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[charlequin]

Before people used to complain they never saw the content, now they get to do the easy content they complain hard modes aren't real content. The heroic fights are completely new experiences.

The bigger thing for me is that the number of people who are actually butting their heads against the "hard modes are too hard, easy modes are too easy" problem is still pretty small. Wowprogress shows only 17% of all raiding guilds have cleared Nefarian even once; only 25% have cleared Al'Akir, and only 33% have cleared Cho'gall.

(They also have 15% having downed heroic Halfus, so there aren't that many people clearing normal but stalling out before even trying heroic.)

Random guess of the day: I think the Zul'Aman *timed* run - assuming it returns

One of the announcements about the new dungeons specifically mentioned a timed run of Zul'Aman, I believe.

You can fault them if you'd like, but Blizzard is interested in keeping that crowd occupied.

I'm sure they are, but there's only so much you can actually do to keep your most voracious consumers of content busy. If people burn through what you put in front of them and then scoff at the idea of hard modes, even though the entire purpose of hard modes is to add something different and more prestigious for voracious players to do with themselves... well, I don't think falling over yourself to make "new" content for them as fast as possible is necessarily an efficient use of time.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Before people used to complain they never saw the content, now they get to do the easy content they complain hard modes aren't real content. The heroic fights are completely new experiences.

I can't agree with that premise at all. 95% of the guilds that raid at all have no interest in all at doing the same encounter, but harder. For the most part, the mechanics are identical, but there's like one or two more abilities and more damage. It's not anything remotely like a whole new fight.

 

[etiolate]

Spirit Link's damage redistribution mechanics makes for the interesting.

Now where's the defensive cooldown for the Shaman class?

this blue post is ridiculous:

Those are the specific reasons for why we agreed with the sentiment of those questions, and dual spec now exists in the game. It's great (kind of) that some people have found uses for it outside of that, having two slightly variant builds of the same spec for different situations, however, it's not our intent with multiple specs to encourage that type of gameplay, and thus it's not our intent to offer tri or quad or quint, etc. specs.

Obviously having an array of possible specs to choose from would be convenient for any number of reasons, but it would also encourage situations where people are using it to shift their builds around for each individual encounter or task. Those are the kinds of options that quickly stop being options, and instead become a requirement. And as they become a requirement our necessity to design and balance around it changes it from a nice convenience option to a core piece of the game design puzzle.

1. What is "that sort of gameplay" ? Fun and less painful?
2. Your encounters are not the type that would cause this hysterical rebuild-for-every encounter problem.
3. Your talent system is not dynamic enough to be tweaked that often.
4. People were spouting this same hysteria against the original argument and it took far too long for Blizz to bring in dual spec.

 

[charlequin]

95% of the guilds that raid at all have no interest in all at doing the same encounter, but harder.

Well, 87% of raiding guilds (not to even deign to mention poor unfortunates like myself who are hoping to start raiding "soon") haven't run out of encounters on normal yet, so... that doesn't seem wildly mistuned to me.

2. Your encounters are not the type that would cause this hysterical rebuild-for-every encounter problem.

Well, they're not now because people can't practically do it. There's obviously a threshold of ease where that'll change: if you can have infinite specs, and change them in five seconds like you can the two now, everyone will be expected to have an AOE spec and a single-target spec and maybe a movement spec (et al on to infinity.)

The problem IMO is that people aren't asking the right question here (or rather Blizzard isn't answering the right question), because no one actually wants to be juggling five near-identical specs for slight 1% benefits in individual fights. What people want is:

• To be able to easily play all their roles as a hybrid class
• To be able to optimize separately for PvP and PvE

Both of these are fixable with a talent system revamp that works differently from just having a "dual spec." Here's how I'd do it: give people one point set per spec (that is, as a hunter, you'd have one SV spec, one BM spec, and one MM spec -- if you want to move your MM points around, you'd have to pay for a respec) and then let people pick one of those to get split into a PvP and PvE spec. Everyone can cover all their hybrid roles, everyone can have a default respec for PvP (or, alternately, have three trees PvP specced and have one default respec for PvE), but nobody's ever shuffling points around into Improved Fartblast because Raid Boss X has a low Fart Resistance.

