With Wii-Cafe, is it time for Mario and classic Nintendo franchise to evolve?
- Thread starter beast786
- Start date
Criminal Upper
Banned
Nintendo's character's not changing is the only thing that makes this industry fun and familiar.
Instead of "white guy with gun"
Instead of "white guy with gun"
Count Dookkake
Member
No.
lol
lol
From The Dust
Banned
MYE said:
I remember when those screens were first revealled. I said wow
Cow Mengde said:
Because it would be pointless. One of Nintendo's selling points for its main franchises was that they've always been all-ages propositions. Sure, it may get them called kiddy, but I don't see most "mature" games pushing New Super Mario Brothers Wii numbers.beast786 said:
BUT "WHITE GUY WITH GUN" IS WHAT'S HOT RIGHT NOW!Criminal Upper said:
I don't think Sly, Jak or Ratchet have evolved.
Their developers started new franchises, but the older universes are intact. Jak, less so as there was an obvious change from the first game to the next two. But at least that didn't come after dozens of games with an iconic character.
Mario is a lighthearted game. It's atmosphere, art direction, and characters are a reflection of that. If I was to pinpoint what Mario games aim to provide, as vomit inducing as this may be to some, it's the feeling of awe and wonder. The feeling you most strongly have when you're a kid. Many people, even as adults, can relate to that. If this no longer appeals to you, that's fine. But that doesn't mean the series needs to evolve on a fundamental level. To change the foundation would mean to change what that game is. In that scenario, you don't aim to mature what is there. You're better off working on a new IP instead.
I think the way Mario games are evolving right now is fine. They keep the atmosphere and characters the way they're supposed to be, and focus on providing new settings that work around that and provide fun gameplay. This is the best way to move forward in my eyes for this series.
Some series are more open to change than others. It just so happens that Mario is not one of them. More often that not however, I would say new IPs are the way to go. Create new universes, characters, settings and provide new experiences. There's no need to use established IPs for that as they have their own purpose.
Also, as a note, I'm not a rabid Mario fan speaking though I am a fan. The earlier Mario games, like SMB3/SMBW, are two of my favourite games of all time. But I also thought SM64 and SMS sucked, nor did I like SMB2.
And yes, I would welcome new IPs. I always do.
Their developers started new franchises, but the older universes are intact. Jak, less so as there was an obvious change from the first game to the next two. But at least that didn't come after dozens of games with an iconic character.
Mario is a lighthearted game. It's atmosphere, art direction, and characters are a reflection of that. If I was to pinpoint what Mario games aim to provide, as vomit inducing as this may be to some, it's the feeling of awe and wonder. The feeling you most strongly have when you're a kid. Many people, even as adults, can relate to that. If this no longer appeals to you, that's fine. But that doesn't mean the series needs to evolve on a fundamental level. To change the foundation would mean to change what that game is. In that scenario, you don't aim to mature what is there. You're better off working on a new IP instead.
I think the way Mario games are evolving right now is fine. They keep the atmosphere and characters the way they're supposed to be, and focus on providing new settings that work around that and provide fun gameplay. This is the best way to move forward in my eyes for this series.
Some series are more open to change than others. It just so happens that Mario is not one of them. More often that not however, I would say new IPs are the way to go. Create new universes, characters, settings and provide new experiences. There's no need to use established IPs for that as they have their own purpose.
Also, as a note, I'm not a rabid Mario fan speaking though I am a fan. The earlier Mario games, like SMB3/SMBW, are two of my favourite games of all time. But I also thought SM64 and SMS sucked, nor did I like SMB2.
And yes, I would welcome new IPs. I always do.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
That isn't 'evolving'.
That's regressing.
That's regressing.
From The Dust
Banned
SmithnCo said:
again
it only adds to the rumors
Mama Robotnik
Member
Back in 2002 I was bored while I was meant to be researching for my university disseration. In the computer suite, I browsed forums for hours, anything to distract me from doing any actual work.
I stumbled upon a thread on IGN, in which someone had proposed their idea for a supposedly "mature" Zelda game. It was set in a future New York city, in which the evil CEO G Dorf, ran the Gerudo megacorp, and was using his connections to the criminal "darkworld" to gradually take over the entire city, with the eventual intention of becoming Mayor.
