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Windows Phone 8.1 |OT| Update 1

H

hadareud

The Translator
Not a surprise. Who would buy a WP apart from a few hardcore fans at the moment.

The budget market isn't being looked after anymore either and they aren't pushing their existing phones at all.

There has to be some doubt that they'll release another generation of phones now.
 
K

Klocker

Member
Yeah, they are either getting ready to abandon it or they are regrouping and creating an entire new strategy with rebrand, push.
 
BeforeU

BeforeU

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
2.3 Million in 3 months worldwide. Hollyshit.

Thats insane low.

They might kill it guys.

Thats probably how much Apple sells iPhone hourly on launch day
 
L

LostMyNarbles

Member
BeforeU said:
2.3 Million in 3 months worldwide. Hollyshit.

Thats insane low.

They might kill it guys.

Thats probably how much Apple sells iPhone hourly on launch day
Click to expand...
I know nobody sells volume like Apple, but it is just so hard to imagine Apple selling more phones in 24 hours than Microsoft did over 3 months. :|
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I wish there was a better place to land for Windows phone users than a Samsung phone or the underwhelming screens and camera of an iPhone. If Google could ever get a handle on rogue apps, and then release solid phones like the 6p, that would be a good option.

It does really feel like we are reaching the end of the line here, and I'm glad that giga and maeh2k care enough to visit the thread periodically with bad news.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
Lumia will be phased out for sure.

Will Surface take its place or will MS abandon it altogether is the question.
 
C

clav

Member
VanMardigan said:
I wish there was a better place to land for Windows phone users than a Samsung phone or the underwhelming screens and camera of an iPhone. If Google could ever get a handle on rogue apps, and then release solid phones like the 6p, that would be a good option.

It does really feel like we are reaching the end of the line here, and I'm glad that giga and maeh2k care enough to visit the thread periodically with bad news.
Click to expand...

Gloating gets people high.
 
K

KageMaru

Member
maeh2k said:
"YIKES. Windows Phone revenue decreased $662 million or 47% because Microsoft sold only 2.3 million Lumia phones."
https://twitter.com/thurrott/status/723244826171465728

"Lumias sold this past quarter: 2.3 million units. A year ago? 8.6 million units."
https://twitter.com/thurrott/status/723245043151196160
Click to expand...

It's messed up how badly MS has handled WP over and over again. Sad too because it's the best mobile OS out there, outside of the stability issues.

I'm starting to wonder if there will be a WP platform for me to come back to next time I upgrade. :-/
 
BeforeU

BeforeU

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
To people who have doubts that they might shut down this platform all together. How would it really work? Because even with the lowest to lowest sales figure it makes no sense to scrap mobile for Microsoft.

The reason I say this is, the vision behind W10 is Windows everywhere. Their Universal platform work is already done. Its not like MS has not maintain two types of apps anymore. So even business and resources stand point it doesn't make sense. Just take Music, Video, Calculator, Calendar, Mail any app for an example. They are %100 identical on PC and Mobile. Store is also unified now.

To me, Windows Mobile will never die. Just my thought.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
BeforeU said:
To people who have doubts that they might shut down this platform all together. How would it really work? Because even with the lowest to lowest sales figure it makes no sense to scrap mobile for Microsoft.

The reason I say this is, the vision behind W10 is Windows everywhere. Their Universal platform work is already done. Its not like MS has not maintain two types of apps anymore. So even business and resources stand point it doesn't make sense. Just take Music, Video, Calculator, Calendar, Mail any app for an example. They are %100 identical on PC and Mobile. Store is also unified now.

To me, Windows Mobile will never die. Just my thought.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's not going to die anytime soon, even if the market share remains abysmal in the near future. Also, considering it took a few years for the Surface devices to take off, I can't imagine they don't release a few Panos-lead devices and keep developing mobile with a focus on continuum and continuum-style features.
 
A

Anton Sugar

Member
They're not completely abandoning the platform. It wouldn't make much sense at this point, given how unified the platform is or is going to be.

Seems like they're putting all eggs in the whole phoenix rising thing next year, hoping that UWP will take off in the interim to provide a strong relaunch.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
claviertekky said:
There's too much riding on UWP to abandon considering how IoT is still yet to take off.
Click to expand...

Indeed. IoT is a thing and Intel noticed early enough to do a hard push. They aren't going to let that market go like how they let mobile go.

It sucks that they removed W10 IoT for the Galileo Gen 2 though. I managed to grab one for $23 bucks at Microcenter D:
 
C

clav

Member
What's the ultimate end-game strategy though?

