Support NeoGAF

[Cipherr]

It's settled then. Fucking speculation, how does it work?



And what about the problems they WOULD have had on Android? Do we ignore those? Oh yeah, we're gonna pretend there are no hindrances to astronomical Android sales cause we like that platform a lot.



No, it is not.

Calm down, people are just looking at the situation and calling it for what it is. Sure its speculation, but mince all you want, even the worst off major Android manufacturer is doing better than Nokia.

Even Moto. HTC is doing less than they have, but they are still profitable, as are LG and clearly Samsung. This idea that Nokia is this "small fish" is funny to me, because just 18 or so months ago they were huge among phone makers. They are nigh insignificant now but that was not exactly the case a couple of years ago.

The entire company is in a shit position right now, so yeah, grass is greener everywhere else. They are on some damn near worst case scenario shit right now. Trying to stand the ground that "its all fine" is really odd considering the shape they are in. You shouldnt be taking it so damn personal when someone suggests that its possible they didnt make good decisions.

 

[Troll]

How about actually telling us what it is than instead of pointing out everyone's faults without correcting them.

It's because he has probably blacked it out in a fit of denial. They really are that horrible looking.


Pocketnow

At least with the current Lumia devices, we didn’t see much of a redesign at all, however we have recently come across some work by one of Nokia R&D’s senior graphic designers (who has also worked on the Nokia 808 PureView) that clearly shows at least some one at Nokia was considering a complete redesign of Windows Phone.

 

[VanMardigan]

Sure its speculation, but mince all you want, even the worst off major Android manufacturer is doing better than Nokia.

Is this true? Is it? Even the worst off ones?

So its all rosy over there in Android manufacturer land, huh?

It's because he has probably blacked it out in a fit of denial. They really are that horrible looking.

It's because it's not true. The person USED to work at Nokia, and those concepts, according to Nokia itself:

are purely her (the former employee) own personal design explorations and were never part of any project being done at or for Nokia

link

 

[Troll]

It's because it's not true. The person USED to work at Nokia, and those concepts, according to Nokia itself:

link

Exactly like I said, not officially from Nokia but from an Employee.

 

[kehs]

Van is so salty.

Nokia has near vertical integration from software to services. Even without the android market they could have pulled an Amazon and dominated much better than Samsung.

 

[VanMardigan]

This is from Nokia.

Not officially, but it is from a Nokia employee.

These are both false statements. The word "former" is not insignificant. In fact, it's a big fucking deal.

Ugh, I need to go play Wordament or something. Anyone want to join me?

Even without the android market they could have pulled an Amazon and dominated

You're making it too easy, coperdickus.

 

[Cipherr]

Is this true? Is it? Even the worst off ones?

You need to read your own links. So why dont we have a look shall we?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-70-after-dropping-the-ball-on-phones-1-.html

Thats your link, did you look up the Q4 HTC quarterly report? Their profits dropped, just like I said, but they were still profitable. Nokia isn't.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsav...son-reports-large-loss-as-sales-fall-sharply/

Your link, Sony Ericcson, .

"The company posted a loss of $207 million; before taxes and restructuring charges, the company lost $154 million; including restructuring charges, the loss was $247 million."

In contrast to Nokias:

However, the company still posted a €1.07 billion ($1.4 billion) loss as sales declined by 21% year on year with smartphone sales and mobile sales down 31% and 1% respectively.

In the very same quarter. So yeah I think that means SEriccson is even doing better than Nokia.

Your LG link is dated back from 12 months ago, when your other two links are from Q4 2011 results.... Why would you shuffle back an extra six months instead of posting LG's 4th quarter results?

LG Q4 2011 Results Finally Show Phone Division Profit
LG has published the official numbers referring to the last quarter of 2011 and, after a period of seven consecutive quarters, the company is finally seeing profit being generated out of the phone division.