To complete his sinister plans, G Dorf needed to create the bioweapon Toxic Residue Indigo FORCE (TRI-FORCE) and was organising various robberies from science laboratories to complete this.
Enter Lee NK (Link), riding into town on his motorbike (Epona), a rebel without a cause just passing by. The current Mayor's daughter (Zelldah) appeals to his kinder side, and Link fights the forces of G Dorf in an open world city brawler, in which violence is the only answer. You'd behead enemies, choke them on the hookshot chain, and immolate them with a flame thrower ironically called "DINZ FIRE".
It was called "Zelda: Keepin' it Real", and would have put the Playstation 2 in its place, the OP assured.
It was the worst thread I'd ever read. And thanks to this OP, it has finally been beaten, after nine long years. Well done.
I stumbled upon a thread on IGN, in which someone had proposed their idea for a supposedly "mature" Zelda game. It was set in a future New York city, in which the evil CEO G Dorf, ran the Gerudo megacorp, and was using his connections to the criminal "darkworld" to gradually take over the entire city, with the eventual intention of becoming Mayor.
To complete his sinister plans, G Dorf needed to create the bioweapon Toxic Residue Indigo FORCE (TRI-FORCE) and was organising various robberies from science laboratories to complete this.
Enter Lee NK (Link), riding into town on his motorbike (Epona), a rebel without a cause just passing by. The current Mayor's daughter (Zelldah) appeals to his kinder side, and Link fights the forces of G Dorf in an open world city brawler, in which violence is the only answer. You'd behead enemies, choke them on the hookshot chain, and immolate them with a flame thrower ironically called "DINZ FIRE".
It was called "Zelda: Keepin' it Real", and would have put the Playstation 2 in its place, the OP assured.
It was the worst thread I'd ever read. And thanks to this OP, it has finally been beaten, after nine long years. Well done.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Alrus said:
Sony didn't own the Crash IP, Universal Interactive did. Naughty Dog just made the games.
Fernando Rocker
Banned
Mama Robotnik said:
Wait... was that thread real?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Don't all those "evolved" Sony games sell less than their predecessors did?
I swear, people refer to the Big N like it's a struggling developer. It owns the three biggest long-lived gaming franchises on the planet (Mario, Zelda, Pokémon). Most other developers would kill for its second and third tier franchises (Donkey Kong, Metroid, Smash Bros., Nintendogs et al., Animal Crossing, Star Fox, Mario Kart, Pikmin, Kirby, WarioWare). We're talking about, bar none, the most successful software developer and publisher in the history of the business.
All Nintendo needs to do is keep making good games. Who gives a damn about the rest.
All Nintendo needs to do is keep making good games. Who gives a damn about the rest.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Fernando Rocker said:
I assumed so at the time, I think a nine year old had wrote it. There were a number of spelling issues and I may be off on the finer details, but I clearly remember reading it and feeling the light drain out of the room.
The fundamental reason why Mario can't evolve is the reason why we don't see much of a mature Mickey Mouse. You might see the character placed in more realistic situations but the character themselves are still the same. The characters of Mickey Mouse and Mario are loved and very successful for a reason.
From Jak to Drake and Sly to Cole, it's possible for Miyamoto to create a mature character and franchise. Mario will not change, nor should it (imho).
From Jak to Drake and Sly to Cole, it's possible for Miyamoto to create a mature character and franchise. Mario will not change, nor should it (imho).
Count Dookkake
Member
DarkPanda said:
lol.
I wonder, how old is OP?
Wolves Evolve
Member
Mama Robotnik said:
There are spelling errors here too, so who knows. Maybe there's a version of the hanta virus out there that makes people inherit the worst idea on the planet at any given time.
I had a friend at primary school that assured me a side-scrolling beat-em-up with with Mario and Link beating up the Mad Gear Gang would be a hit.
Some people are just doomed.
Mario and its universe is timeless, why would you ruin that by making everything dark brown, gritty, and pointy? You know how many companies would KILL to have their own "Mario" to spin off sports games and rpg's and what not? Besides the only evolution that matters is the gameplay between other games in the series.
Always-honest
Banned
Deadly Cyclone said:Well I mas more talking about all Mario games in which he is the star. You could look at both consoles and handhelds too, basically Mario as a brand.
