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[Hoplatee]

The thing that gets me is that one of the excuses for making 10 and 25 man raids share the same lockout was that people felt compelled to do all 4 versions in WotLK and this was causing burnout induced subscriber churn. But MoP rolls around and they remove the daily quest limit, and when people complain about burning out from feeling compelled to do all the dailies every day, Blizz's reaction is "well, maybe do them every 3 days".

The following expac ought to bring back the 25 a day limit and ought to gate the grinds better if they insist on doing them to this extent again.

Then again, I found WotLK to be near perfection that didn't need to be messed with all that drastically in pretty much every respect.

I still don't understand that same lockout for 10/25 man change no matter how many ways they spin it. I for one enjoyed doing them all a week and it wasn't the big deal / time sink people and Blizzard make them out to be. All these dailies do indeed take up way, way, waaaay more time at the moment. That change took away lots of fun for me and is probably also some of the reasons why I also stopped with Cataclysm so early. So limited in what you could do raiding wise. Want to do 25 with your raid but 10 man with some non raider friends? Nope, sorry, won't happen.

Taking away options, no matter how they spin it is bad. Really bad. Wrath did it perfect even though I found that whole endgame raiding thing to be really easy but it never got boring. Though 1000 months of ICC was.. eh.. yeah.

And I think the daily system they made could have worked. As you said - bring back the cap but reward the daily quests with more rep. 100 rep for one quest is beyond terrible. Should have opened up all factions from the start - pick wisely which you would want to focus on first but you would get more rep per quest. Then it would feel like you were actually going forward at some decent pace instead of... this. Even now with the 100% bonus it still feels like it goes so slow.

Tillers exalted is a joke. So fast and very enjoyable. Golden Lotus is just pure pain. Insanely slow and the worst kind of quests. And after 2 days of Shado-Pan dailies I am already sick of it but yeah, some of the best rewards there for my class...

 

[Bizazedo]

They took it away because you'd gear up quicker and burn out quicker as the lack of progression smacked you in the face.

I'd like it back myself, by the way, but its absence jives pretty well with their goals.

 

[The Lamonster]

Finally got a Minfernal. feelsgoodman

 

[TimHortons]

I recently came back and accepted a scroll of res and transferred a character to my guilds new server. Problem is all my alts are still on the old server (Bloodscalp) and its really dead. I mean you can queue primetime as a tank or healer for a Level 80 5 man and wait over 30 minutes... I would not even want to try as a DPS class.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

They took it away because you'd gear up quicker and burn out quicker as the lack of progression smacked you in the face.

I'd like it back myself, by the way, but its absence jives pretty well with their goals.

I never burn out from getting gear too quickly. It just makes gearing more enjoyable for me. But I tend to find a lot of other ways to entertain myself in game as well (playing the AH, clearing old instances, looking for transmog gear, killing rares, BG's, doing unfinished questlines, and most of all leveling alts). With rep grinds so tedious and gear hard to get, I have no desire to go back and level alts to 90, and less desire to do the things I normally enjoy doing. That's because better gear makes all of the other things that much more pleasant and enjoyable.

EDIT:
I would love to see the 10/25 man raid lockout removed. Having options on what you can do is what makes wow great, not limitations (as carecrow already mentioned.) I could be completely wrong, but it seems like blizz is catering to the guilds raiding all week long, which are probably a minority of the actual people playing the game. People need to learn some self-control if they are gonna burn themselves out doing as much as possible every day every week every month.

 

[Berordn]

And we're off!

Pterrodax mount uses the proto-drake skeleton again :/

 

[Ultratech]

Finally got my Druid to 80.
Think I'm gonna try and gear him up for Herald of the Titans.
I hear it's pretty doable nowadays given all the options at 80.

While I was on him though, NPCScan picked up Time-Lost Proto Drake while I was on a Flight Path.
But because of CRZ, I knew it wasn't gonna pop up when I landed. ;_;

On the plus side, Darkmoon Faire is on this week, so extra rep is go!

 

[BriareosGAF]

And we're off!

Pterrodax mount uses the proto-drake skeleton again :/

Aesthetic for the dinosaurs is great, they've got such amazing art direction and execution for this expansion.

I was levelling archaeology yesterday and was on the coast in Swamp of Sorrows and noticed a giant tortoise skeleton with a Pandaria-themed mount on its back. Such a nice touch!

 

[Hoplatee]

And we're off!

Pterrodax mount uses the proto-drake skeleton again :/

I spot a jumping maze. Oh yes. Fun times ahead!

edit :

Or well, maybe not. Looks far to jump.

Hope it is though!

 

[Anoregon]

I was levelling archaeology yesterday and was on the coast in Swamp of Sorrows and noticed a giant tortoise skeleton with a Pandaria-themed mount on its back. Such a nice touch!

That design's actually been around since Warcraft 2, believe it or not. It was the horde analog to the gnomish submarine.

