With Wii-Cafe, is it time for Mario and classic Nintendo franchise to evolve?

Obsessed said:
This reminded me: Is GAF still working on that (Dudebro) project or did it just kind of fall apart after the initial hype faded away?
It's still being worked on, albeit very slowly. We could always use more help. PM Jocchan if you're interested.
 
cosmicblizzard said:
Man, you guys are brutal.

Nothing wrong with new IPs aimed at older audiences, but Nintendo will always and should always be the Pixar of gaming; stuff aimed at families that all ages can enjoy. Darker and edgier just wouldn't work with Mario without a major outcry from the fanbase. It might work for some franchises like Metroid and maybe Zelda (if that fucked up scene in TP is anything to go by), but others should be left alone.

We've already got a great publisher go the matoor road trying to get the tween demographic, they're Sega and they suck now.
 
I always wonder why it is important to people for Nintendo to "grow up" in their eyes, when it's not like Nintendo is the center of the video game industry anymore.

This isn't like 1992, where kids could rage at Nintendo being so "Disney" and censoring Mortal Kombat, 'cause it was the only way for many kids to see Sub Zero rip out a spine. We have all the brody games we could ever want on two other game consoles and PC.

Sometimes, I think it's an ambient insecurity where some guys feel Nintendo "speaks" for the image of video games, and that this somehow embarrasses them when another person hears they play games. "Oh no, are they thinkin' I'm playin' 'TENDO?"

The irony there is that if you want anyone to craft the public image of video games, it is Nintendo, since they seem to be the only ones who recognize that people other than 22 year old COD fans play games. They're also the only ones concerned with offering quality games for kids and people who are growing up into game players with a healthy range of taste in games. (You people should be thanking god for Pokemon, it is like the only hope left for a new generation to embrace JRPGs.)
 
AzureJericho said:
Now mind you, I'm not agreeing with all out F-Bomb, T&A, bullefests coming from them, but I do believe that Nintendo could stand to have some "Portal"-s, "Hawken"-s, and maybe their own stylish action game. Hell at one point, someone here suggested that DMC would be the kind of game that Nintendo would make if they had a desire to (or wanted to) make a "darker" core series. While I was in the camp that said "no", I do see where that poster was coming from in terms of marrying a extreme "gameplay first" design to an aesthetic and presentation meant to enhance the design and look fun as all fuck doing so.

I always looked at Ratchet & Clank and thought "Hey, that is a game Nintendo should have made." E for everyone gameplay with a T rating script (and IIRC that series is still rated E). That is how Nintendo should "mature" their games. not make them brown & boring.
 
sure it's been said already, but:

i liked all the companies in the o.p. better before they "evolved." sly cooper in particular was a million times more charming than infamous. infamous was probably good to them financially, so that's great! but nintendo has no such problem selling mario, so no, to hell with the idea of it devolving in the way you offer.
 
Obsessed said:
This reminded me: Is GAF still working on that (Dudebro) project or did it just kind of fall apart after the initial hype faded away?

We're still working on it slowly. The website gets updated weekly. Still need coders and other volunteers to speed things up though.
 
lolez2matt said:
And to think that all started with conker...

Don't compare Conker to the crap the OP is suggesting, at least Conker knows its place and I'm pretty sure it's not in the mature category.
 
I'm all for new IPs, but I don't think Nintendo needs to change Mario in any drastic way. They've done a great job reusing the character with new gameplay styles and in various genres, and I'm sure they can continue with that.

The company is capable of creating new IPs in order to help establish an identity (or brand) with new hardware. The "Wii ___" line of games is a great example of this. Whether people like it or not, it was a new, flagship IP created specifically for Wii and it has been a vessel for Nintendo's new direction, especially in terms of new control styles.

And while the "Wii ___" games aren't "mature" in the sense of grittiness, they're certainly "mature" in terms of bringing people OF ALL AGES together for fun social activities and showing that video games aren't only for basement-dwelling nerds.

