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WOAH!!! 44% of americans want to limit civil liberties of muslim americans.

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N

number386

Member
Nearly Half in U.S. Say Restrict Muslims

By WILLIAM KATES
ITHACA, N.Y. (AP) - Nearly half of all Americans believe the U.S. government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, according to a nationwide poll.

The survey conducted by Cornell University also found that Republicans and people who described themselves as highly religious were more apt to support curtailing Muslims' civil liberties than Democrats or people who are less religious.

Researchers also found that respondents who paid more attention to television news were more likely to fear terrorist attacks and support limiting the rights of Muslim Americans.

``It's sad news. It's disturbing news. But it's not unpredictable,'' said Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society. ``The nation is at war, even if it's not a traditional war. We just have to remain vigilant and continue to interface.''


The survey found 44 percent favored at least some restrictions on the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Forty-eight percent said liberties should not be restricted in any way.



The survey showed that 27 percent of respondents supported requiring all Muslim Americans to register where they lived with the federal government. Twenty-two percent favored racial profiling to identify potential terrorist threats. And 29 percent thought undercover agents should infiltrate Muslim civic and volunteer organizations to keep tabs on their activities and fund-raising.



Cornell student researchers questioned 715 people in the nationwide telephone poll conducted this fall. The margin of error was 3.6 percentage points.



James Shanahan, an associate professor of communications who helped organize the survey, said the results indicate ``the need for continued dialogue about issues of civil liberties'' in a time of war.



While researchers said they were not surprised by the overall level of support for curtailing civil liberties, they were startled by the correlation with religion and exposure to television news.



``We need to explore why these two very important channels of discourse may nurture fear rather than understanding,'' Shanahan said.



According to the survey, 37 percent believe a terrorist attack in the United States is still likely within the next 12 months. In a similar poll conducted by Cornell in November 2002, that number stood at 90 percent.
Click to expand...


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20041218/0943936069.htm&sc=1110

Seems republicans, and the highly religious are more in favor of the witch hunt.

WWJD?
 
F

fart

Savant
guys, let's talk about race relations and civil rights issues in today's america

no WAIT, I have a better idea! let's split hairs over a couple fucking bullets from the vietnam war, and bill o reilly's obvious and inevitable pervosexuality!

EXCELLENT.
 
karasu

karasu

Member
Quick, someone explain the problems of polls like this one. How they're unreliable and say next to nothing.
 
M

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
I can already predict the defense. "But more people said they shouldn't restrict civil liberties than people who did." "Polls don't mean anything anyway because they're unreliable and can be made to say anything." "Well, maybe they shouldn't blow up our buildings."

There. Now that that's been taken care of, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THIS.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
The survey showed that 27 percent of respondents supported requiring all Muslim Americans to register where they lived with the federal government.
Click to expand...
We've got a long, long way to go.
 
M

MC Safety

Member
Can we tack on a rider to the anti-Muslim bill (should one follow) that also allows for a, say, 12 percent across-the-board pay raise for congressmen and senators?
 
A

Anthropic

Member
It appears that what the Cornell people observed, and what they are reporting are two different things...

http://volokh.com/posts/1103389852.shtml

It turns out that the pollsters asked people to agree or disagree with four statements:

1) Muslim civic and volunteer organizations should be infiltrated by undercover law enforcement agents to keep watch on their activities and fundraising.
2) U.S. government agencies should profile citizens as potential threats based on being Muslim or having Middle Eastern heritage.
3) Mosques should be closely monitored and surveilled by U.S. law enforcement agencies.
4) All Muslim Americans should be required to register their whereabouts with the federal government.

For each of these statements, between 20 and 30 percent of the subjects agreed; most disagreed. Overall, the study reports, 29% of the subjects agreed with 2 or more of these statements, and 15% agreed with one of them. (Some of these numbers don't quite add up, I think, but see page 6 of the report for the figures.)

I don't want to be nitpicky, but am I right in thinking that a certain amount of spin is involved in how this poll is being reported? The pollsters made a judgment call that if you agree with any one of these statements, you are in favor of curtailing the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Thus, the pollsters are claiming, and advocacy groups such as CAIR are trumpeting, that 44% of Americans are in favor of curtailing the civil liberties of Muslims.
Click to expand...
 
F

fart

Savant
The pollsters made a judgment call that if you agree with any one of these statements, you are in favor of curtailing the civil liberties of Muslim Americans
Click to expand...
this is a fair judgement to the definition of the words involved.
 
B

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Disgusting and shameful, yes. Entirely unexpected? Hell no. I actually thought the % would be higher, to be honest. This quote makes me laugh though:

While researchers said they were not surprised by the overall level of support for curtailing civil liberties, they were startled by the correlation with religion and exposure to television news.
``We need to explore why these two very important channels of discourse may nurture fear rather than understanding,'' Shanahan said
Click to expand...