While there are no official numbers related to units shipped (probably part of a follow-up earnings call), the South Korean manufacturer had a 12 billion won ($10.7 million) profit generated by the mobile division for Q4 2011.

LG is mainly focusing on smartphones that are running Google’s Android mobile platform (for what it’s worth they do have a couple of Windows Phones though). The latest addition to the line-up, the LG Optimus LTE (aka Nitro HD for AT&T) is a solid performer and so is the LG Spectrum for Verizon.

I suppose that would be why?

And for completions sake, Q4 Motorola posted a 285 million dollar loss, so unless you can sincerely find error in my statement of

even the worst off major Android manufacturer is doing better than Nokia.

Even Moto. HTC is doing less than they have, but they are still profitable, as are LG and clearly Samsung.

then please kindly hop off my back bruh. And save your strawmen, I never said it was all roses in Android town, I said that of all the relevant manufacturers, NONE of them are doing as bad as Nokia. And last I checked, that was 100% accurate if you have information that shows otherwise though I would be interested, I try to follow these things. Thanks for the links though.

 

[VanMardigan]

So Nokia's billion dollar loss is related entirely to WP7?

I'm not going to repeat myself, oh heck I will:

I'm not saying it's inconceivable that Nokia would break out on Android and join Samsung as a heavy hitter and big seller, I'm just saying its far from the slam dunk android fanboys think.

Meanwhile, your position was:

The entire company is in a shit position right now, so yeah, grass is greener everywhere else.

Which isn't born out by the facts I posted concerning hundred million dollar losses at Android manufacturers, which show that:

I'm not saying it's inconceivable that Nokia would break out on Android and join Samsung as a heavy hitter and big seller, I'm just saying its far from the slam dunk android fanboys think.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Can all this Android bullshit go in the Android OT. Thanks.

 

[Cipherr]

Meanwhile, you're position was:


Which isn't born out by the facts I posted concerning hundred million dollar losses at Android manufacturers, which show that:

The fuck are you even talk about? My position that the grass looks greener everywhere else is born out of the fact that every other major Android manufacturer is in better financial shape than Nokia is right now.

And furthermore, not ever loss the other companies take are strictly from Android either. You need to seriously sit down. The truth of the matter is I was 100% right, every major Android manufacturer is in better shape than Nokia, the grass is greener thing was just a metaphorical representation of them being in worse shape than the Android HW manufacturers, and its fucking ACCURATE.

If you want to essentially agree with me that its possible but not guaranteed that they could have done better elsewhere, then do so, but dont go trying to put words in my mouth because you dropped links to financial statements without fucking reading them.

 

[VanMardigan]

If you want to essentially agree with me that its possible but not guaranteed that they could have done better elsewhere, then do so, but dont go trying to put words in my mouth because you dropped links to financial statements without fucking reading them.

I'm genuinely sorry if I missed this part of your argument. Go ahead and quote the post where you said that. I missed it, and that's the only reason I even responded to your post.

 

[Cipherr]

I'm genuinely sorry if I missed this part of your argument. Go ahead and quote the post where you said that. I missed it, and that's the only reason I even responded to your post.

It's settled then. Fucking speculation, how does it work?

Calm down, people are just looking at the situation and calling it for what it is. Sure its speculation

.

 

[VanMardigan]

Lol, those are not the same things, and you know that. But it doesn't matter, because if your position is:

its possible but not guaranteed that they could have done better elsewhere

Then we agree.

 

[Troll]

These are both false statements. The word "former" is not insignificant. In fact, it's a big fucking deal.

Ugh, I need to go play Wordament or something. Anyone want to join me?

I can play later, GT Rock5T3ady.


Anyways, my point is that this was a person from Nokia's own design team, working on a skin (by herself but none the less it shows her "talent") then moved to Accenture. It is from a person who Nokia thought highly enough of to hire for UI design. We can speculate all we want about if they moved her or if she needed to move herself for personal reasons, but again, she was working for Nokia. She designed that. Gross.

