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[Bizazedo]

I hate to say it, but I don't include the revamped 1-60 as part of the Cataclysm content.

While it was certainly a Herculean effort to do that, it wasn't a part of the shipped game. The game changed the old world regardless if I had Cataclsym or not. What matters, to me, in an expansion is the content when you step into the new zone, the raids, the dungeons, the quests, etc. The old world wasn't a part of Mount Hyjal, Uldum, etc.

I'd have to say that's fair and doesn't help the perception for Cataclysm.

I am a sucker and went through all the old content. I love lore and the new stuff, honestly, was outstanding. Silverpine --> Hillsbrad are still standouts to me.

That being said, I know people who still haven't gone through any of that, even on their maxxed out characters, and so it doesn't even register as Cataclysm content. And to your point, you very well could argue it's not.

To Blizzard I'm sure it was, but taken independantly, it's not a part of the sale package.

I think it's kind of interesting, this it the first time Horde players actually do something legitimately evil. I still prefer the "both sides have legitimate quarrels with each other" cold war style from Vanilla and BC, but the more we move away from having a true antagonist, the more this works. Of course Thrall will step in and redeem the Horde or something, but until then...

And now on to something that makes me look bad.

Is it wrong that I am rooting for Garrosh and want to smash the Alliance?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Like a half-elf, but with scales.

I mean, yeah, he can go into his helf form to get some nookie, but like he's still actually a dragon.

Is she gonna lay eggs?

 

[Berordn]

And now on to something that makes me look bad.

Is it wrong that I am rooting for Garrosh and want to smash the Alliance?

Garrosh as a legitimately evil character instead of the Mary Sue "good guy" he was throughout Wrath and Cataclysm is inherently more interesting. I'm kind of interested in seeing how it plays out in the end now, instead of just dismissing it as I did with everything else involving him before.

I mean, yeah, he can go into his helf form to get some nookie, but like he's still actually a dragon.

Is she gonna lay eggs?

...suffer mortal, as your pathetic womb betrays you?

 

[Robin64]

To be fair, the Horde players aren't doing the evil act. The book (oh this again) makes it quite clear that very few people in the Horde know of Garrosh's plans with the bomb. Us Horde players are just a small group that have been asked to rescue Thalen. We don't know about the nuke until the last minute.

 

[Bizazedo]

To be fair, the Horde players aren't doing the evil act. The book (oh this again) makes it quite clear that very few people in the Horde know of Garrosh's plans with the bomb. Us Horde players are just a small group that have been asked to rescue Thalen. We don't know about the nuke until the last minute.

Sure, but to take it farther....

Why is the bomb a bad thing?

The Alliance are the enemy and "we" just wiped out a large contingent of their military and (apparently) smashed their fleet.

Why isn't Garrosh being hailed as a hero?

 

[Robin64]

Why isn't Garrosh being hailed as a hero?

The effects are horrific, even by war standards.

Also, Garrosh has no way of knowing the Alliance were able to ferry out civilians from Theramore before the attack. As far as he's concerned, innocent people are still there and he doesn't care.

 

[Bizazedo]

The effects are horrific, even by war standards.

Also, Garrosh has no way of knowing the Alliance were able to ferry out civilians from Theramore before the attack. As far as he's concerned, innocent people are still there and he doesn't care.

Fair point.

I blame the scenario, then, for making me think in terms of "HORDE VICTORY".

 

[Angry Grimace]

Sure, but to take it farther....

Why is the bomb a bad thing?

The Alliance are the enemy and "we" just wiped out a large contingent of their military and (apparently) smashed their fleet.

Why isn't Garrosh being hailed as a hero?

Because magic and Orcs aside, it isn't very realistic to want to utterly annihilate your foes, including the women, children and elderly. Particularly not when the target in question has by far the closest diplomatic ties to your nation; I mean, prior to this attack, Theramore was practically neutral.

