cooljeanius
Member
It's still being worked on, albeit very slowly. We could always use more help. PM Jocchan if you're interested.Obsessed said:
With Wii-Cafe, is it time for Mario and classic Nintendo franchise to evolve?
- Thread starter beast786
- Start date
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I always wonder why it is important to people for Nintendo to "grow up" in their eyes, when it's not like Nintendo is the center of the video game industry anymore.
This isn't like 1992, where kids could rage at Nintendo being so "Disney" and censoring Mortal Kombat, 'cause it was the only way for many kids to see Sub Zero rip out a spine. We have all the brody games we could ever want on two other game consoles and PC.
Sometimes, I think it's an ambient insecurity where some guys feel Nintendo "speaks" for the image of video games, and that this somehow embarrasses them when another person hears they play games. "Oh no, are they thinkin' I'm playin' 'TENDO?"
The irony there is that if you want anyone to craft the public image of video games, it is Nintendo, since they seem to be the only ones who recognize that people other than 22 year old COD fans play games. They're also the only ones concerned with offering quality games for kids and people who are growing up into game players with a healthy range of taste in games. (You people should be thanking god for Pokemon, it is like the only hope left for a new generation to embrace JRPGs.)
This isn't like 1992, where kids could rage at Nintendo being so "Disney" and censoring Mortal Kombat, 'cause it was the only way for many kids to see Sub Zero rip out a spine. We have all the brody games we could ever want on two other game consoles and PC.
Sometimes, I think it's an ambient insecurity where some guys feel Nintendo "speaks" for the image of video games, and that this somehow embarrasses them when another person hears they play games. "Oh no, are they thinkin' I'm playin' 'TENDO?"
The irony there is that if you want anyone to craft the public image of video games, it is Nintendo, since they seem to be the only ones who recognize that people other than 22 year old COD fans play games. They're also the only ones concerned with offering quality games for kids and people who are growing up into game players with a healthy range of taste in games. (You people should be thanking god for Pokemon, it is like the only hope left for a new generation to embrace JRPGs.)
lolez2matt
Member
And to think that all started with conker...
Iwatas Magic Sports Coat
Member
AzureJericho said:
I always looked at Ratchet & Clank and thought "Hey, that is a game Nintendo should have made." E for everyone gameplay with a T rating script (and IIRC that series is still rated E). That is how Nintendo should "mature" their games. not make them brown & boring.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
sure it's been said already, but:
i liked all the companies in the o.p. better before they "evolved." sly cooper in particular was a million times more charming than infamous. infamous was probably good to them financially, so that's great! but nintendo has no such problem selling mario, so no, to hell with the idea of it devolving in the way you offer.
i liked all the companies in the o.p. better before they "evolved." sly cooper in particular was a million times more charming than infamous. infamous was probably good to them financially, so that's great! but nintendo has no such problem selling mario, so no, to hell with the idea of it devolving in the way you offer.
Crash Station
Member
Obsessed said:
We're still working on it slowly. The website gets updated weekly. Still need coders and other volunteers to speed things up though.
Iwatas Magic Sports Coat
Member
Fernando Rocker said:
I'm only 29, what is this
DeaconKnowledge
Member
In long form please.nincompoop said:
Davey Cakes
Member
I'm all for new IPs, but I don't think Nintendo needs to change Mario in any drastic way. They've done a great job reusing the character with new gameplay styles and in various genres, and I'm sure they can continue with that.
The company is capable of creating new IPs in order to help establish an identity (or brand) with new hardware. The "Wii ___" line of games is a great example of this. Whether people like it or not, it was a new, flagship IP created specifically for Wii and it has been a vessel for Nintendo's new direction, especially in terms of new control styles.
And while the "Wii ___" games aren't "mature" in the sense of grittiness, they're certainly "mature" in terms of bringing people OF ALL AGES together for fun social activities and showing that video games aren't only for basement-dwelling nerds.
I think Nintendo could afford to put more gritty experiences out there for their next system. Then again, that was pretty much what Disaster: Day of Crisis was (even though Monolith only became first-party after the game was produced) and that whole thing ended up as a mediocre package that didn't add much to the Wii's image or game library anyway.
Nintendo is about pushing ideas, not changing their public image. And, with new hardware comes new ideas. If the direction doesn't jive with you because of your changing ideals and opinions, then you just have to accept that the company isn't catering specifically to you. Again, I support new IPs and even more efforts at gritty games, but when it comes to established franchises I'm more an advocate of maintaining these franchises over time with new gameplay directions than with new aesthetics (with exceptions; I support the change in art style from OOT to Wind Waker, for example)
The company is capable of creating new IPs in order to help establish an identity (or brand) with new hardware. The "Wii ___" line of games is a great example of this. Whether people like it or not, it was a new, flagship IP created specifically for Wii and it has been a vessel for Nintendo's new direction, especially in terms of new control styles.