What's a real big deal is that someone who makes shit like that was a professional UI designer for Nokia.

 

[VanMardigan]

vanmardigan, I'll be on in 15 minutes or so.

 

[kehs]

These are both false statements. The word "former" is not insignificant. In fact, it's a big fucking deal.

Ugh, I need to go play Wordament or something. Anyone want to join me?



You're making it too easy, coperdickus.

Amazon fell off because they had a shitty tablet. Nokia makes quality devices.

 

[Commodore]

vanmardigan, I'll be on in 15 minutes or so.

Wordament? I'm in for a bit. (I'm TheReadJander)

Quick thought, Cipherrrrr, don't you think comparing Nokia's market position (previously number one phone manufacturer, far more revenue, to HTC, Samsung, Sony etc, is a bit silly? Nokia had far far more room to fall, they weren't prepared for the current market, they were making far more phones/money, of course they are going to loose far more than other vendors. Compare them to Nokia when/if they manage to right their nose dive from where they were (#1) to where ever they manage to get to profit/manufacturing-wise. These next two years are a make or break time for Nokia, and will definitely determine whether Nokia's gamble made sense or not.

 

[Troll]

vanmardigan, I'll be on in 15 minutes or so.

How do I find you guys on the list? Do I have to look at frenemies every single time?

 

[VanMardigan]

How do I find you guys on the list? Do I have to look at frenemies every single time?

You have to add us to your frenemies list. Then, if we're on playing at the same time, you'll see us at the top of your results.

 

[tino]

Nokia could have done better but not much better. Nowadays smarphone fights are waged at the highest level, you have to win the war with ECOSYSTEM.

The fact of matter is any company who is not originally an IT company reside in silicon valley will not come out of the mobile war in one piece. Nokia with all due respect, was an company who made tires. They don't get software, let along ecosystem. They should have moved the company to infrastructure or sell it in pieces when they were still on top with the N95. Thats IMO the only right move in hide sight.

 

[Cute Dragon Here]

So I also lost 20% of battery while just letting the phone to idle for around eight to nine hours. Hmm... These push notifications must eat up battery.

 

[Cipherr]

Wordament? I'm in for a bit. (I'm TheReadJander)

Quick thought, Cipherrrrr, don't you think comparing Nokia's market position (previously number one phone manufacturer, far more revenue, to HTC, Samsung, Sony etc, is a bit silly? Nokia had far far more room to fall, they weren't prepared for the current market, they were making far more phones/money, of course they are going to loose far more than other vendors. Compare them to Nokia when/if they manage to right their nose dive from where they were (#1) to where ever they manage to get to profit/manufacturing-wise. These next two years are a make or break time for Nokia, and will definitely determine whether Nokia's gamble made sense or not.

People compared Nokia to other manufacturers when Nokia was number 1.... That's how they were... number 1 at the time. Its just as valid to do a comparison when they are down on their luck as it was when they are on the top of their game. They are clearly going through a hardship, the destination of which is sort of unknown, but that doesn't mean the world stops turning while they pull it together.

I dont see why I should be expected to not hold them besides similar peers in terms of performance profits and whatnot until things get better, assuming they do. The world waits for no-one like that. My statement that Nokia is doing terrible right now is only meant as a statement that they are doing terrible right now. Certainly doesn't mean things cannot change.

In short, basically, after 2 years, some pretty bad losses and more, I dont think its reasonable to say that they shouldn't/can't be questioned or criticized simply because things COULD turn around in two years.

Nokia could have done better but not much better. Nowadays smarphone fights are waged at the highest level, you have to win the war with ECOSYSTEM.

The fact of matter is any company who is not originally an IT company reside in silicon valley will not come out of the mobile war in one piece. Nokia with all due respect, was an company who made tires. They don't get software, let along ecosystem. They should have moved the company to infrastructure or sell it in pieces when they were still on top with the N95. Thats IMO the only right move in hide sight.

