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World of Warcraft |OT3|

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If someone says "it's a good thing when people don't see content," I just turn the video off. GC has been eviserating people on the forums recently for basing arguments around the idea that other players not doing stuff makes hardcore players "feel" better.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
If someone says "it's a good thing when people don't see content," I just turn the video off. GC has been eviserating people on the forums recently for basing arguments around the idea that other players not doing stuff makes hardcore players "feel" better.

Which he absolutely should. They go through all that work to make the content, so all of 100 people can play it?
 

Entropia

No One Remembers
Saw this on Reddit a few weeks ago. Still don't agree with him.

"Less than one percent saw Naxx and it was a good thing" No...no...

[edit]

And him saying that a player who just came into WoW would need to complete BWD, BOT, Throne and Fireland before they could do DS is just dumb.

"The player base seems to think they want this content,(raids) they don't need it. There's lots of content for them"

Then he goes on to complain about LFR.

Craziness.

I agree to an extent, that a player shouldn't be able to go from level 85 to the immediate current content. I am for having to do previous content to be able to get to the current content. Whether it be from attunments or gearing up.
 

Fjordson

Member
If someone says "it's a good thing when people don't see content," I just turn the video off. GC has been eviserating people on the forums recently for basing arguments around the idea that other players not doing stuff makes hardcore players "feel" better.
Yep. Game ain't perfect, but that sort of idea is really dumb.
 
Decided to farm the whelplings. Got Emerald after ~30 minutes and currently farming ebon whelps in Wetlands. Anybody else have experience getting them?
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
Even though i have quitted since long ago i found this video where a guy explains what he feels has gone wrong with the game the last years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8rd0-zVIBVo

Agreeing with every point he makes.

/discuss

He mentions TBC raid content as being hard and taking a long time to work through. I remember it being super bugged which is what made it hard. Guilds started to plow through a lot of it once they fixed a few of the encounters. Granted a lot of the fights were a decent difficulty level, but his rant about why progress took so long seems a bit off.

Raiding was fun back in the day and I haven't done it in a long time (minus LFR) since I'm older now and don't have time. I'd imagine a lot of the original raiders are in the same boat as me. Having hard bosses and huge expansive dungeons to look forward to was awesome, but now that the game is so old how many people want to put in the time Vanilla required to raid?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
He mentions TBC raid content as being hard and taking a long time to work through. I remember it being super bugged which is what made it hard. Guilds started to plow through a lot of it once they fixed a few of the encounters. Granted a lot of the fights were a decent difficulty level, but his rant about why progress took so long seems a bit off.

Raiding was fun back in the day and I haven't done it in a long time (minus LFR) since I'm older now and don't have time. I'd imagine a lot of the original raiders are in the same boat as me. Having hard bosses and huge expansive dungeons to look forward to was awesome, but now that the game is so old how many people want to put in the time Vanilla required to raid?

Your right, it wasn't hard. It was buggy. And the trash took forever to get through, that's why it took so long. It was like 30 pulls between bosses sometimes, the bosses were easy. The only challenge came from the fact that the classes were still half baked at that point. Only pallies could aoe tank, tanks could be hit for random spike damage, some specs didn't even work right. Half the time it was more of a fight against the mechanics of the class than the boss.
 
Speaking of trash...

No one has a full appreciation of trash unless they raided Trial of the Crusader in 3.2.

Trash (and raid-drop epics) are a good, glorious thing that keeps the experience week-to-week fresh. If anything was learned that patch, fuck boss rushes.

Though speaking of rushes, I would like to see the challenge mode dungeons expanded to raids. Seems like there's a decent shot of that happening by 5.2 or 5.2, if not 5.1 (the X.1 patches have tended not to have new systems so much as other content).
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Speaking of trash...

No one has a full appreciation of trash unless they raided Trial of the Crusader in 3.2.

Trash (and raid-drop epics) are a good, glorious thing that keeps the experience week-to-week fresh. If anything was learned that patch, fuck boss rushes.