And while the "Wii ___" games aren't "mature" in the sense of grittiness, they're certainly "mature" in terms of bringing people OF ALL AGES together for fun social activities and showing that video games aren't only for basement-dwelling nerds.
I think Nintendo could afford to put more gritty experiences out there for their next system. Then again, that was pretty much what Disaster: Day of Crisis was (even though Monolith only became first-party after the game was produced) and that whole thing ended up as a mediocre package that didn't add much to the Wii's image or game library anyway.
Nintendo is about pushing ideas, not changing their public image. And, with new hardware comes new ideas. If the direction doesn't jive with you because of your changing ideals and opinions, then you just have to accept that the company isn't catering specifically to you. Again, I support new IPs and even more efforts at gritty games, but when it comes to established franchises I'm more an advocate of maintaining these franchises over time with new gameplay directions than with new aesthetics (with exceptions; I support the change in art style from OOT to Wind Waker, for example)
Iwatas Magic Sports Coat
Member
cooljeanius said:
I think the problem that gamers have isn't so much that the games aren't mature, but rather that they lack substance.
Now there have been a lot of characters Nintendo created, but like you said, they didn't make their way overseas. So I don't know Disaster Day of Crisis from a hole in the wall. But I look at the franchises like Excitebots, and Magnetica (great games mind you) but they lack substance.
#1 reason I want a new substantial character/IP from Nintendo is because they have the ability to make memorable characters & I want more. Of course the big 3 mascots are iconic. but even further down the list like various Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Starfox, Pikmin etc... They're so great at making these characters, that it's perplexing that they don't make more of them.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
That was really a watershed moment for Nintendo too. Due to that, they now have the least restrictive censorship policy among the 3 platform holders.Kaijima said:
lolez2matt
Member
To what I'm refering, conker was suposed to be another collectathon with hats and happy faces...Mael said:
Since no one like the kiddy look, rare went to the hardcore way and since that worked, everyone thinks it will work with every game like op
Iwatas Magic Sports Coat
Member
Mael said:
If Conker were a movie, it would be PG-13. It was crude humor aimed at 13-17 year olds, and I loved every second of it. I bet if BFD was made today, they could get away with a T rating if they took out a few curses & the alcohol references.
jump_button
Banned
WTF what the hell wrong with Mario lol I'm 25 and ill happy play Mario over any other game
Mario's always moving on other's just cant keep up to the same level of platformer
Mario's always moving on other's just cant keep up to the same level of platformer
I understand what the OP is trying to convey in his post. However, the audience of Nintendo has not changed much, if at all. If the audience is maturing, there are plenty of alternative franchises and platforms to go to. Uncharted, Prince of Persia, or even Tomb Raider is a good mature alternative to Mario. There are some things that shouldn't be rebooted as it will tarnish its legacy.
It is possible to take a timeless classic and give it a mature twist (see Alice in Wonderland). Sure. However, it's a very big gamble. I don't see Nintendo changing it's formula since it still works.
I think it's good conversation and he shouldn't be taken to the wood shed for it.
It is possible to take a timeless classic and give it a mature twist (see Alice in Wonderland). Sure. However, it's a very big gamble. I don't see Nintendo changing it's formula since it still works.
I think it's good conversation and he shouldn't be taken to the wood shed for it.
Shin Johnpv
Member
beast786 said:
I'm 32 and have been gaming as long as I can remember. I want Nintendo to keep doing what Nintendo does. I want Naughty Dog to keep doing what they're doing. They each provide a different type of product, and I want what each of them has to offer. I don't want Nintendo to try to become Naughty Dog or vice versa. I suppose the true mature way of looking at things is that all those type of games can co-exist quite happily. There's no reason to expect a studio to completely change what they do just because my tastes have changed. I don't care for JRPGs any more but I don't expect the next Tales game to be a platformer. I think truly Mature people understand this. People with the maturity/sensibility of a teenager expect everyone and everything to conform to the one thing that think is cool or awesome at the current moment.
Metroid-Squadron said:SEGA already did it and it was stupid.
Hudson too:
What are you talking about? Shadow the Hedgehog was a revelation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8oDVf3_Jnc
lolez2matt said:
I know but the makers of conker really new that what they were doing was immature at heart, which goes 180° to what the OP suggests.