 

[FLEABttn]

With rep grinds so tedious and gear hard to get, I have no desire to go back and level alts to 90, and less desire to do the things I normally enjoy doing.

I think this is the thing that the implications of which haven't fully been realized yet. What's my motivation do play alts if I have to go through the rep grinds again to get upgraded loot aside from LFR? The BoA rep item is great, except that to get that requires me to double the amount of rep grinding on my main to obtain it.

 

[Bizazedo]

I think this is the thing that the implications of which haven't fully been realized yet. What's my motivation do play alts if I have to go through the rep grinds again to get upgraded loot aside from LFR? The BoA rep item is great, except that to get that requires me to double the amount of rep grinding on my main to obtain it.

Golden Lotus will need tweaked, I imagine. Even on an alt it's annoying, especially if you're playing your main. I'm not to revered yet.

Cloud Serpent I did to exalted in three days, though, due to the commendation and I'm already at 8000 ish of 12k into honored of Shado-Pan by Townlong Quests / Sha of Anger quest turn-in. I haven't even started Klaxxi, but that's got so many quests leading up to the daily that getting revered quickly probably won't be bad.

Having a commendation from the get go on Dominance Offensive makes it lol.

So, honestly, the commendations really did fix a lot of the issues for alts and the main issue is just waiting to valor cap the main before switching to the alt (for a casual. A hardcore guy could cap in a few days easily with the number of raids there are now).

I still think Golden Lotus needs tweaked further, though, or the key to the cache's drop rate increased.

 

[Tarazet]

Golden Lotus will need tweaked, I imagine. Even on an alt it's annoying, especially if you're playing your main. I'm not to revered yet.

Cloud Serpent I did to exalted in three days, though, due to the commendation and I'm already at 8000 ish of 12k into honored of Shado-Pan by Townlong Quests / Sha of Anger quest turn-in. I haven't even started Klaxxi, but that's got so many quests leading up to the daily that getting revered quickly probably won't be bad.

Having a commendation from the get go on Dominance Offensive makes it lol.

So, honestly, the commendations really did fix a lot of the issues for alts and the main issue is just waiting to valor cap the main before switching to the alt (for a casual. A hardcore guy could cap in a few days easily with the number of raids there are now).

I still think Golden Lotus needs tweaked further, though, or the key to the cache's drop rate increased.

If you have the commendation, you will hit Revered with the Klaxxi just by doing all the lead-in quests.

 

[Bizazedo]

If you have the commendation, you will hit Revered with the Klaxxi just by doing all the lead-in quests.

Thanks. So, there y'go then.

Rep is not a barrier to alts (really). The OCD need to cap Valor despite already being at 490 ilvl is cockblocking me more than rep.

 

[Hoplatee]

Thanks. So, there y'go then.

Rep is not a barrier to alts (really). The OCD need to cap Valor despite already being at 490 ilvl is cockblocking me more than rep.

It is a problem when you are doing two chars at the same time (without the 100% extra for a long time) so no hitting revered before dailies (using the Klaxxi example) and so on since both my chars are pretty much at the same level repwise, give or take a few days that one char had the advantage for being level 90 faster.

So for that it really sucks, no matter what. Alts that came way later when you already had a fully repped 90 and you got the 100% buff for everything already, yes, better, but you are still stuck with that terrible Golden Lotus grind for a long time.

Stuff like Cloud Serpent don't matter because you don't get anything useful from them. Same for Tillers. Those are over in no time even without the buff.

e) to clarify, not whining or something. Just saying the system itself is really flawed and that a simple extra gain in rep is not the solution in some cases, like me.

 

[Tarazet]

It is a problem when you are doing two chars at the same time (without the 100% extra for a long time) so no hitting revered before dailies (using the Klaxxi example) and so on since both my chars are pretty much at the same level repwise, give or take a few days that one char had the advantage for being level 90 faster.

So for that it really sucks, no matter what. Alts that came way later when you already had a fully repped 90 and you got the 100% buff for everything already, yes, better, but you are still stuck with that terrible Golden Lotus grind for a long time.

Stuff like Cloud Serpent don't matter because you don't get anything useful from them. Same for Tillers. Those are over in no time even without the buff.

You don't think being able to farm for Motes of Harmony is worthwhile? Alrighty then.

 

[Hoplatee]

You don't think being able to farm for Motes of Harmony is worthwhile? Alrighty then.

To me, no. For what exactly? I crafted the stuff that needed them, can't sell them or use them for anything else.

I am sure you will be able to sell them in 2 patches or so... And then they are worth nothing.

I have 28 of them in my bank, sitting there just being useless.

Edit again - But that was not my point either. You don't need rep boosts for those. The rep for those factions is right even without the buff. Why can't others be? That is what I tried to say.

 

[Bizazedo]

It is a problem when you are doing two chars at the same time so no hitting revered before dailies (using the Klaxxi example) and so on since both my chars are pretty much at the same level repwise, give or take a few days that one char had the advantage for being level 90 faster.

