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[Ryaaan14]

Its gonna be great. Getting rid of 'cookie cutter' by doing the cookie cutting for us Blizz. Its genius! Master Stroke! 10/10! If you were bankers youd get a 50billion dollar bail out and bonuses for your terriffic dynamism!

Making it so players get to choose what they want to do, and have it balance with the rest of the combinations is a hell of a lot better than just hitting the web to ctrl-v the best possible talents for your spec.

There is a lot they need to prove by balancing, but if you think the current talent system is a better personal user experience, you're delusional.

 

[FrontalMonk]

After playing the TOR beta, I had once again gotten used to people actually talking, had forgotten how things are in such an old MMO. This must be a trainwreck for people completely new to the game. At least Ive played before, so I can pick up on stuff fast, but this shit would alienate the average newbie.

This is the reason why I've more or less refused to solo queue with my tank, I have to bring a guildie along with so I can make sure I understand the fights...once I've gone through a place once I'm fine, but when you hit that solo queue you have to pray it's a dungeon you've already done. Solo queue'd tol'vir pretty smoothly yesterday, though. Getting out there a little more. Trying to gear up for the Dragon Soul Heroics.

 

[markot]

Making it so players get to choose what they want to do, and have it balance with the rest of the combinations is a hell of a lot better than just hitting the web to ctrl-v the best possible talents for your spec.

There is a lot they need to prove by balancing, but if you think the current talent system is a better personal user experience, you're delusional.

You cant chose anything except a role.

The talent system sucks as it is, but the new mop stuff sucks alot harder.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

I'm looking forward to Pandas/Monks and an expansion devoted to end game but yeah... Wrath style 5-mans, easy normal raids, and the new talent trees really don't have me especially optimistic about what that end-game will actually be.

Honestly, I think it will end up being a revitalization of PvP more than anything else. The leveling experience should be much better than Cata though with a cohesive, single continent without flying to start with. I am looking forward to exploring Asian-inspired landscapes.

In spite of all that, yeah, I'm still worried about endgame. The truth is though, unless something significant changes, I'm probably not going to be much of a raider anymore. Maybe it's just been Cata doldrums and I'll change my mind, but at this point, I've kind of wrung almost everything out of WoW. It just doesn't have the same magic for me as it once did.

I'd need to find the perfect group of people to play with which is hard when I don't know anyone in real life who plays. I'll definitely give it a good shot with the MoP launch, and maybe a decent bit at any expansion thereafter, but with Diablo III out by then, scratching much of the same itch WoW has had while providing the opportunity to make money off the hours invested to boot, I don't know.

I could be overestimating how much I'll enjoy Diablo though.



Edit: Would also like to add - I may have a different opinion after experiencing LFR, but I'm not sure it will be enough to satiate my competitive spirit when it comes to PvE.

 

[Miletius]

I don't see the new talent system as anything but an improvement. Like somebody else mentioned, the current talent system is:

1) look up best spec on EJ.
2) Have 2-5 "filler" talents that can go anywhere
3) Pick based on these fillers.

If the new system is unique enough while being balanced it's going to be a step up. Warlocks get Sacrifice back, they get the option to have multiple demons or the option to have a more powerful demon. This to me is exactly the definition of a tough choice. I would like all of these, I only get to pick one. Sure there are some stupid talents but hopefully they can get enough feedback and make them better by release.

Of all the things to complain about it WoW the death of the talent system as it currently is isn't high on my list.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

I don't see the new talent system as anything but an improvement. Like somebody else mentioned, the current talent system is:

1) look up best spec on EJ.
2) Have 2-5 "filler" talents that can go anywhere
3) Pick based on these fillers.

If the new system is unique enough while being balanced it's going to be a step up. Warlocks get Sacrifice back, they get the option to have multiple demons or the option to have a more powerful demon. This to me is exactly the definition of a tough choice. I would like all of these, I only get to pick one. Sure there are some stupid talents but hopefully they can get enough feedback and make them better by release.

