Yeah point and shoot isn't great. Luckily it is improving in newer phones, look at the 830 vs the 1020 http://www.anandtech.com/show/8726/nokia-lumia-830-review/5
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Windows Phone 8.1 |OT| Update 1
- Thread starter brotkasten
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Yeah point and shoot isn't great. Luckily it is improving in newer phones, look at the 830 vs the 1020 http://www.anandtech.com/show/8726/nokia-lumia-830-review/5
The question is whether the Xenon flash is really necessary. I mean it works very well on the 1020 (apart from the colours not being right). but if the next gen LED flash is a good step up from the old one, then there's probably not too much of a downgrade.
On the sensor front itself, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to improve on the 1020, even if it's still by far and away the best camera phone out there.
And on the software front they can definitely still step things up by a lot.
I need a 1030. I need it.
On the sensor front itself, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to improve on the 1020, even if it's still by far and away the best camera phone out there.
And on the software front they can definitely still step things up by a lot.
I need a 1030. I need it.
Having read up a bit on the advancements of electronic shutters, I don't know that removing the mechanical shutter would necessarily be a downgrade, btw.
It might be, but there's no way of telling before they talk about the technology they're using.
If the phone exists, of course.
It might be, but there's no way of telling before they talk about the technology they're using.
If the phone exists, of course.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
I think some of that was hardware related. The shot to shot times, which caused you to miss some opportunities, was definitely the chipset. I think Nokia/Microsoft has worked out a lot of the default settings to the point where your average shot will look great, as evidenced by the newer phones, so I'm not really worried about that.
That said, the degree to which the average 1020 photo was "Ok" vs. the iPhone is overstated. Part of the perception gap is how quickly the iPhone takes a picture and how simple it is to take multiple shots very quickly, making it easier to find a good photo. You can't do that on the 1020. The iPhone takes just as many crappy pictures in default as the 1020, it's just that you can compensate by taking more, and more quickly.
Are ghost touches and the screen locking up typically software or hardware related? Not sure if it's the DP (yea yea, I still haven't reset my Icon) or what but I get a ghost touch in the top left of the screen a lot and the screen also doesn't respond to touches a good chunk of time. Not sure if it's something that I should consider resetting for or if I should see if I can get a replacement. I don't remember this happening when I was on WP8 before switching to the DP.
Agree with Van about the point and shoot performance of the 1020 being much much better than some would have you believe. When I compare my "quick" snaps to those of iPhone users, mine are almost inevitably superior. Not sure how you would fail to get decent shots with it.
Obviously as mentioned, there's a lot of work to be done when it comes to speed, though. It's really very bad.
Obviously as mentioned, there's a lot of work to be done when it comes to speed, though. It's really very bad.
Let's get hypothetical, think a SD 805 or an potentially an 810 would have enough grunt to give quick image processing for fast shot to shot times?
I think with the hardware team Microsoft has at it's disposal now whatever comes to replace the 1020 should be a good device. We've support for more modern SoCs, Nokia team generally pick great displays, camera is already stellar. If they're not going to add an SD card I hope that the 1020 successor will offer a 64GB option like the 1020 did.
What else... oh good battery life. That'd be nice. 5" 1080p screen, 20nm SD 810 and a 2600-2800 mah battery could be a nice recipe.
I'm trying to resist getting too fantastical with hypothetical specs but... fuck it
SD810
32GB/64GB (or ideally 32GB with Micro SD)
5" display at 1080p
A refinement of the 1020 camera sensor, lens etc.
2800 mah battery plus QI charging
I think with the hardware team Microsoft has at it's disposal now whatever comes to replace the 1020 should be a good device. We've support for more modern SoCs, Nokia team generally pick great displays, camera is already stellar. If they're not going to add an SD card I hope that the 1020 successor will offer a 64GB option like the 1020 did.
What else... oh good battery life. That'd be nice. 5" 1080p screen, 20nm SD 810 and a 2600-2800 mah battery could be a nice recipe.
I'm trying to resist getting too fantastical with hypothetical specs but... fuck it
SD810
32GB/64GB (or ideally 32GB with Micro SD)
5" display at 1080p
A refinement of the 1020 camera sensor, lens etc.
2800 mah battery plus QI charging
brotkasten
Member
Windows 10 Phone will save us all and bring fresh new hardware across all carriers.
Braswell phones for all.
