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World of Warcraft |OT2|

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Lolligag

Member
Lol, saying Rift is balanced when there hasn't been any actual lvl 50 game play in the normal community.

The only thing good about Rift is their talent system. That's a downfall for me though because I like making alts and you only have to make 4 chars to experience is all.

I could go on with my problems with the game, but this isn't the place to discuss it.
 
Lolligag said:
Lol, saying Rift is balanced when there hasn't been any actual lvl 50 game play in the normal community.

The only thing good about Rift is their talent system. That's a downfall for me though because I like making alts and you only have to make 4 chars to experience is all.

I could go on with my problems with the game, but this isn't the place to discuss it.

Discussing why you chose WoW over another game seems like a legitimate topic of discussion for the WoW OT. If you were to post in the rift ot though you would just be called out as a troll and asked to leave.

If all you have to offer is a modified game with a graphics overhaul then I'll pass. People still play 1.6 for a reason!
 

Entropia

No One Remembers
Lolligag said:
Lol, saying Rift is balanced when there hasn't been any actual lvl 50 game play in the normal community.

The only thing good about Rift is their talent system. That's a downfall for me though because I like making alts and you only have to make 4 chars to experience is all.

I could go on with my problems with the game, but this isn't the place to discuss it.

But there are numerous ways you can spec yourself from those 4 characters.

So you'd rather level 9 different classes in WoW than 4 in Rift and be able to spec them in numerous ways?


The way that WoW revamped the talent trees was good and bad. It was good because it let people play the class it's more or less meant to be played early on, but you're much more limited in what your talent choices are. It's almost impossible to spec improperly now given the limited choices you have.
 

Alex

Member
giving them battle res isn't a reason to bring them over a "pure" dps class like rogue or mage

You mean the two pure classes who are actually in the middle of the pack as opposed to the Destro Warlocks or Hunters who are around 5% ahead? Not a very good example. Unless you're in some blistering speed guild who already has Sinestra on farm, there's no way in hell a gap of 5% would even begin to effect you (and likely doesn't even then, considering what we see out of class rep in those guilds)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with DK's outside of operator error, currently. It always seems to be the people who have no idea what class balance is who chirp about it the most.

90% of the specs in this game are within 5% of each other in PvE, if this is your idea of bad class balance, you should probably give up on the medium. The only reason WoW has ever been called out for balance to begin with is because it's mathed out and metered to high hell. Any other MMO held up to this scrutiny would fall to shambles on the first glance.

I got my issues with WoW, and quite a few of them, but it ain't class balance. It's such a stupid focal point nowadays when there are bigger fish to fry.

So you'd rather level 9 different classes in WoW than 4 in Rift and be able to spec them in numerous ways?

I'd rather have the 30~ish specs with more pre-defined PvP/PvE choices, personally, for an MMO. I am fine with being largely static to PvE or PvP with a few 3-5 talent sprinkles of choice. For a single player game I want a bevy of selections I can take that largely don't over scrutinize game balance and allow me to break things at my own leisure.

In this genre, people are just going to cookie cutter and min/max things out once the harder content or end game becomes a reality, especially when/if metering becomes a big thing. I'm not saying Rift is doing it wrong, it's good for it to take it's own path where it wants, that's just how it'll likely end up if it can keep momentum and produce an actual end game that lasts.Personally, the first thing I'd do as a game designer is block all forms of meters in these games. :lol

Again, people with limited MMO experience don't realize just how insanely picked apart balance is in WoW compared to basically anything else. If you try taking the philosophy that anything with a difference of 5% or even 10-15-20%+ even of scaling difference is a bad thing, you won't be playing any video games.

J, you also need to stop posting on class balance in general. You're talking about world PvP and leveling up in a brand new game game and providing no information versus a game where you once threw a hissy because your class parsed 200 DPS less than another on a simulation where everyone was around 25,000.
 
J-Rzez said:
RIFT Balance > WoW...

I'm not saying this won't wind up being true (it could well be, although given their class structure I definitely doubt it very strongly) but get back to me on this when people are seriously progressing through RIFT endgame content. You know what they say: the proof of the pudding is in the raiding.
 

etiolate

Banned
Rift's balance will work better because people will be able to easily switch to a spec and playstyle that works well even if its not their regular PVE spec. WoW's balance problems are worsened by being stuck with a character and gear that may not match up with the game's current state of balance.
 

Ferrio

Banned
etiolate said:
Rift's balance will work better because people will be able to easily switch to a spec and playstyle that works well even if its not their regular PVE spec. WoW's balance problems are worsened by being stuck with a character and gear that may not match up with the game's current state of balance.

