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[FLEABttn]

what WoW really needs to be a better game at this point is a change to the questing game overall that is less hand-holding and does require group or smart play to progress, or (probably better) a type of heroic/challenge questing where dungeon/raid skills are taught/needed to be used.

EQ1 has plenty of idiots and it required group play for most of the game for most of the classes. Requiring group play just makes a different kind of idiot, not necessarily a better player. I'd be all for some "heroic/challenge questing where dungeon/raid skills are taught/needed to be used" though.

 

[Saren is Bad]

I mean, I understand that I should be better and understand it more, it's just a huge time commitment that I can't make. I enjoy the game, and wish I got into it sooner. My only point was, that there are people who are new to the game who refuse to take any advice or criticism. those people suck. But those of us who want to get better, realize we need to get better if people want to play with us, and are willing to take criticism and advice and try and improve...well, i feel like thats something entirely different.

oh yay the 'i don't have enough time' excuse. it isn't hard to learn your class or the bosses. all you have to do is google, for example, 'paladin guide 4.2' and there, elitist jerks or WoW forum post right there. want to know a boss? well, look in the journal now, but before hand just youtube a tankspot or something. that takes 10 minutes tops, so don't 'ah but man i dont have time to actually learn how to play a game that i'm paying 15$ a month for!'

you say you don't have time, but a lot of players are the same way, and know how to play, only to get stuck in a heroic with some suckass players and waste their time a way wiping on some 10 month old content

 

[Alex]

I just feel there's a lot more to complain about. Specifically in the game design, rather than the communication needed for min/max. That's like that in ALL RPGs, you need a guide to get the absolute most out of it. It just wouldn't be as fierce in WoW if the leveling game, the UI and the ability design wasn't so wonky lately.

 

[Pollux]

oh yay the 'i don't have enough time' excuse. it isn't hard to learn your class or the bosses. all you have to do is google, for example, 'paladin guide 4.2' and there, elitist jerks or WoW forum post right there. want to know a boss? well, look in the journal now, but before hand just youtube a tankspot or something. that takes 10 minutes tops, so don't 'ah but man i dont have time to actually learn how to play a game that i'm paying 15$ a month for!'

you say you don't have time, but a lot of players are the same way, and know how to play, only to get stuck in a heroic with some suckass players and waste their time a way wiping on some 10 month old content

you do realize that even if i'm only playing about 15 hours over the course of a month that is still cheaper then buying a 60 dollar game. lets look at this....for 60$ i'll play maybe 45 hours total. by the time I hit 60$ on WOW i've been playing for 4 months, and well over 50-60 hours. so in the long run WOW is a better value for the amount of time you spend playing it.

and yea, I don't have time, i'm sorry I can't just sit at my computer for hours a day and play a game. some of us have other things to do with our time, like jobs and school.

 

[Saren is Bad]

you do realize that even if i'm only playing about 15 hours over the course of a month that is still cheaper then buying a 60 dollar game. lets look at this....for 60$ i'll play maybe 45 hours total. by the time I hit 60$ on WOW i've been playing for 4 months, and well over 50-60 hours. so in the long run WOW is a better value for the amount of time you spend playing it.

and yea, I don't have time, i'm sorry I can't just sit at my computer for hours a day and play a game. some of us have other things to do with our time, like jobs and school.

lol, i just love how people who can't play the game assume that people who can have all the time in the world. i'll give you a hint, we don't. ;-)

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I stopped playing WoW 3 months or so back, till then raided TBC, WoTLK (till LK), quite 1 month into Cata but only got around to actually cancelling my account 3 months back.

One of the problems that I ended up having was that the design philosophy seemed very inconsistent at times. With WoTLK it was about greater accessibility (where I personally felt Ulduar and Citadel were awesome raids. Some nice/easy bosses early on with different heroic modes and got tougher as you went along. This is keeping in mind a casual guild).

With Cata, greater accessibility somewhat took a nosedive, Heroic dungeons became a crapshoot, Raids were all right but then when they had to delay Firelands because not enough people had cleared the current raid content...lol

The Rogue became even more boring to play and I went from feeling like I contributed something in raids to thinking another class could come here, probably match my DPS and provide good utility.

I never played a healer but none of my healer guildies were too happy with Cata.

Maybe things have improved now (hopefully).

