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[kharma45]

Tada!

I really don't mind the absence of the dead space on the right--it looks just as good as the original.

They're trying to expand their audience. If more options equals more marketshare...there's nothing for us to complain about.

Doesn't look too bad, although I'm still not sure whether or not I'd rather have had this instead

 

[clav]

Nokia PR damage control.

What else could they say?

"No guys. Don't buy our obsolete phones. Wait for WP8."

 

[Frost_Ace]

I'm gonna miss the right arrow so much

 

[kharma45]

I'm gonna miss the right arrow so much

Especially the little animation when you swipe left and right, amuses me.

 

[Black-Box]

Elop on buying a Lumia 900 - "I definitely think it’s more than enough. I think that ultimately your typical customer probably isn’t all that aware of this upgrade thing"

Elop in January - "We don't want fragmentation being introduced into Windows Phone because we are beginning to see how in a certain other eco-system that fragmentation becomes a problem."

fragmentation will happen if they want to carter to both markets, high end and low end, I am pretty sure he is talking about the mess that is the android.

but for what lumia offers, I think it still is an amazing freaking phone. the fact that it has helped WP7 sales against android and iphone. I think proves that it doesn't have to be at the same level to be good

 

[kharma45]

WP8: unannounced features include Data Smart, cloud-based IE10, and SkyDrive integration

I must say Data Smart looks very well.

 

[dLMN8R]

Microsoft should really work on improving the situation with their hardware partners.

Windows Phone 7:
[/IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tCeOF.jpg[/IMG]

Windows Phone 7.5:
[/IMG]http://i.imgur.com/S2eVv.jpg[/IMG]

Windows Phone 8:
[/IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NlMpH.jpg[/IMG]

Considering the fact that the vast majority of WP devices were utter shit, I'm not dwelling much over the lack of variety here.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Since they removed the arrow and tiles are now slightly bigger you almost need to have some small tiles just to balance things out.

 

[brotkasten]

Considering the fact that the vast majority of WP devices were utter shit, I'm not dwelling much over the lack of variety here.

LG won't be missed, but looking at Sony's recent Android phones, your statement does sound stupid. The Fujitsu phone also looked great, with physical buttons and a 13.2MP camera. Huawei is just a replacement for ZTE. So it basically just got worse.

 

[Klocker]

Very busy last few days can someone summarize for me please?
Will my Samsung focus
S get a WP8 upgrade or am.i getting a new device?
Thx

 

[kharma45]

LG won't be missed, but looking at Sony's recent Android phones, your statement does sound stupid. The Fujitsu phone also looked great, with physical buttons and a 13.2MP camera. Huawei is just a replacement for ZTE. So it basically just got worse.

I'd argue Huawei are better than ZTE, the Huawei Ascend G300 is better than anything I've seen ZTE put out.

You're right about LG though, they obviously didn't have much enthusiasm for the platform with them only releasing the Optimus 7 (and then tarting it up again as that Jil Sander model).

As long as HTC (and arguably Samsung) stay on-board on top of Nokia it should all be fine.

Very busy last few days can someone summarize for me please?
Will my Samsung focus
S get a WP8 upgrade or am.i getting a new device?
Thx

New device, you're only getting 7.8.

 

[Fjolle]

New device, you're only getting 7.8.

And noone knows what 7.8 is. Other that it will look like WP8.

If Nokia (or Samsung) does an Apple and releases new phones with the same design you won't be able to tell the difference (Untill someone tries to use Skype....)

 

[kharma45]

Nokia said they would be retaining the current Lumia looks.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I want my next phone to be 4.0" or 3.7". 4.3" is just a bit too big. I would never get a 4.7" phone that's for sure.

 

[kharma45]

4.3" is about the sweet spot for me, that's the main thing I miss from my HD7.

Even when I was messing around with a friends One X it didn't seem overwhelmingly big.

 

[maeh2k]

Doesn't look too bad, although I'm still not sure whether or not I'd rather have had this instead

Aesthetically I prefer the negative space on the right and the somewhat smaller tiles. One possibility is that they just gave in to the group of people who didn't like the 'unused pixels'. Another possibility is that the small tiles would have provided too-small touch targets (e.g. on a 3.5" screen). However what I hope could be the case is that maybe there might be something left of the start screen much like there is the app list on the right. In that case the negative space on the right would make less sense suggesting only that there's more content on the right while ignoring the left. I doubt that's the case, but maybe...

 

[Steelyuhas]

Doesn't look too bad, although I'm still not sure whether or not I'd rather have had this instead

Yeah I think I would rather have this. The "medium" tiles are so big without the space on the right.

Data Smart is going to be a nice feature.

 

[venne]

Live tiles better take a big step with the additional pixels available.

The live map navigation tile looked like a good start.