Technically that's not balance, just bypassing the issue.
 

mclem

Member
Balance *ought* to be "ensuring that, within reason, the spec you want to play is effective", *not* "ensuring that you have the option of playing a spec that is effective".
 
Did Heroic Halfus tonight. Our first night of attempts and we killed it in about two hours. We just killed Nef for the first time last week. We're 4th on our server now. Pretty good feeling.
 
ToyMachine228 said:
Did Heroic Halfus tonight. Our first night of attempts and we killed it in about two hours. We just killed Nef for the first time last week. We're 4th on our server now. Pretty good feeling.

Good luck in the long road that is heroics. We are doing H25 Nef right now and it sucks knowing there are still a few HARDER fights left.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
All those people that worried that Dark Pheonix would devalue Ashes of Al'ar have nothing to worry about since it looks idiotic in game.
 

markot

Banned
Angry Grimace said:
All those people that worried that Dark Pheonix would devalue Ashes of Al'ar have nothing to worry about since it looks idiotic in game.
You can barely see it >.< its stupid....
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
cuevas said:
Yeah unless you keep yourself targeted lol.
It looks even dumber when you mouseover it, because then it just shines in weird spots and looks like a weird foggy cloud with wings.

Although a I think a floating cloud (think Dragonball) would be a pretty sweet mount though.
 

Entropia

No One Remembers
Angry Grimace said:
It looks even dumber when you mouseover it, because then it just shines in weird spots and looks like a weird foggy cloud with wings.

Although a I think a floating cloud (think Dragonball) would be a pretty sweet mount though.

That actually would be awesome, that's what Al'Akir should've dropped!
 
Angry Grimace said:
It looks even dumber when you mouseover it, because then it just shines in weird spots and looks like a weird foggy cloud with wings.

Although a I think a floating cloud (think Dragonball) would be a pretty sweet mount though.

Oh hells yah, hence the reason I rock the flying carpet still.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
zmoney said:
just throwing this out there, but would anyone else enjoy playing as a Naga? maybe its just me....

Same, i just wish the naga transformation item you get from night elf digsites would last at least 10 mins, and that it wouldnt break if you cast or attack anything.
 

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
zmoney said:
just throwing this out there, but would anyone else enjoy playing as a Naga? maybe its just me....
thought this for a long time. waiting for blizz to put it in for an xpac
 

mclem

Member
It always struck me that it's a race that might well work for players. Some of the racials write themselves, they've got fairly clear 'male' and 'female' identities, and they've got significant ties through lore to the elves (which could leave them going to either faction; either a group of breakaway naga being brought back into the side of good, or a group of breakaway naga continuing to be persecuted by the elves and so are forced into the the horde.)

However, no legs. There's some awkward modelling difficulties for armour there.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
No pants or boots for nagas would make them quite weak compared to other races lol. They would need to make 2 unique armor slots just for them to balance. :p
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Nah. They'll just make them legged Naga versions... they regained a bit of their elfinity, but not all of it. It'll be like The Little Mermaid.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Zaptruder said:
Nah. They'll just make them legged Naga versions... they regained a bit of their elfinity, but not all of it. It'll be like The Little Mermaid.

Nagas with legs would be an abomination.
 
zmoney said:
just throwing this out there, but would anyone else enjoy playing as a Naga?

Naga and Ogres are pretty much the top races on the list for future inclusion, I figure -- Chris Metzen said as much in some random off-the-cuff interview, they both have lots of animations and model support already, they've both been "playable" in the Warcraft RTS games, they both have tons of lore and history backing them up....

The biggest problem with the naga is that literally no one likes them. The Alliance obviously aren't going to let in anyone who can't wear top hats, but it's not like the Horde is going to be friendly with the naga either.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Even if nagas were once night elves, they're pure evil right now. It's hard to imagine them being with the Alliance, even as traitors of Azshara. But then again, we got Death Knights, so who knows... maybe they'll invent some lollore where we got friendly nagas that can transform back and forth between Night Elf Form and Naga Form, just like Worgens. It will give them a good excuse to wear pants & boots.

I can easily see ogres being with the Horde in a future expansion, since there is already some of them in cities, just like goblins before Cataclysm.
 
Nagas can wear pants on the extra set of arms. Problem solved!

They _are_ pretty much completely evil though. We've seen good or redeemed members of pretty much every humanoid race but I can't remember ever interacting with a naga in a way that didn't mean impaling it with my polearm.

That said, I liked the naga stories in Vashj'ir, but those didn't change the fact that you played the evil side there.
 
