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World of Warcraft |OT2|
- Thread starter EviLore
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wonderdung
Member
Alex said:
Yeah, you can have a 30k ignite tick going and a relatively small crit from LB can turn it into a low thousands tick. This is supposed to prevent that but it also removes a (large?) source of damage in the process. Blizzard's intent here is to buff ignite, but it seems it's turned out to mostly be a wash. I don't think it really smooths out DPS very much... you're still heavily dependent on your crit rate for ignites in the first place. It just brings ignite closer to the value that might be expected from the tooltip.
They're not done tinkering with it, though. I think I read a blue post saying they were considering adjusting spell damages.
wonderdung
Member
Cross-game items makes a lot of sense, but not between SC2 and WoW... so I assume this is a precursor to something Diablo-esque.Entropia said:
Alex said:
Blizz may play Ele Shaman, but it may be in some fantasy simulation. This is two expansions in a row where issues in game, in beta, in detailed analysis by top players, goes ignored. The EQ fix is nice, but it should as well be baseline. The PVP and mobility issues are still there. There was a long time where Ele was getting vastly different performance live in wotlk than what Blizz acted like they got internally. It is continued trends like this that do make me wonder what Blizzard is doing or trying to do. I got much better balance and reaction to issues with ANet, a smaller company.
I think the main problems come from some classes getting constant attentiveness and other classes not so much. I've always wondered if Blizz has begun using WoW as a social experiment. Separate people into class hierarchies. See how much you can fuck with that virtual strata. Push the game through addictive means. Finding out where the hook is, how to create behavior via it, etc. The community relations job is basically spin control.
The fact that everyone complains on the forums feels more like a product of this than a testament to how people are separate of the game experience. Classes that have had a leg up continually expect that leg up. They present their demands differently. Assume there will be response and addressing of the issues. Classes who have a history of getting ignored take up their issues much differently, have a totally different attitude toward approaching Blizzard. A Warrior response to a blue post is pretty different form a Shaman response. It's funny but also sad.
ToyMachine228
Member
So they're changing WoG which I understand why they wouldn't want Prot and Ret Paladins to be able to spam it at...But at the same time, making Holy Mastery a removal of the cooldown is essentially a nerf for Holy Paladins as well. We're losing our current Mastery (which I'm not really a fan of but still) in favor of an ability we already currently have. So Holy Paladins get to keep using WoG instantly but we lose the shield our heals put on people. Kind of a shitty deal.
ToyMachine228 said:
Er... are you sure of that? What evidence do you have for it? I've seen nothing to suggest that in the literature, unless the actual behaviour on the PTR makes it look to be the case.
I'm pretty sure the shields are staying, and the loss of CD is just an extra benefit you get from specialisation.
ToyMachine228
Member
Yazus said:
Well that's better than I thought. How I read it in the patch notes I believed the 4.1 mastery gave nothing but the removal of the WoG cd.
charlequin
Banned
J-Rzez said:
Nah, there are two Firehawk mounts, so these ones specifically won't be Blizzard-Store items. Although I'm sure they will add another sparklepony soon enough.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's an issue with the system where simultaneous crits will not proc Ignite at all. It's literally impossible to "math out" Fire because Ignite almost randomly doesn't proc. This smooths it out and it will be compensated for by something else, i.e. more fireball damage or something.Alex said:
Mount looks like Ashes of Al'ar again. But the difference seems to be that it has...feet?
What's with Blizzard and FEET this patch?!
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Yazus said:
Where are you getting this +% heals thing? On mmo champion and b.net the notes still say its the same mastery.
Johnlenham
Member
So ive been hacked as I cant seem to get the password right no matter what combination even though I have an authenticator. Such bullshit :<
Azwethinkweiz
Member
Azwethinkweiz said:
STA which is meh, and an on use trinket for dodge of all things with a 2 min cd. Porcelain crab is just too badass.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
etiolate said:
It would be a good laugh if they did; as a Priest, I never hope for buffs for fear of nerfs from them later. Ha!
But yah, there's already alot of mentality changes in classes as a whole in the many years; Rogues no longer are the gank 'n steady melee DPS classes with tons of non-damage ins, Shamans are no longer the Big Numbers, specialization, and one-of-a-kind buffs machines they were. Warriors are no longer the only tank, don't have that gear scaling difference nearly as much. It goes on.
Then you have the comments about how healers somehow are the only ones to find fun in restrictions...I know it was load of horseshit to placate dullards, but...they knew it would work enough to deflect attention.
