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Winter Anime 2015 |OT| ZA WARUDO is not square!

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H

hosannainexcelsis

Member
cosmicblizzard said:
Awesome! Karakuri Circus anime next!

It's straight shounen and a damn good one at that. The mangaka is consistently great with his other works too.

Edit: On second thought, I can't imagine this will be adapted super well considering how long it is. 1-2 cour would NOT do it justice at all. It's a fantastic series that deserves an almost full adaptation, and at 33 volumes, that's just not feasible even if some filler is cut out.
Click to expand...

Depending on where it airs, it could still be a long-running show.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Cross Ange-17

Not surprised, Salia always was a kiss ass in need of self confirmation.

Also how did Ange not wipe the deck with them? Those jokers were barely competent before.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
MetroidPrimeRib said:
No doubt, the change from Ripple to Stands is completely abrupt. Remember that the last chapter of Battle Tendency and the first of Stardust were in the same volume too. But it is for the best.

As for the rules, there appear to be at least some rules you can discern, but I can probably think of a time each one was broken across the Parts.
Off the top of my head, the only one I can think of that has been true forever is "Stands grow weaker the further they get from the user" although I'm probably overlooking one or two.
Click to expand...

The major critique I have against the Jojo franchise is that while the "big picture" is very strong, there are many aspects, plot points, etc. that don't seem logically consistent AND COULD have been if Araki had taken just a bit more time or care. Regarding Stands, there are similarly opened ended and freeform as Devil Fruits from One Piece are. However, regardless to what creative lengths Oda takes Devil Fruits, they have and have ALWAYS had a very easy to understand origin and consistent rulesets amongst Fruit types. No matter how far and wacky things with Devil Fruits get, they make sense within their own universe. Stands kind of do and kind of don't (so far I hear things change a bit later) and it didn't need to be that way.
 
N

Narag

Member
Crocodile said:
The major critique I have against the Jojo franchise is that while the "big picture" is very strong, there are many aspects, plot points, etc. that don't seem logically consistent AND COULD have been if Araki had taken just a bit more time or care. Regarding Stands, there are similarly opened ended and freeform as Devil Fruits from One Piece are. However, regardless to what creative lengths Oda takes Devil Fruits, they have and have ALWAYS had a very easy to understand origin and consistent rulesets amongst Fruit types. No matter how far and wacky things with Devil Fruits get, they make sense within their own universe. Stands kind of do and kind of don't (so far I hear things change a bit later) and it didn't need to be that way.
Click to expand...

Stands with distinct ruleset sounds like it'd make for a less than bizarre adventure, ~chu.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Crocodile said:
The major critique I have against the Jojo franchise is that while the "big picture" is very strong, there are many aspects, plot points, etc. that don't seem logically consistent AND COULD have been if Araki had taken just a bit more time or care.
Click to expand...

Araki changes his mind and drops plot points all the time. Remember how Santana was still alive in Part 2? Don't except that to ever have a comeuppance. Honestly that's part of the charm though, in a weird way.

Narag said:
Stands with distinct ruleset sounds like it'd make for a less than bizarre adventure, ~chu.
Click to expand...

This as well. Devil Fruits are similar in the wacky powers way, but Devil Fruits are way more consistent and thus less flexible. Plus one of the best parts of Stands are the designs, which One Piece doesn't do.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Jarmel said:
Sounds like it would be better then to just not have any ruleset at all.
Click to expand...

There isn't, really. Like I said there's a ruleset that most follow, like the Star Platinum 2m range manifestation is human-like types, the most common type. But ones like Strength, Anubis and Wheel of Fortune don't really fall into those rulesets anyway, and there are more of those odd ones in later parts.
 
C

Crash Station

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
Depending on where it airs, it could still be a long-running show.
Click to expand...

This is true. I never thought Madhouse would air almost the entirety of HxH, not to mention keeping it consistent for most of its run. I guess anything can happen.

That being said, it's not even in the same league as HxH as far as popularity goes. Fujita is no Togashi unfortunately.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
A) Would anyone ever call Oda and his implementation of Devil Fruits in lacking creativity or of not being bizarre? Even something as distinct classes of Stands (Weapon Types vs Humanoid Types for Field Types vs etc.) would do the concept well.