Of all the things to complain about it WoW the death of the talent system as it currently is isn't high on my list.

I'm look forward to seeing how it ends up working out. It is a dramatic shift in the name of improvement though. Especially when the current talent system isn't necessarily "broken". It might not accomplish the intended goals as well as Blizzard may like, but it still works.

The new stuff seems to be a move towards the original DK style, where every tree worked for everything (which I liked.) The downside being hard to balance.

 

[Alex]

MoP talent system is great, despite how dumbed down it seems it's a large improvement for an incredibly mathed out game.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

MoP talent system is great, despite how dumbed down it seems it's a large improvement for an incredibly mathed out game.

The one thing it does do is really force you to make some hard choices where there it seems as if there isn't necessarily a right or wrong. At least in some trees on some tiers. In other spots, there are more obvious choices.

It's definitely neat to see things like 3 mobility talents that all have strengths and being forced to choose. Or 3 radically different talents that are all good. Hopefully they iterate so most, if not all, talent tiers are like that.

 

[Alex]

My only complaint is it should be every 10 levels, not every 15, that's bordering on anemic even if there are some great choices to be made.

It'd also be nice if they could figure out something to fill the void of talents and their constant presence, it is a valid complaint that it'll take some of the wind out of leveling, an aspect of the game that needs a whole lot of wind right now.

I did want to proudly state that I never planned on re-leveling again, but I want a Monk... goddamnit, I'll never escape leveling.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

FUCK!?

I just realized, after 6 characters in Vashj'ir, that I could use my land mount on the sea bed for 220% movement with sea legs while walking gives 160%.

Doesn't matter cause you get the seahorse quick, but shit.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Speaking of Vash, I just took my newly minted 80 druid there the other day. Got stuck early on with a weird quest (may or may not be bugged with 4.3) where you have to wait to be captured by the Naga. Stupid event quests like that are always hit or miss.

But man. Aquatic Form + Glyph is INSANE. The swimming animations weren't made to move that fast. It's so ridiculous.

 

[Alex]

FUCK!?

I just realized, after 6 characters in Vashj'ir, that I could use my land mount on the sea bed for 220% movement with sea legs while walking gives 160%.

Doesn't matter cause you get the seahorse quick, but shit.

Ive never seen anyone do that, and I never tried, it's not really a big deal. Like you said, sea horse is so early in.

I mean, do you even keep the movement boon of sea legs while off the bottom while mounted? If not it seems like it'd be a hassle to mount up and down so much.

 

[yanhero]

Since I didnt play Cata after buying it, Im reacting now and doing the instances in DF for the first time. The community in this game has melted down even further than it was when I left. Noone will (not even the person who selects the dungeon guide role) will explain any of the fights before they start, so we end up with 3/5 of the group dying, when we didnt know we needed to collapse for a special ability. DBM is nice, but it doesnt tell you everything.

After playing the TOR beta, I had once again gotten used to people actually talking, had forgotten how things are in such an old MMO. This must be a trainwreck for people completely new to the game. At least Ive played before, so I can pick up on stuff fast, but this shit would alienate the average newbie.

Terrible.

Did you try asking? If no one asks, I'm not gonna waste 5 min per boss explaining the fight to people who already know it. But I'll gladly explain it to someone who doesn't, all you gotta do is ask.

 

[Miletius]

My only complaint is it should be every 10 levels, not every 15, that's bordering on anemic even if there are some great choices to be made.

It'd also be nice if they could figure out something to fill the void of talents and their constant presence, it is a valid complaint that it'll take some of the wind out of leveling, an aspect of the game that needs a whole lot of wind right now.

I did want to proudly state that I never planned on re-leveling again, but I want a Monk... goddamnit, I'll never escape leveling.