Like for Apple, seems clear they will kick Intel + AMD to the curb once iOS is suitable enough to replace all desktop features. They house all the chip fabs exclusive to their products, and all profits go to Apple. Sustainable consumerism. HP before its R&D parts were gutted by short-sighted management really wanted to do that according to some retired senior engineer I spoke recently.

What's for MS? x86 on ARM? We already saw Surface 1/2 dead from Windows 8.
 
Cute Dragon Here

Cute Dragon Here

Member
Well, I'm considering jumping ship to some Android phone with heavy Microsoft presence out-of-the-box...

Though the camera in my 930 is still too good at the moment, so...
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Anton Sugar said:
They're not completely abandoning the platform. It wouldn't make much sense at this point, given how unified the platform is or is going to be.

Seems like they're putting all eggs in the whole phoenix rising thing next year, hoping that UWP will take off in the interim to provide a strong relaunch.
Click to expand...

Who's developing for UWP right now and who's going to do that in the future?

Like, what's the incentive to do that?
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
brotkasten said:
Who's developing for UWP right now and who's going to do that in the future?

Like, what's the incentive to do that?
Click to expand...

What's the incentive to develop for a platform with several hundred million users?

I don't know that that's so difficult to answer.

Who is developing for it? Certainly more developers than were for W8.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
brotkasten said:
Who's developing for UWP right now and who's going to do that in the future?

Like, what's the incentive to do that?
Click to expand...

I'm sure all the people who are contributing to the thriving Win32 eco system *cough* are going to jump on board the "U"WP train in no time...
 
B

brotkasten

Member
hadareud said:
What's the incentive to develop for a platform with several hundred million users?

I don't know that that's so difficult to answer.

Who is developing for it? Certainly more developers than were for W8.
Click to expand...

That's the theory.

But because Windows Mobile isn't a thing, you can skip UWP and reach the same amount of users and more over a competent Web app, without committing extra resources to an additional development platform.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
I don't know, I think the early signs are that it's more than a theory, even if it was always going to be a fairly slow process.

I feel that the situation has improved. Maybe not necessarily in terms of app availability, but in terms of app quality and feature completeness.

Is W10 being seen as a viable platform for most small developers and will we see every restaurant and other shit app anytime soon? Not at all. Will we see that the major apps are getting better and will we see more of them? I think so, I think it will continually get better.

That doesn't mean that everything will be available for every single MS platform, of course. And some things won't come to phone for sure with sales like that.

btw, making a decent web app doesn't mean that that can't be in the store as a UWP without much added development cost.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
It's a completely different beta now, though.

It's the fully featured iOS app, just not running very well, versus a completely featureless app, also not running very well.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
hadareud said:
I don't know, I think the early signs are that it's more than a theory, even if it was always going to be a fairly slow process.

I feel that the situation has improved. Maybe not necessarily in terms of app availability, but in terms of app quality and feature completeness.

Is W10 being seen as a viable platform for most small developers and will we see every restaurant and other shit app anytime soon? Not at all. Will we see that the major apps are getting better and will we see more of them? I think so, I think it will continually get better.

That doesn't mean that everything will be available for every single MS platform, of course. And some things won't come to phone for sure with sales like that.

btw, making a decent web app doesn't mean that that can't be in the store as a UWP without much added development cost.
Click to expand...

But the situation you're describing is what feels like what Windows Phone has always been. Big names pop up here and there, come company might throw the platform a nugget, major apps come and go.

But the problem is and has always been, that you're not getting the little shit apps. Why's that a problem? Because one of those gazillion apps might blow up and become the new hot shit and Windows Phone is going to be left out yet again.

By the time Windows Phone came and went, Snapchat released their first version (September 2011) and they've become huge. Where's the Windows version?
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
Yes sure, but I didn't really mean technology (messaging etc.) apps, but apps by businesses etc. that were just as well served by a website (banking etc.).

I do think that the sort of apps you mention will be much more prevalent in W10 than they were in WP8 and I think it will be for the simple reason that you can reach so many more users on W10 while the user base of WP8 was fairly limited. There's a difference between being able to reach 35 or so million users worldwide (at best, but probably far fewer) versus half a billion or so users (in due time). I do think that W10 is a much more attractive proposition than WP8 and W8 were - two separate platforms with limited users versus one big platform with many users.

Like I said, I feel that the overall situation has improved already. Just a small example is that BT Sport have released an app for both phone and the desktop the other week, something that I don't think would have happened on W8/WP8. And like I said, I feel that the quality of the apps that have been there before has improved, overall. Not for every single app, but overall.