 

[Bizazedo]

Because magic and Orcs aside, it isn't very realistic to want to utterly annihilate your foes, including the women, children and elderly. Particularly not when the target in question has by far the closest diplomatic ties to your nation; I mean, prior to this attack, Theramore was practically neutral.

I saw no women or children in the scenario. That was purely a military target.

.

Jokes aside, this probably goes more to having not read the book.

 

[Kletian]

The effects are horrific, even by war standards.

Also, Garrosh has no way of knowing the Alliance were able to ferry out civilians from Theramore before the attack. As far as he's concerned, innocent people are still there and he doesn't care.

And he's essentially assassinating anyone who isnt hailing him as a hero now. A lot of the Horde (orcs mainly) legitimately see him as a war hero wiping an alliance pressence off of their continent.

Tauren, Trolls, and to a lesser extent Blood Elves and Forsaken, are now afraid to say anything for fear of murder by Malkorok and the Ko'kron

 

[Angry Grimace]

I saw no women or children in the scenario. That was purely a military target.

.

Jokes aside, this probably goes more to having not read the book.

I think if you count up the NPC population of Stormwind, it's like ~60 or 70 and then there's about the same number of unnamed peons, but the actual population is supposed to be around 200,000.

 

[Rösti]

Just announced by Kaivax:

The official Mists of Pandaria launch times are as follows:

• North and Latin American realms - 12:00 a.m. PDT, September 25
• European realms - 12:00 a.m. CEST, September 25
• Korean/Taiwan realms - 12:00 a.m. KST, September 27

With this expansion, we’re using a new bit of tech that will unlock the expansion content, make the intro quest magically pop up in your quest log, and allow you to begin playing the expansion immediately without the need to log out and back in. If everything goes as planned this will be a smooth transition to the adventures that await you in the new continent.

See you in-game!

Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6606351674

EDIT: Nevermind, got confused as always by these am pm thingies. 24 hour clock>12 hour clock.

 

[Sophia]

I'd have to say that's fair and doesn't help the perception for Cataclysm.

I am a sucker and went through all the old content. I love lore and the new stuff, honestly, was outstanding. Silverpine --> Hillsbrad are still standouts to me.

That being said, I know people who still haven't gone through any of that, even on their maxxed out characters, and so it doesn't even register as Cataclysm content. And to your point, you very well could argue it's not.

To Blizzard I'm sure it was, but taken independantly, it's not a part of the sale package

To be fair, who the hell would want to? That's like torture given the content is already piss poor easy at the required level in greens...

I wouldn't ever do the content on my maxed out Druid. It's just asking for boredom.

 

[Robin64]

One of the things I don't see mentioned much, but Kletian touched on above, is how Garrosh is dealing with people within the Horde that disagree with him.

In the book (so cliche now), several of the other race's generals are discussing Garrosh's shittiness in the Razor Hill inn. Garrosh's new pet, the Blackrock orc Malkorok, overhears and blows up the inn with them inside it. He's probably even more of a dick than Garrosh is.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I will say that I am slightly surprised. I figured Metzen would want to marry Jaina to another of his pet characters (that being Varian).

 

[Tamanon]

Malkorok will probably be revealed as the big bad. Just seems too odd.

 

[IsayFever]

Boy I really wish they'd move Metzen to cleaning floors or something. His storytelling and character developments are the worst part of every Blizzard game.

 

[Bizazedo]

To be fair, who the hell would want to? That's like torture given the content is already piss poor easy at the required level in greens...

I wouldn't ever do the content on my maxed out Druid. It's just asking for boredom.

The lore / quests / flow is outstanding. That and the quest where you're a questgiver is hilarious.

**

Separate query, if Jaina is upset and now leads the Kirin Tor...and the Horde just killed the Kirin Tor.....

Were they lazy / lacked resources to update Dalaran or are we still welcome / hunky dory / or it's a different part of the timeline, much like BC.