 

[etiolate]

I'd like to be able to have a pvp tweaked resto and ele spec to go along with a pve oriented one, same for Enhance. They have designed the talent trees in a way that splits pvp talents from pve ones, but don't give players an option to use both since the second spec is normally spent on a second role. It punishes players who learn their entire class.

I still don't buy that moultiple specs would result in encounter by encounter tweaking, but even if that tiny change started to occur it is just another way to approach a fight.

 

[ToyMachine228]

I guess my final point is this..When you play a game that's not WoW...Would you rather play through the same game on a higher difficulty level, or have a sequel right in your hands packed full of awesome new stuff? New content is what keeps players coming back. Regardless of what kind of player you are and what your skill level is.

 

[charlequin]

I'd like to be able to have a pvp tweaked resto and ele spec to go along with a pve oriented one, same for Enhance.

Well, the way I figured it with what I described, you could have all three specs for PvE and one for PvP, or all three for PvP and one for PvE, or I guess you could juggle it and have, say, elemental and resto PvE specs and enhance and resto PvP specs.

I still don't buy that moultiple specs would result in encounter by encounter tweaking

I honestly can't see a scenario where this wouldn't happen if it were literally a matter of picking one out of an infinite number of allowable specs from a list. You'd start to get threads on the official forums about the noobs who didn't swap their AOE spec for their single-target turret spec on Fight X or their movement spec on Fight Y. It would just be annoying. I don't think there are enough differences between different builds of the same spec to put up with that. In a game like RIFT where the idea is that you're switching between wildly different builds all the time it might be more workable IMO.

I guess my final point is this..When you play a game that's not WoW...Would you rather play through the same game on a higher difficulty level, or have a sequel right in your hands packed full of awesome new stuff? New content is what keeps players coming back. Regardless of what kind of player you are and what your skill level is.

I'm not saying it isn't, but the people who buy the game on Day 1 and rush forward to the end boss always have to wait longer for the sequel! If 87% of raiding players haven't beaten the hardest boss in the current normal modes, I don't think it's wildly unreasonable to use them as your measuring stick for whether people are ready for the sequel rather than the top 13%. Hard modes are there because those people plow through the game so fast that there's no good way to satisfy their desire for new content; everyone knows the HMs are recycled, but it's recycling that provides something else to do instead of nothing.

(Though, again, I'm confident this is really a "raid ain't ready yet" issue that's just being described as a progression issue.)

 

[mclem]

(Though, again, I'm confident this is really a "raid ain't ready yet" issue that's just being described as a progression issue.)

This does raise an interesting question: are there any records of what proportion of guilds had completed X tier when X+1 tier was released in the past? Blizzard have said it was definitely too low for the Ulduar -> ToC transition, so maybe that's the benchmark to work to.

I wonder if more guilds had done Yogg when ToC was released than have done Nef/Cho'gall/Al'akir now.

 

[charlequin]

This does raise an interesting question: are there any records of what proportion of guilds had completed X tier when X+1 tier was released in the past?

I don't know when sites like Wowprogress really started to crop up (given that I didn't play at all from 2007 until resubbing right before Cata.) I know that the stat that Blizzard liked to cite, and which was a major factor in basically all their raid-design philosophies afterwards, is that less than 1% of players ever saw the inside of Naxx 40 while it was progression content.

Anyway, I think Wrath would really be the main period this would be worth checking on -- during TBC they were still doing the "full progression" design where you couldn't really bootstrap up to future raids without clearing and farming earlier ones, so the real points of interest for me would be Naxx -> Ulduar, Ulduar -> ToC, and ToC -> ICC.

EDIT: Not exactly what you were asking about, but as of May 2010 less than 10% of raiding guilds had killed Lich King on normal.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I can't agree with that premise at all. 95% of the guilds that raid at all have no interest in all at doing the same encounter, but harder. For the most part, the mechanics are identical, but there's like one or two more abilities and more damage. It's not anything remotely like a whole new fight.

