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[Windows Central] Xbox's biggest crisis right now isn't games. It's hardware.

bender

What time is it?
Isn't the purpose of Game Pass Core to finally phase out XBL Gold? If it isn't, then MS management at Xbox need to be summarily fired, today. The way I read it, Core basically replaces XBL Gold; you can even buy Core for an annual price, just like Gold today.

Yes but you can still redeem MS Rewards points for 1 & 3 month XLG codes. While GPU isn't available as a reward now, that isn't indicative of anything as it has been pulled and re-added multiple times (a few in the past month). Using the Rewards Program as a litmus test for Xbox and services isn't a great idea as the program is run so poorly.
 
Yes but you can still redeem MS Rewards points for 1 & 3 month XLG codes. While GPU isn't available as a reward now, that isn't indicative of anything as it has been pulled and re-added multiple times (a few in the past month). Using the Rewards Program as a litmus test for Xbox and services isn't a great idea as the program is run so poorly.

Huh, I guess they'll keep that going until Game Pass Core comes out, then. Also maybe the reason the Rewards program is so finicky, likely to do with the fact it's spread out to seemingly every product of Microsoft, not something curated simply for Xbox software and services.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
We're talking about losing x% of B2P sales on Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo, and Steam due to Day 1 Game Pass availability.
Not really. The games aren't exclusive to Xbox. They're simply getting on GP day one.

he problem for Microsoft is, the cost to pay to cover for potential loss revenue on multiple platforms (not just Xbox) would be massive.
But more on topic..... you do realize you're talking about Microsoft, right? The money problem isn't a big issue.
 

ShaiKhulud1989

Gold Member
I don't get WC's sudden change of heart on XSS.

PS1/PS2/Switch/PS4 Pro were amongst the weakest consoles of their respected generations. So what? It's all about games, and only games. Hell, a few of my most beloved games this gen, TotK and GoW: Ragnarok, are running just fine on an aoutdated portable tablet and beefed-up old AMD Jaguar notebook. And they both look and feel absolutely monumental in bith Nin and Sony's portfolio.

Microsoft needs a game as monumental and awe-inspiring, as were Gears 1, Fable and Halo. And let's be honest, we have't seen anything from MS close to this level of magnitude in generations.
 
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ToTTenTranz

Banned
Biggest issue on Xbox's side is studio mismanagement, by far.


IMO at this point just let the studios do low-effort ports on the Series S version and call it a day, just like they did on the One / One S versions during the second half of 8th gen.

The Series S would have been a great trojan for a mobile 9th gen console but that never materialized so it's only going for low-budget gamers that were never going to spend all that much on software besides GamePass anyway.



I don't get WC's the sudden change of heart on XSS.
They're warming people up for some bad news. They're just doing their job.
 

bender

What time is it?
Huh, I guess they'll keep that going until Game Pass Core comes out, then. Also maybe the reason the Rewards program is so finicky, likely to do with the fact it's spread out to seemingly every product of Microsoft, not something curated simply for Xbox software and services.

The majority of points that can be earned are outside of Xbox. Redemptions for other gift cards come and go (Amazon). Auto-Redeem for GPU was broken for months starting in April. I missed a month because of this and the following month arrived about 10 days late. And when the Game Pass Ultimate was available this past month, one month codes redemptions were handing out three months of service. Back when Achieve More, Earn More was available on the Xbox Rewards App, there are tons of times when it didn't register properly and people would be out of 50 points for the day. They also bring back Game Pass Quests that aren't obtainable for a lot of users like "Gain A Level or do a Revenge Mission in Assassin's Creed Origins". Revenge Missions haven't worked in a few years and if you have a max level character on your account, starting a new character will not complete the Quest. And that doesn't take into account people complaining of being banned or not being able to redeem rewards. The program is just riddled with issues but it's hard to complain considering it's fairly generous when it does work.
 
It's games. They killed Gears of war with bad 4 and terrible 5.
They killed Halo with Infinite... and they just don't make AAA games.