 

[PG2G]

http://www.bgr.com/2012/06/21/microsoft-branded-smartphone-rumor/

But Microsoft apparently thinks it’s older and wiser now, and it wants to try making its own phones again, according to Nomura analyst Rick Sherlund. Per Business Insider, Sherlund sent out a note today stating that Steve Ballmer and his merry band “may be working with a contract manufacturer to develop their own handset for Windows Phone 8.” What’s more, Sherman said that “it is unclear to us whether this would be a reference platform or whether this may be a go-to market Microsoft branded handset.”

 

[D4Danger]

just buy Nokia and put them out of their misery.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Live tiles better take a big step with the additional pixels available.

The live map navigation tile looked like a good start.

There is a video on wmpoweruser showing the new Xbox music tile and it is actually animated. Looks sweet.

 

[Raistlin]

Doesn't look too bad, although I'm still not sure whether or not I'd rather have had this instead

Where can we spam MS to ask for a mode that keeps the gutter?

Aesthetically I prefer the negative space on the right and the somewhat smaller tiles. One possibility is that they just gave in to the group of people who didn't like the 'unused pixels'. Another possibility is that the small tiles would have provided too-small touch targets (e.g. on a 3.5" screen). However what I hope could be the case is that maybe there might be something left of the start screen much like there is the app list on the right. In that case the negative space on the right would make less sense suggesting only that there's more content on the right while ignoring the left. I doubt that's the case, but maybe...

That's a good point actually.

Several of the user-facing changes in WP8 have not been discussed at this point, and if you listen to the most recent WPCentral podcast they mention there are major notification changes coming but they can't discuss them until MS does. Logically one of those changes will be some sort of notification history, and a swipe to the left seems like a great place to put it.

If that's the case, the removal of the gutter makes a ton more sense ... even if I prefer it for aesthetic reasons.

just buy Nokia and put them out of their misery.

If they're simply doing a reference phone ... that's seems unnecessary.

If they are actually serious about making phones that could make sense, but it would imply they're basically going it alone and telling OEM's to not bother. Nokia is a huge company and makes tons of phones. If MS were releasing numerous lines ... where would that leave partners? Not to mention, Nokia makes tons of non-smart phones. Why would MS want a part of that?

 

[kharma45]

That's actually a really good point, if we're going to swipe left for notifications it'd make sense to get rid of the gutter.

 

[hwalker84]

Doesn't look too bad, although I'm still not sure whether or not I'd rather have had this instead

Maybe why we don't have the dead space on the right anymore is because there's now something to the left? It would confuse people.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Ever been to Canada?

daaaaaaaaaamn!

 

[MCD]

Just give this WP buttons and call it a day.

 

[Troll]

Maybe why we don't have the dead space on the right anymore is because there's now something to the left? It would confuse people.

I'm not so sure it will be confusing, the first thing people do with phones nowadays is swipe left and right. I don't see it being a big problem.

 

[Damon Bennet]

im in the "keep the gutter" camp. usually i am not the kind of person who damns progress and new aspects of something, but i really dislike the blown up look. too bad the press is surprisingly positive about this

 

[Raistlin]

I'm not so sure it will be confusing, the first thing people do with phones nowadays is swipe left and right. I don't see it being a big problem.

While true, it about coherent UI design.

Having a UI where you can scroll in either direction and then including hints that imply there's only content in one direct is a UX no-no.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Someone will make an app which is just a black tile with a white arrow.

 

[Raistlin]

Someone will make an app which is just a black tile with a white arrow.

That would do nothing to solve the 'issue' (if you want to call it that).

 

[Korey]

Maybe why we don't have the dead space on the right anymore is because there's now something to the left? It would confuse people.

What's on the left?

 

[JaggedSac]

What's on the left?

For 7.8 folks, A picture of Ballmer flicking you off.

 

[Cipherr]

Ahh hell yeah. New design looks much better. Still not a fan of tiles, but that dead space is seemingly gone from the right side. And more options for tile sizes.

Win win win baby.


Sup Raist

Cmon man, this looks good. I know, opinions and all but IMO these small changes to the UI are a good thing.

 

[Raistlin]

What's on the left?

Something, nothing? We don't know - it's all speculation.

We know there are major updates coming to notifications, so it's quite possible notification history could be there. Seems like the most logical place to put it.

For 7.8 folks, A picture of Ballmer flicking you off.

Good point. That also brings up another. With 7.8 receiving the capability for users to change tile sizes, will developers also get the capability to use 3 tiers of live tile information like in WP8?

I think it's very possible that when people state 'WP7.8 is only getting the home screen', it may actually mean more functionality than we're assuming. It's very possible the tiers of live tile information and a notification history are actually considered all part of the new 'home screen' in the eyes of MS.

From a coding standpoint, storing a limited list of notifications is trivial compared to what's involved in adding user functionality for resizing live tiles.

Sup Raist

Cmon man, this looks good. I know, opinions and all but IMO these small changes to the UI are a good thing.

?

I just said I don't like it aesthetically (more so the loss of the gutter than anything). I also stated I prefer customization and think the inclusion of small tiles will be better in actual day-to-day usage.

 

[VanMardigan]

Since when did we start calling that awesome empty space on the right side the "gutter"?

