• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Women in the US Marine Corps integrated task force

Status
Not open for further replies.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/feb/21/marine-corps-integrated-task-force-women/

A diverse group of about 100 female Marines have volunteered for a combat training and research experiment unlike any other.

In October, they checked into the Marine Corps’ Ground Combat Element Integrated Task Force — an unprecedented project designed to help commanders decide whether to open all remaining combat jobs to women.

These potential history-makers joined mixed-gender platoons of infantry, artillery and armored vehicles at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina. Then last week, they followed the advance party out to Twentynine Palms for what is expected to be three intense months of combat-skills testing in the Mojave Desert. After that, some head to Camp Pendleton and the mountain warfare center in Bridgeport for further evaluations.

Before they signed up for the task force, the servicewomen were forging military careers in combat support positions. They worked as computer desk jockeys, convoy operators and the like, in occupations they likely will return to when the project disbands this summer.

Even if the Corps decides to permanently open ground-combat jobs to women by year’s end, few of the project volunteers would choose to start over in a new Marine occupation and abandon career momentum. There is also the stress of what many predict will be a rough transition if the Corps and the nation’s other armed forces insert women into formerly all-male combat units.

Who are these female warriors, and why did they sign up for the unusual undertaking?

Here is a look at four women in the task force we intend to follow through their months of training:

How they handle the pressure is beyond me. It's impressive seeing how they overcome the physical requirements and deal with the initial reluctance by the men.
 
I don't know why, but this really made me chuckle.

“I just really like things that go boom. July 4th is one of my favorite holidays. I like Chinese New Year. I know that’s completely different, but making things go boom makes me happy. It sounded like a really interesting job that you wouldn’t have an opportunity to do anywhere else,”

Vuong was a high school student when terrorists attacked the United States on Sept. 11, 2001. Back then, “I really wanted to go out and choke somebody,” she recalled.

“It’s not going to be sunshine and roses all the time. But I feel pretty satisfied when I hear the boom go off. You’ve just got to take it as it comes,” Vuong said.

She can fight for my country any fucking day of the week.
 
I really do wish for the best for these women and their pursuit for jobs in combat. Some people out there get mad thirsty with women around and it can definitely be a career-ender if it gets out of hand. Hope for the best for them regardless, though.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Genuinely interested how it will work out.

If they can pass the same standards the men have the pass... I guess the only thing stopping them from combat roles is just the general "Women will be a distraction for men" excuse.

It's a shitty excuse, but it is grounded in some reality.
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Hurry up and allow this so one of them can give birth on the battlefield and the legend of Big Boss can become reality.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Hurry up and allow this so one of them can give birth on the battlefield and the legend of Big Boss can become reality.

This can already happen with all of the countries that already let women fight.

And "support roles" are a bit of misnomer since they saw combat in Iraq, they just didn't officially see combat.
 

Darker

Banned
Can't say I agree with this. It seems unnatural.

But that seems to be the way the wind is blowing these days. After all, we have female singers, even female motorists.
 
As long as they can meet the same, exact standards as men, I don't see why there'd be any issue. They should absolutely not lower the standards to let them pass though
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
This can already happen with all of the countries that already let women fight.

And "support roles" are a bit of misnomer since they saw combat in Iraq, they just didn't officially see combat.

But then it wouldn't be canon (._. )
 
Mad respect for these women. I'm a woman in the British Royal Navy and I've struggled at times with our meagre physical requirements (working on my gainz atm). These women must be fit as hell.

Personally I don't mind there being different roles for men and women in the military (it's just a fact that our bodies are different and men are physically stronger). But if they can keep up with the guys physically, then fuck yeah, have at it.
 
Can't say I agree with this. It seems unnatural.

But that seems to be the way the wind is blowing these days. After all, we have female singers, even female motorists.

Are you serious?

What's so 'unnatural' about female soldiers? Or singers and motorists (what?)?


Or perhaps my humour radar is puzzled from how low your post is flying :/
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Are you serious?

What's so 'unnatural' about female soldiers? Or singers and motorists (what?)?


Or perhaps my humour radar is puzzled from how low your post is flying :/

Really, you think that was serious even after singers and motorists? Time for bed, Blargonaut.
 

Darker

Banned
Damn, I'm slipping

I... I need to make some calibrations, ly dow 😥

dxpxLw7.jpg
 

Shmuppers

Member
I have no doubt in my mind that a woman is capable of preforming her duty in a combat role.