Betting the last.

 

[Entropia]

One of the things I don't see mentioned much, but Kletian touched on above, is how Garrosh is dealing with people within the Horde that disagree with him.

In the book (so cliche now), several of the other race's generals are discussing Garrosh's shittiness in the Razor Hill inn. Garrosh's new pet, the Blackrock orc Malkorok, overhears and blows up the inn with them inside it. He's probably even more of a dick than Garrosh is.

Malkorok will probably be revealed as the big bad. Just seems too odd.

This is probably tied into why RFC got changed....

 

[Tamanon]

The lore / quests / flow is outstanding. That and the quest where you're a questgiver is hilarious.

**

Separate query, if Jaina is upset and now leads the Kirin Tor...and the Horde just killed the Kirin Tor.....

Were they lazy / lacked resources to update Dalaran or are we still welcome / hunky dory / or it's a different part of the timeline, much like BC.

Betting the last.

Kirin Tor is still theoretically neutral, so the Horde should still be allowed in Dalaran.

If anything, some of them might take this as a reason they should maintain neutrality.

 

[eudaemonic]

...suffer mortal, as your pathetic womb betrays you?

>.<

 

[strafer]

Yogg-Saron is laughing at you all

 

[ZenaxPure]

And he's essentially assassinating anyone who isnt hailing him as a hero now. A lot of the Horde (orcs mainly) legitimately see him as a war hero wiping an alliance pressence off of their continent.

Tauren, Trolls, and to a lesser extent Blood Elves and Forsaken, are now afraid to say anything for fear of murder by Malkorok and the Ko'kron

This is something I am really worried about being wiped from the lore after MoP. The last few books have gone out of their way to paint the Orc race as a whole in being turned back to their "evil" ways (more misguided really, but evil). After Garrosh is dead and gone I really hope that they don't just pretend that never happened. I hope some of the Orcs who can't see how insane Garrosh has been see his future death as a martyr and splinter off from the Horde to cause some sort of civil war.

Maybe not that dramatic but they've gone out of their way to paint the Orcs as basically worshiping Garrosh at this point, I don't want to see them piss all of that away and everyone in Org forgets it happened.

 

[Robin64]

I agree totally. Don't treat this like an episode of The Simpsons, where nothing that happens matters. It has really exciting potential.

 

[Bizazedo]

I demand a banner that says "Garrosh was right!" when the Alliance attacks in the following expansion / patch.

 

[RoninChaos]

Because it also comes down to art assets as well as the manpower required to implement the quests. Very little geometry changed in the zones themselves, and when it did it was usually to implement architecture from Wrath or to make a scar to split zones that had previously been connected. "Drawing in" features like mountains and oceans where there was previously a large void in the world was probably much more intensive than some of the revamps.I know it probably took a lot of manpower for something like the Thousand Needles revamp, but on the same token there's Duskwood which mostly just saw some shuffling of mobs and reorganization of quests instead of an extensive redesign... and even the new zones reused a lot of Vanilla geometry.

Having played the beta for Mists and played through all of Cataclysm's zones at least once, I really have no trouble saying that they've put an equal amount of work into Pandaria, if not more.

I don't think your first paragraph is true. Have you actually seen the old zones from a sky high view? There was a reason we couldn't fly in the old world until cata. Most of the geometry you're saying they're re-using didn't exist. Some walls didn't have other sides too them, no textures on the back. The trees at the top were basically empty and had no textures. Some buildings had no second half. There was a MASSIVE amount of work done in cata, but everybody says the expansion sucked because they didn't see enough done at level cap compared to what was done to the old world. Yeah, some zones didn't change that much or have new quests, but just redoing that entire world is a massive undertaking that deserves a tremendous amount of respect.

