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Windows Phone 8.1 |OT| Update 1
- Thread starter brotkasten
- Start date
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Jesus Christ, Warren.
That man is going to be insufferable when he reaches Mossberg's age.
That man is going to be insufferable when he reaches Mossberg's age.
brotkasten
Member
Did he tweet that before or after Microsoft announced that Dell and HP are going to resell Surface Pro devices to enterprise customers?
e: In other news:
e: In other news:
Steelyuhas
Member
I love the head in the silicon valley clouds tech journalists that think Windows 90% market share is going to evaporate tomorrow because Apple is going to release an iOS device with a keyboard cover and Windows 8 style snapping.
So I got my BB-8 today, still no Windows Phone app from Sphero for it (why did I even hope?), so figured, hell I've got W10preview on my 1020, I'll try Astoria. App seems to install fine, but not sure if the 1020 is just too slow for it, as it's stuck on the splash screen. So now I've got a 190 dollar toy on my desk that I can't use yet, damn it.
No ones fault but my own of course. I never learn...
No ones fault but my own of course. I never learn...
brotkasten
Member
It's what was predicted to happen. Nokia name slapped on some random ODM phone.
Sky Interloper
Member
Considering their tablet was a iPad look-alike, it doesn't surprise me. It's just sad.
Will they sell it in the West, or keep the same markets as their latest device? After all, it seems the focus of Nokia is now in their networks business, and with good reason.
I already did that
LostMyNarbles
Member
Tom Warren Is crazy if he thinks people are going to be replacing their laptop's with a $600-$700 iPad "Pro" when the only thing I've gathered from it so far is that it's a larger iPad that also has keyboard attachments.
brotkasten
Member
In their defense, we know absolutely nothing about how successful the Surface Pro 3 has been so far.
Sky Interloper
Member
I just don't understand why people see an iPad Pro taking on Windows when all reports point to it using iOS. Yes, Apple is a giant on mobile, but the sheer quantity of programs written on Windows aren't going to disappear or move on a whim. If there's something that IT managers like to enforce is control, and they aren't going to easily relinquish that power to Apple.
Of course, that doesn't mean that nobody will use it. I'm sure many people in startups and the like make limited use of Enterprise software compared to big companies, and I see Cupertino going for that market. After all, there's a competent version of Office for iOS.
Still, I expect The Verge to write articles like that embarassing one for the Apple Watch.
Of course, that doesn't mean that nobody will use it. I'm sure many people in startups and the like make limited use of Enterprise software compared to big companies, and I see Cupertino going for that market. After all, there's a competent version of Office for iOS.
Still, I expect The Verge to write articles like that embarassing one for the Apple Watch.
Absolutely nothing isn't quite right. We know that it's generating decent revenue.
Decent, not amazing, of course.
With iPad Pro, employees can fall in love without even working in the same office.
LukasTaves
Member
I don't know, if I was Satya I would be absolutely terrified by an iPad pro.
The blame is all on Ms, but they just have taken too much time getting their shit together, and now there's a real chance the iPad pro comes out before Ms even finishes their mobile OS version with their main features on board like multi tasking and pen support.
And unlike Ms who is still battling for support on their new legacy free and walled garden platform ios already have all the devs ready to make productivity apps as soon as the OS allows them.
I wouldn't doubt apple featuring multi tasking, a modern (read: touch capable) file system, and system wide pen support with the security ios provides , and perhaps even proper mouse and keyboard supportbefore Ms is even able to finish win10.
And even if start UPS and new companies start using iPads that's bad for Ms, because when those companies grow they will be locked on the apple ecosystem, and by then it might very well be a match for the windows freedom and productivity.
While I agree on the quality of tech blogs, I can't fault them here when even Ms is so secretive about sales (and that's usually a sign that's not very great, even if it's generating profit)
Just curious, what benefit would an iPad Pro have over currently used devices? Users will like using it more?
I don't agree.
Benedict Evans
Ben Thompson
Ben Bajarin
Far more insightful and smarter analysis than 99% of the stuff out there.
Poodlestrike
Banned
It's got a pretty picture on the back.
Sky Interloper
Member
It is as you say. The Ballmer era hubris is going to haunt MS for a while, at least until they finally became the leaner company they needed to be when the iPhone first released. But if Apple wants a shot at the future of Enterprise they need to be able to match Microsoft's administrative tools (Active Directory) and more importantly, they need to invest in the cloud, an historically deficient area for them.
It's true. At least this last couple of years, Apple has done moves to increase their appeal to Enterprise. And considering their accomplishments until now, it wouldn't surprise me if they do it again. It just seems a little unrealistic at this point, considering how monolitic are processes inside big companies. And that's not even considering highly specialized areas that are even less likely to change.
brotkasten
Member
That tells us that they're selling some devices and it's not a total failure. But we never got sales numbers and how much he profit it generates. And since they refuse to post the numbers, it can't be that good or impressive. Instead they always point to "look how much revenue the Surface made!". Well yeah, with the rip off that the accessories are, you better hope they made some revenue.
