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[Odysseus]

Hilary Goldstein of IGN Xbox has provided a behind-the-curtains glimpse of life as an editor for a major site trying to cover Halo 2. It is a fairly interesting article, in my opinion.

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/546/546425p1.html

 

[BuddyC]

That was a really good read. Two bits that really caught my eye:

Originally Bungie was going to show some sort of multiplayer trailer at Microsoft's pre-E3 press conference Monday. Instead, the plan changed at the last minute and a much longer demo became a reality. I learned of this about three hours before the press conference.

As you'll read in my new multiplayer impressions going up tonight, Halo 2 has begun to lose a slight bit of its awe. Look, I know this is going to be a great game. That's obvious. It's gonna rock. But it's about time we just got our damn hands on single-player. The secretive nature, the withholding, it isn't inspiring intrigue in editors. I think a lot of folks are gonna go into their reviews now looking for reasons to slam Halo 2.

+15 to Hil

 

[Odysseus]

The big online sites have all played on the up-and-up, without breaking Halo 2 embargoes, but some European and Japanese sites haven't followed suit (such is the norm for the industry). So things we can't talk about are already very open and out there on the Internet for people to find. That's pretty frustrating.

And then comes the consumer shows. Now that E3 is over, Halo 2 is making the rounds across the world. While we are always forbidden from filming off-screen or getting direct feed, several fan sites have managed to get some rather long direct-feed of Halo 2 multiplayer. With god-awful compression, these movies look like ass. But you know what, they look a hell of a lot better than the movies we don't have on our site.

+16

 

[human5892]

Jeez, that all sounds really frustrating...

 

[Mr_Furious]

Meh

 

[MarkMacD]

To be fair, about 1/500,000th the amount of people who would see a Halo 2 movie on a major site like IGN will ever find and watch one from a fansite. Online games have beta tests they withhold press coverage from all the time.

Yes, Bungie is being super-ultra-secretive about single player, but they are doing it, for better or for worse, for the fans. Restricting access to the degree they are certainly isn't what the marketing and PR people want I can tell you that.

As for "wanting to slam" a game for missing out on coverage, that's what separates professionals from the hacks.

note: I'm not just saying this cause we're covering the single player game next issue in EGM

 

[The Faceless Master]

Despite what some folks may think, money never exchanges hands for these things. No review scores are promised. None of that. Basically it's a promise of placement on our front pages (top story of course). It's really just a matter of both sides (editors and publishers) wanting to get something done.

see! money never changes hands for these things!

 

[lordmrw]

I'm afraid that that's going to fall on deaf ears, considering the conspiracy theorists on the internet.

 

[Odysseus]

note: I'm not just saying this cause we're covering the single player game next issue in EGM

Ahem... when can I expect this magazine in my mailbox? I should note that I have been receiving my magazines a week or two later than most on the internet... I should complain... but I'm too lazy.

 

[FortNinety]

One of the best written pieces ever at IGN.

 

[The Faceless Master]

After our playtime was over, we headed over to the Casamassina's house for a little BBQ. That's where we learned Mary Jane was actually Matt's butler.

lol

 

[chespace]

i've been bitching about bungie's tyranny over the press re: Halo 2 for months and months now. mark should know this. reading hil's little soapbox, i could certainly relate. in fact, even on the way up to bungie two days ago, i was like completely fed up with the way journos have been stonewalled when it comes to anything related to single-player.

but then that all changed when i got to bungie. sure, playing single-player halo 2 really helped, but beyond that, it was seeing just how frantic it was over there (they literally have around 23 or 22 days to go before submission), how dedicated and intense the staff was, and then playing halo 2 single-player and realizing that showing off a game before it's polished (i.e., shitty framerates, texture pop-up everywhere, cutscenes with no sound, etc.) isn't really good for ANYONE. especially halo fans. why? well first there's inevitable disappointment when you see something like halo 2 run at 10fps -- even if you know that by the time the game goes gold, everything will be buttah. second of all, spoilers. tons of spoilers everywhere. that's how significant the single-player is this time around. the stuff we've seen... i can honestly say that bungie has truly come to an understanding of the word 'epic.'

sure, it's frustrating for the press, but ultimately, it's not going to hurt the game. AT ALL. it doesn't matter if ol' Hilly goes into the game feeling like a sack of shit. he will be pwned. and it certainly won't matter for the millions of people who'll buy and play halo 2 on 11/9 what kind of unprofessional grudge the enthusiast print or online publications have against bungie. because they'll be pwned. justin timberlake will be pwned. so will his girlfriend. for months and months to come.

i know the game will be that good.

