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Windows Phone 8.1 |OT| Update 1

S

stktt

Banned
I'm going to be mildly irritated and post negative comments on the internet if the 930 isn't eligible for this preview build. Feel my wrath, Microsoft!
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
joshschw said:
They shredded the wp7 design guidelines book by mistake, and lastflowers as an intern had to tape it back together.

This is all his fault.

-----

That new People App looks like just generic ios and android stuff now.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I don't think the strategy of making your OS more like the two OS with vastly larger market share is a good idea. Basically saying, we are like the other guys now, but with less apps and compatible devices and services, so give us a go.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
JaggedSac said:
Yeah. I don't think the strategy of making your OS more like the two OS with vastly larger market share is a good idea. Basically saying, we are like the other guys now, but with less apps and compatible devices and services, so give us a go.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand it. I can see some concession when it comes to designing universal apps, but it feels like they're just chucking out entire components of Modern/Metro.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
hadareud said:
I don't see the problem with the all apps thing myself at all. You have to be a purist of the worst (or best if you prefer) kind to give a fuck.

I think it's fair to say that WP is not as clean as it used to be, mainly because new things and features got bolted on over time and made a bit of a mess of the initial simplicity.

Let's wait for what W10 brings design wise. It's a good opportunity for an updated direction and to bring everything back to a unified design again.

With hamburger menus.
Click to expand...

I'm a guy who's excited about Android 5.1, because it adds an animation to the rotation lock switch in the quick settings menu. This shit is important to me, so yes, I'm "a purist of the worst" and I'm not sorry for that.

What Windows 10 brings design wise is straight up garbage so far and I know people who are currently working on it, that would agree. They obviously get the benefit of the doubt, because the bits we have right now are super early and far from polished or finalized and things are obviously going to change (like the now public people app vs the "current" one in the preview). I'm just not sure if all changes are for the better when it comes to the design.

Of course my opinion on all this is a bit tarnished, because I'm still in my honeymoon phase with Lollipop. Needless to say that iOS still looks like a four year old played around with bright crayons.

Funky Papa said:
Heads up from Barcelona: those virtual buttons at the bottom are a bitch and half to operate.

Clunky as hell.
Click to expand...

Don't mention that in the Android thread. Some people genuinely think they're good. I don't mind them most of the time, but they are a waste of screen space and I'd prefer capacitive buttons any given moment. Maybe it's Microsoft's implementation that sucks.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
brotkasten said:
I'm a guy who's excited about Android 5.1, because it adds an animation to the rotation lock switch in the quick settings menu. This shit is important to me, so yes, I'm "a purist of the worst" and I'm not sorry for that.
Click to expand...

No need to be sorry.

Most of us are a bit mental. Some more, some less.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
MCD said:
The "All Apps" instead of arrow is functional and better. Metro is dead. Move along, folks.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily agree. There is no more functionality added by this.

Currently, if a user has no idea what that arrow does, they can type/swipe, and they're instantly educated: it leads to all apps.

The UI doesn't have to have "All Apps" there all the time. I know it's nitpicky, but I gotta agree with Brot on this one. Little "insignificant" details are what separates good UI from average/bad. "All Apps" feels extraneous and only helps brand new users, that first time.
 
V

Vyer

Member
brotkasten said:
I'm a guy who's excited about Android 5.1, because it adds an animation to the rotation lock switch in the quick settings menu. This shit is important to me, so yes, I'm "a purist of the worst" and I'm not sorry for that.

What Windows 10 brings design wise is straight up garbage so far and I know people who are currently working on it, that would agree. They obviously get the benefit of the doubt, because the bits we have right now are super early and far from polished or finalized and things are obviously going to change (like the now public people app vs the "current" one in the preview). I'm just not sure if all changes are for the better when it comes to the design.

Of course my opinion on all this is a bit tarnished, because I'm still in my honeymoon phase with Lollipop. Needless to say that iOS still looks like a four year old played around with bright crayons.

.
Click to expand...

huh?
 
M

Magni

Member
Anton Sugar said:
I don't necessarily agree. There is no more functionality added by this.

Currently, if a user has no idea what that arrow does, they can type/swipe, and they're instantly educated: it leads to all apps.

The UI doesn't have to have "All Apps" there all the time. I know it's nitpicky, but I gotta agree with Brot on this one. Little "insignificant" details are what separates good UI from average/bad. "All Apps" feels extraneous and only helps brand new users, that first time.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Unlike the gutter or the three-column layout, I don't see how you can defend this change.
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
If you think that change was made for shits and giggles, you're wrong. You'd be surprised at how difficult it is for some people to learn how to get to All Apps. This was one of the obvious things that was easily fixed.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Looking forward to the new build. The photo app is garbage. When I look at photos they go from crisp to blurry, good times!
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Right, but that first impression kinda sucks. It's just shitty. I shouldn't have to fiddle around and change the phone's settings so it becomes more usable.
 