Alex
Member
Elemental is perfectly fine in PvE, now. It pulls good numbers, has great utility and in 4.1 will have some of the best AoE in the game between non-channeled quake and Flame Shock based Fire Nova.
PvP issues are their own thing, they need separate talent trees just for PvP because there's no change they can make where it wont fuck something else up. That's the way it always is. PvP balance is now the best it's been, and it's quite good for the genre in general but until it's on at least some form of an enclosed environment it's never going to get much better.
Also, for PvP Elemental was fantastic in arena for two expansions in a row. Now Enhancement is good and Restoration is overpowered. While our Totem system needs a re-do, this is not exactly my idea of an ignored class, I had my complaints early on but almost all of them have been addressed, so kudos to them.
Sorry, but your arguments, as per usual, just reek of silliness to me. I mean you actually summarized them with a comment about not being coddled by community managers? What did they say to Warriors that you want them to say to us? All Warriors got was basically "your shit is fine, deal with it ".
PvP issues are their own thing, they need separate talent trees just for PvP because there's no change they can make where it wont fuck something else up. That's the way it always is. PvP balance is now the best it's been, and it's quite good for the genre in general but until it's on at least some form of an enclosed environment it's never going to get much better.
Also, for PvP Elemental was fantastic in arena for two expansions in a row. Now Enhancement is good and Restoration is overpowered. While our Totem system needs a re-do, this is not exactly my idea of an ignored class, I had my complaints early on but almost all of them have been addressed, so kudos to them.
Sorry, but your arguments, as per usual, just reek of silliness to me. I mean you actually summarized them with a comment about not being coddled by community managers? What did they say to Warriors that you want them to say to us? All Warriors got was basically "your shit is fine, deal with it ".
Ele is fine in PVE until it has to move. Has some mana issues as well. As long as its LB turret time, it works, but tank and spank isn't the Cata norm.
Ele wasn't fantastic in Arena. It had one trick and one existence. Astral Recall helped with the train-the-ele tactic, but they removed it for Cata. Before AR in WOTLK, Ele was just an attempt to get your nuke off before you die sort of experience. It only existed in 5s in BC and only at certain periods of the expansion, serving the same nuke and die purpose.
Ele wasn't fantastic in Arena. It had one trick and one existence. Astral Recall helped with the train-the-ele tactic, but they removed it for Cata. Before AR in WOTLK, Ele was just an attempt to get your nuke off before you die sort of experience. It only existed in 5s in BC and only at certain periods of the expansion, serving the same nuke and die purpose.
Alex
Member
I'd give you PvP for sure, Elem is fucked in PvP currently and it's just better to go Enhance or Resto, but for PvE the Elemental mobility issue is over exaggerated by a fair clip by a few folks.
There's a reason the complaints died down a bit lately, and it's because for the most part with experience, small buffs and scaling Elementals have managed to cure themselves of a few small quibbles, they do well in PvE as of late and there's a lot to show that.
They could make it more comfortable, sure. Right now you only have a few stop-gaps with Unleash, Flame Shock, Spiritwalkers and possible Totem reapplication, and occasionally you get a bad spot where none of it is available or a great option, but it's just not that bad at the moment. It's more of a polish thing, in my mind. I've yet to hear of any mana issues post-Rolling Thunder hotfix as well, personally.
But in general, I'm happy with Shaman's direction (outside of Totems, redo Totems *please*). I just don't think it (or anything, really) is a good example of Blizzard screwing the pooch at the moment for PvE. I don't know if I missed something sublime in the second half of Wrath or something, but their PvE class balance is really, really good compared to what it was, even if it does have a few bumps with some obnoxious hotfixes.
My only real wants for 4.1 for Shaman at the moment:
1.) Magma Totem buffed for Enhancement. Magma and Fire Elemental to possibly apply Searing Flames.
2.) Lava Surge made less goofy, possibly just redesigned entirely. You could cure some mobility qualms with this. (and give Elemental Astral Shfit back)
3.) Water Shield scaling and Let's see these Resto cooldown(s).
There's a reason the complaints died down a bit lately, and it's because for the most part with experience, small buffs and scaling Elementals have managed to cure themselves of a few small quibbles, they do well in PvE as of late and there's a lot to show that.
They could make it more comfortable, sure. Right now you only have a few stop-gaps with Unleash, Flame Shock, Spiritwalkers and possible Totem reapplication, and occasionally you get a bad spot where none of it is available or a great option, but it's just not that bad at the moment. It's more of a polish thing, in my mind. I've yet to hear of any mana issues post-Rolling Thunder hotfix as well, personally.
