Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
12 hours a week is casual? That sounds pretty much like a job.
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World of Warcraft |OT3|
- Thread starter charlequin
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12 hours a week is casual? That sounds pretty much like a job.
a poorly paying part time job at that.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's not casual for anyone anywhere unless you have a completely different understanding of English than everyone else, really. The fact that there's a group of guys out there that does 110 hours a week doesn't make you casual in any respect other than in comparison to those dudes.
I have 3 characters with maxed out archaeology, only ever 1 85 epic and it's the common ring from Tol'vir. Fuck that shit.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
3 chars maxed out no ZR
Ha. I still have the old one, so it doesn't really matter anymore. Well, at least for my main.
Depends. I work 14 hours and I get paid more than the people who work 40 hours here.
There's different levels of casual.
Everything's not white and black.
Casual can mean little to no raiding at all, raiding 1 day a week for a normal mode guild, raiding 3 days a week for a heroic guild that used to raid 5 or whatever.
Look up the word relative.
12 hours at 3 days a week is casual for him. Doesn't have to be for you or me.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
To do pretty much any progression at a reasonable pace at all you probably need to commit at least 2 days a week, even if that's only 3 hours. Certainly for 25-man guilds, anything less than 3 days a week (at 3 hours per) would be pushing it. Other viable options would be 2 days, 4 hours per, and 3 days, 4 hours per. I think that's pretty much the ceiling for anything you could call "casual" though. As more than 3 days a week, even if for less time, is a serious commitment. And certainly anything more than 12 hours of scheduled raiding. Though I'd say at 8-12 hours, you're certainly leaning more towards "core" or "dedicated" rather "casual".
Basically, in my mind: More than 3 days scheduled (hardcore, or at least very dedicated). Same goes for more than 12 hours per week. Talking about specific, dedicated raiding time. I would expect the typical raider to play at least an average of an hour a day besides that in a given week though. Maybe less if they're wealthy and don't have to worry about gold for consumables.
It's all semantics though really.
Basically, in my mind: More than 3 days scheduled (hardcore, or at least very dedicated). Same goes for more than 12 hours per week. Talking about specific, dedicated raiding time. I would expect the typical raider to play at least an average of an hour a day besides that in a given week though. Maybe less if they're wealthy and don't have to worry about gold for consumables.
It's all semantics though really.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Just a (relatively) minor buff for the duration of the dungeon. They're worthless now with player power levels, and certainly not worth the cost. You need to use up a keystone to activate them (varying by dungeon) and those are worth much more for use in artifacts.
Especially Tolvir artifacts...who in their right mind would use them for small buffs in tolvir dungeons?
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I had a buddy in my core 5-man group at the time who did that once early on (the first couple weeks of Cata) to see what it did.
He definitely regretted it in a major way immediately after.
Same. lol. Well, I've played a few hours a week since my Nov 16th 3rd shift jerb.
I bought the miniature tree dagger for my rogue to transmorg for 3k because I don't have time to fool with the dailies.
Sigh, just had to replace the mouse I've been using for the past 5-6 years 'cause it kept cutting out on me. I can't get used to this new one. Feels either too fast or too slow depending on what settings I use. Also it feels slower over 'long' distances then when you're trying to make very small adjustments to your mouse cursor placement. It feels like it wants to 'take off' so to speak. I keep over-shooting everything. Irritating me no end. Hopefully the more I use it the better it feels.
I replaced the mx518 for the g500.
Thanks for the Arch. info, sounds terrible.
I replaced the mx518 for the g500.
Thanks for the Arch. info, sounds terrible.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Congrats on the Qiraji mount by the way. Even though it's awful, I really should go back to archeology sometime. Bunch of stuff I haven't gotten, even though I'm at 525.
12 hours a week while being a hardcore raider is pretty fucking casual. I've raided 5 days a week since wow launched (and much more in Everquest), and that's basically the 'standard' raid week for anything purporting to be hardcore, all the way up from like 2/8 heroic guilds.