M

Magni

Member
dLMN8R said:
If you think that change was made for shits and giggles, you're wrong. You'd be surprised at how difficult it is for some people to learn how to get to All Apps. This was one of the obvious things that was easily fixed.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not. I do user testing all the time for our app. "Our users are drunk".

But for this kind of thing... it's something you learn once. No need to make it ugly for everyone all the time. I'm not a fan of tutorials, but this is the perfect use case.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
dLMN8R said:
If you think that change was made for shits and giggles, you're wrong. You'd be surprised at how difficult it is for some people to learn how to get to All Apps. This was one of the obvious things that was easily fixed.
Click to expand...
The address bar at the top is there for shits and giggles.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
dLMN8R said:
If you think that change was made for shits and giggles, you're wrong. You'd be surprised at how difficult it is for some people to learn how to get to All Apps. This was one of the obvious things that was easily fixed.
Click to expand...

Curious: is MS still using focus groups to determine features that are wanted/need?

Having flashbacks to WP7. Was it focus groups that determined we didn't need a screenshot function? Or was it something else?
 
H

hwalker84

Member
Anton Sugar said:
Curious: is MS still using focus groups to determine features that are wanted/need?

Having flashbacks to WP7. Was it focus groups that determined we didn't need a screenshot function? Or was it something else?
Click to expand...

Find on Page in IE if I recall correctly. Well at least that was one thing.
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
There's a difference between focus groups and user research. Microsoft primarily uses user research.

Teams always design their own features using their own intuition, their own goals and inspiration, adherence to the Design team's guidelines, and analysis of the competition. They'll then seek out real people to test designs - recruiting thousands of real people of all skill levels, areas of expertise, segregated by platforms they currently use, etc. They'll be presented with prototypes or real implementations, they'll be asked to do specific things, and members of the teams will observe usually without asking any questions.

The teams then look at all the videos, feedback, etc. and make their own decisions about what it means and determine what works and what needs to be improved.


An unclear arrow changing to say "all apps" is an easy thing that simply makes sense to everyone instantly, and no, it doesn't marginalize the design language. You have to have some pretty arbitrarily strict definition of what a "design language" is if you think that this change is somehow ruining Metro.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
The photos hub was the perfect example of pretty metro yet daunting for new users. All the panorama UI with the cut in text was too much just to share a pic.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
All Apps is one thing.

The Photos app where the icons and their layout have nothing to do with any other app anymore is what really makes me wonder about Metro.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
hwalker84 said:
Find on Page in IE if I recall correctly. Well at least that was one thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was one of them, but I thought there were a few others early in its lifespan. Oh well.

dLMN8R said:
There's a difference between focus groups and user research. Microsoft primarily uses user research.

Teams always design their own features using their own intuition, their own goals and inspiration, adherence to the Design team's guidelines, and analysis of the competition. They'll then seek out real people to test designs - recruiting thousands of real people of all skill levels, areas of expertise, segregated by platforms they currently use, etc. They'll be presented with prototypes or real implementations, they'll be asked to do specific things, and members of the teams will observe usually without asking any questions.

The teams then look at all the videos, feedback, etc. and make their own decisions about what it means and determine what works and what needs to be improved.


An unclear arrow changing to say "all apps" is an easy thing that simply makes sense to everyone instantly, and no, it doesn't marginalize the design language. You have to have some pretty arbitrarily strict definition of what a "design language" is if you think that this change is somehow ruining Metro.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. "All Apps" is small potatoes compared to a lot of the other questionable design changes being made, but it's too early to judge now, I suppose.

Milchjon said:
All Apps is one thing.

The Photos app where the icons and their layout have nothing to do with any other app anymore is what really makes me wonder about Metro.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Photos app is a horrid mess, in terms of design AND performance. Here's hoping it improves.

Now that WP 8.1 has been out for a while: what the fuck is happening with Xbox Music? It's much better than it was at launch but is still very bad.

I'm guessing development on the 8.1 version stopped once W10 was set into motion?

hadareud said:
It was apps.
Click to expand...

ie2QLZCaHjyhI.gif
 
P

PG2G

Member
Anton Sugar said:
Now that WP 8.1 has been out for a while: what the fuck is happening with Xbox Music? It's much better than it was at launch but is still very bad.

I'm guessing development on the 8.1 version stopped once W10 was set into motion?
Click to expand...