 

[Pollux]

lol, i just love how people who can't play the game assume that people who can have all the time in the world. i'll give you a hint, we don't. ;-)

Look, I don't want to get in a pissing match here. I would rather be able to actually discuss the game, and ask for advice in this thread, including incredibly stupid questions, and get advice, so i don't fuck up in dungeons.

So, I'll agree that I should look into things more, if you'll concede that as long as someone is willing to ask for advice in order to get better and is allowed to make mistakes as long as they learn from them and don't let them happen again, its OK.

 

[Alucrid]

Look, I don't want to get in a pissing match here. I would rather be able to actually discuss the game, and ask for advice in this thread, including incredibly stupid questions, and get advice, so i don't fuck up in dungeons.

So, I'll agree that I should look into things more, if you'll concede that as long as someone is willing to ask for advice in order to get better and is allowed to make mistakes as long as they learn from them and don't let them happen again, its OK.

Ask away!

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Ask away!

We do tend to answer things (in varying levels of detail.) Sometimes I might spend 20 minutes writing a post up if there is a lot to talk about and I'm an expert on the subject. Other times I may just point people to a wowhead link.

But any legitimate question can be asked here without being ridiculed and you'll probably get an answer (or even a few if it's more subjective!)

 

[Xtyle]

I mean, I understand that I should be better and understand it more, it's just a huge time commitment that I can't make. I enjoy the game, and wish I got into it sooner. My only point was, that there are people who are new to the game who refuse to take any advice or criticism. those people suck. But those of us who want to get better, realize we need to get better if people want to play with us, and are willing to take criticism and advice and try and improve...well, i feel like thats something entirely different.

I can understand those concerns. I think you would rarely get good advices on how to play your class better etc, in random dungeons. It used to be so much better grouping with server people rather than ppl from random servers. I would suggest joining a guild.

 

[Freyjadour]

you do realize that even if i'm only playing about 15 hours over the course of a month that is still cheaper then buying a 60 dollar game. lets look at this....for 60$ i'll play maybe 45 hours total. by the time I hit 60$ on WOW i've been playing for 4 months, and well over 50-60 hours. so in the long run WOW is a better value for the amount of time you spend playing it.

and yea, I don't have time, i'm sorry I can't just sit at my computer for hours a day and play a game. some of us have other things to do with our time, like jobs and school.

Take one of those hours and spend it on EJ, you'll enjoy the game more and it becomes obnoxiously easy to stay up to date on rotations and gearing.

 

[Alex]

Saren, regardless of opinion, you really shouldn't harp on the guy like that considering he's pretty calmly stating his bit. It'd be rad if we could have a decent atmosphere in here rather than a begrudging one like MMO-Champion or the official forums.

 

[ampere]

I just started raiding again with my guild, we did 6/7 pretty easily last night (they've been raiding Firelands since it came out, 25 players) and worked on Rag tonight.

The Ragnaros encounter is so amazing. It's really well designed, and even though we wiped for 3 hours I was having a lot of fun. We got him to the near the 40% transition a few times, but the group up and AoE parts with the gobbles of little adds were a bit difficult for us.

I learn fights pretty quickly when I participate, so I was able to stop dying to dumb stuff after a few attempts. I really need to tune up my AoE dps for the little adds. I throw down earthquake and flame shock adds as they run to us and fire nova. It was a lot easier when earthquake was channeled and OP. Oh well.

I'm an ele shaman, so I get to use thunderstorm in this fight and get praised for it .

 

[Xtyle]

and yea, I don't have time, i'm sorry I can't just sit at my computer for hours a day and play a game. some of us have other things to do with our time, like jobs and school.

To be quite honest with you, then I don't know where the complain is from. If you can't perform at a certain level in a group setting on current content (5 man, 10 man, 25 man). You would likely get kicked. People may give you advices but the learning curve is pretty long (and on your own). When I started tanking in 2008, I couldn't even understand some boss mechanics and I gave up for a little while. I tried it again after finding out more info on some bosses and rotations, etc.

I think what helps though is grouping with people you are familiar with, like friends, or someone who's done dungeon with. Those are the kind of people that can help you play better. No amount of UI improvement or anything (unless they overhaul leveling methods) is going to help you play your role and the game better

and think of it this way, we all have jobs, school, family etc. If we all have so little time to play, I want to get stuff done. Why would I want to group with RANDOM people who can't play well?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I keep running into 10-15 man premades in random battlegrounds.