Mario Bros. (Famicom) - Japan release
Mario's Bombs Away (Game & Watch) - North America and Japan release
Mario's Cement Factory (Game & Watch) - North America and Japan release
Super Mario Bros. (Famicom/NES) - North America and Japan release
Wrecking Crew (Famicom/NES) - North America and Japan release - Mario is the main character.
Mario Bros. II (Commodore 64) - European and North American release
Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES) - North America release
Super Mario Land (Game Boy) - North America and Japan release
Dr. Mario (NES)
Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)
Mario the Juggler (Game & Watch) - North America and Japan release
Mario Teaches Typing (MS-DOS) - North America release
Super Mario World (SNES) - North America release
Super Mario Bros. & Friends: When I Grow Up (PC) - North America release
Mario Is Missing! (DOS, SNES)
Mario Paint (SNES)
Mario's Time Machine (DOS, SNES)
Super Mario All-Stars (Super Famicom/SNES)
Mario and Wario (SNES/Super Famicon)
Mario's Time Machine (NES) - North America only
Mario's Tennis (Virtual Boy)
Mario Clash (Virtual Boy)
Mario's Picross (Game Boy)
Mario's Picross 2 (Game Boy) - Japan only
Mario's Super Picross (Super Famicom) - Japan only
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (SNES)
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars (Super Famicom/SNES)
Super Mario 64 (Nintendo 64)
Mario Kart 64 (Nintendo 64)
Mario Bros. Deluxe (Game Boy Color)
Mario Golf (Game Boy Color, Nintendo 64) - (Game Boy Color) Japan release
Mario Party (Nintendo 64)
Mario Party 2 (Nintendo 64)
Super Mario Sunshine (GameCube)
Paper Mario (Nintendo 64)
Mario Kart: Double Dash‼
Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga (Game Boy Advance)
New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo DS)
Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) - November 12, 2007 (USA)
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (DS)
New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Wii)
Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Wii)
Paper Mario 3DS (3DS)
Yeah, some of these are side games and some are random games, but I haven't even included close to everything he is in (no Donkey Kong, no Yoshi games), my point is how long until Mario hits ultimate market saturation?
I mean, the guy is in an average of 8 games a year across platforms every year since 1983...
I am honestly just curious what you all think, I like the Mario games, and I am not trying to be a dick here.
So what you're saying is you have no problem with Mario games, you're just tired of seeing his mug?
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Count Dookkake said:
You'd be surprised. There are plenty of full-grown adults that have that same teenage mentality that cartoony, cute, and colorful games = "too kiddy for a grown-ass man like me."
Count Dookkake
Member
Lijik said:
Ha, I completely forgot that after looking at the wonderful pictorial arguments for "evolution."
Mik2121 said:Alright, let's get this out of the way. GAF, which star do you feel more comfortable with. Left or right?.
(I need to find more hobbies)
One looks like a cartoony representation of a star, and the other one looks like some kind of monument. So it really depends on context. If I was playing a game where I was completing tasks in order to collect stars, I'd prefer the one on the left. If I was in a game where I was wandering through a cemetery and there was a gravestone to said star, I would prefer the one on the right!
UncleSporky
Member
Holy crap, are these from that ancient OCRemix forum project to make a mature Mario game called I, Mario? In like, 2005?beast786 said:
http://specter24.proboards.com/index.cgi
Here's the old sketch forum
Go wild, GAF.
I am ashamed to say I helped kick it off, by drawing this:
From The Dust
Banned
Mik2121 said:
why? you can get paid to do this shit. hell, it's what I'm in school for
TheLastCandle
Member
Gino said:
I got a chortle out of this. Well done.
By what you present, it looks like what you want is a more "gritty," realistic visual style. Hopefully that's not all there is to it and if it is then, frankly, you should be embarrassed.
Maybe what you want is a more "mature" and "serious" atmosphere, mood, and storyline. That is less silly. Maybe you enjoy video games as escapist fantasy and cartoonish worlds are no longer where you'd like to escape to. Maybe you're one of those people that is strongly interested in games becoming a medium of expression, perhaps as opposed to "just" entertainment. I dunno.
Maybe what you want is a more "mature" and "serious" atmosphere, mood, and storyline. That is less silly. Maybe you enjoy video games as escapist fantasy and cartoonish worlds are no longer where you'd like to escape to. Maybe you're one of those people that is strongly interested in games becoming a medium of expression, perhaps as opposed to "just" entertainment. I dunno.
