Generally, the purpose of categorization is to make things more distinct but what the term JRPG has done has actually confounded meaning. Can you have a JPOP group that's not Japanese? Because the term JRPG has come to mean more than what it originally signified, so much so that developers outside of Japan have mentioned wanting to develop a "JRPG". If a JRPG is not location-specific then it doesn't serve much good as a cultural demarcation of a game. Especially if you were trying to explain it to a layperson.
With this generation, the last bastion of JRPGs is seemingly coming to an end.
- Thread starter Firemind
- Start date
CaviarMeths
Member
Also, I think the idea that turn-based RPGs are obsolete and have been "replaced" by ARPGs is a false notion. They play fundamentally differently and appeal to a different audience. There's space for both to exist and be successful in today's market.
Yeah, I guess calling it turn-based is pushing it a lot. Still, it's very much a natural progression of old JRPG traditions.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
I don't know about you but I'm a huge JRPG fan and I'm still insanely excited for Final Fantasy XV, Star Ocean V, Bravely Second, Ys VIII, that new Gust game with those two girls in which the name escapes me, Kingdom Hearts III, Xenoblade Chronicles X (yes I know it was mentioned in the OP), Tales of Zestiria, The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky SC, and probably a few others that I'm forgetting.
This, so much.
I feel like it's a REALLY exciting time to be a JRPG fan. Huge franchises are lining up quality installments. S-E and Atlus look like they're ready to go back to the top of their game. Indies are creating exciting new IPs.
Sure from a gameplay standpoint, but I think from a publishers point of view they are obsolete. Turn based games don't have the broader appeal ARPGs do and I think the people who absolutely refuse to play them are a small minority in the RPG community. If something like Mass Effect or the Witcher were turn based games I would guarantee they wouldn't sell as well.
They'll hit a revival. Most genres have gone through this at one point or another. Fighting games went through a long lull (not "dead" like people love to claim, but there was a period where the main games were somewhat quiet) before its current explosion.
And also:
There's folks like this <3
And also:
We're on it.
There's folks like this <3
Dark_castle
Junior Member
No, perhaps Terra Battle isn't a throwaway mobile game, but it still IS a mobile game. Maybe it's just me, but I would much rather have these two developers working on something suited to their potential than freaking mobile games. Let King or SE or Kemco or Konami make more of mobile games, I want Sakaguchi and Matsuno to make a full-fledged, traditional console RPG goddamnit. Same goes to Murayama (creator of Suikoden), but that guy doesn't seem interested in making video games anymore.
Nocturno999
Member
We're on it.
Looks very nice. Gives me Phantasy Star vibes.
Shadowplay1979
Member
We're on it.
I really like what Zeboyd does and enjoy the games...but this new spate of western made faux japanese games will never really contain the feel that Japanese games did in the past. Its like an American remake of Akira.
Its like all the pixel games that have popped up in the last few years with the retro craze....they dont really carry the feel of old school games to me. They are a new genre unto themselves...they are fun games and some really good ones but again just not the same feel to me.
I think the root of it ( outside of the cultural thing) is vision . When you played Final Fantasy 1-6 you were playing as full grown Amano characters. thats how they were intended to be and if you grew up back then thats how you saw them, you knew you had tech limitations but you didnt see them as super deformed little characters.
Now with retro thing, the characters are purposefully made into little cartoon characters...in a lot of ways it just makes it feel more like a parody of the games and less like the games themselves.
I have nothing against the games..ok maybe the 400 or so poorly drawn "very obviously western trying to draw in a japanese style" RPGMaker games on steam.
Retro games in general though or New-Pixel games are a genre unto themselves.
That should be the name for them , i like that..Neu-Pixel
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
lol. I literally cannot stand most of those in that list. Some I haven't played (Shadow Hearts series, Arc the Lad, BoF V), but of those that I did, Suikoden V is the only palatable one.