I think if the 900 had launched exactly 1 year earlier it would have been a whole new ballgame. Because of numerous things that obviously wasnt possible. But the timing was ripe at about that time.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Wordamnent is so good. Just had my best game. 899 points for 29th place. Wish I could have cracked the top 10.

Speaking of games, has anyone tried Mush?

 

[Troll]

Wordamnent is so good. Just had my best game. 899 points for 29th place. Wish I could have cracked the top 10.

Speaking of games, has anyone tried Mush?

You're way better than I am

 

[VanMardigan]

Schuey kicked my butt. Damn, I need to practice. Also, I couldn't add troll for whatever reason. He showed up, but clicking the check mark did nothing. Devs need to squash some bugs still. Its also battery poison still, lol.

 

[Troll]

Schuey kicked my butt. Damn, I need to practice. Also, I couldn't add troll for whatever reason. He showed up, but clicking the check mark did nothing. Devs need to squash some bugs still. Its also battery poison still, lol.

Same thing was happening with you, so I just quit.

 

[Commodore]

People compared Nokia to other manufacturers when Nokia was number 1.... That's how they were... number 1 at the time. Its just as valid to do a comparison when they are down on their luck as it was when they are on the top of their game. They are clearly going through a hardship, the destination of which is sort of unknown, but that doesn't mean the world stops turning while they pull it together.

I dont see why I should be expected to not hold them besides similar peers in terms of performance profits and whatnot until things get better, assuming they do. The world waits for no-one like that. My statement that Nokia is doing terrible right now is only meant as a statement that they are doing terrible right now. Certainly doesn't mean things cannot change.

Well you certainly can compare them, but comparing them on profit margin given Nokia's fall from the top, and companies who weren't even close to that amount of manufacturing/profit as valid? Its like comparing a major league baseball team to a little league team's season stats. Sure you can compare them, but its kinda silly until they operate under the same conditions.

 

[Commodore]

Schuey kicked my butt. Damn, I need to practice. Also, I couldn't add troll for whatever reason. He showed up, but clicking the check mark did nothing. Devs need to squash some bugs still. Its also battery poison still, lol.

Best I could muster was a 350 scoring game. Van pwned me every game, usually finding 10 more words than I could find. I've come the conclusion that no matter how many times I play, I can't seem to break the 500 point barrier. I'm still in awe of players that get over a grand.

 

[Troll]

Best I could muster was a 350 scoring game. Van pwned me every game, usually finding 10 more words than I could find. I've come the conclusion that no matter how many times I play, I can't seem to break the 500 point barrier. I'm still in awe of players that get over a grand.

Is there a way to cheat that game?

 

[VanMardigan]

The windows phone blog posted a video of a top player, it helped me a lot. Basically, keep your hands moving at all times, and close to the screen. There is a flow and you'll be able to swipe words more quickly, basically as you recognize them. If I'm finding a word every 2 seconds or less, I'll be in the top 20% of the leader board each time.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

The windows phone blog posted a video of a top player, it helped me a lot. Basically, keep your hands moving at all times, and close to the screen. There is a flow and you'll be able to swipe words more quickly, basically as you recognize them. If I'm finding a word every 2 seconds or less, I'll be in the top 20% of the leader board each time.

Yeah and some boards are definitely easier than others.

 

[Commodore]

Yeah and some boards are definitely easier than others.

What's your tag?

 

[SCHUEY F1]

What's your tag?

Same as Gaf, SCHUEY F1

 

[Fjolle]

Holy shit. Some misinformation in this thread tonight...

Nokia knew exactly what they went into.
Do you guys really think that MS sent an email to them a month ago saying "Oh, btw. You won't be able to update your phones to wp8. cya"?

They knew the WP roadmap when announced their partnership.

This might be why they haven't designed new phones, but just put the WP7 SoC into their Symbian/Maemo designs.

