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[Alex]

I think it was more of a change for RBGs, I've never seen any issues with it at cap even in randoms though.

If you're below cap, there's zero point in doing anything but blowing through quests as fast as possible to get to cap. It's kind of sad, I'd like to see the philosphy behind the rush to cap change. I'd also like to see some design put into place to keep all content in the game useful and accessible somehow.

They wouldn't be forced into the kind of situations they currently are if they didn't, for some oddball reason, invalidate everything that isn't the latest and greatest. I think people are finally getting burnt out a bit on the whole cycle, so it'd be a nice change.

 

[Nolimit_SS]

They were selling arena spots for gold and a GM caught wind and gave them this heavy handed, mob-boss like shakedown

People had taken money out of the guild bank and the GM started to give people ultimatums to put it back within 15 mins or he was gonna start perma banning.

I doubt any of that was done right, and the GM may get in trouble but the dialogue and scenario it produced was hilarious "I NEED MORE TIME RINGULLIO! I'LL GET YOUR MONEY!"

Bah, so what if they were, I hate when GMs interfere too much like this.
Glad I quit, it annoys me when they do this crap -.-

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

You can level almost entirely through random dungeons now though. Obviously it helps to pick up the quests for the dungeon as well if there are not available. Of course this works better as a tank and less so as a healer compared to dps specs.

 

[strafer]

Okay, that went faster than I expected.

 

[unifin]

The game is easily in the worst shape its ever been. With the changes to the WSG graveyard every match is 25 minutes of being farmed with zero chance of escape. Who the fuck at Blizzard thought that having only one exit from a GY was a smart idea?

edit:
Just a typical level 14 in WSG

No crazy twink gear, just BoAs so they are twinked out automatically every level. Its frustrating coming into this as an old time player but as a complete newbie.. fuck dat.

Oh no, low-level PvP is unbalanced to fix the end game, how tragic.

 

[markot]

Oh no, low-level PvP is unbalanced to fix the end game, how tragic.

BOAs dont fix end game >.>

 

[yanhero]

Oh no, low-level PvP is unbalanced to fix the end game, how tragic.

He's not complaining about ability balancing, hes complaining about BoA's having way more stats than quest items at the same level, take a look at the hp/mana bars.

 

[dimb]

Oh no, low-level PvP is unbalanced to fix the end game, how tragic.

At least Blizzard balanced the game around high-end PvP...oh. Oh wait.

 

[Dresden]

Oh no, low-level PvP is unbalanced to fix the end game, how tragic.

>implying that high level pvp is balanced in any way

 

[wonderdung]

It was some morons bright idea on stopping flags being held at the gy >.<

You would have thought the stacking damage increase to flag carriers would have dealt with that.

Honor as a currency is what messed up WoW PVP. Now it's not even about PVP anymore, just about which BG gets the most honor the quickest.

 

[FLEABttn]

Honor as a currency is what messed up WoW PVP. Now it's not even about PVP anymore, just about which BG gets the most honor the quickest.

You say "now" like it hasn't been that way since 2005.

 

[davepoobond]

if you want to play wow pvp that is actually about pvp then you have to play arena or rated bgs. honor bgs are for farming and achievements and practice

 

[wonderdung]

You say "now" like it hasn't been that way since 2005.

Yeah it's been broken since the end of classic. Not that classic was setup well, but I miss it some times.

 

[GhostWriter24]

So has anyone found a way to solo some of the FL trash mobs?

 

[dave is ok]

So has anyone found a way to solo some of the FL trash mobs?

Bunch of people did, they got it hotfixed pretty quickly

 

[Fularu]

He's not complaining about ability balancing, hes complaining about BoA's having way more stats than quest items at the same level, take a look at the hp/mana bars.

The lock is also using buff food and is fort buffed.

Those can add a lot of HP to a char.

Also 12 vs 14, that's a 50-100 hp difference right there.

 

[mclem]

I agree, low lvl PVP is shit for new players. They should make heirlooms unavailable in BGs... if that's even possible.

While heirlooms are a factor, I think it's likely that low level PvP will be shit for new players despite that; the sheer gulf in experience and knowledge between someone coming in to the *entire game* fresh and one who's just made a new low-level character is a big factor.

 

[CAW]

I feel sorry for any new player getting into battle grounds, but there are ways to make it more enjoyable and to survive against the heirloom wearing 'twinks'?