We only raid a couple hours two nights a week and have a longer raid on sundays /shrug. Going below 3 nights...you're not even talking heroic progression capable in all reality. At that point you basically aren't even raiding, since normal modes in wow are just a joke now.
We only raid a couple hours two nights a week and have a longer raid on sundays /shrug. Going below 3 nights...you're not even talking heroic progression capable in all reality. At that point you basically aren't even raiding, since normal modes in wow are just a joke now.
It is awful really, the only time i did archaeology was while waiting on my DPS queue for 5 mans and raid finders more recently. No way i was going to do that at any other times.
But now that i got the mount... i guess i'll have to do something else while waiting. Maybe play my 3DS or something, there's good chances i'll get Mario Kart as a gift tomorrow, perfect timing!
Merry Christmas!
And as an extra gift i went with my guild for Black Temple and got the mage T6 robe and shoulders! Only need to find some gloves to match the set and it will be the best Xmas day ever for WoW. :lol
Subliminal
Member
I love it when people say normal modes are a joke.
protip: they're not a joke when you're not in heroic FL gear.
protip: they're not a joke when you're not in heroic FL gear.
SillyEskimo
Member
On the subject of archeology - I just started this myself. I've gotten some pets and clickables so far. I just hit 300 and started digging in Outlands. It's a time consuming bore, but I cannot help but be excited when I get a rare. It keeps me going! I read and watch movies while I fly everywhere.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Only ones that need good gear is tank. Rest is a joke, just know your class and the mechanics of the fight and Dragons Souls is a joke.
Sorry, they're still a joke. At least compared to every previous tier in this expansion.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Holy shit, dude.
Subliminal
Member
Well, We're had dps problems on alot of fights which aren't about 'knowing your class' as much as having the best gear. Normal mode seems balanced around ilvl 370-380, Its still a push for dps then.
Remember that gear often is used to make up for poor play when it comes to DPS. It's likely that you can reach the limits you need to in normal mode by waiting for gear, or by finding flaws in individual player's performance and fixing them.
In a PuG DS I did, we had a fire mage putting out 18k dps on Ultraxion in 380 average ilvl gear. We still won, but it's because other dps made up for what he was lacking. Normally, that player and his guild would have had to wait for everyone to get better gear to brute force the dps check, or they'd have had to talk to him about what he was doing wrong. Most guilds choose the gear route.
In a PuG DS I did, we had a fire mage putting out 18k dps on Ultraxion in 380 average ilvl gear. We still won, but it's because other dps made up for what he was lacking. Normally, that player and his guild would have had to wait for everyone to get better gear to brute force the dps check, or they'd have had to talk to him about what he was doing wrong. Most guilds choose the gear route.
petethepanda
Member
Are there any percentages out there for how many OSX players there are? I was talking to somebody about being disappointed about TOR being Windows-only when its main competition has supported OSX since day one and they said they didn't know anybody who played WoW on Macs. Personally I knew a shitload of people who would have it loaded onto their mbp and such.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Well, I'm one. And yeah, I'm probably gonna get TOR and play it on Bootcamp in the next few days. Still, I definitely would be more over that if it had OS X support already. Hopefully it gets it eventually as they're definitely losing out on an audience (though obviously we don't know exactly how big - certainly millions of Mac owners) by not having an OS X client. Especially when WoW and EVE do.
Not trying to be 'mean' but I'll lay it out just the same: Doing good dps is only a product of your gear when you're already playing at your best. If people can't put out the dps required for dragon soul fights in 370-380 gear level, they are not good. It's that simple. It's not because they lack gear, it's because they're hitting their buttons wrong (wrong buttons, wrong order, wrong time, whatever, take your pick).
I wasn't there at the time, but my previous guild Juggernaut was famous for rerolling during Sunwell (which was one of the issues that finally let blizz enable pve->pvp transfers, because they and fusion were actually willing to REROLL tog et onto a pvp server), and killed Brutallus in blues and greens, one of the big 'dps' check boss benchmarks.
Point is, gear always helps dps, but gear is only a hindrance when you're already playing to your capabilities. Otherwise it's just a fucking excuse.