Speaking anecdotally, from a vacation last year where a friend had his iPhone 5s with him, and me my 1020, day shots, my 1020 creamed his phone, though, as pointed out, he could take many more in quick succession, resulting in better pictures at times (not quality-wise, but motif-wise).
Nighttime though, I kept having to fiddle with my settings to get a good shot, as the point and shoot shots kept coming out poorly, he on the other hand, just did point and shoot (with many pictures), and got better results.
My sister who is a camera geek could get some incredible shots with my 1020, with indoor lighting only, when she was visiting last year. So yes, it's a good camera, but at times, I'd much rather have the speed and ease of the iPhone than the many settings of the 1020.
The night performance is not brilliant on automatic, that's for sure. When you compare it to the 920 it's quite a step down without playing with the settings.
It's one of the things they have to address software wise. Another one are the colours on automatic with flash and also under artificial light, they're just not right. So under those circumstances other phones could conceivably produce better results. In general though, no other phone can touch the 1020 even on automatic settings, not by a long shot.
It's one of the things they have to address software wise. Another one are the colours on automatic with flash and also under artificial light, they're just not right. So under those circumstances other phones could conceivably produce better results. In general though, no other phone can touch the 1020 even on automatic settings, not by a long shot.
brotkasten
Member
That's why the whole tech press is saying that the iPhone camera is unmatched. It's not necessarily about the quality of the single shots, but a combination of speed, quality and ease of use. Apparently Samsung comes close.
Speaking of shamelessly copying features, now that most Windows Phones lack a dedicated camera button, why does the OS not support the volume button as a replacement? It's a pretty good "better than nothing" solution. The iPhone does it, Android does it. What gives?
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
SD card support is a must IMO. 805 is good enough to substantially improve shot times, I suspect. Everything else is table stakes, MS doesn't need to reinvent the wheel here. Nokia already did the massive innovation piece, just refine it.
Doesn't the Windows HTC One have it? It's one of the motion launch features of the android version and my understanding is most of those were ported over. Too bad none of us bought it to check, lol. If anyone has one and wants to try, keep the phone off and then you have to place the phone in a horizontal position in front of you and press the volume down button. That should launch the camera.
Doesn't the Windows HTC One have it? It's one of the motion launch features of the android version and my understanding is most of those were ported over. Too bad none of us bought it to check, lol. If anyone has one and wants to try, keep the phone off and then you have to place the phone in a horizontal position in front of you and press the volume down button. That should launch the camera.
Windows Phone deals with SD cards so well now it'd be a no brainer not to offer it imo.
Agree on that. It's just a matter of refinement. There is already solid foundations laid.
juliushandle
Member
the 1020, prior to the latest upgrades, had some horrible white balance issues. couple that with the slow start up and shot to shot time and you get why some said the iphone took better pics.
the 1020's camera module was never the problem, it was the chipset and the software, imo. the 808 camera used software image stabilization while the 1020's was mechanical. if nokia updated the software where the 1020 used a combination of software and mechanical stabilization then i think pictures/videos would improve.
also, i think the 1020's camera hump is something that could be improved upon. it just feels weird to hold in hand, even to this day i can't get use to it. the rumored 1030 pics look even more odd as the hump is more pronounced and looks to have sharp edges around the hump. i really don't think they could have made it thinner but what about toying with the idea that the entire camera module be detachable? much like those snap on Qi charging shells, how about a snap-on 41mp camera module? this way you get a completely flat premium phone with a built in 20mp camera inside but when you need a better camera simply snap-on the 41mp camera hump. they can even produce a small camera hump case for a lanyard and/or keychain.
the 1020's camera module was never the problem, it was the chipset and the software, imo. the 808 camera used software image stabilization while the 1020's was mechanical. if nokia updated the software where the 1020 used a combination of software and mechanical stabilization then i think pictures/videos would improve.
also, i think the 1020's camera hump is something that could be improved upon. it just feels weird to hold in hand, even to this day i can't get use to it. the rumored 1030 pics look even more odd as the hump is more pronounced and looks to have sharp edges around the hump. i really don't think they could have made it thinner but what about toying with the idea that the entire camera module be detachable? much like those snap on Qi charging shells, how about a snap-on 41mp camera module? this way you get a completely flat premium phone with a built in 20mp camera inside but when you need a better camera simply snap-on the 41mp camera hump. they can even produce a small camera hump case for a lanyard and/or keychain.
If by "OK" pictures, you mean quickly taking blurry shots of kids running around... then yeah, I guess an iPhone would be better for that.