But as for the box itself. It is terribly ugly, black box that strangely collects fingerprints like there is no tomorrow. Not sure what's the deal with that.
If they at least released white version....
But I generally dislike the box form factor.

But box is one thing. Other, very important is lack of character of the console. It seems and looks (the ui, experience) like netflix designed it. every ui element is a box, it's all sterile, ads.
I miss blades, I even miss first NXE... but the last 360 dashboard and all dashboards on ONE after are tragic. It's so soulless.
The magic with early 360 was real. Right up to kinect year 1 or 2 until we realized they are nuts. Maybe up to 2012. But the first years? Gears, dead rising, lost planet jrpgs, mass effect, olivion. The console seemed very futuristic at the time. Wireless controller, fantastic white color and shape. I loved the 360. ps3 had class and serious tone at the time but 360 had that real fun tone. Not forced fun.

I don't know if they can recapture that.
Meanwhile, Sony lost some of their edge too. Feels a bit soft. But at least it still feels somewhat focused and UI looks nice. The box is dividing but I love the weird shape and plates. Great idea. The dualsense haptics and triggers? fantastic.
I'm quietly baffled that Xbox owners put up with adspam EVERYWHERE in their UI. Every time I see an Xbox UI, I'm shocked by the amount of advertising they are throwing at you no matter what you are doing. The PS UI is clean except if you actually go to the PS Store to look for something to buy. On PC, Steam doesn't bother you with ads unless you are looking specifically at the storefront home page.
 

Umbasaborne

Banned
I genuinley think Starfield will move units this holiday. The software will bring people to the platform, it’s part of the reason sony bounced back so spectacularly at the end of the ps3 life cycle and start of the ps4. If microsoft can get a consistent cadence of Starfield and fable caliber titles, then people will go to the platform, the market has proven it before
 
I genuinley think Starfield will move units this holiday. The software will bring people to the platform, it’s part of the reason sony bounced back so spectacularly at the end of the ps3 life cycle and start of the ps4. If microsoft can get a consistent cadence of Starfield and fable caliber titles, then people will go to the platform, the market has proven it before
how pessimistic you have to be in your own brand to not believe this simple fact.
 

tusharngf

Member
the problem is they need 4 AAA titles every year. They should be putting great games every 3 month then only gamepass will sell.
 

Bernardougf

Member
Well just said it in the other thread the series s is a anchor console for microsoft and the worst idea they could it have for this gen... not matter the sales number in comparison with the series x... it goes well beyond that in terms of the issues it created for the success of the series x and this gen.

Spin it all the way to the sun shills .. the series s is the worst idea since kinect 👍🏻
 

balls of snow

Gold Member
Shit like this is what makes me hesitant into investing into their ecosystem, thereby perpetuating the cycle. I know 100% there will be a ps6, its now 70% and dropping that there will be a new xbox after series x/s. Maybe I'll just get starfield on steam.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I genuinley think Starfield will move units this holiday. The software will bring people to the platform, it’s part of the reason sony bounced back so spectacularly at the end of the ps3 life cycle and start of the ps4. If microsoft can get a consistent cadence of Starfield and fable caliber titles, then people will go to the platform, the market has proven it before
Sony had several years of exclusives before they started to turn things around. 2009 was the year that their fortunes began to change. They had many exclusives. Xbox at the moment has one major exclusive.
 

Vox Machina

Banned
That is the point. I don't think consoles are important to Microsoft at all. They are keeping them mainly for the store front.

Starfield is going to be such an important releases because is the game that MS has not been able to make since...Gears? (and some more). Starfield is a genere defining game, a GOTY, Game of the Generation a new IP from a highly acclaimed Studio.

If this game doesn't increase substantially how many consoles Xbox sells in that quarter; they are fucked.