Are they queuing at the same time and hoping for the best, are they using av enabler, something else?

 

[TheYanger]

Wow what a shitty atmosphere the last few pages. NOBODY likes getting stuck with scrubs or newbies in 5 mans, but there's a monstrous gap between someone willing to admit their faults and ask for help and the typical "STFU UR DUMB" responses. The former is definitely not deserving of a votekick unless they're literally unable to complete the dungeon (This is almost never the case unless your entire group is ass. I don't think I've ever failed more than once on a boss in a dungeon finder group).

That said, you can't expect a group to give you the lowdown on how to play the game WHILE in a dungeon. Put in some research, in game and out, without the dungeon finder. Use a training dummy, ask people of your class (But don't badger them, they might be busy), etc.
The game does not prepare you to be a good player on its own anymore, it simply doesn't. Levelling and early dungeoneering are simply TOO casual and easy. Don't let cynics fool you: Wow is NOT an easy game. Wow is a game with two distinct levels of difficulty: VERY easy, and VERY challenging. The two do not meet each other lightly.

 

[Bisnic]

With the ingame journal that Blizzard added in 4.2, it shouldn't be difficult or long to learn the dangerous spells of every high lvl bosses before you join a pug. There is of course the obvious "Don't stand on everything you see on the ground except on rare occasions that its actually a buff". If you die because you stand on poison or fire that kills you in less than 3 secs, no guides will help with that.

A correct spell rotation and secondary stats aren't as simple to find ingame but a quick search on EJ or official class forums should be just enough for that. Or people could just ask here.

 

[devildog820]

To be quite honest with you, then I don't know where the complain is from. If you can't perform at a certain level in a group setting on current content (5 man, 10 man, 25 man). You would likely get kicked. People may give you advices but the learning curve is pretty long (and on your own). When I started tanking in 2008, I couldn't even understand some boss mechanics and I gave up for a little while. I tried it again after finding out more info on some bosses and rotations, etc.

I think what helps though is grouping with people you are familiar with, like friends, or someone who's done dungeon with. Those are the kind of people that can help you play better. No amount of UI improvement or anything (unless they overhaul leveling methods) is going to help you play your role and the game better

I think that complaint was more in response to Saren.

I was pretty terrible for a long time, even reading the forums. It's a lot to grasp all at once for someone who has never played this type of game. They are also usually written with terminology that, even when looked up, doesn't make sense right away to people who are new. For example, someone said "fire that on cooldown" (instead of the more appropriate, fire that when it cools down) and I took it to mean try to use that ability while it was cooling down. Which I knew was impossible. That was a microcosm of what new players go through. Makes perfect sense now, though.

I joined a guild and a guildie was kind enough to spend 30 minutes with me at a target dummy explaining the mechanics of playing and answering my questions about rotations and positioning. No where in any guide I read did it say I should attack from behind (non-tank). After her explaining things, my DPS went from sub 4k to well over 13k with the same gear reforged and properly gemmed. After that, all of the guides made perfect sense.

 

[Alucrid]

Yep. I've had random hunters PM me while I'm sitting in SW waiting for the DF to pop and I have no problem helping them out. I do suggest that you look at the WoW forums, because they do have pretty decent guides to get you started in the right direction in terms or gear, gems, enchants, stat priorities, etc.

Unless you're BM or SV. I have no fucking clue what they're supposed to do.

 

[ampere]

If you aren't sure how to gear/spec/glyph your character, it's always helpful to read over the forums at Elitist Jerks.
Stick to this forum for asking little questions though, they don't really care for people asking questions that can be answered by reading a guide.

Once you get more familiar with how things work, you can start to make more choices for yourself. It's always a good idea to read about the 'best' way to do things from a mathematical analysis perspective.

Staying out of fire/etc is something you just pick up over time. It helps you play other games too once your reactions improve.

 

[Saren is Bad]

yeah i came off as a huge dick i'm sure but the majority of sucky players in random dungeons are the "LOL NO" type of person when you try to point something out. i wish there was no timer on the votekick, but thats just the horrible person WoW has made me

 

[Pollux]

yeah i came off as a huge dick i'm sure but the majority of sucky players in random dungeons are the "LOL NO" type of person when you try to point something out. i wish there was no timer on the votekick, but thats just the horrible person WoW has made me

I can understand where you're coming from, so I don't really hold anything you said against you. My only thing, before we got off subject for the last couple pages, was there was a difference between someone who sucks and doesn't give a shit and ruins it for everyone, and someone who isn't that great, can finnish a dungeon, and then asks for advice on how to get better.

