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[mclem]

Ghostlands is now flyable in 4.1.

I was always kinda amazed they didn't just join that whole peninsula to the world in 4.0 and be done with it. Same - to a slightly lesser extent - with the draenei islands. Given the entire planet - pretty much - was getting a revamp anyway, do they really *need* to segregate the TBC 1-20 zones off from Vanilla players any more?

 

[Swag]

How are Disc Priests currently, thinking of getting back into the game and always wanted to play a Disc Priest.

 

[Bisnic]

I was always kinda amazed they didn't just join that whole peninsula to the world in 4.0 and be done with it. Same - to a slightly lesser extent - with the draenei islands. Given the entire planet - pretty much - was getting a revamp anyway, do they really *need* to segregate the TBC 1-20 zones off from Vanilla players any more?

Their excuse is that no one ever goes there as a high lvl, so there was no need to make those zones flyable and fix all the zones so there would be no graphical glitchs and crazy stuff, mountains cut in half for example, visible from the sky.

I'm going to guess the only reason Ghostlands will be flyable is because of the new Zulaman, or else they would have change Eversong Woods and the Isle of Queldanas too.

 

[Dunlop]

How are Disc Priests currently, thinking of getting back into the game and always wanted to play a Disc Priest.

They are currently getting nerfed to shit. I'm at a loss reading the new patch notes that even Power Word Barrier is getting the nerfbat. I'm not one to cry about nerfs normally but the recent random nerfing of priest abilities combined with giving DK's a battle rez is starting to be a bit much

 

[Swag]

They are currently getting nerfed to shit. I'm at a loss reading the new patch notes that even Power Word Barrier is getting the nerfbat. I'm not one to cry about nerfs normally but the recent random nerfing of priest abilities combined with giving DK's a battle rez is starting to be a bit much

Although this can be a pain I can't share your sentiments cause I don't know how balanced disc priests are, I remember reading a while ago that they had mana problems, although it seems that this is something all healers have?

I've been out of the loop for a while.

 

[AzureNightmare]

Fucking hell, Warriors are getting nerfed. I want to find the schmuck who is making the warrior class design decisions this time around and slap some sense back into him. This back and forth bullshit is getting old fast.

 

[Yoshichan]

:lol

 

[AzureNightmare]

:lol

image

Do you mind not making mention of that clusterfuck of an MMO?

 

[Swag]

Do you mind not making mention of that clusterfuck of an MMO?

Game isn't that bad `-`

 

[Yoshichan]

Do you mind not making mention of that clusterfuck of an MMO?

Did Rift kill anyone in your family?

I posted the pic because it's appropriate (as a WoW player) to see how much/what developers need to do to actually reach the audience. WoW is crazy huge.

 

[Dunlop]

Although this can be a pain I can't share your sentiments cause I don't know how balanced disc priests are, I remember reading a while ago that they had mana problems, although it seems that this is something all healers have?

I've been out of the loop for a while.

They are still an ok spec, I'm actually a holy priest normally that ran a disc spec due to raid composition. But the last month Bliz has just been doing knee jerk reaction changes to our class and it is getting on my nerves.

There are test servers for a reason

 

[TheExodu5]

Do you mind not making mention of that clusterfuck of an MMO?

That 'clusterfuck' of an MMO is better than WoW in many ways. It's a great game that many WoW fans should enjoy.

 

[Dunlop]

That 'clusterfuck' of an MMO is better than WoW in many ways. It's a great game that many WoW fans should enjoy.

yeah, I was impressed during the beta it seemed to solve the public quest idea of warhammer that went horribly wrong. I wish they had kept the collision detection that was in warhammer..which made PVP fucking awesome (in scenerios anyways)

I have a couple of buddies that are on it and loving it. I just can't get myself to pay 2 monthly subs

 

[Swag]

They are still an ok spec, I'm actually a holy priest normally that ran a disc spec due to raid composition. But the last month Bliz has just been doing knee jerk reaction changes to our class and it is getting on my nerves.

There are test servers for a reason

Well thanks for the answer, I would've just downloaded the PTR client but I'm not able to access me computer this week. Figured it'd be easier to just ask, sorry.

 

[Dunlop]

Well thanks for the answer, I would've just downloaded the PTR client but I'm not able to access me computer this week. Figured it'd be easier to just ask, sorry.

lol, that wasnt directed at you, these forums are for asking questions. I meant the developers are supposed to use the data from the test server to make smart changes to the classes

 

[Boken]

At least they can pummel in any stance now. Honestly, as a mage, having to choose to blink the charge or the throwdown was pretty rough going. They just want charge as a gap closer and not as another stun it seems. Not in the notes is that charge no longer shares DR (or else that'd be retarded).

I find the PW: Barrier nerf pretty random... It's almost as potent as Divine Guardian now. However, Disc priests are still pretty good despite it because even with the mana cost increase, shields are still pretty damn good its just that some fight mechanics aren't as good for shields when compared to direct healing.

I don't know why people would hate the DK bres change, it should have no real effect on anything... Warlocks might feel a little sad though.

Anyway, should probably remember that these are PTR notes before you flip out. I'm patiently waiting for any mage changes because we need real help right now in PvP : (

 

[mclem]

Their excuse is that no one ever goes there as a high lvl, so there was no need to make those zones flyable and fix all the zones so there would be no graphical glitchs and crazy stuff, mountains cut in half for example, visible from the sky.

I'm going to guess the only reason Ghostlands will be flyable is because of the new Zulaman, or else they would have change Eversong Woods and the Isle of Queldanas too.

It's not just flyability that sprung to mind, really, so much as the slight weirdness of having to go through a portal just to get to a chunk of terrain that ought to be part of the world. Why not be able to swim there from Tirisfal? Even now, I presume it's still segregated so you're going to have to fly to the portal and then from the portal rather than just flying directly to ZA.

 

[Alex]

The only problem with Disc is an identity crisis. It needs some legitimate new features to be compelling gameplay-wise, to me at least. In terms of actual balance, it's still top end, the nerfs are pretty irrelevant to that and people acting outraged over them just kinda blow me away. Just goes to show, again and again, most of the community doesn't actually give a shit about class balance; they give a shit about their class being as overpowered as humanly possible.

 

[Bisnic]

It's not just flyability that sprung to mind, really, so much as the slight weirdness of having to go through a portal just to get to a chunk of terrain that ought to be part of the world. Why not be able to swim there from Tirisfal? Even now, I presume it's still segregated so you're going to have to fly to the portal and then from the portal rather than just flying directly to ZA.

Yeah, when i try to fly to the north of both Plaguelands, i just hit an invisible wall. I'd be surprised if that invisible wall will be gone in 4.1. After all, Ghostland is still part of the "Outland server".


By the way, i hate how they nerfed Spell Reflection cooldown. I love that spell on my prot warrior against trash with casters. Not to mention the silence part of Shield Bash that im losing(again, another great tool for forcing caster npcs to get in melee range), all i'll have now is an interrupt with Pummel.

Is this again nerfs due to PVP? Sigh.

 

[charlequin]

I like bringing back the Felhunter, presuming that it actually scales past the Succubus.

Me too! Note that I don't play a warlock, I just fucking hate it when people have the annoying succubus out in dungeons.

I was always kinda amazed they didn't just join that whole peninsula to the world in 4.0 and be done with it.

Silvermoon's geometry isn't designed for flyover and those zones are segregated out into different servers, I guess. I assume this change means they'll be slowly rolling all these zones into flyability but it'll probably take until they can actually redesign Silvermoon.

The only problem with Disc is an identity crisis. It needs some legitimate new features to be compelling gameplay-wise, to me at least. In terms of actual balance, it's still top end, the nerfs are pretty irrelevant to that and people acting outraged over them just kinda blow me away. Just goes to show, again and again, most of the community doesn't actually give a shit about class balance; they give a shit about their class being as overpowered as humanly possible.

This is obvious from reading comments on any new release of patch notes on the Blizzard forums or MMOC. Regardless of the content, scope, or actual effect of a given change, people are immediately decrying even extremely minor nerfs (or nerfs packaged in with larger buffs) as intolerable, evidence that no one at Blizzard has ever played the class in question, a good reason to immediately unsub, etc. etc.

I mean, maybe my perspective is skewed here. My main is a shaman; our class has lots of legacy design issues, but the changes to the class since 4.0.1 have been measured and sensible, and improved the weaker specs in very concrete ways. My wife's main is a hunter; when their first batch of SV nerfs was wildly excessive, they scaled them back while improving the other two specs in a sensible way, and since then they've kept the class on a pretty even keel.

I certainly get it if, say, druid players are feeling a bit wary at the moment, or if the five guys who still play rogues are getting antsy, but overall PvE balance in this expansion has been quite good and I kind of doubt PvP balance is, like, worse than normal.

Is this again nerfs due to PVP? Sigh.

Yep. If you go over to MMOC right now you can read posts from casters complaining that the new patch notes will make it impossible for them to ever win against warriors in arena situations immediately following posts from warriors complaining that the new patch notes will make it impossible for them to ever win against casters.

 

[Dunlop]

Just goes to show, again and again, most of the community doesn't actually give a shit about class balance; they give a shit about their class being as overpowered as humanly possible.

while true to some levels, i the case of the priest be it Holy, Disc, or shadow each spec has had major modifications since Cata went live which should have been ironed out on the PTR before ever hitting the live servers.

I'm geared enough keep on bubble spamming if that was my desire, the problem is for up and coming priests that are not there is not enough utility in Disc. These are not measured changes that are being done.

 

[Bisnic]

Silvermoon's geometry isn't designed for flyover and those zones are segregated out into different servers, I guess. I assume this change means they'll be slowly rolling all these zones into flyability but it'll probably take until they can actually redesign Silvermoon.

Why would they need to redesign Silvermoon? All they need to do is to add some roofs and walls where it was previously impossible to see, like they did with the other cities.

Yep. If you go over to MMOC right now you can read posts from casters complaining that the new patch notes will make it impossible for them to ever win against warriors in arena situations immediately following posts from warriors complaining that the new patch notes will make it impossible for them to ever win against casters.

I hate PVP sometimes, i don't care much about that part of the game, yet we keep getting nerfs that affects PVE because of all the PVP players complaining.

 

[Dunlop]

I hate PVP sometimes, i don't care much about that part of the game, yet we keep getting nerfs that affects PVE because of all the PVP players complaining.

I honestly wish that bliz would create PVP trees to completely seperate them from teh PVE ones. It is utterly impossible to maintain balance in the current system

 

[mclem]

Why would they need to redesign Silvermoon? All they need to do is to add some roofs and walls where it was previously impossible to see, like they did with the other cities.

I wonder how far you can see from the very border of Ghostlands with max view-distance. I can see right across Dun Morogh when I leave Ironforge, although I seem to recall the TBC 1-20 zones being a bit larger.

 

[Rapstah]

I wonder how far you can see from the very border of Ghostlands with max view-distance. I can see right across Dun Morogh when I leave Ironforge, although I seem to recall the TBC 1-20 zones being a bit larger.

There's, at least now, fog preventing you from seeing very far at all independent of view distance setting.

EDIT: Oh, into the Plaguelands at least. Sorry if you were talking about into Ghostlands.

 

[Bisnic]

I wonder how far you can see from the very border of Ghostlands with max view-distance. I can see right across Dun Morogh when I leave Ironforge, although I seem to recall the TBC 1-20 zones being a bit larger.

Using the FP from Queldanas to Zulaman, you can get a pretty good view of Silvermoon from the sea, that huge tower look pretty cool when you get near the city.

 

[charlequin]

Why would they need to redesign Silvermoon? All they need to do is to add some roofs and walls where it was previously impossible to see

Why are you disagreeing with yourself?

I agree that all they need to do is cover up parts of the city (and probably redesign a lot of the geography immediately outside it), it's just that that takes time whereas enabling flying in Ghostlands is probably more or less free.

 

[Angry Grimace]

shards are simply a broken mechanic that blizz didn't give enough thought and time to. it needs a total overhaul to make it relevant.

it'd be cool if an empowered drain life/soul refreshed all your active dots or added additional time to them the longer you channel the spell.

Shards work perfectly for Destro.

 

[Bisnic]

Why are you disagreeing with yourself?

I agree that all they need to do is cover up parts of the city (and probably redesign a lot of the geography immediately outside it), it's just that that takes time whereas enabling flying in Ghostlands is probably more or less free.

Sorry, by "redisigning" i thought you meant something like Orgrimmar or the north of SW and its keep.

 

[charlequin]

Sorry, by "redisigning" i thought you meant something like Orgrimmar or the north of SW and its keep.

No, they only actually changed the layout of Orgrimmar and Stormwind, but they still had to rework the geometry on all the other cities to make them flyable. From what I understand, every other part of the BC starting zones is actually all set (they're complete regardless of what direction you look at them from) but they'd have to put this sort of effort into Silvermoon before they could turn it on elsewhere.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

The DK battle-rez news is interesting, to say the least. It is true that raise ally is hardly worth using in its current state - I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've actually used it in a raid environment.

Hopefully they do toss in a glyph to make it better, like rebirth has. We'll see how it turns out.

I mean, it's not like we needed it, but a little extra utility is nice since we don't have a CC.

 

[dave is ok]

I like how they were going to give battle rez to warlocks and then just took it away and gave it to DKs

 

[charlequin]

I like how they were going to give battle rez to warlocks and then just took it away and gave it to DKs

Despite all the histrionics on this point, I don't see anything proving that they aren't still going to do this. (In fact, giving a battle rez to DKs makes it seem more, not less, likely.)

 

[Bisnic]

No, they only actually changed the layout of Orgrimmar and Stormwind, but they still had to rework the geometry on all the other cities to make them flyable. From what I understand, every other part of the BC starting zones is actually all set (they're complete regardless of what direction you look at them from) but they'd have to put this sort of effort into Silvermoon before they could turn it on elsewhere.

Yeah you're right, Both the blood elf & draenei starting zones are surrounded by water with small mountains, nothing like the old world, so they didn't had to cut graphics or textures or anything, other than maybe Silvermoon like you said.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

The redesigns look awful anyways, flying over the hills and mountains they added to make them flyable makes me cringe. The trees are just laughable as well when compared to those in the new zones.

And if the biggest draw to your game is that you have a customizable ui out of the box then I probably don't want to play that game, sorry rift.

 

[dave is ok]

Despite all the histrionics on this point, I don't see anything proving that they aren't still going to do this. (In fact, giving a battle rez to DKs makes it seem more, not less, likely.)

I think in terms of lore, they just decided that 'Raise Ally' has more of a reason to battle rez than 'Soulstone' does. You could be right though

 

[Bisnic]

The redesigns look awful anyways, flying over the hills and mountains they added to make them flyable makes me cringe. The trees are just laughable as well when compared to those in the new zones.

I agree that flying over a zone like Feralas, it looks so bad. Those giant trees have the worst leaves i've ever seen, it's like something out of the N64.

 

[charlequin]

I think in terms of lore, they just decided that 'Raise Ally' has more of a reason to battle rez than 'Soulstone' does.

Again, I see no real reason to believe this. They said they were going to rework soulstone into being usable as a battle rez. Since that statement, no one at Blizzard has said anything to suggest that their thinking on this issue has changed. Furthermore, experience and examination of class changes in Cataclysm makes it pretty clear that Blizzard considers three to be the magic number of classes with an important ability -- if three classes can do {important thing X} then that means it'll be available to a significant portion of 5-man groups and almost all 10-man raids. The fact that they're giving this ability to DKs suggests to me that they'll follow through with the warlock change and then have three classes who can battle rez (just like there are three classes that can Bloodlust, or three classes that can bring Mark of the Wild.)

 

[ToyMachine228]

I have no problems with the change to Resurrect Ally as it is basically useless as it is now but I also agree that Soulstone needs to be changed. They should just make it an ability just like Rebirth or Resurrect Ally. Having to choose who to Soulstone as opposed to having the freedom of who to resurrect in a given encounter can cause problems. Especially since you're limited in the number of resurrections you can use per encounter now. It can be especially tough in 10-mans.

 

[dimb]

Despite all the histrionics on this point, I don't see anything proving that they aren't still going to do this. (In fact, giving a battle rez to DKs makes it seem more, not less, likely.)

Blizzard must have decided Death Knights were looking a little underpowered, and needed something to bring them up to par with the other classes.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Despite all the histrionics on this point, I don't see anything proving that they aren't still going to do this. (In fact, giving a battle rez to DKs makes it seem more, not less, likely.)

I don't really see how this is "Taking away" either. They just haven't done it.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Blizzard must have decided Death Knights were looking a little underpowered, and needed something to bring them up to par with the other classes.

They are trying to make it so not just one class has a certain buff, they have been doing this for a while. This gives the game "balance". I really don't care but it is taking away from the appeal of certain classes. I get that they don't want to screw over a guild for not having one specific spec but I am not a big fan of them doing it but accept it.

 

[charlequin]

I really don't care but it is taking away from the appeal of certain classes.

I honestly don't see how someone can really say that, for example, the "appeal" of being a druid is centralized in their ability to battle rez, or the "appeal" of a shaman is their ability to Bloodlust. Classes are a big selection of many different, interacting moving parts and it seems downright silly to me to be annoyed that individual buffs or mechanics are shared around a bit.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I honestly don't see how someone can really say that, for example, the "appeal" of being a druid is centralized in their ability to battle rez, or the "appeal" of a shaman is their ability to Bloodlust. Classes are a big selection of many different, interacting moving parts and it seems downright silly to me to be annoyed that individual buffs or mechanics are shared around a bit.

I meant the appeal of bringing them in your group.

 

[dimb]

They are trying to make it so not just one class has a certain buff, they have been doing this for a while. This gives the game "balance". I really don't care but it is taking away from the appeal of certain classes. I get that they don't want to screw over a guild for not having one specific spec but I am not a big fan of them doing it but accept it.

I was just making a joke about Death Knights being overpowered and getting a buff.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I was just making a joke about Death Knights being overpowered and getting a buff.

DKs are OP? wut

 

[Mairu]

DKs are OP? wut

DKs are definitely not overpowered at the moment, and giving them battle res isn't a reason to bring them over a "pure" dps class like rogue or mage nor is it a reason to bring them over a warrior tank. It's just another way that a 10man can have a battle res without requiring a certain class. Raise Ally was pretty worthless the way it was before

 

[J-Rzez]

Do you mind not making mention of that clusterfuck of an MMO?

RIFT Balance > WoW... and it is a surprisingly great game, it joins the ranks as a quality MMO. And it does many things better, more interesting than others, period.

I was just making a joke about Death Knights being overpowered and getting a buff.

You must still be joking. DK's are still in bad shape. Glad to see that they nerfed the fun DK spec down, and now it's time to buff up the boring cut-n-dry one to be "thee DPS/PVP" spec to play for a couple patches. Seriously, these guys have the most fucked up notions on how to "balance" things, and they're really being exposed for it finally. I mean, we saw how they went and crippled classes/specs badly this last patch, now they're going for broke with the Warrior class this time, seeing if they can manage to surpass anything regarding balance they've done to date.

They need to hire some new people there. And, they need to hire some of the hardcore PVE/PVP players to playtest the damn game instead of taking random shots in the dark, or from some random one-hour-tester on the PTR.

 

[Angry Grimace]

RIFT Balance > WoW... and it is a surprisingly great game, it joins the ranks as a quality MMO. And it does many things better, more interesting than others, period.



You must still be joking. DK's are still in bad shape. Glad to see that they nerfed the fun DK spec down, and now it's time to buff up the boring cut-n-dry one to be "thee DPS/PVP" spec to play for a couple patches. Seriously, these guys have the most fucked up notions on how to "balance" things, and they're really being exposed for it finally. I mean, we saw how they went and crippled classes/specs badly this last patch, now they're going for broke with the Warrior class this time, seeing if they can manage to surpass anything regarding balance they've done to date.

They need to hire some new people there. And, they need to hire some of the hardcore PVE/PVP players to playtest the damn game instead of taking random shots in the dark, or from some random one-hour-tester on the PTR.

Frankly, you're just trolling now. DKs aren't in bad shape in any way shape or form.

We already discussed this in terms of the actual bona-fide DPS numbers several pages back, so that argument isn't going to work. So now you've changed tack at the speed of light and are rguing that they are ruining your fun by making a completely different spec within the same class which has no bearing at all on your spec better. That's right, they didn't nerf you, they buffed a different spec. Within the same class.

It's readily apparent the only way you think the game's balancing is any good is if it makes your pet spec magically the top spec. The problem here is, you're defining "good shape" as being patently overpowered. For example, you complained about every single DK nerf from 4.0.3 --> 4.0.6, despite the fact that they were wholly deserved.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

RIFT Balance > WoW...

The response in the OT for rift was very different. From a design standpoint RIFT looks almost impossible to balance with all the options you have. "You can do whatever you want! But most people will find the best combination for each role and if you don't use them you'll suck!"