Perhaps I should have said that the hard modes are what the encounter should actually be like, it should be a challenge. I think guilds fail because they look at it like, oh we just need more gear and lets not bother adjusting to the new mechanics since it's basically the same fight. Then they call it imba and want the new easy content to get new purps.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Perhaps I should have said that the hard modes are what the encounter should actually be like, it should be a challenge. I think guilds fail because they look at it like, oh we just need more gear and lets not bother adjusting to the new mechanics since it's basically the same fight. Then they call it imba and want the new easy content to get new purps.

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective entirely. 99% of players playing a single player game don't go back and play the game over again on "hard" difficulty. WoW is not different.

This is entirely premised on the theory that normal modes present no challenge, and second, most guilds don't fail at it for that reason, they just don't attempt it because nobody wants to do the same shit but harder.

 

[Alex]

Single player games aren't multiplayer games, though. Hard mode tiering is the entirety of progression in lots of multiplayer RPGs and I've always found it to be a very good thing, which is why I was so pleased with they implemented it into WoW.

It's a good method of alternative content generation within this genre and works as a great stop-gap while giving the challenge seekers what they want. I'd love it if more facets of WoW had difficulty levels to choose from. Raiding is really fun because it's so mechanically engaging and challenging, it really lets all of their systems sing, which are still sadly so stunted while leveling.

I'd also say the massive majority of people who are so casual that they aren't considering hard modes are probably very unlikely to be Nefarian killing guilds currently, anyway. My overall opinion on this mostly coincides with how long the wait for 4.2 is. If it's reasonable, then it'll wind up a good thing for our guild who is just now starting the hard modes.

 

[mclem]

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective entirely. 99% of players playing a single player game don't go back and play the game over again on "hard" difficulty. WoW is not different.

But they're perfectly fine to go back and play the game over again on the *same* difficulty on a weekly basis? Or do they just carry the lockout forward, week-in-week-out?

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

This does raise an interesting question: are there any records of what proportion of guilds had completed X tier when X+1 tier was released in the past? Blizzard have said it was definitely too low for the Ulduar -> ToC transition, so maybe that's the benchmark to work to.

I wonder if more guilds had done Yogg when ToC was released than have done Nef/Cho'gall/Al'akir now.

I know my middling/high tier guild at the time was at Yogg (but hadn't downed him) and had been through FL+4 and XT hard mode at the time ToC was released. Technically, we were only halfway done with the content, if you include hard modes. (This was 25 btw). We probably could have had Yogg down before ToC released, but since Ulduar was one long instance, many weeks we just never got to him, or cleared and had minimal time to work on the encounter.

Now, I'm sure that Firelands could use more work in the first place, but I'm glad it's being delayed. The guild I was in was at 9/12 normal 3 to 4 weeks ago (25 man) and as far as I know, still hasn't downed any of the end-bosses.

Part of the slow progress is that this tier is genuinely more difficult than many of the raids in Wrath, with regular modes feeling like some of the easier hard modes in Ulduar or ICC.

The other main component to the slowness is just that it took awhile after the release of the expansion to mobilize the player-base and build up momentum, first to level, and then to acquire gear. Part of this is due to the increased difficulty of heroics which didn't drop any epic gear. The initial stepping stones to getting into raiding were further apart, requiring more skill to fill the gap than in Wrath.

Anyway, I think this is an interesting topic, so I'll read further discussion.

 

[mclem]

We probably could have had Yogg down before ToC released, but since Ulduar was one long instance, many weeks we just never got to him, or cleared and had minimal time to work on the encounter.

That's one of the things I'm loving about the "two smaller raid instances" model. We can get onto progression content for the week after just half a raid, if we have a good first half. It's a really pleasant change to be pushing a new boss on Wednesday or Thursday rather than only getting to it late on Monday.


Edit: I didn't even think of using my own experiences as a benchmark! Looks like I finished Uld-25 on 10/08/2009. I thought we did Uld-10 significantly earlier, but we actually only made the kill a few weeks earlier at 25/07/2009. Looking at patch details, it looks like TotC was added on 04/08/2009. So we pretty much cleared Ulduar *just* as the next instance came out.

 

[J-Rzez]

(Though, again, I'm confident this is really a "raid ain't ready yet" issue that's just being described as a progression issue.)