 

[Mr_Furious]

see! money never changes hands for these things!

Uh, ya, like she (or any other site/pub) would ever admit to it. That is unless you were being sarcastic.

 

[Odysseus]

i've been bitching about bungie's tyranny over the press re: Halo 2 for months and months now. mark should know this. reading hil's little soapbox, i could certainly relate. in fact, even on the way up to bungie two days ago, i was like completely fed up with the way journos have been stonewalled when it comes to anything related to single-player.

but then that all changed when i got to bungie. sure, playing single-player halo 2 really helped, but beyond that, it was seeing just how frantic it was over there (they literally have around 23 or 22 days to go before submission), how dedicated and intense the staff was, and then playing halo 2 single-player and realizing that showing off a game before it's polished (i.e., shitty framerates, texture pop-up everywhere, cutscenes with no sound, etc.) isn't really good for ANYONE. especially halo fans. why? well first there's inevitable disappointment when you see something like halo 2 run at 10fps -- even if you know that by the time the game goes gold, everything will be buttah. second of all, spoilers. tons of spoilers everywhere. that's how significant the single-player is this time around. the stuff we've seen... i can honestly say that bungie has truly come to an understanding of the word 'epic.'

sure, it's frustrating for the press, but ultimately, it's not going to hurt the game. AT ALL. it doesn't matter if ol' Hilly goes into the game feeling like a sack of shit. he will be pwned. and it certainly won't matter for the millions of people who'll buy and play halo 2 on 11/9 what kind of unprofessional grudge the enthusiast print or online publications have against bungie. because they'll be pwned. justin timberlake will be pwned. so will his girlfriend. for months and months to come.

i know the game will be that good.

I heart you.

 

[SKluck]

I'm still shocked anyone would name their son Hilary.

 

[Senretsu]

What do you do when you're site is on shutout for one of the biggest games of the year? You write about how you're on shutout for 6 pages and slap it on the front page, that girl Hilary is brilliant!

joking aside, she did make it an interesting read, like a big struggle or something.

 

[MC Safety]

What do you do when you're site is on shutout for one of the biggest games of the year? You write about how you're on shutout for 6 pages and slap it on the front page, that girl Hilary is brilliant!

joking aside, she did make it an interesting read, like a big struggle or something.

He did.

And don't worry, he'll have his say with a 15-page review, three pages of which may, or may not, concern itself with what he had for lunch.

 

[chespace]

What do you do when you're site is on shutout for one of the biggest games of the year? You write about how you're on shutout for 6 pages and slap it on the front page, that girl Hilary is brilliant!

joking aside, she did make it an interesting read, like a big struggle or something.

exactly. if you don't get to cover a game, that means it must suck.

if anything all hilary has demonstrated is that halo 2 is so big, even writing about not knowing jack shit about halo 2 as the top story on your front page can get you results.

 

[cvxfreak]

exactly. if you don't get to cover a game, that means it must suck.

if anything all hilary has demonstrated is that halo 2 is so big, even writing about not knowing jack shit about halo 2 as the top story on your front page can get you results.

So true...

 

[Senretsu]

yeah,

and whoops, my bad, I thought Hilary was a woman, but apparently it looks like I'm not the only one. Hope your're not offended if you're reading this dude, honest mistake.

 

[GhaleonEB]

yeah,

and whoops, my bad, I thought Hilary was a woman, but apparently it looks like I'm not the only one. Hope your're not offended if you're reading this dude, honest mistake.

I thought he was a woman all two years I subscribed to IGN Insider. Go figure.

 

[Mike Works]

exactly. if you don't get to cover a game, that means it must suck.

Too be fair, even though it seems like you're joking, that wasn't Hilary's (view)point at all.