Rexxar is the only ogre related character worth mentioning. And he's half Orc. Give me Pandarens! No seriously, I don't expect Pandarens to ever be a playable race but I would love for them to have their own neutral city in an expansion. Something like Shattrath or Dalaran but completely operated by Pandarens.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
SiegfriedFM said:
Nagas can wear pants on the extra set of arms. Problem solved!

They _are_ pretty much completely evil though. We've seen good or redeemed members of pretty much every humanoid race but I can't remember ever interacting with a naga in a way that didn't mean impaling it with my polearm.

That said, I liked the naga stories in Vashj'ir, but those didn't change the fact that you played the evil side there.

Well, there was that 1 naga in Borean Tundra that gave a quest or 2. But she still didn't like our face and it was only to hurt the Vrykuls or whatever the humans of Northrend are called.
 

mclem

Member
charlequin said:
The biggest problem with the naga is that literally no one likes them. The Alliance obviously aren't going to let in anyone who can't wear top hats, but it's not like the Horde is going to be friendly with the naga either.

The same *was* true of the Scourge, wasn't it? They found a way.
 
mclem said:
The same *was* true of the Scourge, wasn't it? They found a way.

The scourge faction split was already fully established before WoW even came out. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that there are many other races you can add really easily (dryads: "love them night elves!" ogres: "they were always there!" etc.) whereas with the naga you'd have to do a whole lot of groundwork first.
 

falastini

Member
I'd rather have the Vyrkul.

They don't have the "gear" problem, plus they have beard physics. Compare that to say... a dwarf.. whose beard is stapled to his chest. You can't go wrong with crazy vikings.

edit:
I wanna look like this dude.

476px-King_Ymiron.jpg
 

Fularu

Banned
I can see Vyrkull and Ogres as the next two horde races.

For the Alliance... mhh It could prove difficult, and no, not pandas! Maybe the Ashtongue guys? or the Kalu'ak?
 
Instead of having even bulkier playable characters to deal with, I'd prefer if vrykul were scaled down and replaced the human models.

Doesn't matter for quite some time though, next expansion should be a new class.
 

Dunlop

Member
We got to play with Cho'gal for aout 30 miutes last night (fucker dies today), does everyone have an issue with the center of the room not showing aoe effects or incoming spells?

The vids I watched had him being tanked in the middle of the room but it is really not an option because of this
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Tuskarr should have been a playable race, but that wasn't a feature of WotLK.

And personally I'd much rather see Murlocs as a playable race than Naga, although the underwater breathing capabilities of both make it hard to imagine them as playable races.
 

Fularu

Banned
Dance In My Blood said:
And personally I'd much rather see Murlocs as a playable race than Naga, although the underwater breathing capabilities of both make it hard to imagine them as playable races.

What about undead? Or was it taken away?
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Fularu said:
What about undead? Or was it taken away?
Undead get a boost to underwater breathing, but they don't live underwater anywhere. If Murlocs or Naga were a playable race I don't know how they could justify them not being able to stay underwater as long as they'd like.
 

Fularu

Banned
Dance In My Blood said:
Undead get a boost to underwater breathing, but they don't live underwater anywhere. If Murlocs or Naga were a playable race I don't know how they could justify them not being able to stay underwater as long as they'd like.
It's already not a problem for druids, I don't see why it would be a problem for the new races

There are undeads in Vashj'ir
 

mclem

Member
Dunlop said:
We got to play with Cho'gal for aout 30 miutes last night (fucker dies today), does everyone have an issue with the center of the room not showing aoe effects or incoming spells?

The vids I watched had him being tanked in the middle of the room but it is really not an option because of this

The centre of the room is actually a lift to Sinestra, although it's not used in normal. Player AoE tends not to show up on mobile terrain, which is true in this situation too. Having said that, I didn't notice the *important* things to avoid (shadow crash things, fire circles) not showing up on it; I'm pretty sure they were completely visible.
 

mclem

Member
charlequin said:
So a naga mounted on a dryad would have exactly two of every normal equipment slot.

Ah, I think here we have the Alliance equivalent of the two-headed ogre Blizzard announced a while back.
 

mclem

Member
Well, that's an interesting development.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-04-firelands-raid-will-not-be-in-wow-patch-4-1

No Firelands in 4.1. If I'm reading this right, they don't think guilds in general have got far enough through the raids yet. So we'd be looking at the 5-mans with the next raid coming later in 4.2 (they're also planning more, faster content patches - again, somewhat more akin to Vanilla).

I think this fits great for our guild, although the ones clamouring for more content won't like it. Having said that, I don't think there's all that many guilds at that stage yet.
 
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