Though speaking of rushes, I would like to see the challenge mode dungeons expanded to raids. Seems like there's a decent shot of that happening by 5.2 or 5.2, if not 5.1 (the X.1 patches have tended not to have new systems so much as other content).

I didn't mind ToC other than the fact that it killed Ulduar. I suppose if it was *worse* gear than Ulduar so you raided it to get ready for Ulduar, it would have been okay.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Speaking of trash...

No one has a full appreciation of trash unless they raided Trial of the Crusader in 3.2.

Trash (and raid-drop epics) are a good, glorious thing that keeps the experience week-to-week fresh. If anything was learned that patch, fuck boss rushes.

Though speaking of rushes, I would like to see the challenge mode dungeons expanded to raids. Seems like there's a decent shot of that happening by 5.2 or 5.2, if not 5.1 (the X.1 patches have tended not to have new systems so much as other content).

I agree, but an half hour of trash is a bit much. You need trash, but it's about finding a magic number.
 

Daante

Member
Raiding was fun back in the day and I haven't done it in a long time (minus LFR) since I'm older now and don't have time. I'd imagine a lot of the original raiders are in the same boat as me. Having hard bosses and huge expansive dungeons to look forward to was awesome, but now that the game is so old how many people want to put in the time Vanilla required to raid?

Would the Knights of the round materia in FF VII felt awesome and truly epic once you finally got your gold chocobo and could visit the island where it was stranded?

Oh wait everybody paid the same price for the game so everyone should just be able to walk there without putting in effort, dedication and time and grab it right?

I dont see Wow being hurt or loosing subs if they actually went back and made attunments for raids, and put in content that demanded more dedication, gear checks and skill from the playerbase, if they wanted to see and experience it.
If they made it with the right balance i think it would rather grow and make the game better and more special.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Would the Knights of the round materia in FF VII felt awesome and truly epic once you finally got your gold chocobo and could visit the island where it was stranded?

Oh wait everybody paid the same price for the game so everyone should just be able to walk there without putting in effort, dedication and time and grab it right?

I dont see Wow being hurt or loosing subs if they actually went back and made attunments for raids, and put in content that demanded more dedication, gear checks and skill from the playerbase, if they wanted to see and experience it.
If they made it with the right balance i think it would rather grow and make the game better and more special.

With the right balance would mean that it'd need to be easy enough where people who aren't too good at the game can do it which goes against what the guy in the video wants. The guy in the video wants shit to be near impossible to do so if you actually get it done, it's something really, really special.

Something that is just dumb and wastes the dev's time. Why make raid content that only one percent of your player base will see?
 

Daante

Member
Bad example. Knights of the Round would be a legendary, not a raid dungeon. Legendaries still take quite some effort to get.

The hole Kotr materia point i was trying to make is that it should be a journey to see and experience certain places and to get certain items. It was a journey to raid in tbc cause raids took dedication, preparation, attunements, gear checks etc. As the raiding in the later instances demanded a lot it made the experience better and more special compared to how things got with WOTLK and Cata.
 
Which he absolutely should. They go through all that work to make the content, so all of 100 people can play it?
Yes and no. You don't just make a game so easy that everyone can just get right to the end and finish it, which is sort of what Blizzard is doing with their current and newer content. Then it's not really a game anymore. Look at any past or current, and successful, console or PC game. If the developers of any of those games had just thought, "well, if we make our game a challenge, no one will play it. So let's just make our game EZ mode and call it a day." Do you think those games would have been as successful?

There has to be a challenge. What would games like Metroid, Zelda, Halo, Doom, Diablo, and Starcraft be like if approached the same way? I don't cry that I'm not good enough to compete in a SCII tournament. If I did, people would say I need to get better at the game. And they would be right. In the same way, people need to actually learn how to play world of warcraft before they cry that they don't get to see the harder content. No one is excluded from end game content except for the people who choose to be excluded. I think that is generally the sentiment carried by the "hardcore" people complaining. It's not so much that they want to feel special. But a game should reward you for being good at it. Right now, I think the gear rewarded for LFR is too good. It needs to be at least a tier behind (ilevel-wise) the current raid. Give people some incentive to actually raid outside of LFR.