Also $1B of their quarterly losses are from their networking business, and has nothing to do with how their phones sell.

 

[Milchjon]

Wordamnent is so good. Just had my best game. 899 points for 29th place. Wish I could have cracked the top 10.

Speaking of games, has anyone tried Mush?

The trial of Mush is very short, so it's hard to judge its full potential, but I like what I saw. Cute design. Might buy it later.

The windows phone blog posted a video of a top player, it helped me a lot. Basically, keep your hands moving at all times, and close to the screen. There is a flow and you'll be able to swipe words more quickly, basically as you recognize them. If I'm finding a word every 2 seconds or less, I'll be in the top 20% of the leader board each time.

Hmmmm? I rarely make it under 3 seconds/word, yet I'm almost always in the top 20%. Granted, I do most of my playing at times when there's probably a lot more non-English speakers on.

I was lucky enough to play in the few hours where everyone transitioned from the old version to Xbox Live. With so few players, I managed to get most of the achievements and even won it all once.

 

[brotkasten]

Hmmmm? I rarely make it under 3 seconds/word, yet I'm almost always in the top 20%. Granted, I do most of my playing at times when there's probably a lot more non-English speakers on.

I was lucky enough to play in the few hours where everyone transitioned from the old version to Xbox Live. With so few players, I managed to get most of the achievements and even won it all once.

He means this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DV1yWwEEKk

 

[tomedo]

Looks like Zombies, Run! is now available on the marketplace. Its pricey but I already bought it and I will test it soon. Will post impressions if there is interest. I just hope they will keep it updated with new "missions" like they do for ios/android.

 

[NeOak]

1. The N9 is more desirable than a Lumia. Check the sales of the N9 which was released in "minor" markets vs the Lumias that were released in the "major" markets.
2. Elop is who fucked Nokia by Osborning Symbian and Meego when there was nothing to replace them. had he kept them going and released the Lumia without that damn memo it would have been perfect.
3. Windows Phone 8 is hated by carriers because of Skype. Elop said that Skype is a problem with the carriers.

Check what Tomi Ahonen, ex-Nokia exec and the only analyst that correctly predicted the current Nokia situation has to say. It isn't pretty.

And before you claim I'm a troll, I choose WP7 over android because i couldnt stand the awful fragmentation and shitty UI performance of Android.

BTW, Nokia hasn't used any of the Qualcomm SoCs for Symbian phones. They are Broadcom's with ARM11 CPUs. Even the Series 40 Asha line uses them without the GPU.

What Nokia did release was a Symbian^3 phone in China using the Lumia 800 chassis, but with a frontal camera and the 701 CPU/GPU. Its the model 801T. And they did because China Telecom showed the middle finger to the Lumia line and requested a Symbian phone.

 

[Commodore]

Looks like Zombies, Run! is now available on the marketplace. Its pricey but I already bought it and I will test it soon. Will post impressions if there is interest. I just hope they will keep it updated with new "missions" like they do for ios/android.

Cool concept. I'm interested in hearing if it's well done in practice.

 

[derFeef]

3. Windows Phone 8 is hated by carriers because of Skype.

I will never get this. iOS and especially Android are far worse offenders when it comes to this things.

 

[NeOak]

I will never get this. iOS and especially Android are far worse offenders when it comes to this things.

Why was Facetime forced to be Wi-Fi only when it worked just fine over 3G on jailbroken phones?

Thing is, MS owns Skype, so WP suffers for it. Skype allows you to bypass minutes, long distance fees and SMS. SMS is a cash cow and the carriers will fight to keep it.

 

[brotkasten]

I will never get this. iOS and especially Android are far worse offenders when it comes to this things.

Not only that, but we've heard pretty much the opposite from carriers, especially Verizon, who seems to have the weirdest boner for Windows Phone 8.

 

[NeOak]

Not only that, but we've heard pretty much the opposite from carriers, especially Verizon, who seems to have the weirdest boner for Windows Phone 8.