I hear you there on all points. Every 10 levels seems just right, 15 not so much. Before Wrath, you had to train your newly ranked as you leveled up. After Wrath, it was just talents and spells the first time. After Cata it was just a talent every other level until 80 and spells. Now it'll be just spells the first time around and talents every 15 levels. Hopefully they can add something that gives you the sense of accomplishment you should have when leveling, but I'm hard pressed to understand what that could be.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Ive never seen anyone do that, and I never tried, it's not really a big deal. Like you said, sea horse is so early in.

I mean, do you even keep the movement boon of sea legs while off the bottom while mounted? If not it seems like it'd be a hassle to mount up and down so much.

I never seen anyone do it either

Off the floor you're the same as swim speed. But, traveling on the floor is best until you get the mount.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think part of the problem in fighting generic specs is that some of Blizzard's systems powering the game are working at cross purposes.

Take the Level 90 Mage talents. They are all kind of cool, but they're also all no-brainers for every player Why? Mastery and talent specialization. All you have to do is select the "bomb" that matches your spec since it will do more damage based on your mastery anyways. It's only a clever system if it was able to do generic magic damage which wasn't increased by your mastery.

I think the DK tree is looking pretty good, however; I think it's an interesting choice betwen Runic Corruption and Empowerment. If Blizzard can pare every single choice to being that interesting, then they'll have pulled it off. But that's hard to do AND make those choices feel powerful.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

I think the DK tree is looking pretty good, however; I think it's an interesting choice betwen Runic Corruption and Empowerment. If Blizzard can pare every single choice to being that interesting, then they'll have pulled it off. But that's hard to do AND make those choices feel powerful.

I'd be pretty surprised if anyone took Empowerment over Corruption.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'd be pretty surprised if anyone took Empowerment over Corruption.

I think theoretically at least, Empowerment might be better (or perhaps Blizzard should work it out to actually BE better if it doesn't end up returning more runes), but the randomization of it is what makes it cumbersome. That is an interesting choice if it works that way (which they could tweak by making Empowerment proc higher, I suppose?): Empowerment returns more runes, but the benefit is more random, Corruption is consistent, and Blood Tap returns runes on demand, but returns significantly less of them.

Would I take Empowerment? No. But perhaps someone might; I mean, people spec subtlety.

 

[thatbox]

I don't see the new talent system as anything but an improvement. Like somebody else mentioned, the current talent system is:

1) look up best spec on EJ.
2) Have 2-5 "filler" talents that can go anywhere
3) Pick based on these fillers.

If the new system is unique enough while being balanced it's going to be a step up. Warlocks get Sacrifice back, they get the option to have multiple demons or the option to have a more powerful demon. This to me is exactly the definition of a tough choice. I would like all of these, I only get to pick one. Sure there are some stupid talents but hopefully they can get enough feedback and make them better by release.

Of all the things to complain about it WoW the death of the talent system as it currently is isn't high on my list.

Now instead of doing that when you pick the role you're filling, you do that before every boss fight. Not an improvement in my book.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Now instead of doing that when you pick the role you're filling, you do that before every boss fight. Not an improvement in my book.

That's really speculative.

 

[EekTheKat]

I really hate some people in this game.

deleted guild drama. TLDR version is that I'm in a 10m "Normal" level guild and have been actively doing the legendary. Due to how the Legendary progression is skewered towards 25m Normal/Heroic and 10m Heroics, doing it in a 10m Normal guild effectively puts my finish line 2 months behind everyone else.

Now a certain member in my guild are being rather vocal about having to do firelands again instead of the new content and without a doubt is pushing behind the scenes to leave Firelands for good.

 

[th3dude]

I really hate some people in this game.

deleted guild drama. TLDR version is that I'm in a 10m "Normal" level guild and have been actively doing the legendary. Due to how the Legendary progression is skewered towards 25m Normal/Heroic and 10m Heroics, doing it in a 10m Normal guild effectively puts my finish line 2 months behind everyone else.

Now a certain member in my guild are being rather vocal about having to do firelands again instead of the new content, and without a doubt is pushing behind the scenes to leave Firelands for good.

I had a less severe, but still annoying, case of this the other night, although it was with randoms.