Middle and last paragraph are diametrically opposite of each other ????
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
So they don’t “struggle” at games. They are literally one of the first companies to even make a video game.
You can't be serious. This is one of the dumbest posts I have seen in a long time. You are literally arguing that because MS has been putting out OS since 1979 that somehow that makes them not struggling to put out games exclusively on their platform.

I really hope I just misunderstood you, because I have a hard time believing you are trying to make the argument that you are.

They have been an absolute epic fail in terms of developing first party games.
 

HeWhoWalks

Gold Member
£70 and 80 euro games here in europe is a complete disgrace, It's completely indefensible. Sony were the first ones to set these prices. Have you seen the price of dualsense edge? it's £200! outrageous and what about psvr2, over £500. It costs more than a ps5. Are you forgetting sony blocked ps plus, ps now stacking and stopped customers from maximising their value. That's the definition of nickle and diming.
It's clear that you didn't game in the 90s. :pie_roffles:

In any case, I get what you're saying, but it's also just as easy to not buy their stuff. Can't be anti-consumer when they give you the choice to skip. :p
 
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eNT1TY

Member
The Series S is hate boner is odd, its a tiny box that plays almost all modern games better than the most popular pc config on steam. Even years after its launch it is among strongest gaming hardware in its form factor at the stated price. A nuc style mini pc approaching series S is performance is over twice the price.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
I genuinley think Starfield will move units this holiday. The software will bring people to the platform, it’s part of the reason sony bounced back so spectacularly at the end of the ps3 life cycle and start of the ps4. If microsoft can get a consistent cadence of Starfield and fable caliber titles, then people will go to the platform, the market has proven it before
I genuinely think it will not. For one simple reason.

Using your PlayStation example, the key thing you are missing, was that sony didn't just have a steady stream of games over a 3-year period, a PS console was the only way you could play those games.

This is what I meant when I said MS has made the best case for why no one should buy an Xbox. As it stands, Xbox isn't the only way to play that game. I mean, for anyone that has a half way decent PC, an argument can be made why someone like that would buy a PS console. They would have to really just want an Xbox to buy a console when for $15 a month they can play its games on their PC.

And another thing that people seem to not say, the biggest audience for Bethesda games, is on the PC. And Starfield doesn't have casual gaming crowd appeal. So you are more likely to see people flocking to buy a console for a game ie Spiderman... than for a game like Starfield.
 
They are still sold out here. Can't find one to save yourself. PS5 on the other hand, you have to be careful where you are walking because you can trip over them.

Sony got the supply chain humming, but you would expect that to be a strength of theirs, with being a consumer electronics giant and all.
 
Microsoft is a software company. It's in their name, it's in their DNA

They got into hardware by necessity.
Which is ironic because Windows is like the worst imaginable piece of software. Anyone who works in IT can tell you their nightmare stories of something relating to maintaining their organization's PC's because of some obscure Windows bug or problem that has existed for more than a decade and has never been fixed.
 
Middle and last paragraph are diametrically opposite of each other.
nope.

is pointing out that consoles sales are the only factor that really matters....to justify the damn plastic box .(despite what Xbox is trying to deflect with)

the most consoles you sell:

1. more people play/spend

2. more publishers are willing to publish their games on it.

3. 70-30 split baby.

4. you can leverage your position to make deals easier.

and is pretty well established that Software sells Hardware.

MS/Xbox is in this pathetic position with their hardware sales precisely due to the lack of Big Dick Exclusives.

after so many years of this drought. Starfield is THAT game.

Software sells Hardware.

but is only one game going to substantially increase Xbox hardware sales? that is the key question and its answer is going to be very important for MS to evaluate the future of xbox (consoles).

What i am saying is that if MS is unable to deliver these kind of games for its console consistently....they dont have any right remaining in the console business . in fact; having a poorly performing hardware only hurts and limits them.
 

drganon

Member
Which is ironic because Windows is like the worst imaginable piece of software. Anyone who works in IT can tell you their nightmare stories of something relating to maintaining their organization's PC's because of some obscure Windows bug or problem that has existed for more than a decade and has never been fixed.
When you have a monopoly, you don't need to fix anything. Same reason why internet/cable providers can get away with terrible service.
 