I think Nintendo could afford to put more gritty experiences out there for their next system. Then again, that was pretty much what Disaster: Day of Crisis was (even though Monolith only became first-party after the game was produced) and that whole thing ended up as a mediocre package that didn't add much to the Wii's image or game library anyway.

Nintendo is about pushing ideas, not changing their public image. And, with new hardware comes new ideas. If the direction doesn't jive with you because of your changing ideals and opinions, then you just have to accept that the company isn't catering specifically to you. Again, I support new IPs and even more efforts at gritty games, but when it comes to established franchises I'm more an advocate of maintaining these franchises over time with new gameplay directions than with new aesthetics (with exceptions; I support the change in art style from OOT to Wind Waker, for example)
 
cooljeanius said:
They've published plenty new IP lately. Going by Wikipedia, here's a list of new IP they've published last generation:
Wii:
• Wii ____
• Endless Ocean
• Disaster: Day of Crisis...

I think the problem that gamers have isn't so much that the games aren't mature, but rather that they lack substance.

Now there have been a lot of characters Nintendo created, but like you said, they didn't make their way overseas. So I don't know Disaster Day of Crisis from a hole in the wall. But I look at the franchises like Excitebots, and Magnetica (great games mind you) but they lack substance.

#1 reason I want a new substantial character/IP from Nintendo is because they have the ability to make memorable characters & I want more. Of course the big 3 mascots are iconic. but even further down the list like various Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Starfox, Pikmin etc... They're so great at making these characters, that it's perplexing that they don't make more of them.
 
Kaijima said:
This isn't like 1992, where kids could rage at Nintendo being so "Disney" and censoring Mortal Kombat, 'cause it was the only way for many kids to see Sub Zero rip out a spine. We have all the brody games we could ever want on two other game consoles and PC.
That was really a watershed moment for Nintendo too. Due to that, they now have the least restrictive censorship policy among the 3 platform holders.
 
Mael said:
Don't compare Conker to the crap the OP is suggesting, at least Conker knows its place and I'm pretty sure it's not in the mature category.
To what I'm refering, conker was suposed to be another collectathon with hats and happy faces...
Since no one like the kiddy look, rare went to the hardcore way and since that worked, everyone thinks it will work with every game like op
 
OP, the closest you're going to get to a 'Mature Mario' is tis guy.

8357.Bowser.jpg
 
Mael said:
Don't compare Conker to the crap the OP is suggesting, at least Conker knows its place and I'm pretty sure it's not in the mature category.

If Conker were a movie, it would be PG-13. It was crude humor aimed at 13-17 year olds, and I loved every second of it. I bet if BFD was made today, they could get away with a T rating if they took out a few curses & the alcohol references.
 
WTF what the hell wrong with Mario lol I'm 25 and ill happy play Mario over any other game

Mario's always moving on other's just cant keep up to the same level of platformer
 
I understand what the OP is trying to convey in his post. However, the audience of Nintendo has not changed much, if at all. If the audience is maturing, there are plenty of alternative franchises and platforms to go to. Uncharted, Prince of Persia, or even Tomb Raider is a good mature alternative to Mario. There are some things that shouldn't be rebooted as it will tarnish its legacy.

It is possible to take a timeless classic and give it a mature twist (see Alice in Wonderland). Sure. However, it's a very big gamble. I don't see Nintendo changing it's formula since it still works.

I think it's good conversation and he shouldn't be taken to the wood shed for it.
 
beast786 said:
So you are 1/2 my age.

When you will be playing mario for another 19 years, you will understand.

I'm 32 and have been gaming as long as I can remember. I want Nintendo to keep doing what Nintendo does. I want Naughty Dog to keep doing what they're doing. They each provide a different type of product, and I want what each of them has to offer. I don't want Nintendo to try to become Naughty Dog or vice versa. I suppose the true mature way of looking at things is that all those type of games can co-exist quite happily. There's no reason to expect a studio to completely change what they do just because my tastes have changed. I don't care for JRPGs any more but I don't expect the next Tales game to be a platformer. I think truly Mature people understand this. People with the maturity/sensibility of a teenager expect everyone and everything to conform to the one thing that think is cool or awesome at the current moment.
 