 

[chespace]

Too be fair, even though it seems like you're joking, that wasn't Hilary's (view)point at all.

my sarcasm, of course, is triggered by his comment about going into halo 2 with a negative mindset because he was somehow deprived of single-player coverage as a journalist. talk about twisted.

i understand his frustration at bungie/MS. hell, collectively, the entire game journalist community feels the same pinch. but that's no reason to take it out on the game itself come time for the review.

 

[Odysseus]

I wonder who will actually be doing the review for IGN... Doug? The Xbox n00b?! :O

 

[Patrick Klepek]

more developers should follow bungie's lead.

 

[BuddyC]

more developers should follow bungie's lead.

yea, i'm going to agree.

 

[op_ivy]

i've been bitching about bungie's tyranny over the press re: Halo 2 for months and months now. mark should know this. reading hil's little soapbox, i could certainly relate. in fact, even on the way up to bungie two days ago, i was like completely fed up with the way journos have been stonewalled when it comes to anything related to single-player.

but then that all changed when i got to bungie. sure, playing single-player halo 2 really helped, but beyond that, it was seeing just how frantic it was over there (they literally have around 23 or 22 days to go before submission), how dedicated and intense the staff was, and then playing halo 2 single-player and realizing that showing off a game before it's polished (i.e., shitty framerates, texture pop-up everywhere, cutscenes with no sound, etc.) isn't really good for ANYONE. especially halo fans. why? well first there's inevitable disappointment when you see something like halo 2 run at 10fps -- even if you know that by the time the game goes gold, everything will be buttah. second of all, spoilers. tons of spoilers everywhere. that's how significant the single-player is this time around. the stuff we've seen... i can honestly say that bungie has truly come to an understanding of the word 'epic.'

sure, it's frustrating for the press, but ultimately, it's not going to hurt the game. AT ALL. it doesn't matter if ol' Hilly goes into the game feeling like a sack of shit. he will be pwned. and it certainly won't matter for the millions of people who'll buy and play halo 2 on 11/9 what kind of unprofessional grudge the enthusiast print or online publications have against bungie. because they'll be pwned. justin timberlake will be pwned. so will his girlfriend. for months and months to come.

i know the game will be that good.

i have the chills and my eyes are watering.

 

[Mike Works]

my sarcasm, of course, is triggered by his comment about going into halo 2 with a negative mindset because he was somehow deprived of single-player coverage as a journalist. talk about twisted.

I actually don't think that's so twisted. I've gone into games I've reviewed with the same mindset, and though I never let it affect my score, I can share the same sentiment.

The thing is, you can go in with a similar feeling if you're overexposed to a certain game before it's released.

But if Halo 2 is amazing as you say it will be, I'm fairly certain those feelings will just wash away.

Personally, I'm a little disgruntled that they're not showing off any single player at all- save for the E3 2003 thing. Multiplayer doesn't interest me nearly as much as single player (save for co-op if that counts), and I'm tired of seeing repeated generic character models (mainly Master Chief and the... bad alien dude in multi with the sword) painted by different colors in closed off multiplayer maps.

They could easily unveil some single player stuff without showing spoilers.

 

[ManDudeChild]

The big online sites have all played on the up-and-up, without breaking Halo 2 embargoes, but some European and Japanese sites haven't followed suit (such is the norm for the industry). So things we can't talk about are already very open and out there on the Internet for people to find. That's pretty frustrating.

And then comes the consumer shows. Now that E3 is over, Halo 2 is making the rounds across the world. While we are always forbidden from filming off-screen or getting direct feed, several fan sites have managed to get some rather long direct-feed of Halo 2 multiplayer. With god-awful compression, these movies look like ass. But you know what, they look a hell of a lot better than the movies we don't have on our site.

I can sympathise with the way things have been for Halo 2 ... but I really have a hard time feeling sorry for IGN. In fact, I submit IGN inhale copious amounts of doodle. Especially since IGN has impressions that Halo 2 fansites can't post about yet.

 

[AniHawk]

I think a lot of folks are gonna go into their reviews now looking for reasons to slam Halo 2.

Because they're angry they didn't get to play it before the review copy of the game? What?

 

[chespace]

Because they're angry they didn't get to play it before the review copy of the game? What?

i do wonder though... ultimately all this bullshit comes down to hype. i have no doubt halo 2 single-player will blow 95% of its owners away -- but there'll always be that vocal 5% who are somehow LETDOWN, even while bungie never even showed jackshit about single-player, therefore making absolutely zero promises. in this case, i agree that it'll probably be impossible for halo 2 to live up to the imaginations of retarded fanboys everywhere.

