Wonder Woman |OT| The World is Ready for You, Gal Gad [SPOILERS]
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As he said, people have a choice whether or not to listen to him. That's the point.
If this movie actually manages to both a critical and commercial success, it wouldn't be surprising to see Warner Brothers try to pivot in that direction.
Although stuff like the Aquaman movie and a Joss Whedon helmed Batgirl give me hope that it won't just be Wonder Woman that's good.
I find it pretty hard to say it was better.
Chris Pine's sacrifice was good after the character's story but Diana's arc was really weak.
Deadshot and Harley had really cheesy realizations but at least their characters felt like they had a bit of an arc and a pay off. El Diablo's arc and pay off felt good enough though his sacrifice isn't even acknowledged by anyone in the film.
The fights/resolutions in neither film were particularly good. WW had a more cohesive plot up to that point and the editing wasn't a mess. Even if Wonder Woman is better, it's not by much. I think WW had a worse third act than BvS and I thought that was a worse film with a weak 3rd act, but better than WW's.
No matter ho successful WW is, despite being in the best received DCEU film, there is no way WB pushes Batman aside for any other character to be the star.
If the movie really takes off and the Ben Affleck going nuts rumours are true, they need someone to hang the DCEU on and Wonder Woman looks like a good pick.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
She definitely seems to be the heart of the DCEU. She actually enjoys her job and is motivated to do real good. And the conflict to do what is right actually feels real and earned compared to MoS "maybe you should let them kids drown and maybe you should let me die to this tornado."
I liked David Thewlis as Ares. Maybe went a little over the top toward the very end of their fight but I thought the little twist there was fun and enjoyed their conversation together as he took Diana to the "perfect" world and gave her glimpses of what had happened inside the real world.
DecoReturns
Member
I really appreciate the fact they didn't give him a generic Demon Voice or change the actor.
I was expecting that to happen at one point.
Good movie. I was legit surprised at Aeres reveal. I thought for sure it was gonna be mask face. I'm happy that they put WW on the same basic level as Superman.
I love the sailboat scene where she legit looked like she was impatiently waiting for him to make a move. She is amazingly beautiful
I love the sailboat scene where she legit looked like she was impatiently waiting for him to make a move. She is amazingly beautiful
I have to agree with you with regards to Batman. He's always going to be iconic to the DCEU in the same way he is to the actual comic book universe.
But I think in the same way that Marvel now has Iron Man as the undisputed star of the MCU, but with Captain America as the connective tissue that holds together the different characters and how they interconnect with each other, I think Wonder Woman can do the same. It should have been Superman, really, but he`s taking so damn long to finally realize "Why we fight," that Wonder Woman kind of wins by default right now by virtue of being the most emotionally well adjusted of the DC movie heroes for the moment.
brandonh83
Banned
I guess for me WW's climax was weak by comparison of the rest of the film. I didn't hate it or think it was legitimately awful. Just a weak point. Suicide Squad was just terrible to me from top to bottom so maybe that has something to do with it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Why not both?
Great movie. Often touching and moving and well acted to the contrary of Gal's many haters. All you can really ask for.
She really made a great Wonder Woman. I look forward to seeing her work with the crew in JL now more than ever.
I hope this movie makes more than enough to satisfy execs.
Compared to Snyder's nihilistic Superman and Batman, seeing someone motivated to be a hero because it's the right thing to do seems like a goddamn revelation.
I agree with this take. Wonder Woman fills the role that Superman should better than he does in the DCEU.
PhantomZone
Member
I said this less than 2 weeks ago and got mocked. But you can bet DC/WB will ride the Wonder Woman gravy train as much as they can. Will be funny to see Batman tragics melt down over the character being relegated a bit.
brandonh83
Banned
Is Jenkins signed on for the sequel? I loved the screenplay here aside from the third act so if they can get that writing quality back but with an improved third act and climax, under her direction and after having more experience and Gal as well, it could no fucking joke be my favorite superhero movie ever. This was close.