I'm so glad I came back into this thread.

beast786 said:
If you read the OP, does nintendo need to add new IP because of Wii2 new hardware and price point.
None of this has anything to do with your OP.

Maybe when Im 38 I'll truly be able to read your OP.


jump_button said:
WTF what the hell wrong with Mario lol I'm 25 and ill happy play Mario over any other game
Yes but you are 25/38 his age. Just wait, you'll see.
 
lolez2matt said:
To what I'm refering, conker was suposed to be another collectathon with hats and happy faces...
Since no one like the kiddy look, rare went to the hardcore way and since that worked, everyone thinks it will work with every game like op

I know but the makers of conker really new that what they were doing was immature at heart, which goes 180° to what the OP suggests.

If Conker were a movie, it would be PG-13. It was crude humor aimed at 13-17 year olds, and I loved every second of it. I bet if BFD was made today, they could get away with a T rating if they took out a few curses & the alcohol references.

Basically.

Heck I play theses so called mature games since fucking Mortal Kombat and dear god am I tired of useless gore that's only there to hide how devoid the game is.
 
I think changing something like Mario or Zelda would be utterly stupid... Those franchises have a strong appeal in both visual and gameplay fields. But what about something like Star Fox?

Do people really care about the antropomorphic animal designs? I don't think so. It was all in the gameplay, which was completely unrelated to the character designs. I think that's the one Nintendo franchise which would only benefit from a completely new visual design. It'd also help distancing itself from the negatively received recent games.
 
Holy Order Sol said:
It's time people here stop taking you seriously.

Actually that time was at the very first post where he implied that mature meant a gritty, "realistic", gory FPS.


cooljeanius said:
It's still being worked on, albeit very slowly. We could always use more help. PM Jocchan if you're interested.

I would, but I have no useful talents that would help the process. Sorry.
 
NeonZ said:
I think changing something like Mario or Zelda would be utterly stupid... but what about a Star Fox?

Do people really care about the antropomorphic animal designs? I think that's the one Nintendo franchise which would only benefit from a completely new visual design.

Star fox doesn't need visual design, it only need to be a fucking shootem'up that let us blow shit up and be good about it.
We're playing games, not art styles.
 
Lijik said:
None of this has anything to do with your OP.

Maybe when Im 38 I'll truly be able to read your OP.

There are two questions in the OP

1. Is it time for Nintendo's franchises to evolve?
2. Would it make sense for Nintendo to create mature IP with Project Cafe?
 
NeonZ said:
I think changing something like Mario or Zelda would be utterly stupid... but what about a Star Fox?

Do people really care about the antropomorphic animal designs? I think that's the one Nintendo franchise which would only benefit from a completely new visual design.

More mature Starfox with love stories and space soap opera would be for the best:

20100405203241!Falco_cheers_Fox_up.png
 
jump_button said:
WTF what the hell wrong with Mario lol I'm 25 and ill happy play Mario over any other game

Mario's always moving on other's just cant keep up to the same level of platformer

dude you just don't understand play mario games for another 13 years and maybe you will.
 
The sad part is that there are a ton of gamers, like the OP, who have no fucking idea what the word "mature" means, and that cartoony games evolve into "realistic" ones.

Of course, most of them are 12 years old, but still.

Fun fact: Mature people have no problem playing great games like Super Mario Galaxy.
 
Hmmm yeah, the OP is right. Mario needs to mature.

mario_luigi_brotherly_dispute_lg.jpg


No, wait... that's not mature enough.

ngbbs4b644b29ea3ed.jpg


Getting there....

107603-Mario.jpg


Better....

mario_by_berkozturk.jpg


Good colour scheme but....No, that still has question mark blocks and other symbols of immaturity.

tumblr_lgpvy4XGTR1qa5c1eo1_500.jpg


Getting there....

mario_pose2.jpeg


Nah, too much colour and the proportions aren't realistic enough.

a61f3ae4.jpg


Oh yeah, almost!