But in general, I'm happy with Shaman's direction (outside of Totems, redo Totems *please*). I just don't think it (or anything, really) is a good example of Blizzard screwing the pooch at the moment for PvE. I don't know if I missed something sublime in the second half of Wrath or something, but their PvE class balance is really, really good compared to what it was, even if it does have a few bumps with some obnoxious hotfixes.
My only real wants for 4.1 for Shaman at the moment:
1.) Magma Totem buffed for Enhancement. Magma and Fire Elemental to possibly apply Searing Flames.
2.) Lava Surge made less goofy, possibly just redesigned entirely. You could cure some mobility qualms with this. (and give Elemental Astral Shfit back)
3.) Water Shield scaling and Let's see these Resto cooldown(s).
Alex
Member
Mairu said:
Warrior DPS takes a small hit in 4.1 and they gain a new utility skill due to Inner Rage being carved down to a tiny niche and their representation drop with the mobility reduction. I don't really find any of the Warrior changes to be that big of a thing at all. I'd actually just be annoyed if I was Protection due to the new ability forcing Last Stand to go into lock out.
Alex
Member
I like Earthquake, so I'd want that, but with the changes to Fire Nova, if they don't buff Magma Totem it'll be useless and if they do buff Magma AND give Enhancement Earthquake, it'll be overpowered, so there's not much of a choice.
There's good convo on it on EJ, at the moment. EJ for Enhancement can be kind of good when it's actually taking place. I'm interested to see some math for Seasoned Winds and possibly taking it in PvE since we know it stacks with Auras now.
But yeah, this all fits back into my original stance; Shaman are pretty good at the moment, but Totems are drastically in need of an overhaul.
I don't know what I'd like to see for Totems though, mostly just them being even number of totems per element and no long duration buff totems, I suppose. Especially the latter. I realize Shaman have some small flexibility with buffs, but it's not nearly enough to justify the system.
There's good convo on it on EJ, at the moment. EJ for Enhancement can be kind of good when it's actually taking place. I'm interested to see some math for Seasoned Winds and possibly taking it in PvE since we know it stacks with Auras now.
But yeah, this all fits back into my original stance; Shaman are pretty good at the moment, but Totems are drastically in need of an overhaul.
I don't know what I'd like to see for Totems though, mostly just them being even number of totems per element and no long duration buff totems, I suppose. Especially the latter. I realize Shaman have some small flexibility with buffs, but it's not nearly enough to justify the system.
Alex
Member
It's a shame, our guild is overall really nice, it's a 10 man guild, so it's comfortable and compact, we all have a really good schedule and everything but there's this one guy who drags us down, which is is rather killer in the 10 man landscape.
He's such a nice guy, and he goes above and beyond with outside farming and help, but he's such an incredibly mediocre player for reasons we cannot understand and nothing we do to help him seems to sink in. He's a healer and routinely puts out less than half of the throughput of our other two and constantly flubs all the little bits and pieces. The fact that we made it through Nefarian with this guy is nothing short of a miracle.
We're not anything hard core. So it's not like we're demanding some crazy min/max, as if min/max was even a big thing anymore, it's just such a shitty situation to be in is all.
He's such a nice guy, and he goes above and beyond with outside farming and help, but he's such an incredibly mediocre player for reasons we cannot understand and nothing we do to help him seems to sink in. He's a healer and routinely puts out less than half of the throughput of our other two and constantly flubs all the little bits and pieces. The fact that we made it through Nefarian with this guy is nothing short of a miracle.
We're not anything hard core. So it's not like we're demanding some crazy min/max, as if min/max was even a big thing anymore, it's just such a shitty situation to be in is all.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Recruit a new healer, replace him. Done.
Alex
Member
It's only that easy if you're really mean! :lol. These guys got a bit of history, came from 25s in the prior expansion and it's easier to mask poor play in a 25 compared to now in a 10.
We are looking around now for a replacement, its been going on for too long and has worn thin.
I forgot, for these past couple months, to go back and get a Toy Train for my Shaman! I spawn from Ultima Online so if I dont have something to grief people with, I feel a little out of place.
We are looking around now for a replacement, its been going on for too long and has worn thin.
I forgot, for these past couple months, to go back and get a Toy Train for my Shaman! I spawn from Ultima Online so if I dont have something to grief people with, I feel a little out of place.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Poor players stand out in 25 mans too!
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
lol poor Magni
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