I'm a very new WoW player. I've been at 85 on my Paladin Tank for maybe a day or so worth of play time. This is my first 85.

I've learned the new Twilight Heroics pretty quickly and have little problem tanking in them. Was mostly able to find groups easily that would help me out.

The other night, however, I decided to start grinding more VP since my week was up. I get into this group and the healer is immediately telling me how 'painful it is' to watch me tank and that I'm 'f'ing horrid'. We didn't wipe and we had little problem getting through.

Then, as a Holy Paladin, he needs on my tanking gear that I've been hoping would drop. When I asked why, he responded 'to see how you'd react' and continued on in that manner.

I have no desire to do randoms for a while. Been working on other things instead

 

[Mairu]

They really need to fix the roll bonuses on LFR. A hunter won Souldrinker + 2H STR sword and wasn't even in the instance to get the Souldrinker -_-

 

[Miletius]

I had a less severe, but still annoying, case of this the other night, although it was with randoms.

I'm a very new WoW player. I've been at 85 on my Paladin Tank for maybe a day or so worth of play time. This is my first 85.

I've learned the new Twilight Heroics pretty quickly and have little problem tanking in them. Was mostly able to find groups easily that would help me out.

The other night, however, I decided to start grinding more VP since my week was up. I get into this group and the healer is immediately telling me how 'painful it is' to watch me tank and that I'm 'f'ing horrid'. We didn't wipe and we had little problem getting through.

Then, as a Holy Paladin, he needs on my tanking gear that I've been hoping would drop. When I asked why, he responded 'to see how you'd react' and continued on in that manner.

I have no desire to do randoms for a while. Been working on other things instead

That's too bad. It shows you the negative of the LFG/LFR system. When your anonymity is somewhat preserved because you are playing with random people that you don't know it is much easier to be an asshole to them. Makes me wonder if I want to bring my (almost) newly 85 druid into randoms at all.

 

[wonderdung]

I really hate some people in this game.

deleted guild drama. TLDR version is that I'm in a 10m "Normal" level guild and have been actively doing the legendary. Due to how the Legendary progression is skewered towards 25m Normal/Heroic and 10m Heroics, doing it in a 10m Normal guild effectively puts my finish line 2 months behind everyone else.

Now a certain member in my guild are being rather vocal about having to do firelands again instead of the new content and without a doubt is pushing behind the scenes to leave Firelands for good.

Yeah it's an unfortunate situation, especially with progression to do. We're adding an optional H firelands clear on weekends so we can finish our second legendary and spend all our normal raid time on progression. Once our guy gets the legendary I doubt anyone will want to go back there ever again.

But honestly if you're in a guild that just clears normals there's no reason to rush progression. That ship has sailed, there can't be any meaningful server-level competition to it anymore.

 

[Syphon Filter]

If i buy wow will the month start right away or is there something that activates it? I want to get it for $5 but right now i don't want to play it since i am busy with school finals and stuff.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

If i buy wow will the month start right away or is there something that activates it? I want to get it for $5 but right now i don't want to play it since i am busy with school finals and stuff.

Not with the boxed version obviously. Not sure about the digital, but I'm pretty sure it works similarly. They email you a code that you use to activate the account if I recall correctly.

 

[Rokal]

Pretty sure you're just buying the product key, so you can save it to use whenever.

 

[strafer]

This is my Warlock with his faithful Felhunter. In Shadowmoon Valley with Hand of Gul'dan in the back.

Here I'm chilling a bit with Gul'dan himself, the most powerful Warlock in history.

 

[markot]

I really dont get people who think the changes are good. Any form of hybridisation is dead.

Spells are being restricted, no heals but 1 for Shadow priests. Holy Nova is the only AOE heal disc priests get.

I mean, why give heals dps at all?

Its just so fucked up. I dont get what the hell they are doing.

And the 'it sucked before' excuse doesnt hold water. Cause they arent fixing the suck, they are reinforcing it. The lack of options was a problem before, not taht we had them. That they didnt do the talent trees properly, give us meaningful control.