We can go back to the discussion of how no one uses apps on their desktop, but I don't think that's true anymore since the modern and traditional interfaces are not separated anymore like they were in W8. I think there's many more users than for Windows 8 and I think many more of them use apps or will use apps.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
hadareud said:
I do think that the sort of apps you mention will be much more prevalent in W10 than they were in WP8 and I think it will be for the simple reason that you can reach so many more users on W10 while the user base of WP8 was fairly limited. There's a difference between being able to reach 35 or so million users worldwide (at best, but probably far fewer) versus half a billion or so users (in due time). I do think that W10 is a much more attractive proposition than WP8 and W8 were - two separate platforms with limited users versus one big platform with many users.

Like I said, I feel that the overall situation has improved already. Just a small example is that BT Sport have released an app for both phone and the desktop the other week, something that I don't think would have happened on W8/WP8. And like I said, I feel that the quality of the apps that have been there before has improved, overall. Not for every single app, but overall.

We can go back to the discussion of how no one uses apps on their desktop, but I don't think that's true anymore since the modern and traditional interfaces are not separated anymore like they were in W8. I think there's many more users than for Windows 8 and I think many more of them use apps or will use apps.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any evidence that regular PC users are adopting the app store model. When virtually everything they've ever used on their PCs is still accessible over their browsers, then why open the app store in the first place?

Microsoft already boasted about "potentially 1 billion users" when Windows 8 came out. And then no one started using/writing apps.

The developer story certainly has improved with the unified store and app model, but when Windows Phone is dying, who cares?
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
There's certain apps that don't make sense in a web browser and that still make sense to be used on a desktop and then there is others that are just more comfortably used as an app (streaming etc.). Then there's games. Those too are being used on the desktop or would be if they were there.

As for their claims regarding the potential adoption of Windows 8: nobody gave a shit because the actual adoption was there for everyone to see. Just like the actual adoption of W10 is there for everyone to see. We're not talking about a pie in the sky few 100 million users 5 years down the road, we're talking about a few 100 million active users right now. And like I mentioned, the 2 interface approach of W8 was prohibitive of apps being explored by users in the first place.

I'm not expecting people to use dozens of apps on their desktops like they do on iOS, but I am expecting them to use a good number. Or rather I expect a good number of people to use a good number of apps.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
The thing is, new app successes start on mobile and not on tablets or the desktop. If a start-up creates a new, revolutionary app, you can bet that it's going to be on the iPhone first. If it takes off, you'll get an Android version a couple of weeks or months later, expanding to iPad after that (if it makes sense and hasn't already been done). From there on there's not going to be an expansion to the desktop, if mobile as a starting point is dead.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
Sure, for the most part.

What about productivity stuff (for instance) though? It would make just as much (if not more) sense for a new productivity app to take off on desktop/tablet as it does on an iPhone.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
hadareud said:
Sure, for the most part.

What about productivity stuff (for instance) though? It would make just as much (if not more) sense for a new productivity app to take off on desktop/tablet as it does on an iPhone.
Click to expand...

Have any productivity apps taken off on the desktop in the last decade?

All recent "hot new desktop apps" I can think of are Sketch and Framer and those are Mac-only.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
hadareud said:
Sure, for the most part.

What about productivity stuff (for instance) though? It would make just as much (if not more) sense for a new productivity app to take off on desktop/tablet as it does on an iPhone.
Click to expand...

Look at the app store purchases Microsoft made last year (hurr hurr).

Acompli (Mail)
6 Wunderkinder (To-Do list)
Sunrise Atelier (Calendar)

Productivity apps that started or took off on the phone. None of them had iPad apps at launch. Of those, only Wunderlist has been on the Windows Store before the acquisition.

Productivity in general is huge on the iPhone. Search for "productivity apps" and check the "Top XX list" any shitty blog puts out. I bet you that more of them have a web app than a dedicated Windows app (Win32, Store, UWP).

But lets look at games. It's the biggest category on the Windows Store by far.

rUQ2EQK.png


Then you look at Disney, one of the arguably biggest supporters of the Windows Store, and you see none of the latest Star Wars and Marvel games. I thought it would be cool to play some of their F2P Star Wars games on the PC, as a little time waster and I've heard that SW Galaxy of Heroes is actually pretty decent. It launched at the end of November 2015 and is nowhere to be seen on the Windows Store. I have no idea why, because Disney Crossy Road is new and on the Store. So that's not great.
And what a huge mess UWP has been for traditional Win32 games so far, is clear to everyone here (I hope).

e: Little fun fact: In the last Windows Store report in February 2016, Microsoft mentioned that the majority of the downloads from the Windows Store came from Windows 8.x. That was a month after they announced the 200 million Windows 10 users.