Pretty much. They're lying again, because they were dragging their feet on content they were working on before cata launch. Talented devs, absolutely, but people give them FAR too much credit. Maybe if we were talking ab out old blizzard, sure, but this isn't blizzard of old. This is the money-hungry one that doesn't care anymore.

 

[Aeris130]

Plowed through Black Temple for the first time tonight, and wow. The sheer scope of that place puts the current raids to shame.

 

[Mairu]

I'm glad raids arent a top priority for me like some people, or else i would be angry too if i was in a guild doing all heroic mode bosses. My casual guild just started on Bastion of Twilight, so there is no hurry for me thankfully. We all took our time gearing from heroics, seeing all the new content with alts, lvling professions and stuff.

And i sure am happy that i didnt get to start raiding right in december in week #2 or 3 like the hardcore raiders, or else i would have miss so much of the other stuff(hell, i still havent seen most of the new stuff on the Horde side) and would be cursing at Blizzard for being too slow on new raid content, just because i was one of those players who only care about getting the top gear as fast as possible. I dont understand these kind of raiders, what's the hurry?

You've never played a video game that you wanted to clear through as fast as possible?

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Well, duh. This news shouldn't be read as them pushing back Firelands (which, average guild progress be damned, they would squeeze out if it was ready) but rather as them pulling forward ZA and ZG to get something out sooner.

Four months from now until a new raid tier seems pretty crazy, though. That'd be seven months without a raid update.

Best case scenario. Something had to have been changed though; putting out ALL that new art for Firelands then making it look like a wait. If it turns out to be a wait, "don't look good."

Still, it's reused instances if it is a delay tactic. I can't speak for others, but I "paid" for ZG in 2005 and ZA in 2007. Which brings me to:

Yeah but why do people expect content when they haven't even seen half the current content? I don't get this.

Follow the oft misused word to the answer.

1. What is "that sort of gameplay"

Smoke and mirrors bullshit to cover inelegant balancing.

 

[etiolate]

Smoke and mirrors bullshit to cover inelegant balancing.

that gameplay is smoke and mirrors or that excuse is?

 

[Ferrio]

Hope hakkar has the plague bug again..... one of the coolest things ot happen in a MMO ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NrhyLbqnxk

 

[mclem]

Hope hakkar has the plague bug again..... one of the coolest things ot happen in a MMO ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NrhyLbqnxk

Uh...

Spoiler

Hakkar's a good guy now. Well, kinda. He's on your side at a crucial moment, anyway.

As I said, this is a *new instance* in *old terrain*.

 

[Ferrio]

Uh...

Spoiler

Hakkar's a good guy now. Well, kinda. He's on your side at a crucial moment, anyway.

As I said, this is a *new instance* in *old terrain*.

BAH, I quit after BCs launch, didn't know.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

that gameplay is smoke and mirrors or that excuse is?

The excuse. I mean, there is some wiggle room in specs, if minor. The way they stated that made it sound as if the possibility of that was wrong, no matter how much horseshit was flyin'.

 

[Slavik81]

I have WoW on my desktop... What's the fastest way to install WoW on my laptop?

 

[ToyMachine228]

Pretty much. They're lying again, because they were dragging their feet on content they were working on before cata launch. Talented devs, absolutely, but people give them FAR too much credit. Maybe if we were talking ab out old blizzard, sure, but this isn't blizzard of old. This is the money-hungry one that doesn't care anymore.

Well, yes and no. I think Blizzard is absolutely one of the best developers out there. They're really one only companies who care about quality more than money and ironically, they're rolling in money because of that. That said, my concern is that the "A-Team" at Blizzard has all moved on to Titan and Diablo III. My concerns started with Cataclysm basically having no direction. Content wise was the redesign of Azeroth needed and handled well? Yes, questing is much easier now. But as far as the direction of the content...There isn't one at all. And 4.1 seems to basically confirm my fear that Cataclysm is an expansion that's being mailed in thematically. It seems like they're just throwing random content out there to keep players appeased. My only hope is that something great lies ahead. But I don't think it'll be this expansion.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective entirely. 99% of players playing a single player game don't go back and play the game over again on "hard" difficulty. WoW is not different.