SLR-Super-Mario-Bros-Mario-Luigi-Dark-Gritty-GTA-4-640x250.jpg


GTA engine? Oh yeah, we're getting there now!

Fenix-Mo.jpg


PERFECT!
 
Lijik said:
Maybe when Im 38 I'll truly be able to read your OP.
I'm 32 and hope to never be able to "truly read" that OP. And while I love me some Galaxy, give me another 2D Mario as well.

Thread backfires are awesome.
 
XiaNaphryz said:
I'm 32 and hope to never be able to "truly read" that OP. And while I love me some Galaxy, give me another 2D Mario as well.

Thread backfires are awesome.
So you are 32/38 his age.

When you will be reading beast786 threads for another 6 years, you will understand.
 
Lijik said:
I'm so glad I came back into this thread.


None of this has anything to do with your OP.

Maybe when Im 38 I'll truly be able to read your OP.

This is from the OP

"
Without loosing its Identity, is it possible for Nintendo franchise to evolve. Or at least start new IP with power of Wii2 to cater to people like me.
"

How about reading?
 
XiaNaphryz said:
I'm 32 and hope to never be able to "truly read" that OP. And while I love me some Galaxy, give me another 2D Mario as well.

Thread backfires are awesome.

You better have a way to freeze yourself because as the OP said it'll hit you in 6 years top
 
beast786 said:
This is from the OP

"
Without loosing its Identity, is it possible for Nintendo franchise to evolve. Or at least start new IP with power of Wii2 to cater to people like me.
"

How about reading?
I believe the issue here is that those two sentences actually don't mean what you think they do.
 
sajj316 said:
There are two questions in the OP

1. Is it time for Nintendo's franchises to evolve?
2. Would it make sense for Nintendo to create mature IP with Project Cafe?
Actually theres only one:
"Is it time for mature mario?"

I did find the bits you're talking about. I don't know why he didn't put those under the part he labelled Questions. Or maybe add question marks to them. Would probably be good idea to not misuse the words "mature" and "evolve" as well. Its a mess of an OP, and Beast dodges any questions in the thread that force him to make a point beyond defending his super shitty OP.
 
beast786 said:
This is from the OP

"
Without loosing its Identity, is it possible for Nintendo franchise to evolve. Or at least start new IP with power of Wii2 to cater to people like me.
"

How about reading?
The problem with this is that you're confusing concepts with evolution. Making a new IP isn't evolving from Mario...Mario evolves all by itself just fine. Also if you weren't referring to changing Mario, why even post those awful fanarts?
 
I see the point of the OP, it's not about 'maturing' Mario, but maturing the whole catalogue of games.

I think any healthy developer at the the size of Nintendo should dip into different area with a broad portfolio.
 
It would be odd to have a Mario game with graphics that sport a realistic feel, but I wouldn't mind seeing an incremental evolution in visual style. Visuals also include better facial expression and animation blending, things which games like L.A. Noire and Uncharted brought forth this generation.

On the gameplay side of things, the PS3 and 360 benefited from its extra computational power to render more enemies on screen, calculate complex physics, simulate discrete limb movements, create expansive and destructible environments. The online infrastructure allowed for experiments like MAG.

Now that Project Cafe will have enough resources to do those things, it would be interesting to see how first-party Nintendo games evolve in that sense. Will Mario and Zelda games ever obtain voiceovers, or is it part of their charm? Will we see a vast Hyrule field with infinite draw-distances and perhaps destructible elements? What about possible coop modes in both games?
 
Big One said:
The problem with this is that you're confusing concepts with evolution. Making a new IP isn't evolving from Mario...Mario evolves all by itself just fine. Also if you weren't referring to changing Mario, why even post those awful fanarts?

To be fair, they're not awful fanart. They're actually quite good, they're just horrible design docs
 
beast786 said:
This is from the OP

"
Without loosing its Identity, is it possible for Nintendo franchise to evolve. Or at least start new IP with power of Wii2 to cater to people like me.
"

How about reading?

Thing is most of their franchises do evolve. They just don't evolve into what you want.
 
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