That's not a story you can write and honestly not the least bit interesting. Or do you not think that if they sold whatever amount would be impressive or more in a quarter, they would be shouting it from the rooftop?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Ars has gone down the drain lately with clickbait titles and garbage, sensationalist posts. There are days where it feels like the brainier, tea sipping version of the The Verge.
As a long time reader, it cuts to the bone.
Brad Sams is also worth a follow.
Also regarding iPad Pro:
Also regarding iPad Pro:
- I would say that people don't need IT to support the new iPad Pro, because most organisations already support the iPhone/iPad in a BYOD scenario
- That means, day 1, iPAd Pro users will be able to use their device for email, word, powerpoint, excel, etc. (yes support varies company to company)
- Most companies do not support Windows Phone/Windows 8.1 on a BYOD scenario - probably pro-actively don't
- What i will say, is that if my (backwards) company is rolling out Surface Pro's, and it is, then the SUrface Pro line has got to be hugely successful
Not that i want to suggest that you are having an argument with yourself, but I didn't use the words impressive or good.
The revenue numbers suggest that they are shifting a decent number, that's all I said.
I would be super surprised if they made a blatant Surface clone.
Roberto Larcos
Member
People who are writing off the iPad Pro.... do you not remember those who wrote off the iPad 1? Or iPhone? Or even the Apple Watch? It's Apple. It will gain traction - through advertising alone, even if it doesn't have tangible improvements over Windows 8 (I don't think Windows 10 is up to snuff for touch yet).
It may not be a Windows killer, but it could kill Windows for tablets. (That is, if you don't believe Windows 10 hasn't done that already.)
As for a Kickstand, Apple would rather include a keyboard that props it up properly (a la Lenovo Miix 3) than be seen to 'copy' Microsoft.
It may not be a Windows killer, but it could kill Windows for tablets. (That is, if you don't believe Windows 10 hasn't done that already.)
As for a Kickstand, Apple would rather include a keyboard that props it up properly (a la Lenovo Miix 3) than be seen to 'copy' Microsoft.
Agreed. It will be successful no matter what.
Tablets in general are in decline (which is the reason they are releasing this thing, btw), what Microsoft should be worried about is if it can replace cheap(ish) laptops.
They haven't had a problem copying Microsoft in the past, why would they now? Whenever they copy something from someone, they pretend to have invented it themselves anyway and deny any relation to whatever they copied. Once the thing is actually on sale nobody will give a shit about what is copied and what isn't.
Yep. This will reinvigorate their iPad sales like the larger iPhones reinvigorated their sales. They have actually been following market trends instead of creating them lately. Although, with the watch crap, that isn't following a market trend, that is slamming a square peg through a circle hole.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I work in/with media. Mostly with people from the business and tech sides of the trade. A shocking number of them have dropped their laptops in favour of iPads with Bluetooth keyboards. As a matter of fact, last time I was in London 1/4 of the people there were using iPads instead of laptops to write and send their stories.
iPads, not laptops. Not Surfaces. iPads.
Why?
Because iPads are MUCH thinner than a bulky ass laptop, offer excellent battery and are hugely convenient (can be used as readers, handheld Internet surfing devices and their chargers can also work with phones).
Those fellows just threw a couple of shirts and some trousers in a bag and they were ready to go from Madrid on a two day business trip. Meanwhile, I was stuck with a cumbersome and unstylish backpack in order to carry my gigantic Lenovo laptop and its required power brick, on top of a small trolley.
The truth is, the iPad is hugely convenient for people who just need to surf the internet to check press releases, read stories and write some stuff. Surface is kinda there, but it's still way too bulky and expensive for its own good.
So yeah, the iPad Pro will do good, even if it will most probably won't be able to compete with Surface in terms of sheer power and stylus. There's a market for it, as demonstrated by the sales of keyboard covers.
iPads, not laptops. Not Surfaces. iPads.
Why?
Because iPads are MUCH thinner than a bulky ass laptop, offer excellent battery and are hugely convenient (can be used as readers, handheld Internet surfing devices and their chargers can also work with phones).
Those fellows just threw a couple of shirts and some trousers in a bag and they were ready to go from Madrid on a two day business trip. Meanwhile, I was stuck with a cumbersome and unstylish backpack in order to carry my gigantic Lenovo laptop and its required power brick, on top of a small trolley.
The truth is, the iPad is hugely convenient for people who just need to surf the internet to check press releases, read stories and write some stuff. Surface is kinda there, but it's still way too bulky and expensive for its own good.