Subliminal
Member
I'm not trying to claim that I've been in raids where people have been trying really hard and are tragically unable to push dps. Although with dps for ~375 geared dps in my guild averaging at 20k fights are still a struggle for dps, I'm a tank so I don't get involved in that stuff but DS has been alot more gearcheck-y than FL or T11 for us, It hasn't just been ultraxion; We've wiped on yor'sahj cause of shitty dps.
But yeah, My point was: Normals are still challenging for guilds and people who do normals, perhaps slightly less challenging than last tier since everyone has been doing LFR, seeing the fights and getting gear but they're not the complete faceroll they seem to be advertised as.
But yeah, My point was: Normals are still challenging for guilds and people who do normals, perhaps slightly less challenging than last tier since everyone has been doing LFR, seeing the fights and getting gear but they're not the complete faceroll they seem to be advertised as.
Alex
Member
Me and a friend came back for a couple weeks for 4.3 back when it hit, queued up LFR with heroic T11 and a couple PvP pieces in the bag to cheese the last ilvl he needed and proceeded to top DPS on almost every fight.
Gear is important, especially when you're scraping by on heroic progression, but it's very overstated in almost every other situation. Just another excuse of the community to leech and complain, which as someone who isn't particularly good at video games always makes me wonder if half the people who play this have this as their first game. It takes like 15 mins on EJ/Class forums, some dummy practice and a hair of common sense to do good DPS in this game. Why people sink in ~100-200 hours of leveling and grinding to get to the end then throw up their hands when asked to put in that 15 mins to actually be a decent member of a group always eludes me.
During that LFR we also had AFK people, people just auto attacking, people ignoring all mechanics and orders, etc and I just dont know what these people are getting out of anything. Do they just show up to roll on the loot? Why, if you're not going to use it and try to progress and participate? It's usually pretty easy to see past stuff like this and understand the psychology behind things but I just come up blank when it comes to this shit.
Gear is important, especially when you're scraping by on heroic progression, but it's very overstated in almost every other situation. Just another excuse of the community to leech and complain, which as someone who isn't particularly good at video games always makes me wonder if half the people who play this have this as their first game. It takes like 15 mins on EJ/Class forums, some dummy practice and a hair of common sense to do good DPS in this game. Why people sink in ~100-200 hours of leveling and grinding to get to the end then throw up their hands when asked to put in that 15 mins to actually be a decent member of a group always eludes me.
During that LFR we also had AFK people, people just auto attacking, people ignoring all mechanics and orders, etc and I just dont know what these people are getting out of anything. Do they just show up to roll on the loot? Why, if you're not going to use it and try to progress and participate? It's usually pretty easy to see past stuff like this and understand the psychology behind things but I just come up blank when it comes to this shit.
Syphon Filter
Member
Who is on the Horde side? Add me to your friend list
Liferebooted
Banned
tried to join the horde guild on area 52 a few times now but the bitches just fucking ignore my whispers.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Could invite you right now, but I'm on my Windows partition downloading Deus Ex. Sorry that people are ignoring you.
wonderdung
Member
For H. Morchok everyone is fairly even, but I waste DPS time because our group setup ensures that I die if I don't juggle armors for stomps. This is specific to my raid of course, but the "dps during blood" bit is pretty unreliable/overrated as the blood is buggy as hell on heroic. I get 3 fireballs in at most, occasionally I have to outrange my spells to not die.
For H. Yorsahj melee stays on boss and doesn't have to scorch during blue phases. (We do this correctly... i.e. we save balls at low health and pop them immediately, but I still run into mana problems and occasionally juggle armors so I have mana to AOE plus some mitigation.)
For H. Zonozz whoever is stuck on boss the whole fight is 30k ahead of anyone else. It's a meters-are-irrelevant fight in the same vein as Alysrazor.
Hagara is pretty even. I lose to melee probably from moving around to intercept ice lances plus lack of decent, on-demand AOE for ice tombs. But our melee were 4-8k above our top ranged on our last kill.
Ultraxion is the closest thing to a patchwork... winning or losing that is down to crit lottery.