• Stay with a group, a group that's goal is the BG objective, not to run off and fight in the center of the map.
• Stay in range of heals (if there are any).
• Know what class(es) you struggle with at your level and avoid them (unless grouped).
• Find a guild who enjoys playing the battlegrounds (joining with a friend(s) is MUCH more enjoyable and easier if you all work together/communicate).

If all else fails, roll a rogue.

 

[Bisnic]

While heirlooms are a factor, I think it's likely that low level PvP will be shit for new players despite that; the sheer gulf in experience and knowledge between someone coming in to the *entire game* fresh and one who's just made a new low-level character is a big factor.

Experience sure is a factor, but when the experienced player have 1000 more health than a new player at lvl 12-14 because of gear the new player CAN'T even get, the new player has 0 chances of even being a threat to the guy. If the damage and health were at least somewhat "fair", it could be fun for newcomers.

 

[Garryk]

Is leveling via PVP still viable? I want to make a priest, but I don't want to level up as a dps spec. I don't really want to do the RDF either because I have limited playtime and I don't want to wait and then get a crappy group. I might get crappy groups in BGs but they are guaranteed to last less than an hour.

 

[CAW]

Definitely viable. I did it not to long ago with a rogue and it was great and quick! Especially when Call to Arms is Arathi Basin or Alterc Valley.

 

[Fularu]

Experience sure is a factor, but when the experienced player have 1000 more health than a new player at lvl 12-14 because of gear the new player CAN'T even get, the new player has 0 chances of even being a threat to the guy. If the damage and health were at least somewhat "fair", it could be fun for newcomers.

That screenshot is missleading. Warlock has stamina buffs the lvl 12 doesn't have.

The difference is more along the lines of 3-400 HP.

Also unless that changed, BoA gear only upgrades every 10 levels, the difference between someone in dungeon blues and boa gear at 19 should be next no nill.

 

[Bisnic]

That screenshot is missleading. Warlock has stamina buffs the lvl 12 doesn't have.

The difference is more along the lines of 3-400 HP.

Also unless that changed, BoA gear only upgrades every 10 levels, the difference between someone in dungeon blues and boa gear at 19 should be next no nill.

Huh no, BoA gear change every lvl. Always been that way. It's also almost always better than dungeon blues except in rare cases. The other difference being that people dont bother enchanting dungeons blues or quest greens at low lvl compared to heirlooms.

And stamina buffs at lvl 14 gives what? 60-80hp? It's nothing huge.

 

[markot]

That screenshot is missleading. Warlock has stamina buffs the lvl 12 doesn't have.

The difference is more along the lines of 3-400 HP.

Also unless that changed, BoA gear only upgrades every 10 levels, the difference between someone in dungeon blues and boa gear at 19 should be next no nill.

The lvl 12 is the warlock, the tauren is a priest, tauren cant be warlocks.

And the BOA gear upgrades each level, and always has >.<

 

[Fularu]

It shouldn't upgrade every level. It didn't on my paladin or my rogue, they upgraded every 10 level. Again, I paid no attention to it till the late 40ies.

And yes, I used "warlock" instead of priest, sue me, he still has buffs the other doesn't have, especially the food/stam buffs.

Edit : A quick search revealed this

Heirlooms automatically take on the attributes of a blue quality item of the level of its wearer. Which means I was wrong


In short, do instances and the "advantage" disapears, which is all that matters at the 10-19 bracket (if you really plan on doing PVP at such a low level).

 

[markot]

Instances dont diminish the advantage at all.

 

[Fularu]

Blues nullify it

 

[markot]

For one level, for one slot.

You act as though each dungeon has a full set for each class and spec ready and waiting.

 

[water_wendi]

It shouldn't upgrade every level. It didn't on my paladin or my rogue, they upgraded every 10 level. Again, I paid no attention to it till the late 40ies.

And yes, I used "warlock" instead of priest, sue me, he still has buffs the other doesn't have, especially the food/stam buffs.

Edit : A quick search revealed this

Heirlooms automatically take on the attributes of a blue quality item of the level of its wearer. Which means I was wrong


In short, do instances and the "advantage" disapears, which is all that matters at the 10-19 bracket (if you really plan on doing PVP at such a low level).