 

[Robin64]

^ More than that, I don't feel like any of the Cata zones had nearly as much charm as the new old world zones. It's hard to put a finger on, but imagine Silverpine or Stonetalon Mountains or Hillsbrad as zones in the 80 - 85 game. Whole expansion would have been a lot more fun! Instead we got these disjointed, almost soulless zones. I don't like any of them, really.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The lore / quests / flow is outstanding. That and the quest where you're a questgiver is hilarious.

**

Separate query, if Jaina is upset and now leads the Kirin Tor...and the Horde just killed the Kirin Tor.....

Were they lazy / lacked resources to update Dalaran or are we still welcome / hunky dory / or it's a different part of the timeline, much like BC.

Betting the last.

You can't move Dalaran for a lot of reasons, including the fact that WLK has to stay there and Dalaran can't be added as Alliance friendly over the horde.'

Boy I really wish they'd move Metzen to cleaning floors or something. His storytelling and character developments are the worst part of every Blizzard game.

I for one, can't wait for the Varian's wedding quest line in MOP.

 

[Kletian]

I liked Deepholm for the atmosphere, and Mt Hyjal for the lore.

Uldum can go fuck itself though.

 

[strafer]

Speaking of old zones, I really miss old Silverpine Forest, it felt more scarier, the music and being stalked by those damn worgens.

 

[The Lamonster]

^ More than that, I don't feel like any of the Cata zones had nearly as much charm as the new old world zones. It's hard to put a finger on, but imagine Silverpine or Stonetalon Mountains or Hillsbrad as zones in the 80 - 85 game. Whole expansion would have been a lot more fun! Instead we got these disjointed, almost soulless zones. I don't like any of them, really.

Vashj'ir dude...it was amazing and beautiful and unique.

I am also a really big fan of Uldum. They were able to create another desert zone but one that felt completely different than Tanaris, Silithus, etc.

 

[Robin64]

Vashj'ir, really? I felt like that zone might as well have had one quest, "Kill 1000 naga", and be done with it. Damn beautiful though!

 

[eudaemonic]

That camel statue can go fuck itself though.

Fixed

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Speaking of old zones, I really miss old Silverpine Forest, it felt more scarier, the music and being stalked by those damn worgens.

They new version is really good, but the old one did have a certain charm, being a bit spooky and all. Especially with the Greymane wall being pretty ominous.

This is probably tied into why RFC got changed....

Did they change it again with Mists? Can't remember. I know it was changed from Vanilla -> Cataclysm.

 

[Robin64]

Did they change it again with Mists? Can't remember. I know it was changed from Vanilla -> Cataclysm.

All new bosses and story.

 

[JCizzle]

Fuck PDT.

 

[The Lamonster]

Fuck PDT.

The time zone?

 

[Berordn]

I don't think your first paragraph is true. Have you actually seen the old zones from a sky high view? There was a reason we couldn't fly in the old world until cata. Most of the geometry you're saying they're re-using didn't exist. Some walls didn't have other sides too them, no textures on the back. The trees at the top were basically empty and had no textures. Some buildings had no second half. There was a MASSIVE amount of work done in cata, but everybody says the expansion sucked because they didn't see enough done at level cap compared to what was done to the old world. Yeah, some zones didn't change that much or have new quests, but just redoing that entire world is a massive undertaking that deserves a tremendous amount of respect.

I'm aware of the state of the continents prior to the revamp, having unstuck myself past quite a bit of geometry in my time. I know that there were significant overhauls and that redoing the zones was a huge endeavor, but it's not like they didn't reuse anything either. Filling in the voids in the map, even if it required them creating entirely new maps of the continents, didn't prevent them from copying any of the old geometry. I know that it was a massive undertaking to do what they did for Cata, but it's not like a lot of the artwork wasn't already finished. A lot of the trouble geometry from Vanilla was reused for Wrath and BC where it had already been fixed with flight in mind, so that part of the work was already done for them.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

It would be interesting to actually go back to Northrend, post-Cataclysm. Already lots of stuff has happened, especially in Dragonblight, and Dalaran should not be neutral anymore.