This is entirely premised on the theory that normal modes present no challenge, and second, most guilds don't fail at it for that reason, they just don't attempt it because nobody wants to do the same shit but harder.

You are.

"99%" of players playing a single player game don't kill the same boss over and over and over.

WOW is all about killing the same bosses over and over and over on normal mode.

Then you suddenly scoff at the idea replaying them in a hard mode because of X reason.

Makes no sense what so ever. You do it for better loot. The game is all about loot as well.

To be like "99%" of the other single player gamers then we should only have to kill a boss once. But... then... there'd be no reason to play it daily for a year+. Raiders always need a challenge for better loot. Hard modes, new tier, whatever.

Hard modes =/= console harder modes.

Edited.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

I have WoW on my desktop... What's the fastest way to install WoW on my laptop?

You have two choices: streaming client or Cataclysm DVD install (which I believe works just like the Wrath DVD in which it installs everything.) Both will take a while due to patches and connection speed.

 

[Alex]

Well, yes and no. I think Blizzard is absolutely one of the best developers out there. They're really one only companies who care about quality more than money and ironically, they're rolling in money because of that. That said, my concern is that the "A-Team" at Blizzard has all moved on to Titan and Diablo III. My concerns started with Cataclysm basically having no direction. Content wise was the redesign of Azeroth needed and handled well? Yes, questing is much easier now. But as far as the direction of the content...There isn't one at all. And 4.1 seems to basically confirm my fear that Cataclysm is an expansion that's being mailed in thematically. It seems like they're just throwing random content out there to keep players appeased. My only hope is that something great lies ahead. But I don't think it'll be this expansion.

The direction for Cataclysm is the resurfacing of Azeroth on the whole as a focal point, with the aftermath of the cataclysm seeping in, like classic it's got a wide scope and isn't as focused on any one conflict. it doesn't need to be any more thematic than that as and I don't understand what the issue is with it, I've never actually heard anyone talk about it but you, Toymachine.

They did actually say though, that next expansion they'd be using a new continent and would be a more central theme again.

Personally, I want a South Seas expansion where 50% of the zones are underwater to drive the crazy people who don't like the best zone in the game, Vashj'ir, totally nuts.

Edit: They just said in a post on the boards they're planning some new thingy in 4.1 called Guild Challenges. One of the CMs said theyre making a post about it soon.

 

[Bisnic]

Personally, I want a South Seas expansion where 50% of the zones are underwater to drive the crazy people who don't like the best zone in the game, Vashj'ir, totally nuts.

Can't wait for an eventual Abyssal Breach raid where we gotta fight a corrupted Neptulon. Underwater. While swimming.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Makes no sense what so ever. You do it for better loot. The game is all about loot as well.

So 99% of the community is wrong? They're not wrong and you're not wrong, it's just a different approach to playing and enjoying the game. And there are many different approaches and reasons people play WoW. Blizzard has to attempt to cater to all of them. Which is by no means easy.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You are.

"99%" of players playing a single player game don't kill the same boss over and over and over.

WOW is all about killing the same bosses over and over and over on normal mode.

Then you suddenly scoff at the idea replaying them in a hard mode because of X reason.

Makes no sense what so ever. You do it for better loot. The game is all about loot as well.

To be like "99%" of the other single player gamers then we should only have to kill a boss once. But... then... there'd be no reason to play it daily for a year+. Raiders always need a challenge for better loot. Hard modes, new tier, whatever.

Hard modes =/= console harder modes.

Edited.

Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that what you're saying is true (which I don't think it is), it has almost nothing to do with the original point which was that no players consider heroic modes to be different content.

 

[charlequin]

So, for anyone keeping track, they're still making Soulstones into a combat rez in 4.1 (exactly like I said) and 4.1 is them putting out finished content early because Firelands isn't done yet (also exactly like I said.)

Personally, I want a South Seas expansion where 50% of the zones are underwater to drive the crazy people who don't like the best zone in the game, Vashj'ir, totally nuts.

I also want this because all the coolest places in Azeroth that are either mostly or completely nonexistent in WoW (Kezan, the Lost Isles, Zandalar, etc.) are out in the ocean.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

So 99% of the community is wrong? They're not wrong and you're not wrong, it's just a different approach to playing and enjoying the game. And there are many different approaches and reasons people play WoW. Blizzard has to attempt to cater to all of them. Which is by no means easy.