However, I've had this conversation with an ex-paratrooper (my rifle team coach) and an ex-marine (English teacher), and my view pretty much aligns with theirs. Basically, their concern was that a male's natural instinct to protect females could potentially compromise a mission, or lead to unnecessary deaths. I'm interested at what your guy's responses to that concern might be.

As a disclaimer, even given my concerns, I still an unopposed to a woman wanting to be integrated into a combat role.
 
As long as they can meet the same, exact standards as men, I don't see why there'd be any issue. They should absolutely not lower the standards to let them pass though

That's the thing though, unless the military changed their standards since I got out, the female standards were different from their male counterparts when it came time to do the biannual physical fitness test.
 

Darker

Banned
I have no doubt in my mind that a woman is capable of preforming her duty in a combat role.

However, I've had this conversation with an ex-paratrooper (my rifle team coach) and an ex-marine (English teacher), and my view pretty much aligns with theirs. Basically, their concern was that a male's natural instinct to protect females could potentially compromise a mission, or lead to unnecessary deaths. I'm interested at what your guy's responses to that concern might be.

As a disclaimer, even given my concerns, I still an unopposed to a woman wanting to be integrated into a combat role.

Then God help you all.

A US Army consisting of women who have engineered an entire career path solely because they 'want to choke somebody' and men who will forget all of their expensive training to throw themselves in front of a helpless femme in a spectacular display of subaltern patriarchy with vague hopes of some sort of thank you sex after he jizzes freedom over all them dessert peoples he's come to democratize.
 

Shmuppers

Member
Is that really a male's natural instinct though? I don't think it is.

Eh, I mean.

Thought experiment: Let's assume, on two separate occasions, that you witness someone punching someone else. Let's say the person punching is a man. In the first instance, the person being punched is woman. In the second instance, it's a guy getting hit. Who would you realistically come over to help?

"Natural" was a poor word to use.
 
Well since STEM fields are making things difficult, might as well give them a chance in battle.
One of them will definitely get a movie made on her, like say the first female sniper. We can call it American Sniper-ette

EDIT:

Natural instinct to protect females? BAHAHAHA! Tell that to Chris Brown why don't you...
It should be an instinct to protect the weak though regardless of gender or class...
I see a rich white 30 year old getting beat up, I would help him.

However, you can bet there would be some gung-ho military dude bro's who would take risks to impress the ladies and some of those ladies would actively exploit the extra attention. Of course those types never last very long anyway and oh look... court martial!
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
I have no doubt in my mind that a woman is capable of preforming her duty in a combat role.

However, I've had this conversation with an ex-paratrooper (my rifle team coach) and an ex-marine (English teacher), and my view pretty much aligns with theirs. Basically, their concern was that a male's natural instinct to protect females could potentially compromise a mission, or lead to unnecessary deaths. I'm interested at what your guy's responses to that concern might be.

As a disclaimer, even given my concerns, I still an unopposed to a woman wanting to be integrated into a combat role.

As opposed to not protecting their male comrades?...

That would not be my concern with women serving in integrated combat units, in fact there is only one BIG concern I can think of. I'm interested to see how these trials turn out but the reality of war is long stretches of boredom and tedium, throwing females into the mix could be...problematic. I've always been interested in examples of other countries that allow women to serve in combat roles, due they actually serve in integrated units? How does that work?
 
Hypothetical: Would drugs that inhibit libido and sex drive help curb the "Guy and Gal soldier sitting bored so they had sex" problem?

You know how it goes, Gal gets pregnant, Guy becomes ghost, Gal gives birth to greatest soldier of all time who goes on to build a utopia for soldier's and is eventually killed by one of his own cloned sons but then it turns out everything was the machinations of an AI all along....
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
Hypothetical: Would drugs that inhibit libido and sex drive help curb the "Guy and Gal soldier sitting bored so they had sex" problem?

You know how it goes, Gal gets pregnant, Guy becomes ghost, Gal gives birth to greatest soldier of all time who goes on to build a utopia for soldier's and is eventually killed by one of his own cloned sons but then it turns out everything was the machinations of an AI all along....

^Why would we want to prevent that.

: )
 

aliengmr

Member
Eh, I mean.