Hmmm, this correlation startled them? That's like being startled at the correlation between Lindsay Lohan's popularity and her breast size.
 
X

XS+

Banned
Were there another attack on our shores, I'd agree that we should limit the civil liberties of Muslim-Americans, as well as restrict access to our soil from those looking to migrate here from abroad. It's common sense. With that said, I don't see any reason to take such measures at this juncture.
 
T

thefit

Member
We have to let it play out till we get so dumn (again) we realise how wrong we are and start taking steps to repair the damage and try to never agaian head in such a social direction. Its again sociaty forgetting that we have been trough this already time and time agaian yet still generati0ons later we forget to remember the past and start the hate cycle again,
 
K

Kabuki Waq

Member
XS+ said:
Were there another attack on our shores, I'd agree that we should limit the civil liberties of Muslim-Americans, as well as restrict access to our soil from those looking to migrate here from abroad. It's common sense. With that said, I don't see any reason to take such measures at this juncture.
Click to expand...


wow

restrict civil liberites for Muslim Americans? Even if there was one more attack thats just wrong.
 
K

Kon Tiki

Banned
Kabuki Waq said:
wow

restrict civil liberites for Muslim Americans? Even if there was one more attack thats just wrong.
Click to expand...
Quiet you!

Not every American is the same, but every Muslim is the same.
 
X

XS+

Banned
Kabuki Waq said:
wow

restrict civil liberites for Muslim Americans? Even if there was one more attack thats just wrong.
Click to expand...

If there's another attack on the scale of 9/11, we should almost certainly refuse immigration from muslims -- principally arabs -- and stringently scrutinize those now living in our country. That would be the logical response to another attack on our shores.
 
A

Anthropic

Member
Mandark said:
I have no time for soi disant libertarians who defend stuff like this.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't think he's defending anything. I think what he's concerned about is the misrepresenation of the data that's being reported about this study. 44% answered positive to at least one of four questions. The useful numbers would be the number would be the percentage of people answer positive to each question, but of course, those numbers would be lower. The Cornell researchers are reporting the larger number because it sounds more scary.
 
A

Azih

Member
Anthropic each of those statements *is* a restriction on civil liberties of muslim americans. You agree that any one of those statements and you're advocating restrictions on civil liberties.

Plus the report was even handed as it specified that 'only' 27% of Americans want muslims to register where they live with the federal gvoernment. It distingusihed between people who want moderate restrictions and crazy Ann Coulter types.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
So it's not really curtailing civil liberties as long as there are a couple you haven't messed with?
 
I

impirius

Member
Anthropic said:
Well, I don't think he's defending anything. I think what he's concerned about is the misrepresenation of the data that's being reported about this study. 44% answered positive to at least one of four questions. The useful numbers would be the number would be the percentage of people answer positive to each question, but of course, those numbers would be lower. The Cornell researchers are reporting the larger number because it sounds more scary.
Click to expand...
Numbers are in the PDF.

Statement/Percent Agree

All Muslim Americans should be required to register their whereabouts with the federal government. 27%

Mosques should be closely monitored and surveilled by U.S. law enforcement agencies. 26%

U.S. government agencies should profile citizens as potential threats based on being Muslim or having Middle Eastern heritage. 22%

Muslim civic and volunteer organizations should be infiltrated by undercover law enforcement agents to keep watch on their activities and fundraising. 29%

---

Agreed with none of the statements: 48%
Agreed with one statement: 15%
Agreed with two or more statements: 29%
 
X

XS+

Banned
Society said:
Quiet you!

Not every American is the same, but every Muslim is the same.
Click to expand...

The one constant being, we're at war with people who, because of their faith, wish to see a whole lot of Americans dead. If another 9/11 occurred, you can bet that this government will not hesitate to come down hard on Muslims living in our country, especially Arabs. It's lamentable, sure, but would you rather be secure in knowing that Muslims are granted access to our country, thereby ensuring against their ability to attack us, or would you rather defend their "rights" at the expense of your loved ones? I'm anything but conservative, but I am an American.
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
If only those 44% knew that it isn't the Muslim population that's to be feared; it's the dereliction of our idiot-ass President.
 
X

XS+

Banned
Azih said:
Your generalisations are astounding XS.
Click to expand...

Like?

Who perpetrated 9/11? Who engineered the attacks in Madrid? What would your response be to another 9/11? Would our televisions once again be graced by moderates beseeching us to not lump all muslims in with the terrorists? I know that most Muslims aren't terrorists -- and I don't believe the respondents to these questions are of that mind, either. That's not the point. I'm not suggesting they deport Muslim-Americans. I am, however, saying that harsher scrutiny may be a necessary evil as the government combats terror.
 
karasu

karasu

Member
haha. It's an honest question though. I don't really know how these things works, but it always annoys me when they say X percentage of Americans say this, when I didn't give my input on jack squat. Seven hundred people isn't alot of folks, and I wonder what segments of the population were questioned. How varied were their backgrounds, etc etc.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
The interpretation seems fine to me. If people were polled as to how I think beer tastes and given the following options:

- like piss
- like shit
- like rotting flesh
- good

and 44% agreed with one of the first three, but not all three, I don't think there'd be any problem saying 44% didn't like beer.
 