There's only one approach to dungeons and raids. Replaying the bosses over and over for gear. Hard modes fits right into this gameplay. Every other genre of game doesn't require you to kill the same boss for month. Thus, comparing wow hard modes to console single player hard modes is ridiculous.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that what you're saying is true (which I don't think it is), it has almost nothing to do with the original point which was that no players consider heroic modes to be different content.

You said you can't agree with the statement that heroics are a new experience.
-Experience =/= content. Normal 5 man dungeons are a very different experience from heroic 5 man dungeons.

You also said people aren't interested in replaying the same content in a harder mode.

-If that was true people wouldn't want to do heroic 5 man dungeons after normal mode 5 man dungeons. There's a point where something is on farm and you don't get gear up grades. Better gear motivates people. The only way to get better gear is to do the harder mode giving a new experience. And, again, replaying content in general is a major part of wow's gameplay unlike NON-MMO games.

The actual issue is probably after spending months on the normal mode bosses people may are just sick of seeing the models. No other genre forces you to re-kill a boss, in whatever difficulty, for months.

Maybe resets should have shorter cooldowns. Maybe more loot should drop to get people into heroics faster.

 

[J-Rzez]

Personally, I want a South Seas expansion where 50% of the zones are underwater to drive the crazy people who don't like the best zone in the game, Vashj'ir, totally nuts.

I'm not even joking when I say that if they pulled something like this that they absolutely would lose a massive chunk of their gamer base. I know this for a fact for how half-baked it plays, and how many people despised Vash, which was the worst zone in any mmo ever made.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You said you can't agree with the statement that heroics are a new experience.
-Experience =/= content. Normal 5 man dungeons are a very different experience from heroic 5 man dungeons.

You also said people aren't interested in replaying the same content in a harder mode.

-If that was true people wouldn't want to do heroic 5 man dungeons after normal mode 5 man dungeons. There's a point where something is on farm and you don't get gear up grades. Better gear motivates people. The only way to get better gear is to do the harder mode giving a new experience. And, again, replaying content in general is a major part of wow's gameplay unlike NON-MMO games.

The actual issue is probably after spending months on the normal mode bosses people may are just sick of seeing the models. No other genre forces you to re-kill a boss, in whatever difficulty, for months.

Maybe resets should have shorter cooldowns. Maybe more loot should drop to get people into heroics faster.

Yeah, except if that was true, people would actually be doing those hard modes when they had access to them; but I think people with mindsets about heroic modes like Jrez's are more common than you think.

The other problem with this argument is that it's premised on them even having access to hard mode; which requires you killed Nefarian or Cho'gall which like 10% of the raiding population has done. Most guilds will down the last boss of an expansion close enough to a patch that they aren't going to beat their heads on hard mode of the old stuff.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm not even joking when I say that if they pulled something like this that they absolutely would lose a massive chunk of their gamer base. I know this for a fact for how half-baked it plays, and how many people despised Vash, which was the worst zone in any mmo ever made.

I don't think they have the stones to do anything like that.

I didn't *hate* Vash, but it was a gimmick zone for sure.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

In regards to re-killing bosses for loot, it really depends. Personally, I just simply like executing encounters. It only gets tedious for me if the raid is wiping dozens of times on something with little to no progression in the encounter (I'm looking at you H Northrend Beasts [though that encounter was a bitch for a variety of reasons!]).

I mean, after an initial kill, you're usually spending no more than 10-15 minutes in a given week playing out a specific raid boss; that's not a lot of time, and I really savor it.

As a tank especially (if applying to a new guild), getting into the swing of things after the rest of a raid has killed a boss you haven't before is really difficult a lot of times, since you're expected to know (or learn very, very quickly) a boss that they may have spent hours learning. This can really be a killer since I've found in my time playing WoW that Experience + Gear is what constitutes 80%+ of what a "good" tank is to other people, compared to the other two roles which don't require as much of either to be as effective.