Heirlooms basically remove the need to upgrade that slot until 80. They are auto twinked out every level. There is no way to compete against that. "Do instances?" Lol.. the advantages dont disappear ever (well there is a period where the epic 60 PvP daggers have much higher top end damage but thats at 60).. the gap only closes at higher level but a non-BoA person will always be inferior.

My entire point is that Cataclysm is supposed to be accommodating for new players but new players are at a huge disadvantage in PvP from BoAs. i remember the good old days of twinking when there would be 1-2 super characters per match. With BoAs though, its the opposite with 1-2 being normal slobs and the rest being super-powered beasts.

 

[half a moon]

Guess I'm gonna try a Warrior and Arms early this season. I suck at pvp but I want to learn. Hard to do when BG's are gank fests.

Anyways, how often does 1h and shield switches get play? Wondering if I should do landslide on it.

 

[Fularu]

My entire point is that Cataclysm is supposed to be accommodating for new players but new players are at a huge disadvantage in PvP from BoAs. i remember the good old days of twinking when there would be 1-2 super characters per match. With BoAs though, its the opposite with 1-2 being normal slobs and the rest being super-powered beasts.

You're complaining about unbalanced PVP at the 10-19 bracket? Your main example beeing a lvl 12 vs lvl 14 char?

You can fully twink a lvl 19 character for PVP while beeing a beginer. Do instances till 19, get the various lvl 19 blues and build your set, you'll compete with BoA players just fine.

The point of VoA gear was to speed up the leveling process for older players, non balanced pvp before the max level of any given bracket is expected.

I WILL give you the trinket issue though.

 

[water_wendi]

You're complaining about unbalanced PVP at the 10-19 bracket? Your main example beeing a lvl 12 vs lvl 14 char?

i was making a comparison to that bracket.. the 10-14 bracket. i didnt gain 700 hp by the time i hit 14. At 20 im at about 400hp.

You can fully twink a lvl 19 character for PVP while beeing a beginer. Do instances till 19, get the various lvl 19 blues and build your set, you'll compete with BoA players just fine.

This is true. But a new player would have to a) know they can turn off XP, and b) do a ton of study to figure out what items to use. The problem is that even then the BoA items are still better and there are two huge problems. The first is that BoA decked out alts are much more common than twinks.. 90% of everyone in the 10-14 and 15-19 brackets have been BoA "twinks." Secondly, there is no effort put forth in making a BoA twink. You buy your items, send it to the leveling alt, and then faceroll anyone that doesnt have an 85.

The point of VoA gear was to speed up the leveling process for older players, non balanced pvp before the max level of any given bracket is expected.

i understand what the intent was but BoAs have destroyed PvP for players without high level alts. There is no way to compete. The health pools are too large to make a dent in unless you have a melee character with BoA weapons. As a person thats been with Wow a long time i understand the processes behind the scenes that makes these characters happen. A newcomer to Wow will not and will see this as hugely unfair and rightfully so. Someone like you would likely say that there is no unfair advantage because all a new player has to do is buy the game and all the expansions, get to 85, farm Argent Dailies for a couple months, and get into a level 20 guild. They do that and then they can compete.

I WILL give you the trinket issue though.

Did i even bring up trinkets? They are OP as all fuck. 2x the one that restore mana/health are insane at those levels.


edit:

Honor as a currency is what messed up WoW PVP. Now it's not even about PVP anymore, just about which BG gets the most honor the quickest.

Imo, its not Honor points thats messed up WoW PvP. Its that doing PvP rewards items at all. If Blizzard branched out and took over car racing they would have it that the winners of the race could make their cars at a better spec than the losers. There is no competition that i know of that gives good players a handicap because they are better than the competition. Yet this is Blizzards philosophy. You do well in Arena/Rated BGs you get better gear faster than those that cant. When you couple this with FotM classes/builds you get the state the game is in.

 

[idlewild_]

i was making a comparison to that bracket.. the 10-14 bracket. i didnt gain 700 hp by the time i hit 14. At 20 im at about 400hp.

he has the midsummer buff (+30 stam at ALL levels), stam buff, food buff and 2 levels on you. that's probably around 700hp without considering heirlooms.

 

[Bisnic]

Fularu, i'm guessing you havent played WoW in a while, or probably only your high lvl main, because BG low brackets are now 10-14, 15-19, 20-24 and so on. it's not lvl 12s vs lvl 19s anymore.