Personally, I really prefer a progression format that keeps multiple tiers of raiding relevant and viable. Perhaps they need to reduce the i-level jumps in gear between each raid, so that you don't immediately feel compelled to try and cheat your i-level to get into the most current raid. Or they need to increase the i-level more so that cheating your i-level is much much harder to accomplish. PVP gear is not helping. Regardless, LFR already makes it super easy to raid without a guild or friends, and I think a progreesion system would work flawlessly in MoP.

I also think the attunement quests would work really well in wow now, too. Before, they were a hassle, because of the travelling required, finding a group to do them with, the difficulty, etc.. But there are so many new features and improvements in the game now that they wouldn't be nearly the pain people remember. Everyone has fast flying mounts and you don't even have to be max level. LFD and LFR could be used for certain parts of a questline if needed. And Blizzard doesn't have to make them take forever or be a pain in the butt to complete.

Sometimes I feel like people look back at Vanilla or TBC with disdain for the wrong reasons. They look at the hassle it was back in the day to get geared up, attuned, etc and completely overlook that all the improvements currently would prevent the old hassle's from ever being a problem again. Raid progression would work. Everyone has easy access to fast flying mounts, gold, and LFD and LFR makes gearing up much simpler. Blizzard is definitely capable of implementing it without busting everyone's balls, but it's like they've chosen the diluted water path instead.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Yes and no. You don't just make a game so easy that everyone can just get right to the end and finish it, which is sort of what Blizzard is doing with their current and newer content. Then it's not really a game anymore. Look at any past or current, and successful, console or PC game. If the developers of any of those games had just thought, "well, if we make our game a challenge, no one will play it. So let's just make our game EZ mode and call it a day." Do you think those games would have been as successful?

There has to be a challenge. What would games like Metroid, Zelda, Halo, Doom, Diablo, and Starcraft be like if approached the same way? I don't cry that I'm not good enough to compete in a SCII tournament. If I did, people would say I need to get better at the game. And they would be right. In the same way, people need to actually learn how to play world of warcraft before they cry that they don't get to see the harder content. No one is excluded from end game content except for the people who choose to be excluded. I think that is generally the sentiment carried by the "hardcore" people complaining. It's not so much that they want to feel special. But a game should reward you for being good at it. Right now, I think the gear rewarded for LFR is too good. It needs to be at least a tier behind (ilevel-wise) the current raid. Give people some incentive to actually raid outside of LFR.

Personally, I really prefer a progression format that keeps multiple tiers of raiding relevant and viable. Perhaps they need to reduce the i-level jumps in gear between each raid, so that you don't immediately feel compelled to try and cheat your i-level to get into the most current raid. Or they need to increase the i-level more so that cheating your i-level is much much harder to accomplish. PVP gear is not helping. Regardless, LFR already makes it super easy to raid without a guild or friends, and I think a progreesion system would work flawlessly in MoP.

I also think the attunement quests would work really well in wow now, too. Before, they were a hassle, because of the travelling required, finding a group to do them with, the difficulty, etc.. But there are so many new features and improvements in the game now that they wouldn't be nearly the pain people remember. Everyone has fast flying mounts and you don't even have to be max level. LFD and LFR could be used for certain parts of a questline if needed. And Blizzard doesn't have to make them take forever or be a pain in the butt to complete.

Sometimes I feel like people look back at Vanilla or TBC with disdain for the wrong reasons. They look at the hassle it was back in the day to get geared up, attuned, etc and completely overlook that all the improvements currently would prevent the old hassle's from ever being a problem again. Raid progression would work. Everyone has easy access to fast flying mounts, gold, and LFD and LFR makes gearing up much simpler. Blizzard is definitely capable of implementing it without busting everyone's balls, but it's like they've chosen the diluted water path instead.
World of Warcraft is probably literally the most successful game of all time in terms of money generated. I don't think they need to take a clue from any other game based on its success. Losing like 10% of your subscriber based sn't a big deal at all given that the game is 7 years old. They're obviously doing something right.
 