Windows 10 adoption trends

As announced in January, over 200 million PCs, tablets, and phones across the globe are now running Windows 10, making it the fastest growing version of Windows in history. Over 3 billion visits have been made to the Store since the Windows 10 launch. While Windows 8.x still accounts for the majority of Store downloads, Windows 10 users are the fastest growing download segment, growing both in volume and total percentage of downloads

This past holiday season we saw double the number of paid transactions for PC and tablet customers over the previous holiday season, and Windows 10 customer generate 4.5x more revenue per device when compared to Windows 8. For more information, please refer to the Windows 10 Store Growth opportunity post.
 
O

OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun

Banned
VanMardigan said:
I wish there was a better place to land for Windows phone users than a Samsung phone or the underwhelming screens and camera of an iPhone. If Google could ever get a handle on rogue apps, and then release solid phones like the 6p, that would be a good option.

It does really feel like we are reaching the end of the line here, and I'm glad that giga and maeh2k care enough to visit the thread periodically with bad news.
Click to expand...

Who are you guys comparing WIndows Phone sales to when you say things like "the end is near" which I have not heard for 5 years in a row.

Windows Phone is doing better than the majority of other handset makers. It's pretty mucht he only one with a kind of good position on a sales charts were the only ones significantly above the "we barely made money or lower" line is Samsung and Apple, with a declining Samsung. People seem to forget Samsung is declining.

Outside those two who are we comparing the sales and market to? HTC? Lg? Blackberry? Xolo? Huawei? Asus?

I mean WIndows is still the only alternate viable OS, and we have a good number of OEMS that will increase that % whether it moves up or stays flat in general.

Then for Manufacture, MS is in much better position than the other 95% of phone makers. Then MS had plans for full WIndows 10 integration and UMP>


I mean come back to me when your multi-million advertised WIndows Phone, releasing with price drops and tons of free stuff during and before the holidays inOct, Nov and Dec, sales 50,000 units world wide during those 3 months.

That's what Blackberry did and they are still somehow alive so yikes guys.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun said:
Windows Phone is doing better than the majority of other handset makers. It's pretty mucht he only one with a kind of good position on a sales charts were the only ones significantly above the "we barely made money or lower" line is Samsung and Apple, with a declining Samsung. People seem to forget Samsung is declining.

Outside those two who are we comparing the sales and market to? HTC? Lg? Blackberry? Xolo? Huawei? Asus?
Click to expand...

Any of those, really. 2.3 million is abysmal. If we consider the Nokia acquisition, Windows Phone probably lost more money than any of the other OEMs.

OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun said:
I mean WIndows is still the only alternate viable OS, and we have a good number of OEMS that will increase that % whether it moves up or stays flat in general.
Click to expand...

Windows is not a viable phone OS. None of the OEMs ever gave a shit.

OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun said:
Then for Manufacture, MS is in much better position than the other 95% of phone makers. Then MS had plans for full WIndows 10 integration and UMP>


I mean come back to me when your multi-million advertised WIndows Phone, releasing with price drops and tons of free stuff during and before the holidays inOct, Nov and Dec, sales 50,000 units world wide during those 3 months.

That's what Blackberry did and they are still somehow alive so yikes guys.
Click to expand...

If Blackberry is the new bar for success in the market, then sure, Windows Phone is doing just fine :)
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
brotkasten said:
Look at the app store purchases Microsoft made last year (hurr hurr).

Acompli (Mail)
6 Wunderkinder (To-Do list)
Sunrise Atelier (Calendar)

Productivity apps that started or took off on the phone. None of them had iPad apps at launch. Of those, only Wunderlist has been on the Windows Store before the acquisition.

Productivity in general is huge on the iPhone. Search for "productivity apps" and check the "Top XX list" any shitty blog puts out. I bet you that more of them have a web app than a dedicated Windows app (Win32, Store, UWP).
Click to expand...

Those are considered "productivity"?
 
O

OhNoDangerItsaPentagonRun

Banned
maeh2k said:
Any of those, really. 2.3 million is abysmal. If we consider the Nokia acquisition, Windows Phone probably lost more money than any of the other OEMs.



Windows is not a viable phone OS. None of the OEMs ever gave a shit.



If Blackberry is the new bar for success in the market, then sure, Windows Phone is doing just fine :)
Click to expand...

1. Except that's not how it works and not how their reports are conducted.

2. Except there are like a bunch of OEMS about to jump on WIndows 10.

3. I also mentioned more than BB but it seems you don't have ana rgument so are going for omission.
 
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