To compare:lunchwithyuzo said:
I believe Jak and Daxter sold over 3 million. The sequels I'm not sure about, but I do know they didn't sell as much as the first. In that sense, Uncharted is more successful as the second installment has probably done anywhere between 4.5-5 million by now. We can probably expect the third to be similar in success providing there isn't a huge disaster.
Infamous has only had one installment so far but it did sell more than the first Sly Cooper. We'll have to see how the second does, and if there are any plans for it to continue beyond that to make a decent comparison overall.
As for Resistance, I don't believe that's more successful than Ratchet and Clank overall. Unless it catches fire, it won't be either.
So, 2 out of 3 basically.
Always-honest
Banned
Mama Robotnik
Member
I was wondering if the OP had given up responding, but he's responded to a query asking him to confirm his age. That's something I suppose.
You're avoiding many, many, many questions in this thread. Could I ask you again, what do you think of the direction Sega have taken Sonic over the last ten years, and have you actually played Super Mario Galaxy 2?
Are you more likely to play Shadow the Hedgehog over a modern, critically-acclaimed Mario game?
beast786 said:
You're avoiding many, many, many questions in this thread. Could I ask you again, what do you think of the direction Sega have taken Sonic over the last ten years, and have you actually played Super Mario Galaxy 2?
Are you more likely to play Shadow the Hedgehog over a modern, critically-acclaimed Mario game?
Why why why why WHY do people want this to happen to Mario and other Nintendo franchises? Why?
Are some gamers so fucking insecure with their hobby that they can't bear to be seen playing something whimsical and full of colour? Is this what you think would "evolve" Mario? Not gameplay breakthroughs, not more outlandish level design, not wide-eyed fun that everyone from novices to the elite can enjoy, but to take Shy Guys and merge them with Helghast and the Koopalings with the Covenant Elite? Ohhh wow, that is so deep and emotionally tugging, truly the pinnacle of videogame narrative, and nothing else matters to you.
Oh my god, the OP makes me actually hurt inside - hurt and feel angry. If I wanted to say what I was really thinking I would probably be banned for it. You basically want to stick with Darksiders and enrich yourself with its AMAZING deep storytelling and character designs, when in fact all you are doing is playing the exact same games again as before under a brooding set of new clothing.
Are some gamers so fucking insecure with their hobby that they can't bear to be seen playing something whimsical and full of colour? Is this what you think would "evolve" Mario? Not gameplay breakthroughs, not more outlandish level design, not wide-eyed fun that everyone from novices to the elite can enjoy, but to take Shy Guys and merge them with Helghast and the Koopalings with the Covenant Elite? Ohhh wow, that is so deep and emotionally tugging, truly the pinnacle of videogame narrative, and nothing else matters to you.
Oh my god, the OP makes me actually hurt inside - hurt and feel angry. If I wanted to say what I was really thinking I would probably be banned for it. You basically want to stick with Darksiders and enrich yourself with its AMAZING deep storytelling and character designs, when in fact all you are doing is playing the exact same games again as before under a brooding set of new clothing.
Byakuya769
Member
Best trolling thread ever.
From The Dust
Banned
beast786 said:
considering your argue that realistic and gritty is mature, it doesn't matter what your physical age is. you are childish at heart. and in logic as well
I'm 19 by the way
UncleSporky
Member
Oh man, yeah, that art is from those old forums
http://specter24.proboards.com/inde...oldsketchesdoodlesmodels&thread=594&post=4451
http://specter24.proboards.com/inde...oldsketchesdoodlesmodels&thread=594&post=4451
Princess Skittles said:
Nintendo (if I'm allowed to name some others, Capcom and to a lesser extent Sega only because of the crap they went through post Dreamcast) has been exceptionally talented at this though. I'd hesitate to say that all of it was due to them being the new kids on the block, otherwise why would the characters still be so relevant now as we're nearing 25 - 30 years later?
Also, finding out what makes for a great iconic/timeless character and the "whys" behind how they work would be a great thread to show off why certain things can't just get hit with the "moar mature/grimdark" stick or the inverse depending on their design.
ShockingAlberto said:
You deserve so much more credit for this post than you got. :lol :lol :lol