B) Mech anime is in a bad place. Have we had any standout shows since Gurren Lagann or Eureka Seven? I'm drawing blanks :(
 
U

UltraGunner

Banned
Cross Ange 17

Finally we're done with the True Earth story arc. It was fine since it provided some much needed background story and explained the motivations of all the antagonists, but it just dragged on too long by focusing too much on trying to make TuskxAnge interesting (which it didn't). And Shock! Ange's been betrayed by her former comrades sporting their Mid Season upgrades (all of which are conveniently Villkiss repaints). I wish we got more episodes on Sala, since she is WAYYY more interesting than Ange.

And really, all this accidental pervertedness with Tusk would make Love Hina say that it's overbearing.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Crocodile said:
A) Would anyone ever call Oda and his implementation of Devil Fruits in lacking creativity or of not being bizarre? Even something as distinct classes of Stands (Weapon Types vs Humanoid Types for Field Types vs etc.) would do the concept well.
Click to expand...

No. Oda is very creative, even if some of the powers (Ice Logia and Snow Logia + others I am forgetting) tend to blend together. Araki is guilty of that as well on at least one occasion.
I would say there are far more useless/weak Devil Fruits. Most Stands pose some sort of threat, there are few that are just bad. There are also few incredibly overpowered Stands, but the ones that are are completely ridiculous, much like the stronger Devil Fruits like Kuma's and Whitebeard's.

Crocodile said:
B)[/B] Mech anime is in a bad place. Have we had any standout shows since Gurren Lagann or Eureka Seven? I'm drawing blanks :(
Click to expand...

Build Fighters!
Shin Mazinger Z is supposed to be pretty good too, still need to watch that.
 
C

Crash Station

Member
Crocodile said:
The major critique I have against the Jojo franchise is that while the "big picture" is very strong, there are many aspects, plot points, etc. that don't seem logically consistent AND COULD have been if Araki had taken just a bit more time or care. Regarding Stands, there are similarly opened ended and freeform as Devil Fruits from One Piece are. However, regardless to what creative lengths Oda takes Devil Fruits, they have and have ALWAYS had a very easy to understand origin and consistent rulesets amongst Fruit types. No matter how far and wacky things with Devil Fruits get, they make sense within their own universe. Stands kind of do and kind of don't (so far I hear things change a bit later) and it didn't need to be that way.
Click to expand...

The thing is Araki's story-telling is A LOT more malleable than Oda's, as made apparent by last minute plot point changes (because he changed his mind, not due to editor interference) and outright FORGETTING stuff.

Because of that, Stands have a lot more creative freedom than Devil Fruits. Hell, I'd say it's the MOST creatively free set of abilities in all of fiction. Literally ANY base power and any ruleset is fair game provided it is within the confines of human imagination, and that includes all the convolution that goes with it.

Want a power that removes momentum with the assistance of bubbles? Make it a Stand! Want a power that can turn styrofoam cups into gatling guns and do nothing else? Make it a Stand! Want a power that allows you to turn your arms into helicopter blades during a full moon in February while you're wearing a pink t-shirt and it only works for 10 minutes? Make it a Stand!

And that's why JoJo is awesome.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Crocodile said:

B) Mech anime is in a bad place. Have we had any standout shows since Gurren Lagann or Eureka Seven? I'm drawing blanks :(
Click to expand...

It's dead Jim. Unless you're Sunrise or BONES (maybe Trigger done the road), you're not doing a 2D mecha show.

So starting from there, the number of ambitious plot driven mecha shows isn't skyhigh and the writers doing them aren't that great. Most such as Aldnoah and Unicorn are either a literal Gundam sequel or some variation on the Gundam formula.

The only exception for like the last five years is Build Fighters. Star Driver had a lot of potential but Enokido and Igarashi pissed it down the drain by not doing anything exciting with the story, instead they just followed the Utena format but without most of the skill Ikuhara has for characters and themes.

So if you want a high quality 2D mecha show that isn't Gundam or something like Code Geass, you pretty much have to hope some high quality writer like Dai Sato helps out with a new BONES show. In short, it's somewhat fucked up as a genre/field.
 
J

JCG

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
Director: Satoshi Nishimura (Hajime no Ippo, Trigun)
Series Composition: Toshiki Inoue (Dennou Coil, Death Note)
Character Design: Tomoko Mori (animation director on Hunter X Hunter 2011)
Animation Production: MAPPA/Studio Voln (who?)

Looks potentially interesting. Anyone read the manga/watched the earlier OVAs?
Click to expand...

If it is anything like Trigun, then maybe staying true to the manga will not matter too much.