I rarely play around with the advanced photo settings on my 1020 when shooting (only reframing/editing afterwards) and I get better "pont-and-shoot" photos than others 99% of the time. I am actually pretty surprised at how poor the photos are from the iPhones that my family members use (haven't tried the 6 yet though), but that is probably more their inability than the phone/camera. My wife is comfortable using our DSLR and takes good photos with it, but she can't take a good photo with her 5c.
I should add though, that I do agree that the 1020 is too slow in many situations. I have learned to compensate for it, but I would have really liked to see them put a better processor in it.
Anton Sugar
Member
Never used it. I bought a 520 to use as a cheap media player for the gym, beach, etc. WP 8.1 basically turned it into a piece of shit.
Exactly.
People ask me about the hump all the time. They're impressed.
It's good to have a big black extension.
edit: you should read that with a Carry On voice, btw.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
The Lumia 1020 can produce amazingly detailed photos, but it is so damned SLOW and the white balance is so over the fucking place it is nigh impossible to take a quick picture of something happening right at the moment.
I hate to say this, but iPhones best it when it comes to snap a quick picture. Picture quality is fine at the first try more often than not, and the camera app doesn't require several seconds to load, which is outright embarrassing.
I'm eternally annoyed by how Microsoft has the strongest photo-inclined line of devices out there, yet it continues to shit the bed in terms of white balance and slow ass camera apps.
I hate to say this, but iPhones best it when it comes to snap a quick picture. Picture quality is fine at the first try more often than not, and the camera app doesn't require several seconds to load, which is outright embarrassing.
I'm eternally annoyed by how Microsoft has the strongest photo-inclined line of devices out there, yet it continues to shit the bed in terms of white balance and slow ass camera apps.
I'll chime in, but in regards to my 1520.
First, I'll do the iPhone 6 comparison! My aunt got one a few weeks back and my cousin and I were playing around with it versus my 1520. 1520 beat it easily in terms of image quality on a pixel level.... To even get close to the exposure of iPhone 6 defaults though, I had to use exposure compensation, adjust the WB manually, etc... Not to mention the iPhone takes pics much faster....
In comparison to my old Lumia 920... Oi... What went wrong here. I used to disable the AF assist light on the 920 cause the pics would always focus fine even in very dim. Why in the world.does my 1520 need so much freaking light to even begin to get a proper focus on things?? The AF assist light is blinding to anyone you're taking a picture of too.
I 'like' the 1520 camera but it is definitely a step back from iPhone and not to mention even Nokia's older cameras themselves.
First, I'll do the iPhone 6 comparison! My aunt got one a few weeks back and my cousin and I were playing around with it versus my 1520. 1520 beat it easily in terms of image quality on a pixel level.... To even get close to the exposure of iPhone 6 defaults though, I had to use exposure compensation, adjust the WB manually, etc... Not to mention the iPhone takes pics much faster....
In comparison to my old Lumia 920... Oi... What went wrong here. I used to disable the AF assist light on the 920 cause the pics would always focus fine even in very dim. Why in the world.does my 1520 need so much freaking light to even begin to get a proper focus on things?? The AF assist light is blinding to anyone you're taking a picture of too.
I 'like' the 1520 camera but it is definitely a step back from iPhone and not to mention even Nokia's older cameras themselves.
juliushandle
Member
perhaps the erratic white balance issues are why we don't see a xenon flash in the 1030.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
You must be the only Lumia user without WB issues as far as I know. Go to a floristry and try to snap a quick picture of the street and then another one of a bunch of brightly coloured flowers. WB goes all over the place in a moment.
I don't know. I've also had huge WB issues with the 830 (which is a decent improvement in this particular area, tbh) and the 920. I really, really like my 920. It is the best smartphone I've ever owned and I believe its combination of features and design remains unmatched, but some times it gets the best of me.
Pretty hyperbolic response right there tbh. It being able to take great shots in daylight isn't the issue, it's indoors, night shots etc, that it completely messes up in point and shoot scenarios. Hell some night shots I can't even get the yellow tint out no matter how much I change the settings.
I didn't say that I didn't, just that in natural daylight there's no problem. I mentioned above that in artificial light and especially with the flash on, it is an issue.
Not sure where I said that it wasn't an issue.
I just said that to say that it's impossible to take a decent photo with the 1020 on automatic is bollocks. Because, you know, it's bollocks.
I don't think anyone said it's impossible to take a decent photo with the 1020 on automatic, I know I didn't, I even specifically said the 1020 "creamed" my friends iPhone in daylight. It's night and indoor shots that can be pretty bad on point and shoot. and the damned speed.