So now its all gone, all we get are 6 flavour spells.... and a hell of alot more restrictions on classes and specs. Yippee?

I remember when shadow priests could heal instances if the shit went down. Hell, I Remember when shadow could heal even if it didnt. Now? Nup.

They are killing this games core, the whole 'choice' bit is going, you only get 3 meaning ful choices, what 'spec' you chose for your class. Yay.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I really dont get people who think the changes are good. Any form of hybridisation is dead.

Spells are being restricted, no heals but 1 for Shadow priests. Holy Nova is the only AOE heal disc priests get.

I mean, why give heals dps at all?

Its just so fucked up. I dont get what the hell they are doing.

And the 'it sucked before' excuse doesnt hold water. Cause they arent fixing the suck, they are reinforcing it. The lack of options was a problem before, not taht we had them. That they didnt do the talent trees properly, give us meaningful control.

So now its all gone, all we get are 6 flavour spells.... and a hell of alot more restrictions on classes and specs. Yippee?

I remember when shadow priests could heal instances if the shit went down. Hell, I Remember when shadow could heal even if it didnt. Now? Nup.

They are killing this games core, the whole 'choice' bit is going, you only get 3 meaning ful choices, what 'spec' you chose for your class. Yay.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

A lot of the problems you're complaining about aren't relevant anymore because they have dual specializations.

 

[markot]

lol?

 

[Angry Grimace]

lol?

Low content responses yay

The entire purpose of Shadow Priest is that you can't heal. I mean, I'd try to respond to all the things you said, but it was a pretty schizophrenic rant. The only thing I really understood was that you think classes should be able to do multiple things at once, but that was never something good players ever did. I simply don't understand the concept that you require the option to be bad for some reason. It doesn't really follow.

 

[TheYanger]

lol?

There hasn't been hybridization since...ever. That's the whole point. Illusion of a choice isn't a choice, being a 'hybrid' in the sense that you perform multiple roles simultaneously isn't a CHOICE, it's a failure. Anyone who ever did it was bad. Why would they continue to reinforce that as a valid decision? Even now, you can be say, a Frost DK, and literally HALF of your abilities are useless, but I see frost dks who use shit like blood strike ALL THE FUCKING TIME because they don't learn any better and can't fathom that their abilities don't work like that.
The new system solves that.

 

[markot]

Well, Dual Specialisation has nothing to do with anything first of all.

Secondly, Shadow priests have access to all heal spells, outside of the spec specific ones. Come MOP, they will have 1.

They cant heal as well, but they can heal. I remember back in teh days of yore, hybrid shadow spec in bgs was great, you could deal some dmg, but also heal if needed.

Now? One or the other. No choice. Oh, well flash heal I guess.

What has any of that to do with dual specs? I honestly dont see how any of my complaints with the specs, is addressed by 'switch spec'. When the specs are what I am talking about.

And its complete BS that hybridisation didnt exist...

Whatever.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Well, Dual Specialisation has nothing to do with anything first of all.

Secondly, Shadow priests have access to all heal spells, outside of the spec specific ones. Come MOP, they will have 1.

They cant heal as well, but they can heal. I remember back in teh days of yore, hybrid shadow spec in bgs was great, you could deal some dmg, but also heal if needed.

Now? One or the other. No choice. Oh, well flash heal I guess.

What has any of that to do with dual specs? I honestly dont see how any of my complaints with the specs, is addressed by 'switch spec'. When the specs are what I am talking about.

Actually it does. You complain that Shadow Priest can't heal. Switch specs. Disc Priest don't have AoE heals. Switch specs.

They don't NEED to heal. You're basically demanding the option to be bad just so you have it. Why does that need to be in the game?

 

[markot]

Yeah, great responses, you guys should be Blues.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah, great responses, you guys should be Blues.

You seem fond of low content responses.