So yeah, the iPad Pro will do good, even if it will most probably won't be able to compete with Surface in terms of sheer power and stylus. There's a market for it, as demonstrated by the sales of keyboard covers.
It's not hard extrapolate a somewhat rough guess with just revenue numbers. Surface posted $888M revenue last quarter. Assume an ASP of $1000 or so (with the type cover) and it'll tell you they sell less than 1M units per quarter. Is that successful? Compared to iPads, not at all. Compared to MacBooks? No idea.
The Surface 3, which is the one competing with iPads (to a degree) isn't bulky at all and doesn't require a power brick either.
Even the SP3 isn't bulky. The only thing that's a bit annoying when travelling is the power brick and even that is fairly small.
By the way, if they can get their work done on an iPad, how menial is that job (no offense!).
Even the SP3 isn't bulky. The only thing that's a bit annoying when travelling is the power brick and even that is fairly small.
By the way, if they can get their work done on an iPad, how menial is that job (no offense!).
Macs are hitting about 4.5-5.5 million/quarter.
frontieruk
Member
Management, send a few emails to tell someone else to do a spreadsheet / presentation as I busy... Golfing
if you're on the road you make notes deal with emails and perhaps outline what you need to do when you get back to an office environment, something that used to be done with pen and paper and phones.
There has to be more to the story. I don't see them making a big deal out of an iPad Pro if it is just adding snapping and a beefier chipset. There has to be some sort of dock accessory to hook to monitors and keyboards quickly and easily and some sort of productivity suite plus enterprise security features. It would be insane otherwise.
Could be good for Continuum too, if this does well, in a weird way. Productivity software created for iOS could be ported easily to a universal app. And why wouldn't they given the Surface Pro's growth rates and the addition of OEMs selling them to enterprises.
A regular iPad suits that person's needs though. Why a Pro?
Could be good for Continuum too, if this does well, in a weird way. Productivity software created for iOS could be ported easily to a universal app. And why wouldn't they given the Surface Pro's growth rates and the addition of OEMs selling them to enterprises.
Management, send a few emails to tell someone else to do a spreadsheet / presentation as I busy... Golfing
if you're on the road you make notes deal with emails and perhaps outline what you need to do when you get back to an office environment, something that used to be done with pen and paper and phones.
A regular iPad suits that person's needs though. Why a Pro?
Management, send a few emails to tell someone else to do a spreadsheet / presentation as I busy... Golfing
if you're on the road you make notes deal with emails and perhaps outline what you need to do when you get back to an office environment, something that used to be done with pen and paper and phones.
I am in management (*clears throat*).
An iPad in its current form would be completely unsuited to what I do. When I'm in the office I need a minimum of two screens and I work on 5 to 10 office documents at the same time and have a couple of browsers with tens of tabs.
When I'm on the road I use my SP3 (which I could use in the office as well btw), which can cope with all of this. And I can connect it to any projector to do presentations etc.
An iOS or Android tablet can't do that and unless they are announcing a OSX/iOS hybrid OS tonight, an iPad pro won't be able to either.
Btw, I don't think that I have the most demanding job in the world by the way, so I struggle to see how anyone else could do his job with a device like that.
LukasTaves
Member
Hardware wise, nothing, but there's plenty of Benedita/opportunity on the software side.
- iOs is secure, you don't have to do anything to prevent the user from installing malware, something Ms failed to deliver with win RT.
- The developer community is already there, and dying to add new productivity features to their apps. Take for instance pen support. How many apps in the windows store actually uses the pen in any meaningful way, like even adding the basics like pressure support? (And that's something almost entirely handled by the system), and how many on ios where developers tried every way they could to offset the platform limitations? Like using palm rejection algorithms so you can use that horrible rubber ball pens, or even adding support to 3rd party pen solutions with turn around like using Bluetooth or side cameras for pressure and palm rejection? Now imagine what these developers would do with those limitations lifted? Win 10 has been out in over a month and the support is still abysmal, many of the top tier apps hasn't been updated to the new platform, the one exception that comes to mind is twitter. Like I said before, there's an huge chance that apple can deliver all the missing features on ios faster than Ms can make developers care for theirs, and I think Ms already knows this, since they are making Visual Studio available on all platforms, because they know that most developers are no long committed to developing to windows anymore. You can say that in some way Ms is even making easier for ios devices to cater to the enterprise, by providing office, development tools and the cloud infrastructure that apple completely lacks now. Which I guess is kinda their point now, they want people hooked in Ms services and tools, not necessarily their platforms anymore.
Is super successful if you compare it to Xbox One sales in Continental Europe.
So security is the main reason? Stylus would only be useful in productivity scenarios if they have a beefy enough chipset to run artist tools and there is no way it is running something like CAD. For note taking isn't the iPad already pretty good at that?
To be honest, I think they are going to announce it is running on an x86 chip and can run OSX software. That would make it useful.
I should move to Asia...