What drugs are you smoking if you think Starfield, without PlayStation and Switch, will rival the long-term sales of let alone Spiderman 2, needless to say anything like the next God of War?

While they aren't everything in terms of being a good measure, trailer views on Starfield are notably lower than anything compared to Spiderman 2. Most of Starfield's interest online seems to be from enthusiasts but the rule with that is, there are fewer enthusiasts yet they talk about the same thing way more & louder than the majority.

Since PS+ also entails online play, the game with the highest # of players actually isn't Stray. It's likely a game like COD, or GT7, or SF6 etc which would at least be much higher than Stray in cumulative player counts via PS+. I'm not even going to touch the rotten apple that is equivalating a couple smaller releases on GP equal to 10 Sony 1P games/exclusives 3-4 years later. If that were actually true among the majority, Game Pass subscription numbers would be better across the board.
We'll see what the Starfield numbers are after the first week or two. Typically, these Bethesda games top Sony exclusive numbers on PC alone.

And the numbers about the cat game are directly from Sony, not from me. It was played by more users via the service than any other game in the PS+ catalog of games, because it was new and was worth considerably more to players than games that they likely already played years ago. At least that was true when Sony made that presentation, the stats could have changed by now. 🤷‍♂️

Side note: I'm really surprised that you intentionally tried to obfuscate the facts by talking about games played outside those "rented" from the service. That's a really poor effort there when I was specifically discussing the games played from the PS+ catalog of games (the GP equivalent). People playing multiplayer games or games they purchased from the store are irrelevant to the conversation.
 
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truth411

Member
Contracts. Everything that follows is just an example of how it works.

When you set out to make a console, you get into a contract with your chip OEM. You lock in a contract for say... 30M chips on a 7nm process. Or more specifically, x number of wafers that can get you 30M chips. There is scale, if you are asking for 10M chips, it would cost you significantly less than if you were asking for 5M.. or 3M. And when a new node is released, demand on that node is always higher and yields may not even be that great, so wafers on that node is going to cost a lot, especially if you want a small number of chips. Basically, to get the best deals, you have to order a lot of chips.

See how it becomes a problem?

Sony can go in and ask for 30M chips and get a great deal on those because they know they will sell all those chips. And when a new node is running, Sony can go and ask for 20M chips, then when 5nm comes along, ask for 30M chips on that.

How can MS go to 5nm, when they still have not sold through the 7nm wafers they already are in contract for? They still have to pay for those chips even if they use them or not.
🤔 Good Point.
 

peish

Member
i feel redfall was the last straw that broke them. i am surprised at how poor their new Series consoles are doing against expectations, the leadership seems disheartened and not fighting back. Xbox has become too passive in the face of failures.

not too sure if the actibliz thing is taking too much of their fight time. but it's too quiet on their front, like sense of giving up, waiting to hand over and letting new leaders do a new Series X2 generation
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
How Bout Both GIF by Joey Bada$$
 
Not really. The games aren't exclusive to Xbox. They're simply getting on GP day one.

Yes, but there will be a growing trend of players who'd rather just "rent" the games from GP than buy them at full-price for $70 or even more, per-game, Day 1. For example if you're a multi-platform owner and there's a neat game you might've considered picking up on PlayStation for $60 Day 1, but then it gets announced for Game Pass Day 1, what are you likely going to do?

The game probably would only take a couple weeks to play through, maybe it's a single-player title with no online at that. You're probably much better off paying $10.99 for a month of regular Game Pass, than spend $60 for it on PlayStation.

But more on topic..... you do realize you're talking about Microsoft, right? The money problem isn't a big issue.

Apparently it was for virtually all of 2022, because we saw none of those Game Pass deals with big or notable 3P releases. 2021 set up expectation that perhaps MS were going to continue it. 2022? Crickets.

I don't get WC's sudden change of heart on XSS.