I'm in the latter, I can pull my own weight, at least I think I can, I've never been kicked, but I was just saying there was a difference between the two different types of new players.

 

[Bisnic]

Anyone had a "Leeroy" moment in pugs before? I saw my first one yesterday in ZA. Some wanted a bear run, but something happened when they tried to skip a group in the famous part with the scouts, wipe, failed it, no one spoke of it after and the run was doing fine after that.

Then, when we reached the room in the middle with the group of trolls, the 2 giants and the boss + his 2 adds. The tank yellled LEEEEERROOOY JENKINS, charged into the room, pulled everything and left the group with his hunter friend. Wiped of course.

I laughed, but still...
Asshole.

 

[djm]

People still do that? I definitely remember hearthing out of a few copycats during UBRS runs in classic.

 

[Bisnic]

People still do that? I definitely remember hearthing out of a few copycats during UBRS runs in classic.

Like i said, first time i actually saw this in a pug. I remember getting some asshole blood elf paladin in WOTLK(without the famous Jenkins yell part) that tried to pulled 2 groups and leave, but those heroics were fucking easy, so even when that paladin tried it, there was no wipes and i could see it happen since he was being a jerk the whole run.

Can't say the same with the group i had yesterday, they were nice guys and they spitted on an easy 140 VP just to annoy 3 random players. I don't get it.

 

[Alucrid]

When people say "bear run guyz lololol" before the instance starts it's a guaranteed failure. Never have I ever gotten the bear to drop when someone said bear run, it's always just going through the normal dungeon with five kick-ass players and getting there on skill (with some help from gear) and none of those gimmicky skip shit antics.

 

[Bisnic]

When people say "bear run guyz lololol" before the instance starts it's a guaranteed failure. Never have I ever gotten the bear to drop when someone said bear run, it's always just going through the normal dungeon with five kick-ass players and getting there on skill (with some help from gear) and none of those gimmicky skip shit antics.

I know that, i got the bear both on my mage and paladin because i was lucky enough to get a tank who was fast, a healer who doesnt go oom and 3 DPS doing close to 20k DPS. All that with killing everything on sight like a normal run.

Idiots who try to skip groups never worked great because you know someone gonna pull something by accident.

That particular pug even TRIED to skip the first group after Voljin open gate at the beginning. Ugh.

 

[Johnlenham]

I can understand where you're coming from, so I don't really hold anything you said against you. My only thing, before we got off subject for the last couple pages, was there was a difference between someone who sucks and doesn't give a shit and ruins it for everyone, and someone who isn't that great, can finnish a dungeon, and then asks for advice on how to get better.

I'm in the latter, I can pull my own weight, at least I think I can, I've never been kicked, but I was just saying there was a difference between the two different types of new players.

No time to read up about classes or dungeons but plenty of time to respond about not having enough time to read up about specs/dungeons etc

I laughed but

 

[C.Dark.DN]

If you can't successfully walk past trash this far into wow's life, you're a retard and don't deserve the mount.

You're taught this skill while leveling.

How much trash is skipped in raids? A lot.

 

[Bisnic]

If you can't successfully walk past trash this far into wow's life, you're a retard and don't deserve the mount.

You're taught this skill while leveling.

How much trash is skipped in raids? A lot.

This is a pug we're talking about. Retards are everywhere in this case. Asking to skip a group in a pug is asking for a lot for some. Hugging walls? Never heard of it. Nope!

 

[C.Dark.DN]

This is a pug we're talking about. Retards are everywhere in this case. Asking to skip a group in a pug is asking for a lot for some. Hugging walls? Never heard of it. Nope!

"five kick-ass players and getting there on skill and none of those gimmicky skip shit antics."
All five being skilled enough to do it legit but not skilled enough to hug a wall is contradictory to me.

Now, it's possible to carry DPS on a mount run, who could screw things up. On one run last month we were 30 seconds too late because a DPS disconnected before and during the whole Halazzi fight.

Either way, wall hugging IS a measure of skill, my only point.

 

[Bisnic]

When we have 5 kickass players, skipping a group in a 5 man makes us look like weaklings. You don't want that.