Cautiously optimistic.

Cloudy said:
No it's really good. Best mech action I've seen in a long time + intriguing plot and good chracters
Click to expand...

I have to assume you didn't watch Majestic Prince or Build Fighters since they both had far better robot action than anything in Cross Ange.

I'm not going to comment on the rest of the show, but I wouldn't have nice things to say either.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
I have to assume you didn't watch Majestic Prince or Build Fighters since they both had far better robot action than anything in Cross Ange.
Click to expand...

I watched about 6 eps of MP and 1 ep of BF. Dull...
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
I should also note that there aren't many LN/Manga source materials for mechs to adapt so from a Production Committee standpoint, you're by and large looking at a risky anime original production.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
I think I watched half of Majestic Prince and then dropped it. I heard it got good in the end though so maybe I should go back to it. VVV was a shit show through and through though. I thought it was going to be a "so bad its good show" but it ended up just being bad. Whoever thought episode 10 was a good idea needs to be banned from writing anime :/

cosmicblizzard said:
The thing is Araki's story-telling is A LOT more malleable than Oda's, as made apparent by last minute plot point changes (because he changed his mind, not due to editor interference) and outright FORGETTING stuff.

Because of that, Stands have a lot more creative freedom than Devil Fruits. Hell, I'd say it's the MOST creatively free set of abilities in all of fiction. Literally ANY base power and any ruleset is fair game provided it is within the confines of human imagination, and that includes all the convolution that goes with it.

Want a power that removes momentum with the assistance of bubbles? Make it a Stand! Want a power that can turn styrofoam cups into gatling guns and do nothing else? Make it a Stand! Want a power that allows you to turn your arms into helicopter blades during a full moon in February while you're wearing a pink t-shirt and it only works for 10 minutes? Make it a Stand!

And that's why JoJo is awesome.
Click to expand...

Funnily enough, though I know which Stand you are referring to with the first example, isn't that almost describe TWO Devil Fruits as well? I'm going to assume the last two examples are jokes though.

I dunno, I strongly feel Stands and most parts of Jojo could well retain all the parts that make them awesome even if Araki was less sloppy with the narrative.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Crocodile said:
Funnily enough, though I know which Stand you are referring to with the first example, isn't that almost describe TWO Devil Fruits as well? I'm going to assume the last two examples are jokes though.

I dunno, I strongly feel Stands and most parts of Jojo could well retain all the parts that make them awesome even if Araki was less sloppy with the narrative.
Click to expand...

Alvida's Friction Fruit can kind of do that, but the Stand can do more then that. It can remove any property, it can steal something from an object and remove it/take it for itself. Stands deal in more abstract terms and abilities then Devil Fruits as well.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Jarmel said:
It's dead Jim. Unless you're Sunrise or BONES (maybe Trigger done the road), you're not doing a 2D mecha show.

So starting from there, the number of ambitious plot driven mecha shows isn't skyhigh and the writers doing them aren't that great. Most such as Aldnoah and Unicorn are either a literal Gundam sequel or some variation on the Gundam formula.

The only exception for like the last five years is Build Fighters. Star Driver had a lot of potential but Enokido and Igarashi pissed it down the drain by not doing anything exciting with the story, instead they just followed the Utena format but without most of the skill Ikuhara has for characters and themes.

So if you want a high quality 2D mecha show that isn't Gundam or something like Code Geass, you pretty much have to hope some high quality writer like Dai Sato helps out with a new BONES show. In short, it's somewhat fucked up as a genre/field.
Click to expand...

Mecha always felt like one of the "Pillars on Anime" when I first started getting into this medium. It really sucks that is seems to have all disappeared. Especially the super robot stuff - as you say its often Gundam derivatives but they almost always botch the drama :/

I'm also still salty about Symbiotic Titan and to a lesser degree Mega XLR :/
 
Q

Quasar

Member
Well one of the few modern mech anime I liked was Valvrave. Was just a bit bummed by the short and rushed epilogue.
 
M

madp

The Light of El Cantare
MetroidPrimeRib said:
Different strokes for different folks I guess. GBF is by far the best mech anime I've seen since TTGL
Click to expand...