Well, the thing to me is that if WB doesn't mess it up (which, I understand all too well is not something we can take as a given) they may actually have a "have your cake and eat it too" situation.
Everyone already likes Batman because, at least since the Nolan incarnation, he filled up the "grimdark" quotient of being the messed up, dark character that explores the nuances and moral ambiguities of being a "dark hero" that struggles against even darker criminals.
But Wonder Woman can actually satisfy the "Marvel contingent" that would actually prefer to see more positive role models who are doing the right thing, and can even have a little fun with it, while still inspiring people with positive messages about the nature of heroism.
It saddens me a little that it's the Goddess Child from Themyscira who was created to kill gods who is doing a better of this than the farm boy from Kansas, but it is what it is.
They are not going to switch Batman out of the center of the DCEU, because the Wonder Woman IP has little reach beyond her own solo films and her part in the Justice League.
You could do a half dozen different films using the Batman IP and not even show Batman himself. No one other than Slayven is lining up for a Donna solo.
You could do a half dozen different films using the Batman IP and not even show Batman himself. No one other than Slayven is lining up for a Donna solo.
cr0w
Old Member
My wife and I just got back. It's gonna take me some time to figure out where it ranks in my list of top comic movies, but I will say that I haven't "believed" in an actor as a superhero as much as I believed in Gadot since the first time I saw Christopher Reeve as Superman. She was heroic, she was inspiring, and she was simply good.
I wasn't as skeptical as some about Gadot being cast, but I never believed she could pull off what she did in this film. I'm just utterly in awe of her Diana. Plus she's possibly the most beautiful woman I've seen on screen in a very long time. I can't speak highly enough of her in this film.
I think this might be my favorite superhero origin film so far, but time will tell on this one. As a longtime DC fan frankly I'm floored by Gadot as Diana. I could go on all night.
I wasn't as skeptical as some about Gadot being cast, but I never believed she could pull off what she did in this film. I'm just utterly in awe of her Diana. Plus she's possibly the most beautiful woman I've seen on screen in a very long time. I can't speak highly enough of her in this film.
I think this might be my favorite superhero origin film so far, but time will tell on this one. As a longtime DC fan frankly I'm floored by Gadot as Diana. I could go on all night.
Well at least Snyder managed to unwittingly made Superman a better allegory for America today than we could have imagined a few years ago. No longer the leader of the free world, losing it's place as a great superpower and noble beacon for democracy, and bitterly trying to run away from it's place in the world. :/
Geez, are we at a point where a noble, positive hero is only a "Marvel thing" for a "Marvel contingent"?
My job paid for a screening to see it today and me and my wife just got out about an hour ago. I really loved it. It felt very true to the character, truer than I was expecting it to be.
Gal Gadot did a really good job conveying Diana's earnestness and naïveté, and her fish out of water scenes were genuinely endearing and charming. While some of the CG was hit and miss, the action scenes were very satisfying. "The big moment" for Diana really got a crowd reaction. My wife was a wreck. It really means a lot to a lot of women to see a character as iconic as Wonder Woman handled so well. It wasn't a flawless movie, and it shouldn't be the movie that decides if superhero movies with women leads live or die, but man, it was a good time.
This is the first DC Cinematic Universe movie I'm going to buy on Blu Ray.
Gal Gadot did a really good job conveying Diana's earnestness and naïveté, and her fish out of water scenes were genuinely endearing and charming. While some of the CG was hit and miss, the action scenes were very satisfying. "The big moment" for Diana really got a crowd reaction. My wife was a wreck. It really means a lot to a lot of women to see a character as iconic as Wonder Woman handled so well. It wasn't a flawless movie, and it shouldn't be the movie that decides if superhero movies with women leads live or die, but man, it was a good time.
This is the first DC Cinematic Universe movie I'm going to buy on Blu Ray.
My God, that's a depressing observation.