 

[ManDudeChild]

i do wonder though... ultimately all this bullshit comes down to hype. i have no doubt halo 2 single-player will blow 95% of its owners away -- but there'll always be that vocal 5% who are somehow LETDOWN, even while bungie never even showed jackshit about single-player, therefore making absolutely zero promises. in this case, i agree that it'll probably be impossible for halo 2 to live up to the imaginations of retarded fanboys everywhere.

... and it's those bastard fanboys that make it so NiGHTS 2 will never be

 

[Blimblim]

Hilary complains about a european fan site (I guess he's writing about halo.fr) breaking the official date for their Halo 2 story. Guess what ? They actually had the green light from MS to post it. MS did the mistake, and halo.fr pulled the story.
The asian fansite he mentions is I guess ruliweb. Hardly a fansite, but they are known for this shit since a loooong time now.
As for your usual fansite like mine, we are all embargoed until October 1st, for the exact same story and images Gamespot and IGN just put online. I can understand the paper press having some priority, but why would some sites have the rights to put stuff online 3 full weeks before everyone else ? Do you really think anyone will care when we will put these screens and impressions online ? I don't think so.

I completely agree with the fact that MS is getting way too stupid for some stuff. I was not allowed to film anything at the Halo 2 presentation (even with that 3 page NDA signed), same for the Fable presentation. And then one week later the exact same Halo 2 build was shown to the public at the asian X04 (yes it was opened to anyone), and Fable was playable by anyone at the Game Convention, PAX or EGN. Now that's some stuff you can complain about. I was able to put online movies of Fable we took from EGN, from I guess the same build I was forbidden to film one week before, of course they were not as good as what we could have done when we were at the MS event. Moronic to say the least.

If a publisher asks me not to put online stuff before a certain date, I respect that. But if some other people are allowed to do so way before me (a few days exclusivity is understandable) then they shouldn't expect anything from me. I sure did not do any Fable coverage (I was so pissed I more or less refused an exclusive video later on) and I do not think I will do anything for this Halo 2 beta either.

Anyway, I'm sure no one cares about my stupid fan site, so I'll step off my soap box and go sulk somewhere else

 

[Funky Papa]

The best part of this thread is not the link, it is Che's comments. I salute you.

About the fansite comments: I find very interesting Hilary's ramblings about fansites getting videos while they wait under a NDA or get nothing aside from a phone call. You know what? Fansites are GREAT to promote games. Webmasters/writers agree to almost anything for a few minutes of beta gameplay or promo material, they don't charge you incredible sums of money for a banner and they will probably review the game with glowing opinions after a lot of previous coverage (and a crapload of visits). That's the true essence of viral marketing, to let the fans spread the word instead of spending big bags of cash everywhere to promote a game. Now that more professional looking fansites are popping out here and there I believe that we are going to get used to this in the future.

PS: Shut up BlimBlim, we love your site

Sure, we tried to get as much exclusively as possible and back then, it really was all about being the only one with info. We did our best to sell IGN as the ideal home for Halo 2 info. Don't think every other site wasn't doing the same at this point.

And now you are pissed because some fans got it. OK.

 

[ManDudeChild]

Hilary complains about a european fan site (I guess he's writing about halo.fr) breaking the official date for their Halo 2 story. Guess what ? They actually had the green light from MS to post it. MS did the mistake, and halo.fr pulled the story.
The asian fansite he mentions is I guess ruliweb. Hardly a fansite, but they are known for this shit since a loooong time now.
As for your usual fansite like mine, we are all embargoed until October 1st, for the exact same story and images Gamespot and IGN just put online. I can understand the paper press having some priority, but why would some sites have the rights to put stuff online 3 full weeks before everyone else ? Do you really think anyone will care when we will put these screens and impressions online ? I don't think so.