I also had no idea .hack actually had fans. xD
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Tactics
Xenogears
Vagrant Story
Chrono Cross
Parasite Eve
Legend of Mana
Dragon Quest VII
Valkyrie's Profile
Saga Frontier
Saga Frontier II
Front Mission III
Breath of Fire III
Breath of Fire IV
Suikoden
Suikoden II
Grandia
Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete
Lunar: Eternal Blue
Wild Arms
Wild Arms 2
Star Ocean: The Second Story
Tales of Destiny
Tales of Eternia
Legend of Dragoon
Legend of Legaia
Alundra
Arc the Lad I-III
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment
Koudelka
Threads of Fate
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
We're just discussing what kind of JRPG we prefer, is all.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Hahaha, I guess our tastes are just different. Except in Bloodborne
I have played every single one of these and I bolded out the ones that I enjoyed. Well, different taste I suppose, I still find the PS2 era's JRPG to be much superior than PS1's.
With proper refinement they can be quite involving. Case in point: Final Fantasy X. Or heck, even Breath of Fire IV. Hell, even Pokemon's battle system can be quite deep.
I'll be honest and say when I played FF I - VI I didn't care who Amano was and only saw the characters in their pixel form. I played these when I was growing up and thought the Amano art style was poor, and I still don't like it.
KiTA
Member
Meanwhile, Yuji Horii seemingly confirmed Dragon Quest 11 will be a PS4 title.
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/05/2...a-new-dragon-quest-game-for-playstation-soon/
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/05/2...a-new-dragon-quest-game-for-playstation-soon/
As long as Compile Heart keep making Neptunia RPGs i'll be happy
Don't read too much in to that....
Don't read too much in to that....
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Best part about JRPGs is the world building, characters, and epic stories, sometimes spanning multiple arcs. JRPGs are usually long enough that you get attached to the characters, like in a book. And, of course, the ultimate highlight - the theme of growth, learning something or becoming more powerful throughout the course of the story. There's nothing like encountering a boss you once you not scratch and can now fight evenly, or going back to a low level area and thinking "these things gave me trouble?"
I don't mind if they're pixel art, cel shaded, anime, realistic, console, handheld, turn based, action, whatever. As long as it has that epic scope and enjoyable, interactive story and feeling of personal growth, we're good. But if you just gave everything Grandia's battle system, that would also be cool.
That said, I don't think they're dead. Or dying. There's plenty on the horizon. Star Ocean 5 getting announced came totally out of left field. FFXV may lead to a resurgence in their popularity if it's successful.
I don't mind if they're pixel art, cel shaded, anime, realistic, console, handheld, turn based, action, whatever. As long as it has that epic scope and enjoyable, interactive story and feeling of personal growth, we're good. But if you just gave everything Grandia's battle system, that would also be cool.
That said, I don't think they're dead. Or dying. There's plenty on the horizon. Star Ocean 5 getting announced came totally out of left field. FFXV may lead to a resurgence in their popularity if it's successful.
the what? Peggle is not skilless, only people that suck at it insist it is, and turn based RPG combat can be amazing, it's not about pressing X, it's about strategy, planing and using right skills/characters at the right time.
you should learn "opinions and how they work" lesson, level up some, don't sit there at level 1.
I can't agree with you here, Valkyria Chronicles is TRPG, more or less, it's not JRPG though, that's true.
What's there to understand? I love the game, why would I troll it? I'm so confused...
To each their own. There is plenty of tactics, skill and variety in turn-based systems, whether it's the turn-order juggling in FFX, using binds and chase attacks to maximise damage in Etrian Odyssey, or the positioning in Trails in the Sky. It sounds like you only see turn-based systems as being the attack/magic/item/flee systems that JRPGs stuck to fifteen years ago.
There are so many different varieties of combat in rpgs that it's easy to make something sound crap by over-simplification. I could just as equally say "action-rpgs are button-mashing, 'press a for awesome' lunacy with no time to execute tactics in a three-second fight as the npc party members shit the bed while the player hammers the attack button", and would be equally as wrong as your dismissal of the different mechanics of dozens of games.
I love all kinds of rpgs, a simple battle system isn't necessarily one that requires no skill, and an overly complex one is not necessarily 'fun'. I find the beauty in the balance of the systems and mechanics in play, which isn't unique to one or the other, good and bad examples exist in both.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Hahaha, I guess our tastes are just different. Except in Bloodborne
I have played every single one of these and I bolded out the ones that I enjoyed. Well, different taste I suppose, I still find the PS2 era's JRPG to be much superior than PS1's.
With proper refinement they can be quite involving. Case in point: Final Fantasy X. Or heck, even Breath of Fire IV. Hell, even Pokemon's battle system can be quite deep.
Please don't tell me you think Suikoden IV is better than Suikoden.
Maybe you should just accept that what you're personally interested in and what these talented creators actually want to do are no longer the same thing. It's okay to accept that, instead of demanding for people to make things they don't want to. If there's no passion in it, what good would it be anyway.
Suikoden II is the best from the series and 4 was the weakest, but I'd argue III and V hold on their own and made their PS2 output is awesome too and because I like both game more than 1, I put the series perform better at PS2, even IV is quite okay.
...Isn't Mistwalker supposed to be starting on a console version of Terra Battle if the Download Starter is any indication? When's that going to come out?
About that.... (keep in mind that Mistwalker is less than 10 people)
http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/5/8157971/terra-battle-console
http://gematsu.com/2015/05/mistwalker-no-ideas-console-version-terra-battle
Hey, they promised it. =P
Dark_castle
Junior Member
You have a point. I guess I'll just cry myself to bed the day Hiroyuki Ito comes out and announce a mobile game he's been working on while Motomu Toriyama announces a new console RPG directed by him, because they wanted to.
PS1 JRPG's >>> PS2 JRPG's imo. The 3D and CD technology of the PS1 had an unseen and an enormous, positive impact on the presentation of the genre.
Sure, the PS2 was more powerful as well and had DVD technology but most Jdevs took the safe road, stopped innovating and just copied whatever Final Fantasy did. With their lazy overemphasis on voiceacting and cutscenes to tell substandard stories featuring generic teen characters, most JRPG franchises simply went downhill.
Suikoden, Final Fantasy, Arc the Lad, Breath of Fire, Grandia II and Xenosaga games were considered average or at least not on the same level as their PS1 prequels. Kingdom hearts was well recieved but it felt like a poor action game to me. The .hack games were mediocre with thin spread filler content. Shadow hearts was amusing but ended up getting milked a little but too much.
I ended up enjoying Dragon Quest VIII, Odin Sphere, Disgaea, FFX, FFXII and Persona 4 but most of that was all very late-gen and the rest of the 20-30 JRPG's I played, welI ... simple hack&slash WRPG's like Baldur's gate or Champions of Norrath were far more enjoyable.
The genre got 15 years time to prove they could become 'quite involving' with proper refinement. Needless to say ... they didn't exactly succeed, did they? At least not on consoles, with their big and misplaced budgets.
E3: After a decade, Hironobu Sakaguchi taps former company Square Enix for resources to make console version of hit game Terra Battle.
If I wish it it'll come true, won't it?
Xenoblade X is really as Japanese as you can get. The fact that you call it western yet go to cite Kingdom Hearts as a JRPG under your rules is absolutely baffling with the former having a stronger lean torwards traditional turn based mechanics than Kingdom Hearts ever had outside of that minigame in Coded.
cantona222
Member
Pokémon is alive and kicking
ChaosZeroX
Banned
I've actually felt like JRPGs are making a comeback.
Apparently, anything using vaguely sci-fi aesthetics and a partially real-time battle system is tainted by the foul corruption of the West. Kingdom Hearts, by contrast, is a pure JRPG; despite being both action-based and featuring half of the Disney Animated Canon.
shoryukens
Member
???