Probably the only mecha anime that aired between the two that has a decent claim to being good is Shin Mazinger Shougeki Z-Hen, but I've seen very little so I can't independently confirm. Nobody knows it exists and most of the few who tried it bailed early because it drops you in in media res.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
madp said:
Probably the only mecha anime that aired between the two that has a decent claim to being good is Shin Mazinger Shougeki Z-Hen, but I've seen very little so I can't independently confirm. Nobody knows it exists and most of the few who tried it bailed early because it drops you in in media res.
Click to expand...

I still need to watch it. I plan on it someday just because people say it was a good series in between TTGL and GBF but I have other stuff that's higher on my list to watch
like Symphogear
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
I recommend Cross Ange to everyone here. Just look past the pervy stuff (much more prevalent in the early eps). I am binge-watching it right now cos it's so interesting lol

Just one..or two more eps tonight lol
 
M

madp

The Light of El Cantare
MetroidPrimeRib said:
I still need to watch it. I plan on it someday just because people say it was a good series in between TTGL and GBF but I have other stuff that's higher on my list to watch
like Symphogear
Click to expand...

I'll get around to my Imagawa binge one of these years.
 
K

KirbYuuYuu

Member
Detective Opera Milky Holmes 1

278becedfc.jpg
Click to expand...

BECAUSE IT ONLY AIRS FOR 3 MONTHS HYUCK HYUCK HYUCK

There are things that I can totally question right now, but I just feel like asking them will be a pointless endeavor. For the time being, it'll be slow trucking through the only 2 seasons that exists of Milky Holmes
 
D

duckroll

Member
Crocodile said:
Mecha always felt like one of the "Pillars on Anime" when I first started getting into this medium. It really sucks that is seems to have all disappeared. Especially the super robot stuff - as you say its often Gundam derivatives but they almost always botch the drama :/

I'm also still salty about Symbiotic Titan and to a lesser degree Mega XLR :/
Click to expand...

I don't think it has disappeared at all. There are still a bunch of mecha shows made every year. Every season there is usually at least one mecha show, and last year some seasons had multiple at the same time. There are mecha film and OVAs too. Sure, not all of them turn out well, but that's entertainment in a nutshell.

If we want to talk about "pillars of anime", well, when was the last really significant magical girl show? Madoka? What about before that?
 
K

KirbYuuYuu

Member
duckroll said:
I don't think it has disappeared at all. There are still a bunch of mecha shows made every year. Every season there is usually at least one mecha show, and last year some seasons had multiple at the same time. There are mecha film and OVAs too. Sure, not all of them turn out well, but that's entertainment in a nutshell.

If we want to talk about "pillars of anime", well, when was the last really significant magical girl show? Madoka? What about before that?
Click to expand...

Precure and Precure
 
B

Basileus777

Member
duckroll said:
I don't think it has disappeared at all. There are still a bunch of mecha shows made every year. Every season there is usually at least one mecha show, and last year some seasons had multiple at the same time. There are mecha film and OVAs too. Sure, not all of them turn out well, but that's entertainment in a nutshell.

If we want to talk about "pillars of anime", well, when was the last really significant magical girl show? Madoka? What about before that?
Click to expand...

How could you get more significant than Sailor Moon Crystal?
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Basileus777 said:
How could you get more significant than Sailor Moon Crystal?
Click to expand...

It takes a special kind of incompetent to screw that up. One of the most beloved IPs worldwide and NOBODY on this side of the Pacific seems to give a shit. Did ANYBODY vote for that in the AOTY thread? LOL

duckroll said:
I don't think it has disappeared at all. There are still a bunch of mecha shows made every year. Every season there is usually at least one mecha show, and last year some seasons had multiple at the same time. There are mecha film and OVAs too. Sure, not all of them turn out well, but that's entertainment in a nutshell.

If we want to talk about "pillars of anime", well, when was the last really significant magical girl show? Madoka? What about before that?
Click to expand...

I mean I guess mecha shows "exist" but they are almost all terrible. Like just AWFUL. I don't consider the fact that Cross Ange merely exists as proof that the mecha genre is in a good place :/ Also, where all the Super Robot shows at? :(

As for Magical Girls, yeah it seems Precue has been getting ALL the attention. Isn't Yuki Yuna is a hero or whatever kind of good? Is that Okada anime (Selector something) kind of Magical Girly but with digital cards or something?
 
L

Link Man

Banned
Nanoha A's 9

And here's that tense scene I was hoping for last episode.

Did...did Nanoha just become a badass?

So much bondage. :\

Well shit. Insanity mode engaged.

This just got really interesting! Wait, there's still 4 more episodes? Holy crap.
 
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