I completely agree with the fact that MS is getting way too stupid for some stuff. I was not allowed to film anything at the Halo 2 presentation (even with that 3 page NDA signed), same for the Fable presentation. And then one week later the exact same Halo 2 build was shown to the public at the asian X04 (yes it was opened to anyone), and Fable was playable by anyone at the Game Convention, PAX or EGN. Now that's some stuff you can complain about. I was able to put online movies of Fable we took from EGN, from I guess the same build I was forbidden to film one week before, of course they were not as good as what we could have done when we were at the MS event. Moronic to say the least.

If a publisher asks me not to put online stuff before a certain date, I respect that. But if some other people are allowed to do so way before me (a few days exclusivity is understandable) then they shouldn't expect anything from me. I sure did not do any Fable coverage (I was so pissed I more or less refused an exclusive video later on) and I do not think I will do anything for this Halo 2 beta either.

Anyway, I'm sure no one cares about my stupid fan site, so I'll step off my soap box and go sulk somewhere else

IAWTP.

I think part of the problem is that the relationship between publishers and media outlets is a bit too close nowadays.

 

[cybamerc]

chespace:

> how dedicated and intense the staff was, and then playing halo 2 single-player and
> realizing that showing off a game before it's polished (i.e., shitty framerates, texture
> pop-up everywhere, cutscenes with no sound, etc.) isn't really good for ANYONE.

So are you saying that less then a month before it goes gold those problems still exist?



eXxy:

> more developers should follow bungie's lead.

Eh... just another marketing gimmick. It's not like Halo 2 hasn't been whored around like crazy since 2002.

 

[FightyF]

I've never had much respect for Hilary (not as a person, but as a videogame journalist), and this article adds to that disrespect. I see this as whining.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Great posts in here, especially the ones by Che.

 

[GhaleonEB]

chespace:

> how dedicated and intense the staff was, and then playing halo 2 single-player and
> realizing that showing off a game before it's polished (i.e., shitty framerates, texture
> pop-up everywhere, cutscenes with no sound, etc.) isn't really good for ANYONE.

So are you saying that less then a month before it goes gold those problems still exist?



eXxy:

> more developers should follow bungie's lead.

Eh... just another marketing gimmick. It's not like Halo 2 hasn't been whored around like crazy since 2002.

Actually, it hasn't, but thanks for playing!

 

[Keio]

I think part of the problem is that the relationship between publishers and media outlets is a bit too close nowadays.

Maybe it's not just A PART of the problem, maybe this IS THE PROBLEM.

It's just crazy that a publisher can so easily control the media coverage of a big game, right from the announcement to review scores (in exchange for ad space, promises of future "exclusives" etc.)

We have games journos sitting on top of big news, waiting for "permission" to publish them. And this has bred a culture of self-censorship and a readiness to obey the demands of publishers.

NDAs and armies of lawyers are probably the biggest reason for this stuff? Plus of course the fear of losing out on the next big story + free goodie bag.

 

[Pug]

This just sounds like Jorno's being pissed that they don’t get to play the game weeks in advance so they can release poxy articles explaining how fantastic it is to us mere mortals. By the way the promise of magazine editorial or cover mounts has been rife since gaming magazine took off 20 yrs back. The fact that a publisher of a game says we will give you exclusive if you give us front cover and a big preview happens in all magazine business. I will tell you one thing though, it never to my knowledge ever influenced critiques, well not from the Journo's I know.

 

[chespace]

Maybe it's not just A PART of the problem, maybe this IS THE PROBLEM.

It's just crazy that a publisher can so easily control the media coverage of a big game, right from the announcement to review scores (in exchange for ad space, promises of future "exclusives" etc.)

We have games journos sitting on top of big news, waiting for "permission" to publish them. And this has bred a culture of self-censorship and a readiness to obey the demands of publishers.

NDAs and armies of lawyers are probably the biggest reason for this stuff? Plus of course the fear of losing out on the next big story + free goodie bag.

i wouldn't go so far as to call it self-censorship. using halo 2 as an example... being not only the biggest and most important xbox game since the console's launch, but also one of the biggest and most far-reaching western games this generation, XBN would ideally like to give it some sort of coverage month after month. and we do. but how do we do that when bungie is -extremely- tight with assets?

apparently it takes two people about a whole day to dump out one screenshot they feel is quality enough. i have no reason to doubt their claim. but that leaves us journos in a bind. how do we cover something when there's 1). nothing new to show 2). almost nothing new to talk about? sure, i can summarize 4 weekly updates and compile them into an issue (and i do ) but then what do you show for screenshots?