 

[kehs]

Since when did we start calling that awesome empty space on the right side the "gutter"?

Industry term for the spaces between columns in layouts.

 

[JaggedSac]

Good point. That also brings up another. With 7.8 receiving the capability for users to change tile sizes, will developers also get the capability to use 3 tiers of live tile information like in WP8?

I think it's very possible that when people state 'WP7.8 is only getting the home screen', it may actually mean more functionality than we're assuming. It's very possible the tiers of live tile information and a notification history are actually considered all part of the new 'home screen' in the eyes of MS.

From a coding standpoint, storing a limited list of notifications is trivial compared to what's involved in adding user functionality for resizing live tiles.

Yeah, ive thought about that as well. MS's apps like email and such will probably take advantage of the large tiles and small tiles, but if 3rd party devs have to add code, we can pretty much forget about it, they will just be taking up more or less space. If they can't even recompile and resubmit for Mango, they definitely aren't going to make code changes.

 

[Raistlin]

Industry term for the spaces between columns in layouts.

Though technically this is a margin (or padding depending on how you want to look at it) since it's outside of the layout grid.

IIRC, Thurrott might have been the first person I heard refer to it, though I don't know if he coined it.

Yeah, ive thought about that as well. MS's apps like email and such will probably take advantage of the large tiles and small tiles, but if 3rd party devs have to add code, we can pretty much forget about it, they will just be taking up more or less space. If they can't even recompile and resubmit for Mango, they definitely aren't going to make code changes.

True. I was thinking more for new apps.

For apps that aren't using native coding or specifically utilizing new HW features, I expect we'll see dual releases for a while. Targeting both platforms on the onset is not all that difficult.

 

[kehs]

Though technically this is a margin (or padding depending on how you want to look at it) since it's outside of the layout grid.

IIRC, Thurrott might have been the first person I heard refer to it, though I don't know if he coined it.

The two columns are are the main apps, and the app list. Just like there's a gutter between sections of hubs.

 

[Troll]

Are they saying anything about a universal search yet

 

[Unicorn]

Zune alone makes me want this, but man, I love the Android homescreen and customization.

 

[PG2G]

So, I was just reading on wmpoweruser how you can use voice commands to command apps when they aren't even open. I know people wanted a Siri competitor, and it seems like this would allow you to go far beyond what siri does. If implemented, you could do things like the following:

"Calendar, schedule meeting blah blah"
"ESPN, what is the score for blah blah"
"Wallet, what is my account balance"
"Foursquare, check me in"

The ability for apps to talk to you from background tasks is awesome too, like the Inrix demo.

Sure, its not natural language, but the possibilities are endless and Siri is still "learning" what Apple is slowly teaching it.

 

[Troll]

Zune alone makes me want this, but man, I love the Android homescreen and customization.

Well, Zune is dead (at least in name) and the new WP home screen is probably the worst received part of WP8.


So, yeah you should buy one.

So, I was just reading on wmpoweruser how you can use voice commands to command apps when they aren't even open. I know people wanted a Siri competitor, and it seems like this would allow you to go far beyond what siri does. If implemented, you could do things like the following:

"Calendar, schedule meeting blah blah"
"ESPN, what is the score for blah blah"
"Wallet, what is my account balance"
"Foursquare, check me in"

Sure, its not natural language, but the possibilities are endless and Siri is still "learning" what Apple is slowly teaching it.

Could they technically make an app that does all that for you? Like a Tellme hub of sorts?

 

[bedlamite]

Well, Zune is dead (at least in name) and the new WP home screen is probably the worst received part of WP8.

MS is killing the branding, but the service itself isn't going anywhere.

 

[Troll]

MS is killing the branding, but the service itself isn't going anywhere.

We don't exactly know what it's going to be after the changes. There will be a streaming music service, yes, but we don't know much else.

 

[hwalker84]

While true, it about coherent UI design.

Having a UI where you can scroll in either direction and then including hints that imply there's only content in one direct is a UX no-no.

Exactly. If there's one sort of notifications or something else on the left side it would make no sense imply content is only on the right side.

 

[PG2G]

Could they technically make an app that does all that for you? Like a Tellme hub of sorts?

You mean so you wouldn't have to say the app name? It'd probably be difficult because it'd need to have a deep understanding of the capabilities of each app and then route the command to the proper place.

 

[Raistlin]

The two columns are are the main apps, and the app list. Just like there's a gutter between sections of hubs.

Yeah I suppose from that point of view it's true.

Unlike hubs though (and correctly designed Metro apps), the home screen / app screen pair isn't using a traditional Metro Panorama. They are arguably two discrete objects (not directly related entities) ... so I wasn't considering it a whole. I was talking about on the home screen itself.

Though since the intent of gutter is at least in part to indicate content to the right, I probably should consider it a whole.


Tomato tomato I suppose

 

[thirty]

so who else wants to develop an app? i downloaded visual studio express from the microsoft site. don't really where to begin after getting my developer license. guess i'll view some vids and look up XAML and C++. anyone with any suggestions for a newbie?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516