 

[zugzug]

I never played a healer but none of my healer guildies were too happy with Cata.

But did you ask your healer friends why they did not like it. Some people would postulate that healing was still doable and fine, it just became very difficult and hard to do. That DPS had to move and avoid taking damage so the healer could focus on keeping the tank alive.

Perhaps this goes back to the responability role that each class had.

Perhaps this level of gameplay is what is needed on a specifically designed server desginated as harder level of difficulty that a certain smaller percent of the population would greatly desire to play with, while others prefer it less engaging.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

When we have 5 kickass players, skipping a group in a 5 man makes us look like weaklings. You don't want that.

I still disagree. How many people kill all the trash in firelands?

 

[Bisnic]

I still disagree. How many people kill all the trash in firelands?

That's why i specifically mention 5 man. Raids i understand, 5 mans? Those are easy and take a minute to kill.

 

[Alucrid]

"five kick-ass players and getting there on skill and none of those gimmicky skip shit antics."
All five being skilled enough to do it legit but not skilled enough to hug a wall is contradictory to me.

Now, it's possible to carry DPS on a mount run, who could screw things up. On one run last month we were 30 seconds too late because a DPS disconnected before and during the whole Halazzi fight.

Either way, wall hugging IS a measure of skill, my only point.

I'm not talking about hugging walls, or ccing the first bear and skipping that, but mounting up at the start and trying to run through that or trying to run through the tiger packs to get to the lynx boss and have someone fd/invis/shadowmeld/whatever and mass rez. I said gimmicky skip shit antics, nothing about moving past mobs you don't have to kill.

Also, while fishing for Highland Guppies I just ended up finding a Sea Turtle. Still don't have enough fucking guppies though.

 

[LowParry]

I still disagree. How many people kill all the trash in firelands?

Some guilds still do for the patterns and other drops that come from them.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I'm not talking about hugging walls, or ccing the first bear and skipping that, but mounting up at the start and trying to run through that or trying to run through the tiger packs to get to the lynx boss and have someone fd/invis/shadowmeld/whatever and mass rez. I said gimmicky skip shit antics, nothing about moving past mobs you don't have to kill.

Also, while fishing for Highland Guppies I just ended up finding a Sea Turtle. Still don't have enough fucking guppies though.

Ok,I've only had people CC the first bear and hug the wall on a pack by the scouts.

I'd do the latter on a guild run if we were confident it'd work every time.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Either way, wall hugging IS a measure of skill, my only point.

You just reminded me how the enhance shammy would always die on Freya's trash (before they got the health pool buff.) Fun times.

 

[Alex]

Hahaha, leveling from 1-5 is apparently too hard, they're going to nerf it. It doesn't even matter, but it makes me laugh. That's the future WoW player right there. Grandma can't set the clock but she has an 85 Paladin.

If they make leveling at all easier, monsters will heal you when they hit you and if you manage to die it'll grant a quests worth of EXP.

(really, I know that it's just for their roping in of non-gamers, but it's still funny and just pours a little extra salt on the gaping wound that is leveling)

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

I thought this tidbit on MMO-Champ was the most interesting (though the leveling from 1-5 bit is kind of funny):

The shared 10 and 25 man lockout has had both positive and negative effects, it solved the need to do both every week but removed some extra content that could be done every week. Some changes will be made in the future to make everyone happier with the solution.

I'm curious to see what happens there. I don't mind the current system too much and the old system had its share of problems, but it did have benefits. Extra "content" as mentioned in the quote, but even better was the ability to use 10-mans as test labs for encounters before bringing your raid together for a 25 after most people know what's up. Also worth mentioning was the extra stream of supplemental gear that wouldn't cost you DKP if you were having bad luck with drops in the 25. And just more variety in gear - sometimes having a BiS come from a heroic 10-man encounter.

 

[Alex]

In the end it's better for the shared lock out to come off, you can't really make any argument for it other than gear throttling and carrots dominate this game far too much as is. I think it just says that they desperately need more and new types of content though when people are trying to raid the same shit several times a week

Personally, I don't see the appeal.

I can understand the whole alt thing, and going the casual raids for a lark, I did do that myself a bit but there are people in our guild who would, post-raid, log off and log onto an alt to do more progression raiding with another guild, as well as off-days, etc. Blows me away how people can do that.

Assholes like that are also why our RBG team fell apart!