 

[water_wendi]

he has the midsummer buff (+30 stam at ALL levels), stam buff, food buff and 2 levels on you. that's probably around 700hp without considering heirlooms.

i also have stam buff. He has an extra 300 from the Summer buff and another 150 from Black Rum (which is trivial to get at high level.. not so much at low level). Remove those buff and hes still at 1k. Remove my stam buff and im at like 300.

And i just found out the trial is officially worthless. i figured that it would be useful for playing some AB or WSG free but since hitting 20 the games are very few and far in between now. It seems that just like those at an expansions max level are moved into level-locked BGs, so are capped trial accounts.

 

[Fularu]

Fularu, i'm guessing you havent played WoW in a while, or probably only your high lvl main, because BG low brackets are now 10-14, 15-19, 20-24 and so on. it's not lvl 12s vs lvl 19s anymore.

Correction, I haven't PVPed at low level in a very long while.

I'm not saying it doesn't suck ( I believe it does), I'm just saying that I highly doubt a new player's focus is going to be the 10-14 PVP bracket when you get to 20 in 3 hours.

Water : I know, I brought up the trinket issue because it really is op at low levels.

 

[water_wendi]

The only way to make the new F2P trial account thingie to be useful at all is to stop xp at 19 so there is a larger pool of level halted players to get into matches with. The problem is actually stopping the xp gain. Its possible that trial accounts cant do that function (i cant find any info on it) but even then there is the monetary issue. Can a fresh account get to required 10g by level 19 without being able to trade or selling on the Auction House?

ive been trying to formulate a plan and i think the greatest money to xp ratio is with Mining. A stack of Copper Ore vendors for 1s but Copper Bars sell for 2s. If i start at level 5 and get xp solely from Mining thats probably the best bet.

 

[Fularu]

Yes, keep killing low level mobs that are greyed to you, sell the greens - whites and grays.

It will take forever but you can do it.

 

[water_wendi]

Yes, keep killing low level mobs that are greyed to you, sell the greens - whites and grays.

It will take forever but you can do it.

Such a simple idea.. i was overthinking it. Thats likely the best way. If i get to 10g and i cant turn off xp im going to rage so fucking hard lol

edit: Tailoring and vendoring Linen Bolts is probably the fastest way. 2x Linen Cloth makes a 40c item to sell. And theres no xp from making bolts.

 

[Alucrid]

The only way to make the new F2P trial account thingie to be useful at all is to stop xp at 19 so there is a larger pool of level halted players to get into matches with. The problem is actually stopping the xp gain. Its possible that trial accounts cant do that function (i cant find any info on it) but even then there is the monetary issue. Can a fresh account get to required 10g by level 19 without being able to trade or selling on the Auction House?

ive been trying to formulate a plan and i think the greatest money to xp ratio is with Mining. A stack of Copper Ore vendors for 1s but Copper Bars sell for 2s. If i start at level 5 and get xp solely from Mining thats probably the best bet.

You can beg. I make more than 10g from daily quests lol.

 

[zugzug]

if you want to play wow pvp that is actually about pvp then you have to play arena or rated bgs. honor bgs are for farming and achievements and practice

Rated Battlegrounds, I dare say worse implementation than Tol Barad. When Blizzard revealed Rated BGs they were all excited and acting like step back we've hit a homerun step back we are bringing the best thing since sliced bread.

OH wait you need to queue with many other people instead of allowing yourself to queue as an individual and build up on your own personal BG rating such that when you queue up you get matched to others your skill level or gear level.

So that people with low resilence will get matched against themselves and people with high resilence will get matched against each other. So that in 3 to 5 months time it would been sorted out right well and not the stupidest thing BGs still are.

It sure seems to me that Rated BGs are than that lower than 1% who have entered Naxx at level 60.

I really really want to be in a discussion room with these Blizzard Developers and just really find out if this is how they wanted Rated BGs instead of my idea.

Cataclysm did not change BGs at all its the same stupid waste of fucking time it has been. Its the same pug facing Premades, Its the same tanking warrior with two pocket healers just holding the flag all day and not being able to kill him.

 

[strafer]

So, this new blue post.

Anyone wanna translate? ;P

If you've been using the raw XML exposed by the wowarmory.com website, you'll soon need to transition to the new RESTful API. Here are some things that you should take into consideration.