Acidote

Member
Well guys, last night I renewed my account after many months in anticipation for MoP as I have to level a brand farming druid and professions for another character. I'll also start switching my shaman from Elemental to Enhacement as I've seen that they've destroyed the first one in the MoP beta.

In the meantime I'l help the remaining guildies that haven't completed all of the DS achievements after they beat DS HM a while ago, getting some of them myself in the process (never cared much for them).

H: Madness of Deathwing: 8697 (14.11%)
http://www.wowprogress.com/

Yet it is a similar (not the same) content that was beaten by a huge majority of the player base with the LFR or even normal. It is also a point of view: to me the only interesting part of HMs are new events like Sinestra, something that was missing in Firelands and DS. I've done a lot of HMs lately, but just because I wanted to keep playing and there was no new content. Until I said enough in January. And I agree with Blizzards position: they spent a lot of time developing content and people pay and play to experience it, so give them the chance good and bad. Just because I enjoyed it more when it was a single difficulty (or two!) doesn't mean I don't agree with them. I'm more worried about the decline of 25m. A big part of my enjoyment was playing a big game of coordination that was already nerfed from 40 to 25, and is now effectively nerfed from 25 to 10 even when 25m is still offered.
 
H: Madness of Deathwing: 8697 (14.11%)
http://www.wowprogress.com/
Oh you mean that boss that I've killed at least a dozen times in LFR? I'm sorry, i'm not interested in repeating the same content, but on a higher difficulty. There is zero incentive to do hard modes now unless you're an achievement whore or you really want one of the rare mount drops off the last boss. I like and want a challenge, but not when it's rehashed content. If LFR did not exist, that number (guilds who have finished heroic madness) would be higher. If there weren't hard modes, which are simply hard versions of already downed bosses, I think the number would be even higher, still. I think the numbers for heroic madness are skewed because there are less people wasting their time on it. I see no reason to even be in a guild right now outside of some of the perks. I can just earn enough gold and pay to be run through a raid and for all the drops i want. Otherwise, I can go into LFR and look identical to everyone else. Homogenization at its best...

I've never been a fan of hard modes, not because I don't like a challenge, but because it's just repeated crap and i hate that. There is no feeling of progression, and only a little sense in accomplishment in downing the same boss you already worked hard to down previously on normal. Instead, I feel like i'm wasting my time on blizzard's mouse wheel all because people complained that a game was too hard. I'd rather a game's longevity result in content being difficult enough that it requires some time to get through, rather than being force fed repeated content of a higher difficulty for the sake of extending the content's life cycle. If I'm playing an MMORPG, which is essentially just a game where I waste hours of time doing random crap anyway, I welcome content that is difficult and; therefore, gives me something to waste my time doing. But repeated stuff? no thank you.

And the reason so few people got to see Nax was because they released it right before TBC. My guild was just finishing up AQ40 and then fell apart in anticipation for the expansion. I'm still trying to remember anyone complaining about not being able to see end-game content to be honest. I just don't remember it at all. I wasn't on forums a lot then like I am now, and maybe that's part of it. But for me, I never did C'thun or Nax until practically Wrath came out. It wasn't an issue, just something I continued to work toward as a player. That was the world in world of warcraft. Now it's not so much a world as it is an amusement park where everyone just lines up to ride all of the rides.

EDIT:
World of Warcraft is probably literally the most successful game of all time in terms of money generated. I don't think they need to take a clue from any other game based on its success. Losing like 10% of your subscriber based sn't a big deal at all given that the game is 7 years old. They're obviously doing something right.
Hold on cowboy. I was just saying that progression would work and it wouldn't be as bad as what people remember from vanilla or TBC. And it's not about taking a clue from any specific game, necessarily. Games by definition should be challenging. And I'm not saying that world of warcraft isn't challenging, even though for me personally, I hate repeating the same content for the sake of making the game a challenge. I simply prefer the one-and-done format of killing bosses in the first two expansions.
 