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Well it might not necessarily be as serious, but I enjoyed being able to raid 25s maybe 3 or 4 weeknights and start a 10 after that if it wasn't too late or do 10s on the weekend. Raiding is my favorite part of the game, so if I'm really into it, I'm into it.

I do wish there were more somewhat serious (at least focused) progression guilds that did weekend raiding. Hell, even if a guild had Tuesday or Wednesday, with the other day or two being Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, I'd be into that. There are some out there, but unfortunately that requires character transfer which for me is probably at least $50 for my main and a second 85 for profession support/play variety.

I've realized that for the most part, after doing it for some of 2 years, I just can't commit to a raiding schedule that has more than one weeknight of more than 3 hours while being in College without having my grades or other aspects of my life suffer some. 3 hours or less a night for 3-4 nights? Maybe. If one or two nights of a 3-4 day raid schedule were Friday or Saturday? Definitely.

I'll see what I can make happen when 4.3 rolls around since I would like to complete that (as well as be overpowered to wrap up T11 and T12 raids/achievements.) If I find a part-time this semester I might be able to justify the transfers I would like to enjoy the game more again. For now, it's either no play or limited play for me.

----------

But no, I never did double-progression raiding like you mention Alex. Even though I might like to do that, I simply couldn't afford the time-sink.

 

[Alex]

Our guild did pretty good progression on their alt raids pre-4.2 Even in a small block of time (I think it was Saturday: BoT, Sunday: BWD, 2hrs each). For a little while I went to those but I got burnt on them pretty fast. Harsh on my schedule as well.

I always get a little discouraged with alts in WoW as well because I can only think about the avalanche of time I'd have to spend on them in addition to a main when the next content patch hits.

We have one person specifically in our guild though, he'd make every raid, every alt raid and he raided with another guild on the side on a third alt. Nice dude, but seriously people like that scare me a bit.

 

[ampere]

I would get way burnt out if I tried raiding with two groups per week. Some of my guildies do two or even three Firelands groups per week, one of them does it on a horde and alliance warlock.

Whatever works for them is fine, but I don't know how they can do it.

 

[strafer]

Patch 4.3+

• The new 5 man dungeons will help to introduce the Deathwing Raid.

• The current plan with the Deathwing raid is to have it all available immediately upon release.

• The Deathwing raid will be smaller than Ulduar with many phases or encounters with Deathwing.

• Patch 4.4 will bring a world event before the next expansion.

• The next expansion should be released with a "meaningful difference" in the release timeline compared to previous expansions.

mother of god

 

[Bisnic]

Deathwing raid being smaller than Ulduar is surely going to make some QQ posts.

I'll gladly take these 5 mans if they're as interesting as the ICC ones. But i wonder, is Blizzzard going to make 3 seperate queues for 5 mans once 4.3 is release? I hope not, its going to hurt them. Maybe they'll put the troll heroics in the same queue as the original ones since they'll be pretty easy by then when everyone is in T12 or T13.

 

[idlewild_]

Deathwing raid being smaller than Ulduar is surely going to make some QQ posts.

ICC was smaller than Ulduar (boss-wise,) and I would say there was still a lot of content in there. ~12 bosses is a pretty good number and around what I'd hope for. I could see a lot of QQ posts if the count ends up at/below 10.

Hopefully the 'world-event' will be awesome this time around. The world events prior to Cata were pretty lackluster.

 

[Bisnic]

Hopefully the 'world-event' will be awesome this time around. The world events prior to Cata were pretty lackluster.

I dunno, there was one screenshot i took back then that was pretty awesome when i jumped from the top floor of the SW port with Slowfall and with a huge amount of players running behind after the next wave of elementals. Was pretty cool on the first day.

 

[idlewild_]

I dunno, there was one screenshot i took back then that was pretty awesome when i jumped from the top floor of the SW port with Slowfall and with a huge amount of players running behind after the next wave of elementals. Was pretty cool on the first day.

you know, i had forgotten about the city invasions until just now. those were pretty cool i guess, as were the quests to reclaim gnomer/echo isles (the first time.) I don't know, whenever I think back to right before cata, all i really remember is boredom, lol.

edit: looking back, i would say phases 1-3 of the pre-cata events were the culprits. a couple quests unlocked every few weeks. the elemental invasions across the map probably would have been more compelling if we were forced to leave the main cities, as it was, most people i know only did enough to get the achieve.