C

COCKLES

being watched
Muslims want an islamic flag flying over the White House by 2010.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Thank god for Chick Tracts for warning me.
 
C

ChrisReid

Member
Mandark said:
We've got a long, long way to go.
Click to expand...

Well, just think of how far we've come. Sixty years ago we dragged them from their homes and just locked them all up in concentration camps in the desert.

karasu said:
It's a shame for sure. But how can 700 people represent all Americans?
Click to expand...

I only took the most basic statistic classes in college, but amazingly, those 700 people can predict the opinion of the entire nation with high accuracy (article says 3-4%). If they upped it to a thousand, the margin of error gets cut in half I believe. As long as certain guidelines are followed, the sampling is random and so on, it's like a mathematical formula. Once you get to about a thousand people, it doesn't matter if your population is one million or a quarter billion, you'll get fairly accurate results. It's like one of those puzzles where you take a penny and double your wealth every day and after a month you have a million dollars. Doesn't sound quite right at first, but if you work out the math, it ends up working.
 
I

impirius

Member
More disturbing results from the survey:

Statement / Percent agree 2004 / Percent agree 2002

Government should have greater power in monitoring Internet activities such as email and online transactions: 47% 41%

Law enforcement officials should be able to indefinitely detain suspected terrorists: 63% 57%

We need to outlaw some un-American actions, even if they're Constitutionally protected: 36% 40%

Government officials sometimes need to lie to the press about military operations: 48% 57%

In a time of crisis or war, the media should NOT cover anti-war protests: 33% 30%

In a time of crisis or war, the media should NOT report comments of individuals who criticize the government: 31% 31%
----
In a time of war or crisis, individuals should be allowed to stage public protests against the government: 60% 62%

In a time of war or crisis, individuals should be allowed to criticize publicly the government, or its policies: 63% 65%
 
S

Socreges

Banned
karasu said:
haha. It's an honest question though. I don't really know how these things works, but it always annoys me when they say X percentage of Americans say this, when I didn't give my input on jack squat. Seven hundred people isn't alot of folks, and I wonder what segments of the population were questioned. How varied were their backgrounds, etc etc.
Click to expand...
These polls deliberately try and make things proportionate. A sample of 700 people can be very accurate. Whether or not it's off by a few %, this becomes no less indicative.

XS said:
The one constant being, we're at war with people who, because of their faith, wish to see a whole lot of Americans dead.
Click to expand...
1) You're not at war
2) They don't want to ultimately see Americans dead - it is the means
3) Not because of their faith - because of their perception of US foreign policy
4) The "people" encapsulate a very small minority
 
T

The Shadow

Member
The survey conducted by Cornell University also found that Republicans and people who described themselves as highly religious were more apt to support curtailing Muslims' civil liberties than Democrats or people who are less religious.
Click to expand...

No shit...Behold my face of ultimate surprise and shock.

:|
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
I am, however, saying that harsher scrutiny may be a necessary evil as the government combats terror.
Click to expand...

How bout we hold our PRESIDENT to a higher standard of scrutiny? So far, he's managed to oversee two of the most egregious intelligence failures in American history.
 
X

XS+

Banned
Socreges said:
1) You're not at war
Click to expand...

3,000 dead Americans disagree with you.

2) They don't want to ultimately see Americans dead - it is the means
Click to expand...

3,000 dead Americans disagree with you

3) Not because of their faith - because of their perception of US foreign policy
Click to expand...

You have young men and women willing to martyr themselves in the name of allah. In Chechnya, 300 people, many of whom were children, were blown up by so-called muslims.
 
C

ChrisReid

Member
XS+ said:
3,000 dead Americans disagree with you
Click to expand...

No they don't, 'cause they're dead! :)

XS+ said:
You have young men and women willing to martyr themselves in the name of allah. In Chechnya, 300 people, many of whom were children, were blown up by so-called muslims.
Click to expand...

Whatever, you're still way off base. They're not muslims who are doing any of this. They're stupid kids who come from terrible places being coopted by influencial people. It so happens that the socioeconomic position of many places in the middle east makes this a great place to recruit impressionable people with little else to live for. Rich and fat America looks like great target, and thousands of poor youths are being brainwashed by these insane terrorist leaders to go out and commit these suicide bombings. Singlingout arab muslims is as absurd as locking up all the Japanese. The two or three countries with the largest muslim population aren't arab by the way (Iran, India & Indonesia I believe).
 
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