do you see what i'm getting at here... what i described above isn't self-censorship. it's a total lack of access to the goods. but you're partially right about company relationships (but totally fucking off the mark about the free goodie bag). suppose i came upon this incredibly revealing morsel of information -- which i would automatically have to dub as rumor because bungie won't comment -- and suppose i took a gamble and printed it. was it truly worth our while to say "X" when we have no official confirmation (nor denial), at the expense of our relationship with bungie (who would more than likely get pissed)?

the other problem is, unlike traditional journalism where you can't just hit the road with a pen and notepad and "investigate" the story. all investigation here invitably leads to bungie employees or microsoft PR. i'll tell you right now, these kids can be a tight-lipped bunch when it comes to something as important as halo 2.

 

[DSN2K]

IGN did this ? good read.

 

[Mr. Lemming]

So... instead of Halo 2 needing the media to hype it up to increase exposure and eventually sales like say Katamari, the media needs Halo 2 to increase exposure and sales. The tables being turned so to speak.

 

[chespace]

So... instead of Halo 2 needing the media to hype it up to increase exposure and eventually sales like say Katamari, the media needs Halo 2 to increase exposure and sales. The tables being turned so to speak.

exactly. sucks for enthusiast press, but at this point, bungie and halo 2 do not need our blessing or support to be a smashing success in 2004.

mainstream press is another story. if i were with, say, time or newsweek magazine and i wanted to do a 4 page feature on halo 2, you better be sure they'd play ball.

 

[Jonnyboy117]

Sometimes I wish gaming journalism could be more like real journalism, with undercover investigations, hardball interviews, and high-ranking officials leaking information.

It's not like that at all, though. What we do is more like Entertainment Weekly, which bothers me to no end, because I HATE entertainment "journalism". But I don't know if there's a way to bring gaming journalism closer to real journalism, because the news we cover is created by the actions of people in closed environments, and there are virtually no avenues for obtaining coverage of these games without going through the developer (or more realistically, the publisher).

So gaming journalism boils down to a process of requesting and obtaining information from publishers, then figuring out how honest you can be about what they give you, which has to be balanced with how popular your outlet is. IGN can piss off Nintendo, because they're IGN. To a great extent, I don't have that luxury, and sometimes it limits what I can do with coverage. If I really and truly piss off Nintendo, and they quit working with us at all, then my coverage would suffer so much that I could no longer compete at any respectable level.

These media outlets then become mouthpieces for the publishers, or at best, filters to sort through the PR mumbo jumbo and give useful information to readers. But we don't have nearly the freedom or access of real journalists. We are at the mercy of these publishers, as Hilary's article makes all too clear. For that matter, all gamers are at the mercy of the publishers for their information. In a supply-demand economy, that's really not how it should be. Gamers should be able to say, perhaps through the voices of gaming media outlets, what they want from these publishers, and the publishers should have to respond accordingly or face failure. But the culture of gaming is such that we gamers are used to feeling "blessed" by the games these publishers release, and so we hand control of our pocketbooks to them, and at the most, we grumble that this year's Madden isn't a big improvement as we fork over fifty dollars for it anyway. Hype is the way publishers exert this control over the market, and hype is heavily distributed through the media outlets.

And that's the state of gaming journalism, like it or not. I don't.

 

[Odysseus]

Reading Hilary's plight makes me wonder what a Nintendo magazine/site editor must be going through trying to get information on Prime 2 or the next Zelda, or even what the wait was like for Mario Sunshine. Think Bungie is secretive? Nintendo hid the waterpack as if it had something to do with Roswell.

 

[Ferrarisimo]

Wow. IGN is bitching about publications breaking embargo? IGN?!

They are the queens of embargo breakage.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Dave Halverson wrote something akin to this in the last Play basically stating how ridiculous it was that publishers controlled coverage. He made a good point about how stuff like this is totally absent in the movie industry.

 

[Blazing Sword]

Are'nt we all losing sight of what's important here? Che got to play single player and basically said it will deliver us a 'Mike Tyson in his prime' punch to the head with its awesomeness!

Tell me, Che, could it easliy be the best game you've played this year?