Thought experiment: Let's assume, on two separate occasions, that you witness someone punching someone else. Let's say the person punching is a man. In the first instance, the person being punched is woman. In the second instance, it's a guy getting hit. Who would you realistically come over to help?

"Natural" was a poor word to use.

The entire context is different though. In combat men want want to protect each other just as much.

03's are a boys club through and through, it will be an adjustment for a whole host of reasons, but the the "protectiveness" issue ranks pretty low in my opinion.

As far as physical abilities, women need to have a set of standards that is suited to their abilities as it relates to the duties, not just the arbitrary standards of men. Its both unfair and unrealistic to hold women to the Male standard and instead needs a more nuanced approach.

Women are more than capable, but "integration" can't be women joining the boy's club, but the Marine combat battalions. For this to happen, ground up changes need to happen.
 

Geist-

Member
Eh, I mean.

Thought experiment: Let's assume, on two separate occasions, that you witness someone punching someone else. Let's say the person punching is a man. In the first instance, the person being punched is woman. In the second instance, it's a guy getting hit. Who would you realistically come over to help?

"Natural" was a poor word to use.

Honestly, I have the urge to step in and tell the fuckers to stop hitting people.
 

Xe4

Banned
As a former Marine myself, i'm all for it as long as they don't make it easier ...everyone gotta carry the same weight ...

Not a marine, but I pretty much agree. Carry the same weight, pass the same tests, and deal with the same shit, and you can absolutely be in combat.
 

Coins

Banned
Then God help you all.

A US Army consisting of women who have engineered an entire career path solely because they 'want to choke somebody' and men who will forget all of their expensive training to throw themselves in front of a helpless femme in a spectacular display of subaltern patriarchy with vague hopes of some sort of thank you sex after he jizzes freedom over all them dessert peoples he's come to democratize.

Lol.
 

Shmuppers

Member
The entire context is different though. In combat men want want to protect each other just as much.

03's are a boys club through and through, it will be an adjustment for a whole host of reasons, but the the "protectiveness" issue ranks pretty low in my opinion.

As far as physical abilities, women need to have a set of standards that is suited to their abilities as it relates to the duties, not just the arbitrary standards of men. Its both unfair and unrealistic to hold women to the Male standard and instead needs a more nuanced approach.

Women are more than capable, but "integration" can't be women joining the boy's club, but the Marine combat battalions. For this to happen, ground up changes need to happen.

Yup. Can't agree more.
 

MutFox

Banned
As long as all tests are equal and not dumbed down, no issues.
Peoples lives are on the line, everyone has to be on the same page while in combat.
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
The entire context is different though. In combat men want want to protect each other just as much.

03's are a boys club through and through, it will be an adjustment for a whole host of reasons, but the the "protectiveness" issue ranks pretty low in my opinion.

As far as physical abilities, women need to have a set of standards that is suited to their abilities as it relates to the duties, not just the arbitrary standards of men. Its both unfair and unrealistic to hold women to the Male standard and instead needs a more nuanced approach.

Women are more than capable, but "integration" can't be women joining the boy's club, but the Marine combat battalions. For this to happen, ground up changes need to happen.


Combat is unfair. If you're in a combat unit standards need to be uniform across the board. Everyone has to meet the standard, any deviation from that is irresponsible.
 

aliengmr

Member
Combat is unfair. If you're in a combat unit standards need to be uniform across the board. Everyone has to meet the standard, any deviation from that is irresponsible.

You're taking what I am saying to mean I think it should be easier, that's not the case. My opinion is that if you are going to integrate women into combat units, you have to train as an integrated unit and not as a male unit. The job is what matters here and yes, both men and women need to be able to do that job. Saying that in order for women to join in combat roles they must be "male" will not foster cohesiveness.
 
How did you not know this?

I don't know. I'm Canadian, for one. I also don't know much about military roles, maybe they are the same here too.

Edit: Yeah it seems it's different

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/news/article.page?doc=women-in-the-canadian-armed-forces/hie8w7rm

Women can enrol in any CAF occupation, which includes operational trades, and serve in any environment. In all trades, CAF men and women are selected for training, promotions, postings and all career opportunities in exactly the same way - based on rank, qualifications and merit.

All military occupations were open to women in 1989, with the exception of submarine service, which opened in 2000.

So I guess it's just my ignorance when it comes to US military policies. It's just shocking to hear that there would still be jobs locked away based on gender in 2015. What's the reasoning?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom