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[Angry Grimace]

Can't wait to test it out later today, but on paper it doesn't sound excessive. In the past the threat situation has been utterly pathetic, at least from my perspective as a prot warrior. The first heal received can wind up causing a third add (attempt) to dart at the healer.

Threat was at 125%? Seems low to me. RD was 180% by default, and it sounds harder to hold aggro in general in Cataclysm on mechanics alone.

I'm assuming they mean 200% threat, rather than 200% plus your dps's aggro.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Can't wait to test it out later today, but on paper it doesn't sound excessive. In the past the threat situation has been utterly pathetic, at least from my perspective as a prot warrior. The first heal received can wind up causing a third add (attempt) to dart at the healer.

this is what a blue said yesterday "C) A pack of 4 targets that you plan to burn down one at a time. Here is the biggest point of contention. Thunder Clap should be fine for establishing initial aggro (though Shockwave will be better), and it should be fine for keeping add #3 off of the healer. But you should feel like you have to go to town with single target abilities on add #1 that the dps are all focused on. Then you should switch attention to add #2. In Lich King, it was too easy to just hold this whole group with Thunder Clap spam, and to be fair, the dps would just AE as well." before the buff

 

[Aesthet1c]

I tried tanking on a premade prot warrior on the beta and it made me never want to touch my warrior again. Just so aggravating in terms of the work I had to do to hold threat.

Maybe I'm just a bad though.

Warriors take a little getting used to. I used to think I knew everything about my prot war, and I'm constantly learning new tricks. The main thing to hold aggro for them, is to thunderclap and shockwave every time they are on cooldown, revenge whenever it's available, and shield slam (huge threat ability) your main target. I don't use devistate a ton, mainly just to get the initial stacks of sunder, then I basically just use it when everything else is on cooldown.

 

[evlcookie]

I'm thinking about resubbing since i wouldn't mind seeing how the world changes before cataclysm. I haven't paid any attention since i quit in December last year. Is anything exciting coming up outside of raids that i should look forward too if i decide to sub? Is there anything on the PTR that makes you go, oh hell yea this should be awesome or is it all looking a little mediocre?

 

[dimb]

Warriors take a little getting used to. I used to think I knew everything about my prot war, and I'm constantly learning new tricks. The main thing to hold aggro for them, is to thunderclap and shockwave every time they are on cooldown, revenge whenever it's available, and shield slam (huge threat ability) your main target. I don't use devistate a ton, mainly just to get the initial stacks of sunder, then I basically just use it when everything else is on cooldown.

To clear things up, I play my prot warrior all the time on live. I think it is the most fun tanking class. Doing this just did not work on the beta. Even on trash I was using Challenging Shout almost whenever it was off of cooldown. The threat change was much needed.

I'm probably also more off on Warriors in general than I would like to be because Fury is the most garbage garbagey garbage that has ever rolled down a hill made of poop. So bad. So simple. So RNG. So boring.

I'm thinking about resubbing since i wouldn't mind seeing how the world changes before cataclysm. I haven't paid any attention since i quit in December last year. Is anything exciting coming up outside of raids that i should look forward too if i decide to sub? Is there anything on the PTR that makes you go, oh hell yea this should be awesome or is it all looking a little mediocre?

Leave it to your memories and wait. Trust me.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

this is what a blue said yesterday "C) A pack of 4 targets that you plan to burn down one at a time. Here is the biggest point of contention. Thunder Clap should be fine for establishing initial aggro (though Shockwave will be better), and it should be fine for keeping add #3 off of the healer. But you should feel like you have to go to town with single target abilities on add #1 that the dps are all focused on. Then you should switch attention to add #2. In Lich King, it was too easy to just hold this whole group with Thunder Clap spam, and to be fair, the dps would just AE as well." before the buff

Oh my god. So wait: They're actually bringing back the idea of coordination on targets in regular instances and not just FFA burn fests that are a joke where the tank takes all the blame because nobody can focus on a single target (or the healer gets yelled at because they go OOM healing the rogues and mages that aren't focusing their fire)???

Maybe I'll bring back my prot warrior.......

 

[C.Dark.DN]

edit: messed my maths up, will reply later, food

 

[notworksafe]

I'm thinking about resubbing since i wouldn't mind seeing how the world changes before cataclysm. I haven't paid any attention since i quit in December last year. Is anything exciting coming up outside of raids that i should look forward too if i decide to sub? Is there anything on the PTR that makes you go, oh hell yea this should be awesome or is it all looking a little mediocre?

Just wait til 4.0.3. There's nothing worth starting up again for until then.

 

[Flib]

Oh my god. So wait: They're actually bringing back the idea of coordination on targets in regular instances and not just FFA burn fests that are a joke where the tank takes all the blame because nobody can focus on a single target (or the healer gets yelled at because they go OOM healing the rogues and mages that aren't focusing their fire)???

Maybe I'll bring back my prot warrior.......

Yeah, heroics are pretty tough now. Healers have limited mana, tanks actually have to know how to roll cooldowns, aoe is nerfed to hell, CC is needed and there are a lot of situations where if you dont coordinate or you stand in fire at all, you are automatically dead.

Normals are harder too, but pretty manageable.

Also, regarding 3,000 person guilds, I can understand Blizzard wanting to discourage that. With all the perks and such, anyone who wasn't really interested in being in a guild would just join massive guilds which weren't communities at all, basically glorified trade chat (as someone mentioned above). No one would ever have to pay for repairs and shit ever again.

It's in their best interest to keep guilds smaller and foster a more connected community.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Yeah, heroics are pretty tough now. Healers have limited mana, tanks actually have to know how to roll cooldowns, aoe is nerfed to hell, CC is needed and there are a lot of situations where if you dont coordinate or you stand in fire at all, you are automatically dead.

Normals are harder too, but pretty manageable.

Holy shit. That sounds amazing. So is sheeping, sapping, wyvern sting, trapping, all of that wonderfulness making a comeback? I loved it so much when it felt like it was more than just spam heals, spam threat, and spam dps. Actual team coordination and pulling...

 

[krypt0nian]

I'll be so happy as a healer when it again becomes the DPS' fault when I have to heal them because they pulled aggro. Current AoE fests eat my mana as much as those doing the AoE at times.

 

[Johnlenham]

Rune Strike change better be in that mother!

Better be in the PTR/ soon to be live patch or im fucked.

Also spent a whole evening wiping on Sindy, that sure was fun as MT as I cant do anything more than have a load of threat,keep it in the right place and follow the tactics.

Don't even need to run from the pull in as Magic shield drops it from 22k to 4k and human racial clears the slow mov-debuff.
Edit: should point out I did run to clear buffet but twice it froze someone then immediately pulled everyone in and the 3rd the block was to far away so I ended up with something like 7 stacks that didnt clear and raid then the OT dies alogn with a bunch of dps for somereason

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Just pre-ordered Cataclysm, I couldn't believe the collectors edition was 80 bucks. There does not seem like there's 40 dollars worth of additional stuff in that thing.

 

[DarkJC]

Also, regarding 3,000 person guilds, I can understand Blizzard wanting to discourage that. With all the perks and such, anyone who wasn't really interested in being in a guild would just join massive guilds which weren't communities at all, basically glorified trade chat (as someone mentioned above). No one would ever have to pay for repairs and shit ever again.

It's in their best interest to keep guilds smaller and foster a more connected community.

Spoken like someone who has never been in a (good) megaguild.

 

[Flib]

Holy shit. That sounds amazing. So is sheeping, sapping, wyvern sting, trapping, all of that wonderfulness making a comeback? I loved it so much when it felt like it was more than just spam heals, spam threat, and spam dps. Actual team coordination and pulling...

Yep, I've had to mark as a tank and throw out CC assignments. It's less annoying than it used to be though, the encounters are fair but unforgiving. There is much less trash, so it's not like when you had swarms of mobs and CCing could get pretty annoying.

 

[Flib]

Spoken like someone who has never been in a (good) megaguild.

You did notice that I wasn't referencing how things are now, right? That I was specifically referring to the effects of the guild leveling system and associated perks and achievements? I have no problem with the concept of them, I was just trying to see where blizzard was coming from.

And no, I have never been in a megaguild, because I hate most of the WoW community and have a great and tight group of friends and guildies from over the years who I enjoy playing with.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I'll be so happy as a healer when it again becomes the DPS' fault when I have to heal them because they pulled aggro. Current AoE fests eat my mana as much as those doing the AoE at times.

God yes man. I haven't played in a long time, but I liked the good old days when the tank and the healer would actually back one another up to berate DPS.

 

[Alex]

Nothing could make me want to play a healer in Cataclysm at the moment, it is going to take some major tuneups that I don't see occuring for awhile. It is horrendously bad, and I was cheerleading the healing model changes like no other. :lol To say it went to the opposite extreme would be kind. More like it's a marginalized niche now.

The only time I see it really being fun under the current tuning would be exclusively raid bosses, it'll be good for that for sure, if for no other reason than bringing back the teamwork modeling from Vanilla/BC where healers were about working together and not outsniping.

But I get annoyed at little "quality of life" issues and you're literally a drain on your team in PvP at the moment at 85, since half the DPS can non-exaggeratively passively outheal you while putting up crazy damage.

I haven't messed with my Mage since like 2005 though, outside of leveling it, maybe I'll give it a go for Cataclysm, although I still want something new to level.

 

[evlcookie]

Thanks guys. I might just wait until 4.0.3 to see the carnage.

Healers are crappy now? My main was a priest since TBC. I thought about tanking if i decide to play cataclysm but i was always a decent healer.

 

[Alex]

Depends why you're playing it and what you're willing to put up with. I basically only support/heal in ORPGS and MMORPGs, so I'm willing to put up with a lot, but I just feel like a fool when I try to heal in Cataclysm.

You'd have to see for yourself. They won't kill an entire archetype, but it's not even remotely healthy at the moment, for my tastes.

I appreciate some parts of it, the playstyle of the new model is great, especially for Druids, but the numbers are really fucked. In PvE you feel so piss weak and in PvP you ARE piss weak. On what planet is it engaging design to make damage scale higher than healing while you OOM in no time flat if you ever lay off your efficient heal? Why is it a good idea to give every DPS these massive, passive heals that scale off of a percentage of their health? If you heal, you can seriously go into a BG, be the only healer, and come up fourth in healing.

I mean for all of this OOMing, they could at least modernize drinking and not have you on your ass resting after every fight.

I think if they saw this as, imo, as big of a problem as it is, that they'd have made some moves to fix it already so it's just easier for me to throw up my hands and say fuck it. All I ever do is heal anyway, 2004-2010. I need a vacation.

 

[Yoshichan]

Yeah, healers are crappy now. No need for them to be in our party anymore!

 

[Alex]

You'll always need em for PvE, but it feels more like the way you would need someones ill-played Shaman alt for the Heroism during BC :lol.

 

[notworksafe]

Yeah, healers are crappy now. No need for them to be in our party anymore!

If you're a DK tank, that's actually sort of an option. :lol

 

[MagicJackBauer]

Yeah, healers are crappy now. No need for them to be in our party anymore!

:lol

 

[Angry Grimace]

Oh my god. So wait: They're actually bringing back the idea of coordination on targets in regular instances and not just FFA burn fests that are a joke where the tank takes all the blame because nobody can focus on a single target (or the healer gets yelled at because they go OOM healing the rogues and mages that aren't focusing their fire)???

Maybe I'll bring back my prot warrior.......

Let's not get crazy here. Nobody goes OOM.

 

[Alex]

This game has such amazing customer support, I do have to say that. Since I came back and had to fix a few issues, the GMs pretty much did it all effortlessly and speedily, including stuff I figured would be unreasonable.

Since someone also said that they would possibly free up a name for you if it was just some long term placeholder and you asked, I did ask, and they freed it up.

That really sticks out in this genre. I mean... basically every other MMO I've ever played, ever, has been just the dregs to have to contact any customer support. And, judging by a certain other recent MMO that I dodged the bullet on buying but a friend didn't, that's still the case as the GMs there are more than likely to tell you that whatever your problem is will remain your problem and to piss off.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I do have to say, the new "noob friendly" super-vague tooltips are kind of annoying.

Like when you mouse over Heroic Strike and it says something like, "hits the enemy for a lot of damage! Use when you have lots of rage! " or Righteous Fury, which has the vague tooltip, "Increases your threat so you can be a better tank!"

I fail to see what benefit Blizzard gains by restricting guild size considering the major achievements only account for major contributors, and the others are achievable by most people anyways. If you can manage a 5,000 person guild, you should get some credit for it.

 

[Yoshichan]

That's better than:

"Ambush - Ambushes the enemy for 480% of the 20% of your main hand then concentrates 1.8% of your health (100%) disarm your friendly targets mana"

 

[FLEABttn]

The rogue I leveled in 04/05 I didn't use ambush till 60 because I had no idea what x% of MH weapon damage meant in terms of damage. I garroted everything until someone explained it.

 

[Scrow]

The rogue I leveled in 04/05 I didn't use ambush till 60 because I had no idea what x% of MH weapon damage meant in terms of damage. I garroted everything until someone explained it.

you could've just... used it and watched the numbers pop up to see what was bigger.

 

[Alex]

Mage talents are fucking bonkers, what a polished class.

 

[DarkJC]

You did notice that I wasn't referencing how things are now, right? That I was specifically referring to the effects of the guild leveling system and associated perks and achievements? I have no problem with the concept of them, I was just trying to see where blizzard was coming from.

Blizzard is coming from a position of technical issues surrounding the guild system with large guild sizes. They're certainly not implementing a hard cap to avoid people "gaming" the system by forming a big guild.

 

[notworksafe]

I'm not sure about technical issues. They just don't care about big guilds (because they are 0.1% of the player base apparently) and are making it easier on themselves for having to balance guild XP around guilds over 600 members by eliminating them (or at least stopping them from growing).

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm not sure about technical issues. They just don't care about big guilds (because they are 0.1% of the player base apparently) and are making it easier on themselves for having to balance guild XP around guilds over 600 members by eliminating them (or at least stopping them from growing).

If they really wanted to, they could cap it so you only get anything at all from your 600 most active members.

I don't think they care about size as a Guild XP/achievement meter, I think its some technical reason. Even if it was, most of those really hard to get/important guild achievements like We Are Legendary require a focused guild effort to obtain in the first place.

 

[Flib]

Yeah, I fail to see the technical issues of why it was capped at 600.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah, I fail to see the technical issues of why it was capped at 600.

Another theory is that they just don't like the conceptual idea of supermegaguilds.

 

[Evlar]

It was capped to prevent guilds from becoming excessively huge. You could imagine servers in which a significant portion of the population on one faction belonged to a single guild, because 40,000 people would rather just join up with the guys who already got Mass Resurrection than going it alone.

 

[Stuggernaut]

woot!

Got my ICC Mount tonight (10m) finally!! Was a long battle for this with my guild but we did it

 

[davepoobond]

It was capped to prevent guilds from becoming excessively huge. You could imagine servers in which a significant portion of the population on one faction belonged to a single guild, because 40,000 people would rather just join up with the guys who already got Mass Resurrection than going it alone.

i can probably see that happening. you just join a guild right away as soon as you make an alt.

but then there's a lot of money involved in that too...i think it would probably even out anyway, a guild of that size wouldnt sustain itself for very long

 

[notworksafe]

woot!

Got my ICC Mount tonight (10m) finally!! Was a long battle for this with my guild but we did it

Congrats! My guild decided it was far too much work and went with the Ulduar ones. :lol

 

[C.Dark.DN]

"The cost of heirlooms in 4.0.1 has been intentionally increased above what they currently cost to match the gain of points players will see at level 85. It's recommended that if you want to buy heirlooms you do so now before 4.0.1 is released, or wait until after purchasing Cataclysm, leveling to 85, and running that content for points. "

 

[HarryDemeanor]

"The cost of heirlooms in 4.0.1 has been intentionally increased above what they currently cost to match the gain of points players will see at level 85. It's recommended that if you want to buy heirlooms you do so now before 4.0.1 is released, or wait until after purchasing Cataclysm, leveling to 85, and running that content for points. "

Welp time to buy mine now.

 

[speedpop]

Definitely glad I grabbed mine a few days ago then.

 

[Evlar]

Hmmm. That's an interesting dilemma.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

woot!

Got my ICC Mount tonight (10m) finally!! Was a long battle for this with my guild but we did it

nice! my guild is working on the 25m mount and we only have "neck deep in vile" left. Spent a couple of hours tonight failing at it lol.

 

[Fox1304]

Holy shit. That sounds amazing. So is sheeping, sapping, wyvern sting, trapping, all of that wonderfulness making a comeback? I loved it so much when it felt like it was more than just spam heals, spam threat, and spam dps. Actual team coordination and pulling...

Hell yeah, give me back my Hunter-Glory-Days, where my magic triple-ice-trap pull was legendary !

 

[Alex]

Yeah, I resubbed to get some. They did say the Argent Tourney ones would work though even after the patch, with the Champions Seals.

My first real night playing again since mid 09. I went ahead and did the Operation Gnomeregan questline too. That was pretty cute though it def left me wanting to see more. I like the new voice actor they got for Mekkatorque.

I'd like to see the Horde one too, but no character atm. I hope it still remains in Cataclysm.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Crusader would take me way longer. Getting exalted in everything.

 

[Acidote]

I've lost two of my heirloom items.

They must have been on the mail when I unsubscribed. Caster robe and staff :lol

 

[davepoobond]

I'd like to see the Horde one too, but no character atm. I hope it still remains in Cataclysm.

misplaced hope.