Support NeoGAF

[AcademicSaucer]

In what sense it's different from a naked person coming in New York or Paris from an amazonian tribe ? Every culture have a different standard for acceptable nudity.

If those people come to any western city without covering, they would be charged and arrested:

Just stop dude .

 

[TheCochese]

So is there a National Geographic rule on nudity?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

In what sense it's different from a naked person coming in New York or Paris from an amazonian tribe ? Every culture have a different standard for acceptable nudity.

If those people come to any western city without covering, they would be charged and arrested:

 

[KTS2448]

Im all for freedom to practice religion and its values. Your land, Your rules. I get that and support it too.

What I don't support is people not having the ability to leave said lands that have these values and rules. A lot of these women in SA don't have the ability to leave by their own choice and thats what makes this entire thing evil. This is religion obedience by force rather than choice.

 

[Parham]

It's ridiculous and inexcusable that women in Saudi Arabia are required to cover themselves.

 

[ClosingADoor]

In what sense it's different from a naked person coming in New York or Paris from an amazonian tribe ? Every culture have a different standard for acceptable nudity.

If those people come to any western city without covering, they would be charged and arrested:

Wow, you are seriously defending this? This can not be serious. Just... Stop.

These things are not comparable. Oh, and you can go topless in New York, so you didn't even pick a good example.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

I get what you are saying, but as others have pointed out that the person in OP isn't naked. And it's true that indecent exposure laws exists just because many consider nudity to be a taboo. But even in the US, However, in some states it is only illegal if it is accompanied by an intent to shock, arouse or offend other persons. And then there's also the punishment and how severe it is. Also how inequal women are treated, it's not just about men allowed to show chest while women aren't. There has been campaigning in the west to "free the nipple". It's not like everyone is ok with the current laws and how unequal they are between men and women.

If you are arguing from a sincere place, you shouldn't be defending the stuff in the OP but rather campaign for freeing the nipple in the US!

Also in Finland it's pretty much about the intent of nudity, sunbathing naked is okay for example. If you walk nude through the mall, it's likely that somebody calls the cops on you since it's quite uncommon to see. They will tell you to cover up and maybe fine you. They wont arrest you if you aren't causing disturbance otherwise. It's nothing like in the OP that people get on social media and call out for swift and harsh justice. Even for fucking in a puplic place you get fined at worst. There are some buffoons that can't take their eyes away from a breastfeeding woman and would even forbid that in a puplic place, so clearly everyone in the west doesn't see eye to eye on these issues.

Finland is a very liberal place, but most in most of our countries, you'll be arrested if you break the nudity norm. I don't think the solution is to make nudism legal (at least our definition about what is a naked body) but to recognize that nudity is not an universal concept.

I acknowledge that KSA is a sexist place with horrible laws against women, but i don't see in what sense getting arrested because you're showing you're nipple is more understandable than being arrested because you're showing you're thigh. Except if we agree that their is a universal law that define what is nudity and what is not nudity. And that the western criteria is supreme.

 

[seventynine]

I was gonna say earlier that next time she should moon the camera just to rub it in, but now I have a knot in my stomach. Utterly ridiculous.

It's Golden_Pigeon. To be very much expected at this point.

High time he be shown the door. He just derails the thread with this repugnant drivel.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Finland is a very liberal place, but most in most of our countries, you'll be arrested if you break the nudity norm. I don't think the solution is to make nudism legal (at least our definition about what is a naked body) but to recognize that nudity is not an universal concept.

I acknowledge that KSA is a sexist place with horrible laws against women, but i don't see in what sense getting arrested because you're showing you're nipple is more understandable than being arrested because you're showing you're thigh. Except if we agree that their is a universal law that define what is nudity and what is not nudity.

Then defend that people should be able to show their nipple and not Saudi Arabia for arresting people for showing a bit of skin.

No, it is not understandable.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Finland is a very liberal place, but most in most of our countries, you'll be arrested if you break the nudity norm. I don't think the solution is to make nudism legal (at least our definition about what is a naked body) but to recognize that nudity is not an universal concept.

I acknowledge that KSA is a sexist place with horrible laws against women, but i don't see in what sense getting arrested because you're showing you're nipple is more understandable than being arrested because you're showing you're thigh. Except if we agree that their is a universal law that define what is nudity and what is not nudity.

this is launching an investigation after the fact to hunt and arrest this woman for the crime of not being covered , stop with that straw man

High time he be shown the door. He just derails the thread with this repugnant drivel.

I feel like he is always derailing this kind of threads in defense of the monsters while ignoring the victims

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Then defend that people should be able to show their nipple and not Saudi Arabia for arresting people for showing a bit of skin.

No, it is not understandable.

Where i'm defending Saudi Arabia decision?

I'm finding this equally ridiculous as charging people because their showing a nipple. It's the ethnocentrism and the cultural blindspot that i'm pointing out here.

 

[HStallion]

Where i'm defending Saudi Arabia decision?

I'm finding this equally ridiculous as charging people because their showing a nipple. It's the ethnocentrism and the cultural blindspot that i'm pointing out here.

Then you probably shouldn't have used that terrible half naked tribesman in New York comparison as it totally makes you look foolish.

 

[Budi]

Finland is a very liberal place, but most in most of our countries, you'll be arrested if you break the nudity norm. I don't think the solution is to make nudism legal (at least our definition about what is a naked body) but to recognize that nudity is not an universal concept.

I acknowledge that KSA is a sexist place with horrible laws against women, but i don't see in what sense getting arrested because you're showing you're nipple is more understandable than being arrested because you're showing you're thigh. Except if we agree that their is a universal law that define what is nudity and what is not nudity.

Yeah I don't think people should be arrested for showing a nipple, man or a woman, breastfeeding or not. Unless someone is deliberately shoving their tits on someone's face. Or otherwise doing the exposure with sexual intents to people who want no part in it. Can't say how others feel about this or justify it.

 

[nynt9]

Finland is a very liberal place, but most in most of our countries, you'll be arrested if you break the nudity norm. I don't think the solution is to make nudism legal (at least our definition about what is a naked body) but to recognize that nudity is not an universal concept.

I acknowledge that KSA is a sexist place with horrible laws against women, but i don't see in what sense getting arrested because you're showing you're nipple is more understandable than being arrested because you're showing you're thigh. Except if we agree that their is a universal law that define what is nudity and what is not nudity. And that the western criteria is supreme.

Yet again an attempt at a derail. What does Finland matter here? What does indigenous tribes having different standards for nudity have to do here? The standard for western nudity laws is "do not show genitalia". And surely many here won't even agree with that. The standard for SA laws is "women cannot show any skin". Stop with this false equivalence.

Are you in favor of this arrest or against it? If you're against it, what point are you trying to make? Explain without comparing to other countries or cultures.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Where i'm defending Saudi Arabia decision?

I'm finding this equally ridiculous as charging people because their showing a nipple. It's the ethnocentrism and the cultural blindspot that i'm pointing out here.

You are shifting the topic to some laws that are barely enforced in Western countries - and even lying about it, since New York allows you topless - in an effort to make Saudi Arabia seem less bad. You are defending it and everyone can see it.

Saudi Arabia started a damn search for this woman. Stop comparing these things.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Then you probably shouldn't have used that terrible half naked tribesman in New York comparison as it totally makes you look foolish.

I don't care if it "make me look foolish", it's actually relevant. The foolishness is actually to believe that our cultural criteria is universal for reasons. Many people don't like to be confronted with the fact that we actually have arbitrary cultural standards.

 

[Pau]

Y'all realize it's legal for a woman to be topless in NYC right?

 

[ClosingADoor]

I don't care if it "make me look foolish", it's actually relevant. The foolishness is actually to believe that our cultural criteria is universal for reasons. Many people don't like to be confronted with the fact that we actually have arbitrary cultural standards.

It is not relevant. Saudi Arabia has outdated and disgusting laws. Don't try to defend this as if we should respect their culture about it. These are human rights violations.

 

[xxracerxx]

Y'all realize it's legal for a woman to be topless in NYC right?

Of course they don't.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

You are shifting the topic to some laws that are barely enforced in Western countries - and even lying about it, since New York allows you topless - in an effort to make Saudi Arabia seem less bad. You are defending it and everyone can see it.

Saudi Arabia started a damn search for this woman. Stop comparing these things.

Those amazonian tribes are going butt-naked, this is legal in NY ? I didn't know that if it's the case. I can tell you that in France, a woman cannot show her nipples.

 

[Salty Rice]

Fuck such Saudi Arabia bullshit.

How about you get out of the stone age and arrive in 2017 finally?