Basically.
Heck I play theses so called mature games since fucking Mortal Kombat and dear god am I tired of useless gore that's only there to hide how devoid the game is.
NeonZ
Member
I think changing something like Mario or Zelda would be utterly stupid... Those franchises have a strong appeal in both visual and gameplay fields. But what about something like Star Fox?
Do people really care about the antropomorphic animal designs? I don't think so. It was all in the gameplay, which was completely unrelated to the character designs. I think that's the one Nintendo franchise which would only benefit from a completely new visual design. It'd also help distancing itself from the negatively received recent games.
Do people really care about the antropomorphic animal designs? I don't think so. It was all in the gameplay, which was completely unrelated to the character designs. I think that's the one Nintendo franchise which would only benefit from a completely new visual design. It'd also help distancing itself from the negatively received recent games.
CornBurrito
Member
Holy Order Sol said:
Actually that time was at the very first post where he implied that mature meant a gritty, "realistic", gory FPS.
cooljeanius said:
I would, but I have no useful talents that would help the process. Sorry.
Dr.Palutena
Member
jump_button said:
dude you just don't understand play mario games for another 13 years and maybe you will.
The sad part is that there are a ton of gamers, like the OP, who have no fucking idea what the word "mature" means, and that cartoony games evolve into "realistic" ones.
Of course, most of them are 12 years old, but still.
Fun fact: Mature people have no problem playing great games like Super Mario Galaxy.
Of course, most of them are 12 years old, but still.
Fun fact: Mature people have no problem playing great games like Super Mario Galaxy.
Hmmm yeah, the OP is right. Mario needs to mature.
No, wait... that's not mature enough.
Getting there....
Better....
Good colour scheme but....No, that still has question mark blocks and other symbols of immaturity.
Getting there....
Nah, too much colour and the proportions aren't realistic enough.
Oh yeah, almost!
GTA engine? Oh yeah, we're getting there now!
PERFECT!
No, wait... that's not mature enough.
Getting there....
Better....
Good colour scheme but....No, that still has question mark blocks and other symbols of immaturity.
Getting there....
Nah, too much colour and the proportions aren't realistic enough.
Oh yeah, almost!
GTA engine? Oh yeah, we're getting there now!
PERFECT!
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I'm 32 and hope to never be able to "truly read" that OP. And while I love me some Galaxy, give me another 2D Mario as well.Lijik said:
Thread backfires are awesome.
Crumpet Trumpet
Banned
I'd rather have them experiment with new IP than have them "evolve" their family friendly franchises into something that would only appeal to preteens.
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
I think this is the first thread I've seen on GAF that was in 100% universal agreement.XiaNaphryz said:
It's.. kind of unnerving.
Actually theres only one:sajj316 said:
"Is it time for mature mario?"
I did find the bits you're talking about. I don't know why he didn't put those under the part he labelled Questions. Or maybe add question marks to them. Would probably be good idea to not misuse the words "mature" and "evolve" as well. Its a mess of an OP, and Beast dodges any questions in the thread that force him to make a point beyond defending his super shitty OP.
Count Dookkake
Member
beast786 said:
Maybe in 3 years I will understand your POV.
It would be odd to have a Mario game with graphics that sport a realistic feel, but I wouldn't mind seeing an incremental evolution in visual style. Visuals also include better facial expression and animation blending, things which games like L.A. Noire and Uncharted brought forth this generation.
On the gameplay side of things, the PS3 and 360 benefited from its extra computational power to render more enemies on screen, calculate complex physics, simulate discrete limb movements, create expansive and destructible environments. The online infrastructure allowed for experiments like MAG.
Now that Project Cafe will have enough resources to do those things, it would be interesting to see how first-party Nintendo games evolve in that sense. Will Mario and Zelda games ever obtain voiceovers, or is it part of their charm? Will we see a vast Hyrule field with infinite draw-distances and perhaps destructible elements? What about possible coop modes in both games?
On the gameplay side of things, the PS3 and 360 benefited from its extra computational power to render more enemies on screen, calculate complex physics, simulate discrete limb movements, create expansive and destructible environments. The online infrastructure allowed for experiments like MAG.
Now that Project Cafe will have enough resources to do those things, it would be interesting to see how first-party Nintendo games evolve in that sense. Will Mario and Zelda games ever obtain voiceovers, or is it part of their charm? Will we see a vast Hyrule field with infinite draw-distances and perhaps destructible elements? What about possible coop modes in both games?