 

[Yoshichan]

How the fuck do some people really manage to breath and live?

This resto druid pug I was with, for the fight against Deathwing, didn't know the following stuff:

1. He never used Lifebloom, he didn't find "the reason to use it".
2. Never used Tranquility, he'd rather "rejuvenate everyone".
3. Wouldn't use innervate until he's down to 0-10% mana.

Oh my God, I want to kill myself right now.

 

[Angry Grimace]

How the fuck do some people really manage to breath and live?

This resto druid pug I was with, for the fight against Deathwing, didn't know the following stuff:

1. He never used Lifebloom, he didn't find "the reason to use it".
2. Never used Tranquility, he'd rather "rejuvenate everyone".
3. Wouldn't use innervate until he's down to 0-10% mana.

Oh my God, I want to kill myself right now.

We just kicked people with obnoxiously low HPS when we did that on LFR.

The key to a smooth LFR kill for Deathwing is just taking charge and telling mouth breathers what to do. It's not super complex on LFR since most things aside from Cataclysm can't easily kill you. That's really what makes LFR LFR; nothing kills you if you fuck up. I don't even know what Warmaster Blackhorn does yet and we killed him.

 

[Yoshichan]

It wasn't LFR though. When I did play LFR, I was the only healer who performed anywhere near 32k hps. The rest had below 15k... where do these people come from?

 

[Angry Grimace]

It wasn't LFR though. When I did play LFR, I was the only healer who performed anywhere near 32k hps. The rest had below 15k... where do these people come from?

So this is a guy in your guild? Maybe my server is just bad, because there's no way we'd be pugging DW.

 

[Mairu]

We just kicked people with obnoxiously low HPS when we did that on LFR.

The key to a smooth LFR kill for Deathwing is just taking charge and telling mouth breathers what to do. It's not super complex on LFR since most things aside from Cataclysm can't easily kill you. That's really what makes LFR LFR; nothing kills you if you fuck up. I don't even know what Warmaster Blackhorn does yet and we killed him.

I get really tired of telling people what to attack or do on spine/madness that I'm ready to just make a macro with directions & commands :|

 

[Angry Grimace]

I get really tired of telling people what to attack or do on spine/madness that I'm ready to just make a macro with directions & commands :|

That's what I did for the Kalec island on Madness. That's the only part of Madness that makes people die on LFR. "Don't try to AoE the tentacles" means basically nothing. It's almost worth doing Alex last just to not have to deal with it.

 

[Yoshichan]

So this is a guy in your guild? Maybe my server is just bad, because there's no way we'd be pugging DW.

No guild run... just a whole 10 man PUG.

 

[idlewild_]

No guild run... just a whole 10 man PUG.

sigh, hearing things like this makes me want to transfer some alts to Illidan or Mal'ganis or one of the other servers that can pug content most of my server can't down in a guild run.

 

[Miletius]

sigh, hearing things like this makes me want to transfer some alts to Illidan or Mal'ganis or one of the other servers that can pug content most of my server can't down in a guild run.

Do it. Best WoW decision you'll ever make. I could not fathom playing on a less developed server anymore.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Do it. Best WoW decision you'll ever make. I could not fathom playing on a less developed server anymore.

Totally. Although Area 52 isn't the very best, it's definitely in the top tier and it's so much better than the middling/backwater server I'm currently on. Just from playing in the GAF guild and leveling.

You see the trade chat, the population in Orgrimmar, and the AH - it's a whole different world.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Do it. Best WoW decision you'll ever make. I could not fathom playing on a less developed server anymore.

Seriously, I always wonder what it's like to play on a server not like Mal'Ganis where I can just get into a pug on one of my alts and clear a raid.

 

[Entropia]

Seriously, I always wonder what it's like to play on a server not like Mal'Ganis where I can just get into a pug on one of my alts and clear a raid.

It's fucking B O R I N G.

My main is one that kind of server, and it's awful. No one pugs anything, and the ones that do are usually in some casual guild looking to get carried.