TheYanger

Member
I just think the difficulty thread with the blue posts has been shocking to read. I don't get it. I know I'm hardcore, but I still don't.
LFR should be sufficient to letting everyone see things. Normal MAYBE could get nerfed over time for organized guilds that don't really want to try heroics, but what is the point of nerfing the difficult content designed for people looking for it.
My guild didn't get 'stuck' on ny bosses this tier, spine took a couple weeks because it was spine, it STILL got nerfed the day after we beat it, they nerf shit so fucking fast it's retarded. They can claim people have a chance to get in before it gets nerfed all they want, but the truth is unless you raid 5 nights a week in a top 100 guild, you will not have time to do it.
At 3 nights a week I want to say it was like...

Week 1: Morchock first night, Zonozz a night and a half, hagara half a night (rest was on clearing normal and clearing LFR, it takes time).
Week 2: 2 nights farming Morchock Zonozz Hagara and adding Yorsahj. Next night pulling Ultra a few times and clearing.
Week 3: Farm heroics + Ultra 2 days. Clear third day (Note because of the addition of LFR, clearing now takes longer than it did in previous tiers)
Week 4: Christmas and New Years. We got a single raid night in and farm cleared the bosses we'd already done.
Week 5: Farm content, Warmaster.
Week 6-7: Work on Spine and farming (Farming takes about 1/3 of the raid week this early in a tier - there are wipes and mistakes). Killed spine monday night of week 7.
Week 8: NERFS. Kill Madness after just a few pulls. We've obviously since done it without the buff multiple times, but we didn't even get to see the fight un-nerfed and we killed a boss a week even over the holidays on average.

Not counting the holiday week where only the MOST hardcore guilds in the world still raid a decent schedule, if at all, we had 6 weeks to kill 8 bosses on heroic in order to have had the chance to kill things before the nerf? That's fucking insane. Any guild that isn't satisfied with a boss a week progress is fucking nuts (Or is one of the guilds beating the nerf anyway, I've been there). How fast do they expect you to go before nerfs? Why nerf it while it's so fresh? if someone is stuck for a couple weeks that's NOTHING compared to the freaking year we have to farm the zone. That kind of shit removes incentive to even try.
 

Dresden

Member
Deputy Moonman said:
If LFR did not exist, that number (guilds who have finished heroic madness) would be higher.
stats plz

In light of just how many people saw Sunwell or Naxx or (insert old raid content), that claim sounds like bullshit to me.
 
Pah! There is some bug that makes all of my characters have a muscular human stomach texture regardless of race, as soon as I change any chest gear. And it doesn't appear to work if I change it back.
 

Rokam

Member
stats plz

In light of just how many people saw Sunwell or Naxx or (insert old raid content), that claim sounds like bullshit to me.

Yeah his stats are wrong, but I agree with Yanger the nerfs came way too fast.
ach_5803_6116_s.png
 
stats plz

In light of just how many people saw Sunwell or Naxx or (insert old raid content), that claim sounds like bullshit to me.

There are no stats, and Sunwell is a good counter example. I'm just going from memory of my own experience. I remember Nax being released fairly close to TBC, and I know my guild didn't even bother with it because the expansion was so close. And then there were guilds who had been running Nax and stopped for the same reason. The starting gear in TBC was very high i-level in comparison, which I think gave people less motivation to keep working on vanilla content. But that's more of my own theory i guess.

And I apologize if I was being a little hostile earlier. I don't even know why I get that way. I'm totally not upset nor wanting to be snarky with anyone. Gonna go sit in the corner for 5 minutes now.