 

[Budi]

Yet again an attempt at a derail. What does Finland matter here? What does indigenous tribes having different standards for nudity have to do here? The standard for western nudity laws is "do not show genitalia". And surely many here won't even agree with that. The standard for SA laws is "women cannot show any skin". Stop with this false equivalence.

Are you in favor of this arrest or against it? If you're against it, what point are you trying to make? Explain without comparing to other countries or cultures.

They were replying to me and I was talking about indecent exposure and how it's handled in Finland.

 

[HStallion]

I don't care if it "make me look foolish", it's actually relevant. The foolishness is actually to believe that our cultural criteria is universal for reasons. Many people don't like to be confronted with the fact that we actually have arbitrary cultural standards.

So you don't care that more than a dozen posts came to the same conclusion and you were basically ridiculed for the inanity of your post? Well then I guess I don't much care for a fools opinion then.

I've also seen more nudity in parades in NYC than in that picture of the Tribesmen so your point is wrong as it is stupid.

 

[nynt9]

I don't care if it "make me look foolish", it's actually relevant. The foolishness is actually to believe that our cultural criteria is universal for reasons. Many people don't like to be confronted with the fact that we actually have arbitrary cultural standards.

What does it matter? Saudi Arabia has disgusting misogynistic laws. "Our cultural standards are arbitrary" bullshit has nothing to do with anything here.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Yet again an attempt at a derail. What does Finland matter here? What does indigenous tribes having different standards for nudity have to do here? The standard for western nudity laws is "do not show genitalia". And surely many here won't even agree with that. The standard for SA laws is "women cannot show any skin". Stop with this false equivalence.

Are you in favor of this arrest or against it? If you're against it, what point are you trying to make? Explain without comparing to other countries or cultures.

Are breasts "genitalia" ? Is ass "genitalia"?

We have a very precise and arbitrary definition of nudity. And we arrest everybody who don't respect it. In what sense it's justifiable ?

 

[Pomerlaw]

Retarded country.

 

[Gallbaro]

Unfortunately I do not think a democratized KSA would be any better, pretty sure most Western governments think it would get worse.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Those amazonian tribes are going butt-naked, this is legal in NY ? I didn't know that if it's the case. I can tell you that in France, a woman cannot show her nipples.

I am going to guarantee you that if a tribe of Amazonians show up in New York or Paris they will not be arrested for the way they dress.

Until this has actually happened, don't make comparisons like that.

You are trying to excuse this terrible behavior as if they are just cultural differences we should respect. For some things there are lines and we shouldn't respect another culture when they cross it. This is one of those cases.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

What does it matter? Saudi Arabia has disgusting misogynistic laws. "Our cultural standards are arbitrary" bullshit has nothing to do with anything here.

I said in every post here that KSA have horrific sexists laws.

 

[Kuga]

I don't care if it "make me look foolish", it's actually relevant. The foolishness is actually to believe that our cultural criteria is universal for reasons. Many people don't like to be confronted with the fact that we actually have arbitrary cultural standards.

Some aspects of culture are not worth respecting or tolerating. Just because a barbaric practice like Saudi Arabia's treatment of women is part of their culture doesn't make it acceptable.

 

[nynt9]

Are breasts "genitalia" ? Is ass "genitalia"?

We have a very precise and arbitrary definition of nudity. And we arrest everybody who don't respect it. In what sense it's justifiable ?

In most states and western countries, nudity is legal. Only intent to shock is illegal. You won't be arrested for it. So you're wrong. And it doesn't matter. This isn't nudity. It's justifiable in the sense that it's not a law specifically designed to oppress women inspired by centuries-old outdated bullshit.

Seriously, what's your point? If you're against this arrest, you're just derailing for no reason. If you're for it, then at least own up to it.

 

[xxracerxx]

Those amazonian tribes are going butt-naked, this is legal in NY ? I didn't know that if it's the case. I can tell you that in France, a woman cannot show her nipples.

They can near a beach.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I don't care if it "make me look foolish", it's actually relevant. The foolishness is actually to believe that our cultural criteria is universal for reasons. Many people don't like to be confronted with the fact that we actually have arbitrary cultural standards.

The right to self-determination - yes, surprising as you might find it - is universal for men and women. Or should be, if you're not busy making excuses for the repression of women.

 

[Budi]

Retarded country.

This isn't what you want to say. The word retard refers to intellectual disabilities in a degrading manner. People with disabilities have nothing to do with the case in the OP.