Anyway, we're saying the same thing I think, but it seems you think the 1020 is fine cause it can take point and shoot in daylight, and I think it's not fine cause it can't take a good point and shoot in every other situation.
Yes, I think we're arguing over nothing.
I don't think it's fine, I said that there's a lot of work to be done on both the software and sensor front. I just think that the notion that the iPhone is a magic camera that works wonders in all circumstances is incorrect.
Pictures in daylight are not an uncommon thing, they're probably the most relevant scenario.
I don't think it's fine, I said that there's a lot of work to be done on both the software and sensor front. I just think that the notion that the iPhone is a magic camera that works wonders in all circumstances is incorrect.
Pictures in daylight are not an uncommon thing, they're probably the most relevant scenario.
Poindexter
Member
With my 920 on its last leg and att.com telling me the 1520 was in store only and none in my area I bought the nexus 6. I'll pay it off in about 3-4 months so if a new windows phone comes out I can switch easily. But I'm going to miss this OS. It might be nice to try something new for awhile though.
brotkasten
Member
I think we need a formal Windows Phone GAF cycle. Similar to the Android GAF one.
No new high end devices /too many low end devices
Next update is gonna be great
Updates comes too slow
Camera is too slow
Where is my 1030?
Did I miss something?
No new high end devices /too many low end devices
Next update is gonna be great
Updates comes too slow
Camera is too slow
Where is my 1030?
Did I miss something?
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Yeah, you missed the one where we all drop our phones, shatter the screen, and buy android phones. Though it's related to the lack of high end phones.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/21/dell-lightning-the-ultimate-windows-phone-7-device-leaks-out/
The leak that made me want a WP. I never ended up even seeing a DVP (that name
I loved "Lightning"), bought an Omnia 7 on launch instead.
The leak that made me want a WP. I never ended up even seeing a DVP (that name
I loved "Lightning"), bought an Omnia 7 on launch instead.Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Joe don't hurt them.
Anton Sugar
Member
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/21/dell-lightning-the-ultimate-windows-phone-7-device-leaks-out/
The leak that made me want a WP. I never ended up even seeing a DVP (that name
Haha, same here. The glassy/sleek look of the Dell Lightning really brought my attention to the OS.
Of course, I ended up getting a launch Samsung Focus, but still. It seems so long ago!
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
My first windows phone was a Focus as well. That was a nice phone. My wife had a Quantum.
juliushandle
Member
OMG, just downloaded and opened the Netflix app. wholly shit it looks the same as it did on my HD7. geezus!!!
do we need to get more vocal? FB mssg and tweet these app developers?
do we need to get more vocal? FB mssg and tweet these app developers?
big companies don't care about wp. and most only do one update every major os revision so don't bother.
You'll just get a "we are continually monitoring the market of smartphones, and do our best to meet our customers demands, but we currently have no plans on updating our Windows Phone app"
Switch the last part to "have no plans on releasing a windows phone app" and you've got pretty much every companies response covered.
Hell, I've even seen companies that do have Windows Phone apps not advertise that fact on their websites.
Anton Sugar
Member
Sooo, my data connection has been acting strange:
-I can send individual texts, but not group texts
-I cannot send pictures via text
-I cannot actually use "data" except for phone, IM (again, individual texts). When I am away from wifi, anything that uses data (music, IE...all apps) don't download any new data
I logged into ATT.com and don't see any weird notices. Bill has been paid, and on-time. I have rebooted, soft reset, etc.
I have not hard reset yet, because I don't want to deal with setting shit back up, even with a backup.
Any ideas?
-I can send individual texts, but not group texts
-I cannot send pictures via text
-I cannot actually use "data" except for phone, IM (again, individual texts). When I am away from wifi, anything that uses data (music, IE...all apps) don't download any new data
I logged into ATT.com and don't see any weird notices. Bill has been paid, and on-time. I have rebooted, soft reset, etc.
I have not hard reset yet, because I don't want to deal with setting shit back up, even with a backup.
Any ideas?
I've been having a strange issue where when people send group texts to me my phone number is also inside the group so when I respond I'm texting myself.
juliushandle
Member
Huawei exec gives harsh but probably true words about the platform.
http://www.phonedog.com/2014/12/01/...y-windows-phone-says-nobody-made-any-money-os
http://www.phonedog.com/2014/12/01/...y-windows-phone-says-nobody-made-any-money-os