It makes me wonder though, if they update Outland for another expansion, where will we go for 60-70? There's not enough room for 60-70 in a few zones and then 90-95 somewhere else in the same continent.

 

[Rokam]

It would be interesting to actually go back to Northrend, post-Cataclysm. Already lots of stuff has happened, especially in Dragonblight, and Dalaran should not be neutral anymore.

It makes me wonder though, if they update Outland for another expansion, where will we go for 60-70? There's not enough room for 60-70 in a few zones and then 90-95 somewhere else in the same continent.

We'll go to Outland to use the portals to the various Burning Legion worlds. But they'd probably revamp the 60-70 to bring it in line with the story.

 

[Angry Grimace]

We'll go to Outland to use the portals to the various Burning Legion worlds. But they'd probably revamp the 60-70 to bring it in line with the story.

I don't think there's any incentive to ever do any of this.

The time zone?

West Coast Best Coast.

Otherwise you have to be up at 3 am to play at launch :smug:

Given that it wouldn't be any "harder" to launch at 9 pm vs. 12, I have to assume the reason they do that is because the zones are less subject to insane login attempts if half the country just says "Fuck it" and doesn't stay up.

 

[Rokam]

I don't think there's any incentive to ever do any of this.

True, don't think they'll do the separate zone thing anymore after the hate for the Cata zones. Wonder where the next expansion will take place, as it's all but been confirmed to be a 2nd Burning Legion expansion.

 

[Angry Grimace]

True, don't think they'll do the separate zone thing anymore after the hate for the Cata zones. Wonder where the next expansion will take place, as it's all but been confirmed to be a 2nd Burning Legion expansion.

Argus. I doubt it will be a Burning Legion expansion unless its the last one they have in the pipeline. Sargeras is still the big bad of the series and I have my doubts they want to do anything but have him as the Raid Boss at Level 100.

 

[JCizzle]

I don't think there's any incentive to ever do any of this.



West Coast Best Coast.

Otherwise you have to be up at 3 am to play at launch :smug:

Given that it wouldn't be any "harder" to launch at 9 pm vs. 12, I have to assume the reason they do that is because the zones are less subject to insane login attempts if half the country just says "Fuck it" and doesn't stay up.

Gimme dat midnight EDT launch just once

You'll still have it even better since it will be only 9pm out there.

I suppose I can consider a 7pm bedtime and get up for 3am, but I think my fiancé would put her foot down.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Gimme dat midnight EDT launch just once

You'll still have it even better since it will be only 9pm out there.

I suppose I can consider a 7pm bedtime and get up for 3am, but I think my fiancé would put her foot down.

The likelihood of a smooth launch is considerably less if more people are online.

 

[The Lamonster]

I have to wait for my Amazon CE to be delivered around 6pm CST on launch day.

Thus I am off work on the 26th

 

[cubicle47b]

Gimme dat midnight EDT launch just once

You'll still have it even better since it will be only 9pm out there.

I suppose I can consider a 7pm bedtime and get up for 3am, but I think my fiancé would put her foot down.

Go to bed at 10, wake up at 6. You wake up rested and ready to play for the entire day, behind the initial wave of people by a few hours so you don't have to fight that hard to quest, and by the time people start coming home after work/school you should be done with Jade Forest.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I still think there's a remote possibility that the last boss will be the Pantheon. They do seem a bit like dicks; given they just let shit go crazy and send random starmen to come obliterate the planet if it turns out they did a crappy job of imprisoning the Old Gods (which they did since all of them are alive and doing asshole things)

 

[The Lamonster]

I think when trying to figure out what the next expansion will be, it's wise to look at overall themes of the previous expansions.

Vanilla: classic fantasy
BC: demons/sci-fi
WOTLK: Nordic
CATA: apocalypse
MOP: Asian

So what remains to be created?

 

[JCizzle]

Roman?