Yeah, they announced that. Xbox Music is actually good enough oh my 1520, the updated hardware made it much more tolerable.
 
J

joshschw

Member
The All Apps thing only befuddles me due to the fact that Android and iOS are swamped in random icons that have no text cues what they mean and no one seems to be bothered or mind the sheer insanity of it, from my experiences.

Android and iOS are nearly impossible to figure out without lots of trial and error.
So all of a sudden these same people are clamoring for an All Apps cue on WP? I somehow doubt it.

At the end of the day it does not bother me. Not a big deal. I just don't get how on other platforms the day to day usage of the phones is trial and error until you learn the quirks but on WP he have to have text labels for things like the apps listing...
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I can't decide which is worst: All apps or nav bar at the top of internet explorer.

But seriously, this OS was so carefully crafted, now its getting deconstructed. I remember how much time they spent on keyboard sounds and ringtones. Those guys built a beautiful thing. Too bad nobody cared. Ditto Zune.
 
M

Magni

Member
VanMardigan said:
I can't decide which is worst: All apps or nav bar at the top of internet explorer.

But seriously, this OS was so carefully crafted, now its getting deconstructed. I remember how much time they spent on keyboard sounds and ringtones. Those guys built a beautiful thing. Too bad nobody cared. Ditto Zune.
Click to expand...

Wait, the URL bar is at the top of IE in 8.1.2 ?
 
M

Milchjon

Member
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind the nav bar at the top, besides continuity. Maybe the least sensible change in the history of the OS so far, and I wonder if it's really gonna stay that way.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
dLMN8R said:
An unclear arrow changing to say "all apps" is an easy thing that simply makes sense to everyone instantly, and no, it doesn't marginalize the design language. You have to have some pretty arbitrarily strict definition of what a "design language" is if you think that this change is somehow ruining Metro.
Click to expand...

Can I see some examples where else it's used like this throughout apps and the OS?

joshschw said:
The All Apps thing only befuddles me due to the fact that Android and iOS are swamped in random icons that have no text cues what they mean and no one seems to be bothered or mind the sheer insanity of it, from my experiences.

Android and iOS are nearly impossible to figure out without lots of trial and error.
So all of a sudden these same people are clamoring for an All Apps cue on WP? I somehow doubt it.

At the end of the day it does not bother me. Not a big deal. I just don't get how on other platforms the day to day usage of the phones is trial and error until you learn the quirks but on WP he have to have text labels for things like the apps listing...
Click to expand...

Maybe Windows Phone users are just dumb and need everything spelled out to them. Literally!

Milchjon said:
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind the nav bar at the top, besides continuity. Maybe the least sensible change in the history of the OS so far, and I wonder if it's really gonna stay that way.
Click to expand...

"Every other mobile browser has the address bar there, so we need to have ours there as well.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
dLMN8R said:
Where else in the operating system does anything like the Start Screen exist?
Click to expand...

I was talking about the UI element "spelled out arrow" and you're still talking like a start screen is some new and confusing concept. But I guess it is the better way to do it after all.

It inspired me to fix Google's launcher as well.

gSp29zr.png


Yes, I know what you guys are going to say. I know, it's not as pretty as it was before and it's certainly not as elegant. But it should be a whole lot less confusing now.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
dLMN8R said:
If you think that change was made for shits and giggles, you're wrong. You'd be surprised at how difficult it is for some people to learn how to get to All Apps. This was one of the obvious things that was easily fixed.
Click to expand...
Can't that appear as a hint at first, and then go away or something like that?

That way you have new users educated, and still keep the good design.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
Our beautiful OS is going the way of the dodo. I truly hope that by the time WP10 is released it doesn't resemble a crappy android skin.
 
7

7echnicolor

Member
lastflowers said:
nav bar in the top of ie is a disaster!
Click to expand...

Milchjon said:
I'd love to hear the reasoning behind the nav bar at the top, besides continuity. Maybe the least sensible change in the history of the OS so far, and I wonder if it's really gonna stay that way.
Click to expand...

VanMardigan said:
I can't decide which is worst: All apps or nav bar at the top of internet explorer.

But seriously, this OS was so carefully crafted, now its getting deconstructed. I remember how much time they spent on keyboard sounds and ringtones. Those guys built a beautiful thing. Too bad nobody cared. Ditto Zune.
Click to expand...

Isn't there a place to give user feedback for people who have the Windows 10 developers preview for phones? Having the nav bar at the top is an absolutely idiotic design decision.
 
C

clav

Member
I guess we can do a tally here.

How many people on this board use WP?

I want to switch, but where's the flagship?
 
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