Though in Snyder's defense, I'm not actually totally down on what he tried to do with Superman. In some ways, I actually really like the questions he's trying to ask with Superman. I can get behind the Kents worrying about the welfare of their son in a complex, morally ambiguous world. And I actually really liked the intent of the little montage in BvS where Superman is doing his "world weary hero thing" overlaid with news broadcasts of scientific, philosophical and political experts questioning the duty, obligation and moral position of a demi-god on Earth. That was actually fantastic stuff to me that really got close to the question of 'What if superheroes were real?"
Where it all fell apart for me was that I was actually hoping Superman would engage with the senators at that investigation, and at least try to wrestle with the government on the idea of "Well, I can save all these people, are you going to let me do it?" And instead we got the bombing, so to hell with that.
I have no issues with Snyder's fascination and attempt to question what a hero should do, or the nature of heroism. It's a good question that should actually be examined. I think where Snyder failed for me was that he forgot to celebrate the innate appeal of heroism itself.
Batman has always been kind of lost in that regard, so that's no real surprise, but under Nolan's watch, you still had a clear idea of his convictions. Snyder Batman is already just surrendered to his rage that after all these years, crime still exists, but hopefully Wonder Woman can fix that. Superman doesn't even know why he's doing the stuff he does, and most of his big acts of heroism are actually more in defense of his loved ones, like Lois, or his mother, so he hasn't really found any firm resolve or commitment to justice. Snyder just kind of treats superheroes as powerful people that just happen to do good things, almost by accident while they're pursuing other goals.
The better Marvel movies, like the first two Raimi Spider-Man films, Captain America, or the first Avengers movie don't struggle with this stuff. Consciously or not, they clearly, neatly explain to the audience--and to the hero--why their heroism is required.
trikster40
Member
Wow, fantastic movie! Just got out, this may be the best superhero movie of the MCU/DCEU era. The thing that I really liked is that it just feels like I'm watching a super human. This, Man of Steel, the fight scenes were just so visceral, you could feel the punches.
This movie actually makes me want to watch BvS again just to see her in action again, see if it changes my perception of the movie a bit. It definitely got me hyped for JL.
This movie actually makes me want to watch BvS again just to see her in action again, see if it changes my perception of the movie a bit. It definitely got me hyped for JL.
Anyone who says Gal was a bad actress in THIS movie. I'm sorry I just can't take that criticism seriously. Sure she's not the best in the world and she's certainly not winning any Oscars, but she really portrayed Diana Prince better than anyone imo. I can't see anyone else in that role at this point.
It was honestly a great movie and I had an amazing time. My only complaints are honestly nitpicks. I do kinda feel they relied on the slo mo a little too much, but it didn't' deter the action for me.
And I think the ending went on just a bit too long. I actually didn't have an issue with the fight against Ares. Aside from the "No Mans Land" sequence the ending was her most heroic moment. Her sparing Dr. Poison and rejecting Ares temptation.
Green light a sequel ASAP.
It was honestly a great movie and I had an amazing time. My only complaints are honestly nitpicks. I do kinda feel they relied on the slo mo a little too much, but it didn't' deter the action for me.
And I think the ending went on just a bit too long. I actually didn't have an issue with the fight against Ares. Aside from the "No Mans Land" sequence the ending was her most heroic moment. Her sparing Dr. Poison and rejecting Ares temptation.
Green light a sequel ASAP.
Obliterator
Member
Just got back.
I legit cannot praise this film enough. Gal Gadot utterly owns the role. She is flat out fucking incredible, and anyone who bashes her over her performance here is out of their minds. The action is fantastic. The romance is handled perfectly. Not overbearing but serves the film so well. The on screen chemistry between Gal and Pine is 100% believable and nothing between them feels forced.
I adored this film. Absolutely adored it.
I legit cannot praise this film enough. Gal Gadot utterly owns the role. She is flat out fucking incredible, and anyone who bashes her over her performance here is out of their minds. The action is fantastic. The romance is handled perfectly. Not overbearing but serves the film so well. The on screen chemistry between Gal and Pine is 100% believable and nothing between them feels forced.