PS1/PS2/Switch/PS4 Pro were amongst the weakest consoles of their respected generations. So what? It's all about games, and only games. Hell, a few of my most beloved games this gen, TotK and GoW: Ragnarok, are running just fine on an aoutdated portable tablet and beefed-up old AMD Jaguar notebook. And they both look and feel absolutely monumental in bith Nin and Sony's portfolio.

Microsoft needs a game as monumental and awe-inspiring, as were Gears 1, Fable and Halo. And let's be honest, we have't seen anything from MS close to this level of magnitude in generations.

Was Fable honestly a monumental and awe-inspiring game? It never moved big numbers, I think its biggest claim to fame was the studio involved in making it, and Peter Molyneux.

But it was nowhere near the phenomenon that Gears or especially Halo were. I agree though, Microsoft need those types of games again. They just seem completely unable to make them in-house organically anymore, so they're buying 3P publishers who have those types of games already (Mojang for Minecraft, Zenimax for TES, ABK (potentially) for COD).

The majority of points that can be earned are outside of Xbox. Redemptions for other gift cards come and go (Amazon). Auto-Redeem for GPU was broken for months starting in April. I missed a month because of this and the following month arrived about 10 days late. And when the Game Pass Ultimate was available this past month, one month codes redemptions were handing out three months of service. Back when Achieve More, Earn More was available on the Xbox Rewards App, there are tons of times when it didn't register properly and people would be out of 50 points for the day. They also bring back Game Pass Quests that aren't obtainable for a lot of users like "Gain A Level or do a Revenge Mission in Assassin's Creed Origins". Revenge Missions haven't worked in a few years and if you have a max level character on your account, starting a new character will not complete the Quest. And that doesn't take into account people complaining of being banned or not being able to redeem rewards. The program is just riddled with issues but it's hard to complain considering it's fairly generous when it does work.

Okay yeah the whole system sounds like a broken piece of crap when you explain it that way. I don't have time to mess around with a lot of those types of programs; they remind me of those paid online surveys where getting anything of substantial value requires hours of time sunk into it, that feels like it could be better spent doing other things. Basically, like a bunch of busywork.

I just don't have the time for it, personally.

I genuinley think Starfield will move units this holiday. The software will bring people to the platform, it’s part of the reason sony bounced back so spectacularly at the end of the ps3 life cycle and start of the ps4. If microsoft can get a consistent cadence of Starfield and fable caliber titles, then people will go to the platform, the market has proven it before

Someone else already responded to this pretty well so I'll basically echo what they said: it takes a lot more than just one game to do what you're saying.

How are they struggling? They released Flight Simulator, Forza, Age of Empires, all well reviewed. They just had a showcase that confirms they are releasing a lot more games. Where is the struggle.

None of those games you mentioned have galvanized a swell of people to buy Xboxes or even sub to Game Pass. They are not blockbuster titles and do not appeal to the masses.

This doesn't mean they're bad games. It just means they have very limited "selling power", and Microsoft knows it. That's part of the reason they are trying to buy 3P publishers for IP like COD.

We'll see what the Starfield numbers are after the first week or two. Typically, these Bethesda games top Sony exclusive numbers on PC alone.

No, not really. I remember reading the sales splits for Skyrim and Fallout 4, up to a point, where majority on console, with PlayStation having a slight lead. If PC took the lead afterwards, it was due to being dirt cheap years after combined with the mod community being mature by a certain point to drum up long-term sales.

And the numbers about the cat game are directly from Sony, not from me. It was played by more users via the service than any other game in the PS+ catalog of games, because it was new and was worth considerably more to players than games that they likely already played years ago. At least that was true when Sony made that presentation, the stats could have changed by now. 🤷‍♂️

Well that is one metric to go by, but you even said it yourself: PS+ doesn't have a lot of Day 1 drops so it isn't saying too much that Stray was the biggest new release played in the service. It's not necessarily up against a bunch of competition.