XMl is out, JSON is in! - The new web API resources provide JSON, as opposed to XML. This has several implications from object model design to embedded

Characters and guilds as resources - The urls for character and guild profiles is different, allowing you to specifically request which datasets you want.

Actual documentation - With the API comes documentation on what data is available and how to use it. Be sure to read up on what is available and what other developers are doing with it by frequenting the forums.

SSL - If you make authenticated requests to the API, you can do so using SSL.

 

[Alex]

Yikes, I feel sorry for anyone who was grinding out a set of PvP gear last week. What a royally fucked up stunt to pull to a system that's been in place since BC. This team is completely clueless.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

WTF is this 371 season 10 Vicious Glad honor gear.

I just grinned out 365 Vicious for every slot.

 

[Alex]

WTF is this 371 season 10 Vicious Glad honor gear.

I just grinned out 365 Vicious for every slot.

Hey buddy, you wanted content, YOU GOT IT!

Seriously though, what an amazing fuck up. People waste tons and tons of time last week just to be met with a general tone of "Lol we forgot to mention this? OOPS XD" from a blue post.

 

[Ferrio]

So, this new blue post.

Anyone wanna translate? ;P

Programmer/developers taking advantage of the current wowarmory are going to have to use JSON (javascript object notation) and a new API instead of XML (Extensible Markup Language) for querying for data on the wowarmory.

So basically means rewrite code time. Of course JSON >>>>> XML so, all the better.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Hey buddy, you wanted content, YOU GOT IT!

Seriously though, what an amazing fuck up. People waste tons and tons of time last week just to be met with a general tone of "Lol we forgot to mention this? OOPS XD" from a blue post.

Not only that, I spend A LOT of gold on gems and enchants because of the overpiced scalp.

I have 80g cause this isn't my main server.

 

[Alex]

Smart thing to do would be to bump up the Season 9 stuff to ilvl 371 out of good will but fat chance of that happening. Why is S10 honor gear being put above S9 conquest gear in ilvl anyway? That seems odd.

Something this big being left out of any notes or updates after 3-4 years of the same system when every last minute detail gets jotted down doesn't seem unintentional to me.

Maybe it can be a premium service in 4.3, UPGRADE YOUR CONQUEST GEAR TO HONOR GEAR FOR $9.99.

 

[Alucrid]

Yikes, I feel sorry for anyone who was grinding out a set of PvP gear last week. What a royally fucked up stunt to pull to a system that's been in place since BC. This team is completely clueless.

I thought it was obvious that new gear was coming? I mean, even I knew well enough not to waste my time until S10 started. That was the whole reason why all the Conquest/Valor went down to Honor/Justice.

Oh, someone help me out here. Next alt will either be a Human Warrior or Drenai Priest (probably shadow), which would you recommend and which would be most different from the Hunter/DK/Druid I already have?

Smart thing to do would be to bump up the Season 9 stuff to ilvl 371 out of good will but fat chance of that happening. Why is S10 honor gear being put above S9 conquest gear in ilvl anyway? That seems odd.

Something this big being left out of any notes or updates after 3-4 years of the same system when every last minute detail gets jotted down doesn't seem unintentional to me.

Maybe it can be a premium service in 4.3, UPGRADE YOUR CONQUEST GEAR TO HONOR GEAR FOR $9.99.

They'll make thousands. Then again it'd be real easy to get them since you're just farming honor as opposed to conquest, or perhaps both at the same time to kill 2 birds with one stone.

 

[Alex]

I thought it was obvious that new gear was coming? I mean, even I knew well enough not to waste my time until S10 started.

Oh, someone help me out here. Next alt will either be a Human Warrior or Drenai Priest (probably shadow), which would you recommend and which would be most different from the Hunter/DK/Druid I already have?

They've used the same exact system for this since BC. That same system was in place last week, and without warning, suddenly removed and revamped as of today's maintenance.

It's like if they suddenly threw more powerful T11.5 on the JP vendor instead of the old VP fare.

I don't know how on Earth it could have been obvious to anyone.

Then again it'd be real easy to get them since you're just farming honor as opposed to conquest,

That's no excuse, it still takes tons of time to farm that shit (not to mention all of the gold to gem, enchant and reforge it). Swapping the conquest gear to honor for one week, like all other old patches, then removing it entirely and shitting out a brand new, never before done type of set after everyone spent their time farming is some serious nonsense.