I'd say that a lot of this derives from the fact that learning tanking is really an arduous process that is self-taught. There aren't role models to follow around, as with dps and healers, and in encounters that do require 2-3 tanks, they often have different jobs.


I went on a bit of a tangent there, albeit an important one in regards to the state of tanking. Sometimes I've considered hanging in the towel on tanking and just switching to DPS on my main, but it's hard to allow myself to do so knowing that I have all this experience (many days /played worth) in a role that many can't or don't want to perform, or can't execute as well as I could due to lack of experience.

 

[thatbox]

Plowed through Black Temple for the first time tonight, and wow. The sheer scope of that place puts the current raids to shame.

So much yes.

I have WoW on my desktop... What's the fastest way to install WoW on my laptop?

Copy the folder over. Done.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective entirely. 99% of players playing a single player game don't go back and play the game over again on "hard" difficulty. WoW is not different.

This is entirely premised on the theory that normal modes present no challenge, and second, most guilds don't fail at it for that reason, they just don't attempt it because nobody wants to do the same shit but harder.

if 99% of the population is playing a single player game then there is something wrong, this is an MMO.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'm not even joking when I say that if they pulled something like this that they absolutely would lose a massive chunk of their gamer base. I know this for a fact for how half-baked it plays, and how many people despised Vash, which was the worst zone in any mmo ever made.

ow, my brain

 

[Angry Grimace]

if 99% of the population is playing a single player game then there is something wrong, this is an MMO.

...what?

 

[MattPeters]

So our guild is currently 9/13 on heroic 10m. It really feels like a job sometimes. Lol. It's so punishing, it almost breaks moral sometimes after so many attempts with little to show for it. (ps, go to hell nefarion)

So we called off progression this weekend, and decided to have some fun with random other stuff. Tonight we did heroic ICC, and actually had a lot of fun, lots of joking around. Sunday night we may do sunwell plateau, or black temple. Guess it depends what legendary we want

Any others do stuff like this when their raiding has hit a wall? It's oddly fun going back to old content sometimes.

 

[mclem]

I'm not even joking when I say that if they pulled something like this that they absolutely would lose a massive chunk of their gamer base. I know this for a fact for how half-baked it plays, and how many people despised Vash, which was the worst zone in any mmo ever made.

God forbid they ever ask the players to step out of their comfort zone.

 

[ToyMachine228]

I'm not even joking when I say that if they pulled something like this that they absolutely would lose a massive chunk of their gamer base. I know this for a fact for how half-baked it plays, and how many people despised Vash, which was the worst zone in any mmo ever made.

My problem with Vash is that it's far too long. I didn't mind the "zone" itself, adds some variety to the game. But the fact that there's like 180 quests there make it drag and feel endless and it loses it's fun factor. I've skipped it on both of the alts I've leveled. Did it on my first 80-85 trip and don't really intend to do it again.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

My problem with Vash is that it's far too long. I didn't mind the "zone" itself, adds some variety to the game. But the fact that there's like 180 quests there make it drag and feel endless and it loses it's fun factor. I've skipped it on both of the alts I've leveled. Did it on my first 80-85 trip and don't really intend to do it again.

All in one big line chained together by shitty, buggy cinemas.

 

[Angry Grimace]

God forbid they ever ask the players to step out of their comfort zone.

People don't play games to step out of their comfort zone.

It's not work or exercise.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

...what?

I have no idea what I was trying to say, stupid drunk post.

Your post is wrong though. Way more than 1% of people go play a game on harder difficulties. Some people enjoy the challenge. I love being challenged in games, I'm not going to enjoy playing bayonetas 1 button mode.

 

[Yazus]

Well...

My guild and me have cleared 12/12 Normal Mode... I tho have yet to kill Ascendant Council and Cho'Gall.

We have also done 2/13 HC (Halfus/Magmaw) so yeah, I think that its like we have just starded really...

With 4.1 out I will be able to fill my non epic slots with 353 items and this will be the same for all the other raiders and then we will probably be stronger for Heroic Raiding...!

I myself like this change. And I really really want Blizzard to make 4.2 Firelands/Caverns of time War of the Ancients.
Fireland's 5 bosses only is a lackluster for a so waited patch...!