EDIT:
I don't know why you guys keep talking about stats. There are no stats... There is no way to know if more guilds would have downed heroic madness if LFR didn't exist. If I'm not mistaken, don't people consider heroic Rag a harder encounter than heroic madness? Not sure if your graph is a fair comparison. I mentioned hard modes too, which doesn't make any sense, so just disregard lol.
 

Acidote

Member
EDIT:
I don't know why you guys keep talking about stats. There are no stats... There is no way to know if more guilds would have downed heroic madness if LFR didn't exist. If I'm not mistaken, don't people consider heroic Rag a harder encounter than heroic madness? Not sure if your graph is a fair comparison. I mentioned hard modes too, which doesn't make any sense, so just disregard lol.

The "difficult" HM encounter in Dragon Sould would be Spine, not Madness. It's weird, but true, the second to last boss is harder than the last one.
 

Enosh

Member
Oh you mean that boss that I've killed at least a dozen times in LFR? I'm sorry, i'm not interested in repeating the same content, but on a higher difficulty.
wut? I don't even know what to say, I don't see how you can go "well done LFR, cleared everything now"

If LFR did not exist, that number (guilds who have finished heroic madness) would be higher
H: Ragnaros: 6424 (9.57%)
H: Nefarian: 3560 (4.71%)
H: Cho'gall: 5336 (7.07%)
H: Sinestra: 2147 (2.84%)
H: Al'Akir: 3078 (4.08%)
H: The Lich King (25): 1101 (1.85%)
H: The Lich King (10): 5664 (6.71%)

nope
or at least highly unlikely
 

Formosa

Member
Hi looking to start playing WOW but some questions:

1) If I would like to buy gears, does the gear price cost more than D3?
2) Does PvP have its own gear sets just for PvP?
3) How long did it took you to learn to play the game? (honestly)
4) Does Gaf have a guild? How many?
5) Where can I get the game cheap not used? (WoW Vanilla to MOP)

Thanks :)
 

aesop

Member
Hi looking to start playing WOW but some questions:

1) If I would like to buy gears, does the gear price cost more than D3?
2) Does PvP have its own gear sets just for PvP?
3) How long did it took you to learn to play the game? (honestly)
4) Does Gaf have a guild? How many?
5) Where can I get the game cheap not used? (WoW Vanilla to MOP)

Thanks :)

1) Do you mean with real money? You can't without going through some shady operators.
2) Yes
3) Honestly? It's not very hard to learn the core abilities and how to play your character. The game does a pretty good job of giving you abilities slowly while you're leveling so that you'll learn them a few a time. By the end of the level grind, you should have a pretty good handle on your character. Learning encounters is a different story.
4) There are two? Someone correct me here.
5) Amazon is your best bet. You can get to Cata (all that's available now) for 38.97. MoP isn't available yet.

If you're new to the game, I'd be happy to send you a recruit-a-friend invite.
 

Tarazet

Member
Hi looking to start playing WOW but some questions:

1) If I would like to buy gears, does the gear price cost more than D3?
2) Does PvP have its own gear sets just for PvP?
3) How long did it took you to learn to play the game? (honestly)
4) Does Gaf have a guild? How many?
5) Where can I get the game cheap not used? (WoW Vanilla to MOP)

Thanks :)

1) No, it doesn't cost millions of gold on the AH, and you can also make your own end-game gear if you want. You get the best gear from dungeons and raids.
2) Yes. Again, it's possible to make these.
3) I had someone in the room with me who had played since WoW vanilla teaching me where to go and what to do.. it still took me a good month to get a handle on everything, and I'm level 84, so I'll have to learn a whole bunch of new things at 85.
5) First play it free up to level 20.. then you buy the pack on Battle.net to get you all the expansions up to Cataclysm, I think it was $40? MoP is a separate expansion and a preorder.
 

Formosa

Member
1) Do you mean with real money? You can't without going through some shady operators.
2) Yes
3) Honestly? It's not very hard to learn the core abilities and how to play your character. Learning encounters is a different story.
4) There are two? Someone correct me here.
5) Amazon is your best bet. You can get to Cata (all that's available now) for 38.97. MoP isn't available yet.