Atlus is at its most successful now than its ever been; consistently releasing quality JRPGs.
Also I want no part of a jrpg "revival" if it means more games like Nino Kuni.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Nah, you don't even level "one character", you just dump money into "scouts" being better. VC is a turn-based strategy game, through and through. The word RPG doesn't belong anywhere near it.
http://gematsu.com/2015/05/yuji-hor...playstation-related-dragon-quest-announcement
Dragon Quest doesn't seem so dead either.
Dragon Quest doesn't seem so dead either.
I never said Kingdom Hearts was a JRPG, much less traditional. That list was only supposed to highlight the current gaming environment, the shifting of trends and associated struggles of Japanese console developers. In fact, the only explicit 'rule' I ever stated was turn-based and not action-based.
At any rate, Xenoblade X is almost assuredly going to bomb commercially and that will be that.
I suppose you're right.
No.
I could see it. As a niche genre.
Refer to the above.
Like has been said before, Persona 3 to 4 took a lot less time than from 4 to 5. Plus, during the PS2 generation, Atlus was constantly churning out games in Japan. I'm willing to bet it's more than the current release schedule.
thelastcrusader
Banned
Should have been 1st post. JRPGs seem to be thriving!
Been looking forward to it since the KS!
Toadthemushroom
Member
While I don't necessarily agree, one thing I do miss regarding big console RPGs was when platform holders were willing to put their money towards funding or backing them. So while as a whole the JRPG hasn't declined, I do feel that there's less room for the bigger budget, specialised console RPG to breathe nowadays.
Last generation we had Microsoft fund or at least help fund and publish a fair few from many major developers and publishers, that money either making sure the game gets made and put under the company's belt (Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Infinite Undiscovery, The Last Remnant), or that Microsoft received the game first as part of the contract (Eternal Sonata, Star Ocean 4).
Nintendo too -- they greenlit quite a few DS and Wii RPGs from developers that weren't under their umbrella of studios and teams (not Monolith Soft then).
As Nintendo became more insular halfway through this generation in order to minimise their risks and maintain a steady profit, I've noticed these sort of games haven't emerged this generation from Nintendo the publisher. Perhaps we'll see them at E3? Likewise for Microsoft, I'm guessing pouring similar amounts of cash into similar games again this generation probably wasn't seen sustainable for the company, or to investors that Microsoft has to please.
There's also arguably been a structural change across the industry which might mean it's harder to get these kinds of projects on the go, though that applies to all genres really -- a lot of developers who did produce games for platform holders and publishers have either moved on to different things (like iNiS) or they've gone for good (like Cing).
Would anyone say there's a parallel with developers that once specialised in JRPGs?
Last generation we had Microsoft fund or at least help fund and publish a fair few from many major developers and publishers, that money either making sure the game gets made and put under the company's belt (Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Infinite Undiscovery, The Last Remnant), or that Microsoft received the game first as part of the contract (Eternal Sonata, Star Ocean 4).
Nintendo too -- they greenlit quite a few DS and Wii RPGs from developers that weren't under their umbrella of studios and teams (not Monolith Soft then).
As Nintendo became more insular halfway through this generation in order to minimise their risks and maintain a steady profit, I've noticed these sort of games haven't emerged this generation from Nintendo the publisher. Perhaps we'll see them at E3? Likewise for Microsoft, I'm guessing pouring similar amounts of cash into similar games again this generation probably wasn't seen sustainable for the company, or to investors that Microsoft has to please.
There's also arguably been a structural change across the industry which might mean it's harder to get these kinds of projects on the go, though that applies to all genres really -- a lot of developers who did produce games for platform holders and publishers have either moved on to different things (like iNiS) or they've gone for good (like Cing).
Would anyone say there's a parallel with developers that once specialised in JRPGs?