Warlord seems pretty heavily melee favored as they don't have to move around and can cleave the shit out of adds. Our melee were 40k and 35k respectively on our last kill and all of our ranged were even at 21k.
Spine favors arcane more than fire even outside of heroic so this is somewhat my fault, but tons of little adds that die quickly isn't a great situation for anyone with a cast bar... plus ranged has wasted DPS time switching to corruptions for grip. On our last kill melee were both 5-6k ahead of ranged.
On our last Madness kill both melee were ahead of my 49k DPS by 3k and 6k respectively. I think part of it is that they don't have to single target tentacles, but it could just be that multi dotting is a fail strat as fire on that fight and my globals are better served nuking with the haste and damage buffs.
Anyway I'm mostly going off what I observe in our own meters. It could just be that our melee is better geared or that I'm a fail player but given that our melee and ranged are clumped together in two distinct sections of the dps chart I think it's a trend of the instance.
Another possibility is that the melee AOE trinket and mind flay tentacle sword make warriors overpowered as hell.
Not trying to say they're easy for everyone, everyone has different levels of skill and capabilities within the game (and for raiding this is largely a collective level, where a few good players can elevate but you really need to raise your average to notice a difference).
My point was merely that gear is NOT the deciding factor at work here
To add to the mage talk, fire mages are the singular best dps this tier. If a mage can respec/reforge arcane for fights where that's better as well then it's no question, mages are THE best dps right now. Just go glance at wol.
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Dragon_Soul/dps/#tab-25Heroic
wonderdung
Member
WoL just means that fire has the highest DPS potential this tier, not the highest average DPS. Fire is still pretty dependent on crits for decent DPS, but you can't get over 40% from gear at current ilevels.
About fire mage stats, i heard that getting your haste to 2005 should be a priority to get another dot tick, i'm already there, but im not sure if i should reforge or gem for mastery or crit after that. Both seems pretty good but my crit is not even at 20% right now.
Unless you're killing a boss in a minute or less your crits will average out, you cast a LOT of spells over time. Yes, obviously there's rng and variance, but that's true of any spec not just fire. You won't go 6 minutes on Ultraxion without hovering within say, 5% of your character sheet's crit chance. Fire mages rape face, obviously if you want to parse on wol you need things like power infusions and legendary staves, but so do any other casters. Even without those things you can easily top your own guild's meters.
Fire mages have the highest AVERAGE dps this tier. Warriors do well on ultraxxion due to unlimited rage, and rogues do well on zonozz due to Blade Flurry, but that's ABOUT it for competition.
Highest DPS potential is not good enough for you? You need to be playing the singular class that is best at everything to be happy? It's pretty ridiculous for a mage to be complaining about being screwed on dps compared to melee in this tier.
For Zonozz and Yorsahj, yes there might be a few melee that get to stay on the boss which will beat the range on the meters, but if range got to do the same, they could beat the melee too. The melee are the ones that are "screwed" because they aern't good at helping beat the boss mechanics (the adds).
Also, I can assure you that Hagara is no where even, atleast on Heroic, where the casters just stand in the middle to dps 3 of the crystals while melee is running around doing next to no dps during the frost phase.
For spine, mages are THE most highly desired class for the fight, how you could possibly complain about this fight is beyond me. Dps on the small adds are meaningless.
For madness, I guess if your guild's strategy is to have only the casters single target the tentacles, then yeah, melee might come out ahead. But for guilds that have both the melee and range on tentacles, range comes out ahead. Range is also better at killing the meteor.
It sounds to me like your guild just has bad caster players and good melee players, I can assure you that range should not be doing just 21k on Warmaster.
Syphon Filter
Member
Who do i talk to for i can join the gaf guild? I'm on Horde...
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/guild/area-52/NeoGAF Believe/roster?sort=rank&dir=a
Not sure if Rank 3 can invite.
keeblerdrow
Member
Every rank can invite. There's not one person in the entire guild that cannot invite. Designed to never turn anyone down from GAF.
Syphon Filter
Member
What about the alliance guild?