:)

1) ya with real $. I still need more info on this one. For example, how much would be an average godly end-game legendary sword cost in USD? Thanks.
 

Formosa

Member
1) No, it doesn't cost millions of gold on the AH, and you can also make your own end-game gear if you want. You get the best gear from dungeons and raids.
2) Yes. Again, it's possible to make these.
3) I had someone in the room with me who had played since WoW vanilla teaching me where to go and what to do.. it still took me a good month to get a handle on everything, and I'm level 84, so I'll have to learn a whole bunch of new things at 85.
5) First play it free up to level 20.. then you buy the pack on Battle.net to get you all the expansions up to Cataclysm, I think it was $40? MoP is a separate expansion and a preorder.

1) Cool, so it's not as horrible as D3.
 

aesop

Member
:)

1) ya with real $. I still need more info on this one. For example, how much would be an average godly end-game legendary sword cost in USD? Thanks.

The best weapons in the game are BoP (bind on pickup) and can't be traded, i.e. sold. Unless you buy a character (which I don't recommend) there isn't a way to do this.
 

ampere

Member
Hi looking to start playing WOW but some questions:

1) If I would like to buy gears, does the gear price cost more than D3?
2) Does PvP have its own gear sets just for PvP?
3) How long did it took you to learn to play the game? (honestly)
4) Does Gaf have a guild? How many?
5) Where can I get the game cheap not used? (WoW Vanilla to MOP)

Thanks :)

Gear binds to your character (usually) in WoW, so you don't often buy gear, you get it from killing bosses. There are some exceptions, but for the most part gear comes from bosses in dungeons and raids.

PvP does have its own gear sets. PvP gear has a stat (resilience) that makes you take less damage from other players and it has set bonuses that make some of your abilities have a new PvP friendly bonus.

Hard to say, you can learn the basics very fast, but you can always keep getting better.

GAF guild, not really. There's an inactive one on Area 52. I wouldn't worry about that though, the Diablo 3 battletag system will apply to WoW in 2 months so you can add people on GAF that way and play with them regardless of realm or guild.

Best prices on the game would probably come from Amazon (note: you do not have to buy Burning Crusade anymore, it comes with OG WoW. The Battle Chest with OG and BC is still cheaper on Amazon than just OG)

Battle Chest $12

Wrath of the Lich King $12

Cataclysm $15

Mist of Pandaria $40

You can also do a Recruit a Friend promotion with someone which means when you level with them you both get a 3x EXP bonus. If you do want to do that, post here that you're looking for someone to recruit you and get recruited before entering CD keys and making the account.
 

Robin64

Member
The argument that you don't want to do Heroic DS or future raids because you already saw it in LFR and so don't want to do the same content again is hilarious.

Here's an idea: Don't use LFR.

Let those that want to use it continue to use it (hello), and you can just ignore it.
 

Draxal

Member
Problem with raiding mmo's is the skill difference between the most skilled players and unskilled players is gigantic.

LFR was pretty much a concession that blizzard couldn't fix it, which is fine with me.
 

aesop

Member
The argument that you don't want to do Heroic DS or future raids because you already saw it in LFR and so don't want to do the same content again is hilarious.

Here's an idea: Don't use LFR.

Let those that want to use it continue to use it (hello), and you can just ignore it.

It seems like the hardcore crowd doesn't want there to be options. Don't like how fast Blizz nerfs content? Turn off the nerfs. Don't like LFR? Don't use it. Want uber challenging raids? Raid heroic.

If you have a problem with casuals having access to end game gear (even the LFR versions of it) then I think you should stop playing the game. But hey, that's just my opinion.

(this isn't directed at the quoted poster)
 
If you have a problem with casuals having access to end game gear (even the LFR versions of it) then I think you should stop playing the game. But hey, that's just my opinion.

My brother used to raid hardcore in classic WoW and TBC.

