PS5.

Some ppl will be disappointed with the specs of the PS5 Pro and the PS6.

It doesnt really matter. Cerny, Sony had/have specific goals for Playstation consoles.
 
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Jakk

Member
The Series S is hate boner is odd, its a tiny box that plays almost all modern games better than the most popular pc config on steam. Even years after its launch it is among strongest gaming hardware in its form factor at the stated price. A nuc style mini pc approaching series S is performance is over twice the price.
According to the latest Steam HW survey, around 70% of PCs have at least 16 GB of RAM, plus any decent gaming PC is going to have a GPU with dedicated VRAM. Meanwhile, Series S has around 8 GB of shared memory available for the games, so I don't understand why are some people so dismissive of the potential issues this could cause, mainly when we get further into the generation. Sure it's possible to scale the games down to run on the S, but it isn't always as easy as some people think.

To be clear, I don't hate the Series S, I think it's impressive for its size, but I also don't see how it's such a great value. Maybe for some really casual gamers who only play a couple of games. Anyone else must get annoyed with the small storage space pretty quickly, and considering the ridiculous prices of extra storage, it is better to just get the X. Or the new S with bigger SSD, but also at that point, I don't see why not save a little more and get the PS5 DE.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
According to the latest Steam HW survey, around 70% of PCs have at least 16 GB of RAM, plus any decent gaming PC is going to have a GPU with dedicated VRAM. Meanwhile, Series S has around 8 GB of shared memory available for the games, so I don't understand why are some people so dismissive of the potential issues this could cause, mainly when we get further into the generation. Sure it's possible to scale the games down to run on the S, but it isn't always as easy as some people think.

To be clear, I don't hate the Series S, I think it's impressive for its size, but I also don't see how it's such a great value. Maybe for some really casual gamers who only play a couple of games. Anyone else must get annoyed with the small storage space pretty quickly, and considering the ridiculous prices of extra storage, it is better to just get the X. Or the new S with bigger SSD, but also at that point, I don't see why not save a little more and get the PS5 DE.
Because depending on the narrative, ram doesnt matter or count. Only 1 spec does, never the whole package.

You can see this just based on recent threads on here. Its amazing, really.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Phil Spencer is a great front-man but a terrible leader.

Xbox has continually lost ground despite the fact that both Sony and Nintendo aren't really doing anything radical, they are just steady. Revenue figures are being used to disguise the lack of competitive progress, and what absolutely must be a massive increase in development expenditure.

What's worse is that its yet to be seen what the net result will be from these newly acquired studios switching into first-party mode. Zenimax for instance will have their income bolstered by current and legacy sales of Playstation SKU's, but as more releases get made exclusive this will fade away into insignificance. This shortfall will have to be addressed somehow.

The current situation is actually pretty dire for Xbox. Hardware sales are declining while simultaneously subscriber growth is slowing. Software output is still yet to show improvement, and the public perception of the brand has not been helped by the ongoing ABK acquisition struggle. Yes, Starfield could provide a late-year boost, but objectively Sony have an extremely strong counter-offer in Spiderman 2, so its not like they have an open goal to shoot for.
 

vkbest

Member
If MS drops out of the console race then it’s quite possible that the specs for PS6 will be hugely disappointing (with no competition other than the successor to the Switch). Need competition so I really hope MS gets their ass in gear if they acquire Activision Blizzard. Sony turned around the disastrous launch of the PS3 by consistently releasing high quality games In the latter half of that consoles life. So no, isn’t hardware that’s the problem, if’s software by a long shot.
PC is a PS competitor too. Things as Steam Deck will release in next years, competing directly with consoles. So even if MS stop to make consoles, Sony would have to make a decent PS6 compared to PC from the same time.
 
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