I adored this film. Absolutely adored it.
ArkkAngel007
Member
Loved the film aside from the final confrontation, where I feel the choreography and imagery lacked compared to that point. Specifically where Diana rages from Steve's death. The way she moved through the German soldiers and the shots of the blast aura power just didn't feel right and seemed visually muddled. Outside of that specific part, the fight was decent.
It will take another watch to probably fully appreciate it, but it's certainly one of the better superhero films out there.
Edit: Agree on Gadot being amazing in the role. Never understood the criticism of her, but there also hasn't been much to gauge on how she would fare as the leading star. Pine and the rest of the cast deliver as well.
It will take another watch to probably fully appreciate it, but it's certainly one of the better superhero films out there.
Edit: Agree on Gadot being amazing in the role. Never understood the criticism of her, but there also hasn't been much to gauge on how she would fare as the leading star. Pine and the rest of the cast deliver as well.
F****** this.
Obliterator
Member
I thought the entire last fight / sequence was fucking phenomenal.
Yea. I think maybe you could have cut it down just a bit, but I had no issues with what happened. Maybe some spotty CGI but that's it.
You could have probably done something better but what we got wasn't awful or anything. It was ok.
I guess you could say compared to the rest of the movie it was a bit of a low point, but I'm fairly easy to please and I would think most people are and it works.
Obliterator
Member
I didn't have really any issues with it. I think its one of the better comic fight scenes put on screen. One thing I'll say is DC is incredible at showing off how insanely powerful their heroes are in the DCU. And they dont mess that up with WW. She feels like a force of nature during the end sequence.
My only minor nitpick with the film is they maybe relied on slo-mo overall a bit too much.
Yup. Used a bit too much but it still didn't deter the action for me.
Totally agree with you on your other point too. She kicks ass and she's strong and they don't shy away from that.
Obliterator
Member
Yeah I'm in the same boat. It was used enough to the point I was starting to notice it and be like "man there is a ton of slow mo in this movie" but it never really got to the point it bothered me. Partially because the movie itself is filmed so well.
It was great, especially with the wonderfully tragic scene of Steve trying to tell himself to do it, with Diana's reaction afterword. Don't know about the rest of everyone's crowd but I heard quite a bit of sniffles (from what seemed to be a balanced number of men and women).
Wonder Woman was quite enjoyable! 8/10 movie for me.
Pros:
* The editing was about 50 times better than Batman vs. Superman.
* Acting is solid.
* WW1 setting worked really well.
* Gal Gadot is gorgeous, and though her facial expressions may be limited (two of her grief scenes actually felt a little comical to me), her emotion worked well enough for this sort of movie. She overall really owned the role.
* By DC movie standards, this was ASTONISHINGLY good.
Cons:
* That stupid Wonder Woman theme from Batman vs. Superman is still here, but at least they only played it 4-5 times.
* I'd have preferred about 2 hours long instead of 2:20.
Pros:
* The editing was about 50 times better than Batman vs. Superman.
* Acting is solid.
* WW1 setting worked really well.
* Gal Gadot is gorgeous, and though her facial expressions may be limited (two of her grief scenes actually felt a little comical to me), her emotion worked well enough for this sort of movie. She overall really owned the role.
* By DC movie standards, this was ASTONISHINGLY good.
Cons:
* That stupid Wonder Woman theme from Batman vs. Superman is still here, but at least they only played it 4-5 times.
* I'd have preferred about 2 hours long instead of 2:20.
UnknownSpirit
Member
These are my thoughts. So I agree 10000%
The whole sequence in the village/no mans land in the second act is something that makes this movie incredible.
That sequence is THE sequence of the movie, like the way she moves, what she does, how she does it. It's all correct and works so well. She embraces WW at that point and it locks it, and it's glorious.
It's one of the best sequences of the year.
The camera loves Gal Gadot, I swear every shot she is in, she's breathtaking.