He quit not long before WOTLK hit because he didn't feel "casual" players should get purple items.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I just think the difficulty thread with the blue posts has been shocking to read. I don't get it. I know I'm hardcore, but I still don't.
LFR should be sufficient to letting everyone see things. Normal MAYBE could get nerfed over time for organized guilds that don't really want to try heroics, but what is the point of nerfing the difficult content designed for people looking for it.
My guild didn't get 'stuck' on ny bosses this tier, spine took a couple weeks because it was spine, it STILL got nerfed the day after we beat it, they nerf shit so fucking fast it's retarded. They can claim people have a chance to get in before it gets nerfed all they want, but the truth is unless you raid 5 nights a week in a top 100 guild, you will not have time to do it.
At 3 nights a week I want to say it was like...

Week 1: Morchock first night, Zonozz a night and a half, hagara half a night (rest was on clearing normal and clearing LFR, it takes time).
Week 2: 2 nights farming Morchock Zonozz Hagara and adding Yorsahj. Next night pulling Ultra a few times and clearing.
Week 3: Farm heroics + Ultra 2 days. Clear third day (Note because of the addition of LFR, clearing now takes longer than it did in previous tiers)
Week 4: Christmas and New Years. We got a single raid night in and farm cleared the bosses we'd already done.
Week 5: Farm content, Warmaster.
Week 6-7: Work on Spine and farming (Farming takes about 1/3 of the raid week this early in a tier - there are wipes and mistakes). Killed spine monday night of week 7.
Week 8: NERFS. Kill Madness after just a few pulls. We've obviously since done it without the buff multiple times, but we didn't even get to see the fight un-nerfed and we killed a boss a week even over the holidays on average.

Not counting the holiday week where only the MOST hardcore guilds in the world still raid a decent schedule, if at all, we had 6 weeks to kill 8 bosses on heroic in order to have had the chance to kill things before the nerf? That's fucking insane. Any guild that isn't satisfied with a boss a week progress is fucking nuts (Or is one of the guilds beating the nerf anyway, I've been there). How fast do they expect you to go before nerfs? Why nerf it while it's so fresh? if someone is stuck for a couple weeks that's NOTHING compared to the freaking year we have to farm the zone. That kind of shit removes incentive to even try.

I don't think you're looking at it from Blizzard's perspective. Their job is to keep subs numbers up, not make the game a specific "fun" way. They do nerfs over time because it keeps sub numbers high from month to month. Making Heroic mode accessible to players who are basically good enough to complete normal and maybe the first few heroic bosses keeps them progressing for a long time.

Honestly, at the point at which you can turn off the buff AND at the point at which they are giving out achievements for doing so, I think you're just being unreasonable.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
wut? I don't even know what to say, I don't see how you can go "well done LFR, cleared everything now"


H: Ragnaros: 6424 (9.57%)
H: Nefarian: 3560 (4.71%)
H: Cho'gall: 5336 (7.07%)
H: Sinestra: 2147 (2.84%)
H: Al'Akir: 3078 (4.08%)
H: The Lich King (25): 1101 (1.85%)
H: The Lich King (10): 5664 (6.71%)

nope
or at least highly unlikely

Agreed with both points.

The people who only do LFR and the people who can do Heroic Madness are not the same people.
 

Sciz

Member
Making Heroic mode accessible to players who are basically good enough to complete normal and maybe the first few heroic bosses keeps them progressing for a long time.

Prime example of that right here. My raid's been chipping away at heroic DS for the last few months, just getting Spine down the week the 30% nerf went out (and we probably couldn't have done it at 25%, as close as we're cutting getting the first tendon down in one pass). If everyone in the raid had a top notch computer, a perfectly reliable internet connection, and the time to gear up alts to switch out fight-by-fight, it probably wouldn't have taken quite so long. But we don't, so progression has been slow and steady and we'll probably drop Madness just before 5.0 hits, a position we would absolutely not be in without the nerfs.
 
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