Side note: I'm really surprised that you intentionally tried to obfuscate the facts by talking about games played outside those "rented" from the service. That's a really poor effort there when I was specifically discussing the games played from the PS+ catalog of games (the GP equivalent). People playing multiplayer games or games they purchased from the store are irrelevant to the conversation.

Okay fair enough but considering, again, how few Day 1 releases there are in PS+, it's not like Stray had a lot of competition. Virtua Fighter 5: Ultimate Showdown, Shadow Warrior 3, and a couple other games are the only notable Day 1 releases I can think of. And VF is a niche (these days) fighting game series; Shadow Warrior an even more niche FPS series.
 

Sorcerer

Member
No game has fully tapped the power of either console. No need for 'pro' versions, but if I were MS, I would phase out the Series S. It took 8+ or so years for older consoles to have games that truly tapped into the power. This generation there has been half a dozen (if that) games total that even use 75% of the power (if that). Certainly nothing close.
How could they possibly phase out the S without pissing off their customers? Do some kind of trade in on top of a discount for the X to make it worth it? Maybe the customer only shells out 100 bucks after the trade in?
If there is a next gen console from Microsoft, they can't make this dual console mistake again.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
If MS drops out of the console race then it’s quite possible that the specs for PS6 will be hugely disappointing (with no competition other than the successor to the Switch). Need competition so I really hope MS gets their ass in gear if they acquire Activision Blizzard. Sony turned around the disastrous launch of the PS3 by consistently releasing high quality games In the latter half of that consoles life. So no, isn’t hardware that’s the problem, if’s software by a long shot.
 

damidu

Member
No game has fully tapped the power of either console. No need for 'pro' versions, but if I were MS, I would phase out the Series S. It took 8+ or so years for older consoles to have games that truly tapped into the power. This generation there has been half a dozen (if that) games total that even use 75% of the power (if that). Certainly nothing close.
wake up. there is no secret power to tap into by 7th year of the gen. if anything you’ll get worse performance as we progress.
your “real” next gen games on series x are already getting limited to 30fps.

yeah there is a need for pro consoles, only you won’t get it from ms side, because they royally fucked themselves with series s.
 

GHG

Member
I dont have disdain for sony, I'm a playstation fan but I'm not a corporate ballwasher, cheerleading everything they do. Sony were the first ones to set these prices in Europehttps://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/playstation-confirms-its-ps5-games-will-cost-70/.

All you have done with this post is prove that you are indeed blind to the truth. The hint is even there in the very article you posted:

mimicking an industry-wide trend towards more expensive games on next-gen consoles.

And the truth is as follows, 2k and Activision were amongst those who were first to set higher game prices, not only in Europe, but worldwide:


 

Three

Member
If MS drops out of the console race then it’s quite possible that the specs for PS6 will be hugely disappointing (with no competition other than the successor to the Switch). Need competition so I really hope MS gets their ass in gear if they acquire Activision Blizzard. Sony turned around the disastrous launch of the PS3 by consistently releasing high quality games In the latter half of that consoles life. So no, isn’t hardware that’s the problem, if’s software by a long shot.
Definitely them dropping out would be bad for everyone but I'm somewhat glad the plan didn't work for MS either because had Series S paved the way and sold the most consoles you can bet your bottom dollar the PS6 would have followed and the specs would have been disappointing for different reasons. Maybe even worse than if MS had dropped out.
 
If MS drops out of the console race then it’s quite possible that the specs for PS6 will be hugely disappointing (with no competition other than the successor to the Switch). Need competition so I really hope MS gets their ass in gear if they acquire Activision Blizzard. Sony turned around the disastrous launch of the PS3 by consistently releasing high quality games In the latter half of that consoles life. So no, isn’t hardware that’s the problem, if’s software by a long shot.
or make the next Nintendo hardware hugely surprising.

but the irony of your statement is that if hardware is not the problem but software is. then PS6 hardware specs are irrelevant if the software is there.
 
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