 

[HStallion]

In case anyone was wondering about nudity in New York City like some people in this thread:

200 fully nude models will be converging in Times Square next month

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Some aspects of culture are not worth respecting or tolerating. Just because a barbaric practice like Saudi Arabia's treatment of women is part of their culture doesn't make it acceptable.

In what sense "they have horrific sexist laws against women" sound like an acceptance of their laws ?

I don't think that somebody is barbaric because in his culture, showing legs is inappropriate. It's totally arbitrary.

 

[Pau]

Those amazonian tribes are going butt-naked, this is legal in NY ? I didn't know that if it's the case. I can tell you that in France, a woman cannot show her nipples.

It's not common for obvious reasons but you can find women wearing less than in the picture you posted any day in Times Square.

Any law that requires women to cover up more than men is stupid. But one that limits women's choices significantly more (especially in comparison to men) is going to be worse than one that doesn't limit them as much.

 

[nynt9]

In what sense "they have horrific sexist laws against women" sound like an acceptance of their laws ?

I don't think that somebody is barbaric because in his culture, showing legs is inappropriate. It's totally arbitrary.

We're not saying they're barbaric because showing legs in SA is inappropriate. We're saying it because of their brutal, misogynistic, homophobic culture. This is the symptom, not the cause.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

In what sense "they have horrific sexist laws against women" sound like an acceptance of their laws ?

I don't think that somebody is barbaric because in his culture, showing legs is inappropriate. It's totally arbitrary.

It's barbaric because it's imposing sexist rules on women for no reason other than mythology. It's literally antiquated thinking.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

The right to self-determination - yes, surprising as you might find it - is universal for men and women. Or should be, if you're not busy making excuses for the repression of women.

So nobody should outraged if somebody walked naked without any intent to shock ? Is it not "self-determination"?

 

[Clerical Error]

Are breasts "genitalia" ? Is ass "genitalia"?

No. They are objectively not genitalia. If you are legitimately confused on this point you do not have sufficient knowledge to understand this topic or to meaningfully comment.

 

[mlclmtckr]

It's barbaric because it's imposing sexist rules on women for no reason other than mythology. It's literally antiquated thinking.

No it isn't. It isn't religion somehow magically making people into hardcore misogynists. If that were true the same thing would happen in every religious country.

Subjugation of women is the goal, religion is the tool. If you try to argue against the religion itself you play right into their hands.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

So nobody should outraged if somebody walked naked without any intent to shock ? Is it not "self-determination"?

She's not naked. Stop trying to change the subject.

 

[Budi]

So nobody should outraged if somebody walked naked without any intent to shock ? Is it not "self-determination"?

Outraged no, baffled, bothered or whatever sure. But it's not something to get outraged over. Nobody is being hurt.

 

[xxracerxx]

So nobody should outraged if somebody walked naked without any intent to shock ? Is it not "self-determination"?

Outraged? Fuck no.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

No. They are objectively not genitalia. If you are legitimately confused on this point you do not have sufficient knowledge to understand this topic or to meaningfully comment.

Of course i know that. I'm saying that because nynt9 pretended that in the West, only genitalia was forbidden to be exposed in public. It's obviously not true in most western countries.

 

[HStallion]

Of course i know that. I'm saying that because nynt9 pretended that in the West, only genitalia was forbidden to expose in public. It's obviously not true in most western countries.

Please continue to tell us how nudity in NYC would result in something similar to what this woman faces in SA. Your knowledge of the world at large seems suspect at best as does your entire presence in this thread.

 

[Rival]

I hope the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice gets this monster off the streets quickly. Seriously sickening that this is in fact a big news story.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

She's not naked. Stop trying to change the subject.

For somebody for an amazonian tribe, going ass naked is not being naked. Thus my comparison. There is an universal standard for naked and it should be defined by the western criteria ?

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Please continue to tell us how nudity in NYC would result in something similar to what this woman faces in SA. Your knowledge of the world at large seems suspect at best as does your entire presence in this thread.

Where did i said such a thing ? Nobody is capable to actually confront what i'm actually saying rather than jumping on the "ban this KSA defensor wagon".

I never said that KSA was ok, i never supported the arrest. I'm pointing out that we don't accept other people criteria about nudity in our countries, but yet want to impose our own in others countries. So, or we should accept EVERY cultural norm about garment in our countries, or we shouldn't criticize others countries when they don't.