EDIT: I really dislike her theme, wish they would write her a new one.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Damn. Having to go back to JL after this (please, please, please let someone make a better cut than Snyder would have) with grim-derp Batman and co. is gonna make for some rough sailing unless someone who actually gives a damn about superheroes comes in and fixes shit.
Personally felt Gadot was maaaaaaybe a bit wooden during a few scenes, but she still nailed Diana coming into Man's World and witnessing both the good and the bad, along with the comedy that isn't just depressing snark.
My only question after the film was....'well, where's she been for the past century?'
Personally felt Gadot was maaaaaaybe a bit wooden during a few scenes, but she still nailed Diana coming into Man's World and witnessing both the good and the bad, along with the comedy that isn't just depressing snark.
My only question after the film was....'well, where's she been for the past century?'
Yeah, some other people said the same thing. She didn't go cynical and give up on everyone, so they'd have to say "she was trapped in space Hulk style and couldn't stop Hitler" or whatever.
She was basically Thor power level in this.
Obliterator
Member
One of the first things my wife said after the film was "I'm sorry but I have a massive girl crush on Gal now" and I was like, hey I totally understand. Its almost shocking how much the camera loves her. She looks incredible in every single shot in the film.
And honestly Chris Pine better get some props from this as well. I though he was so good in it and felt a perfect co-star to Gal. It was absolutely her film but what a fantastic job he did in supporting her in it.
And honestly Chris Pine better get some props from this as well. I though he was so good in it and felt a perfect co-star to Gal. It was absolutely her film but what a fantastic job he did in supporting her in it.
It's possible, though, that she DID. Get cynical and give up on people, I mean. If she, like everyone else, was under the impression that WWI was "the war to end all wars," then WWII rolls around, not just with better weapons, but genocide AND nukes, that might have given her pause.
I personally think she just wanted to avoid the "Superman problem" of having everybody suddenly see her as both the answer to all their problems, that they expect her to solve, as well as opening up a bunch of new ones.
BvS already showed us that the world at large didn't know she existed, so she obviously went into lower profile mode, pretty quickly. That's a big contrast from the MCU, where Captain America was well known to everyone and continued to have an influence even after he went under ice.
Maybe it's just me, but I really like that theme.
That's not what it happens. The armstice was happening that night. The war ending at the same time as Ares' death was a (poetic) coincidence.
BronsonLee
Member
If they have her break mentally, it better be some really heavy shit because she went through WW1, watching her love die, and batting away a god of war and that didn't do it
I'm sure some people do, and it felt slightly less grating here, but it's just a personal gripe.
friskykillface
Banned
I'll never like that Wonder Woman theme but it was played just a few times so it's ok.
Movie was really good, enjoyed it much more than superman vs batman
Let Wonder Woman lead the DC universe
Batman should be shook in every fight that supes and Wonder Woman are apart of, two gods and batman
Movie was really good, enjoyed it much more than superman vs batman
Let Wonder Woman lead the DC universe
Batman should be shook in every fight that supes and Wonder Woman are apart of, two gods and batman
Chris Pine is so good because he starts off playing his standard role but by the time he's on the plane and having his breakdown on the plane... I mean the whole film is filled with cracking supporting performances. Even Doctor Poison, who's arc is some genetic shit on paper but her face near the end when she thinks she's gonna die, or considering joining with Steve (and she absolutely knows who he is) is some great little acting.
Inceptional
Member
I re-watched BvS after I got home from WW and WW really does help inform her character in BvS. She feels more like she's seen some shit as opposed to coming off as kind of holier than thou. Also, all her little quips like, "Oh, you've never met a woman like me," feel so much cooler now. Also, the smile she has fighting Doomsday is great because you now realize the extent of her powers.
The one flaw the WW movie adds though is that Diana could've just exploded Doomsday if she really wanted to. I mean, if she can kill a God, why not a Kryptonian mutant? It would've saved Superman from a hole in his hope.