The same one that has a bad record with Microsoft phones.

One WP7 1st gen phone and... Kin.

We'll see tbh.

 

[Fjolle]

1. The N9 is more desirable than a Lumia. Check the sales of the N9 which was released in "minor" markets vs the Lumias that were released in the "major" markets.
2. Elop is who fucked Nokia by Osborning Symbian and Meego when there was nothing to replace them. had he kept them going and released the Lumia without that damn memo it would have been perfect.
3. Windows Phone 8 is hated by carriers because of Skype. Elop said that Skype is a problem with the carriers.

Check what Tomi Ahonen, ex-Nokia exec and the only analyst that correctly predicted the current Nokia situation has to say. It isn't pretty.

And before you claim I'm a troll, I choose WP7 over android because i couldnt stand the awful fragmentation and shitty UI performance of Android.

BTW, Nokia hasn't used any of the Qualcomm SoCs for Symbian phones. They are Broadcom's with ARM11 CPUs. Even the Series 40 Asha line uses them without the GPU.

What Nokia did release was a Symbian^3 phone in China using the Lumia 800 chassis, but with a frontal camera and the 701 CPU/GPU. Its the model 801T. And they did because China Telecom showed the middle finger to the Lumia line and requested a Symbian phone.

1: Nope. That's just rumors based on incomplete numbers.
2: Symbian was dead no matter what they would have done. Meego Is only something ex-execs are happy about. No consumer mindshare at all. It would have bombed even more than WP.
3: This is the stupidest argument ever. There have been skype in every smartphone OS. The carriers haven't hated any of them before. Do you have a source for what Elop said?

Ahonen is a bitter troll.

The 801T has nothing to do with a Lumia chassis.

 

[NeOak]

1: Nope. That's just rumors based on incomplete numbers.
2: Symbian was dead no matter what they would have done. Meego Is only something ex-execs are happy about. No consumer mindshare at all. It would have bombed even more than WP.
3: This is the stupidest argument ever. There have been skype in every smartphone OS. The carriers haven't hated any of them before. Do you have a source for what Elop said?

Ahonen is a bitter troll.

The 801T has nothing to do with a Lumia chassis.

1. Nokia isn't gonna release them because it would be embarrasing.
2. Symbian was far from dead. Stop looking at the retarded US mobile industry for that. The N8 was the most preordered Nokia phone ever. Still is. They had an estimated market share of 29% worldwide for God's sake.
3. Nokia shareholder meeting.

The only troll that has been right about this fiasco.

And yes, its not the 801T. I'll have to search for the correct model number.

 

[Fjolle]

Why was Facetime forced to be Wi-Fi only when it worked just fine over 3G on jailbroken phones?

That is because the AT&T network sucks and Apple need some "new" features to sell their iPhone5 with.

 

[Milchjon]

He means this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DV1yWwEEKk

I know

I'm just saying, you don't Need to be "under 2 seconds"-good to get up there in the ranking.

 

[mescalineeyes]

That is because the AT&T network sucks and Apple need some "new" features to sell their iPhone5 with.

which is absolute horseshit because the iPhone is a world phone and iOS 6 already allows FaceTime over 3G on existing handsets.

 

[NeOak]

That is because the AT&T network sucks and Apple need some "new" features to sell their iPhone5 with.

It works on the 4S with iOS6 over 3G. My point is that it was carrier mandated.

 

[brotkasten]

The same one that has a bad record with Microsoft phones.

One WP7 1st gen phone and... Kin.

We'll see tbh.

They never came out publicly and announced support for Windows Phone 7 or 7.5 like thes did for 8.

Verizon Wireless plans to put its marketing weight behind Microsoft Corp's next mobile phone software to help develop a strong competitor to Apple Inc and Google Inc

That's quite a different tone compared to "Uhh, yeah, here's a phone, it's cool. Now go back and buy our Droids, kthx."