So for that it really sucks, no matter what. Alts that came way later when you already had a fully repped 90 and you got the 100% buff for everything already, yes, better, but you are still stuck with that terrible Golden Lotus grind for a long time.

Stuff like Cloud Serpent don't matter because you don't get anything useful from them. Same for Tillers. Those are over in no time even without the buff.

Sooo..really it's not about alts, it's just a veiled attack on the current rep system? Since it's either..

A) Your choice is either sub-optimal and it can be made "easier" or..

B) You were trying to OCD them both up and started before Commendations.

The second option admittedly sucks and is horrendous, but has been "fixed". Blizzard screwed up with how bad the rep system was for multiple characters. They can't go back in time to fix it, but what they decided to do with the commendations is nice for a go-forward (assuming they're unwilling to just go back to tabards).

And Golden Lotus is not horrible at all with the commendation (assuming revered is the goal). Maybe a week? Far quicker if you try and grind for keys, but I assume that'd be silly.

If you're trying to get two characters to 90 at the same time now....well, you're either doing it wrong or you have enough freetime where it's still quicker overall since they'd both hit at the same time. Either way, it still means rep isn't a barrier to an alt since he'd hit close to the same time and you're still just irritated at the overall system.

Which is a separate, but completely valid of course, issue.

 

[Hoplatee]

Sooo..really it's not about alts, it's just a veiled attack on the current rep system? Since it's either..

A) Your choice is either sub-optimal and it can be made "easier" or..

B) You were trying to OCD them both up and started before Commendations.

A bit of both, I suppose!

And Golden Lotus is not horrible at all with the commendation (assuming revered is the goal). Maybe a week? Far quicker if you try and grind for keys, but I assume that'd be silly.

At the rate I am going on my other char it should take around 10 days to hit Revered from somewhere at the end of Friendly I believe it was, yes.

If you're trying to get two characters to 90 at the same time now....well, you're either doing it wrong or you have enough freetime where it's still quicker overall since they'd both hit at the same time. Either way, it still means rep isn't a barrier to an alt since he'd hit close to the same time and you're still just irritated at the overall system.

Recovering from broken leg gives you lots of spare time so the free time is there, yup! But yes, it is decent, great for alts, but my whole point was... Maybe that it didn't come across well or I could play the 'English isn't my first language' card but I'll try to explain it again. The buff is fine, the rep gain with that is fine (fair even) bar the Golden Lotus grind that is still there. My main issue is how uneven faction reps take. Golden Lotus forever, Tillers insanely fast. Klaxxi decent. Cloud Serpents goes by so fast that you could barely blink twice in that time.

The faction that is the most important also feels like it drags on forever with the quests they made for it. That is the main problem I talked about earlier on as well. My dislike is mostly just based on that, not on how many chars I do it. I knew what I went into - but I did not expect it to be that... tedious and unrewarding compared to the other factions.

As I said here -

And I think the daily system they made could have worked. As you said - bring back the cap but reward the daily quests with more rep. 100 rep for one quest is beyond terrible. Should have opened up all factions from the start - pick wisely which you would want to focus on first but you would get more rep per quest. Then it would feel like you were actually going forward at some decent pace instead of... this. Even now with the 100% bonus it still feels like it goes so slow.

Edit again - But that was not my point either. You don't need rep boosts for those. The rep for those factions is right even without the buff. Why can't others be? That is what I tried to say.

Yes, not in a guild so I don't get the extra 10 rep or so per quest but I won't whine about that. It's a choice I made

 

[Bizazedo]

Ahh..then yeah, I agree. Even with the commendation, Golden Lotus is still aggravating and is the one thing I'd still "fix".

Both for mains and alts for that matter.

 

[RoninChaos]

Yeah, the golden lotus grind makes me want to kill myself. I don't feel like I'm making any progress at all.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

I hope to god that is a jumping maze. Things like Naxx Pac-man and the elevator (various ones, but the BWD one is probably my favorite in terms of number of deaths caused) are always great (fun ways) for separating the "wheat" from the "chaff."

Failing at these is not necessarily an indicator of actual skill though ...unless it happens often.

 

[Berordn]

You're not a true guild unless you make a habit of wiping on the same trash every week.

 

[The Lamonster]

I hope to god that is a jumping maze. Things like Naxx Pac-man and the elevator (various ones, but the BWD one is probably my favorite in terms of number of deaths caused) are always great (fun ways) for separating the "wheat" from the "chaff."

Failing at these is not necessarily an indicator of actual skill though ...unless it happens often.

bro fist.

 

[FLEABttn]

So, honestly, the commendations really did fix a lot of the issues for alts and the main issue is just waiting to valor cap the main before switching to the alt (for a casual. A hardcore guy could cap in a few days easily with the number of raids there are now).

Would rather it be at revered than exalted. It's kind of attempt to sweeten the deal as far as grinding to exalted goes but it effectively doubles the amount of work you have to do one the one character.

That said, I think the rep grind to unlock the ability to even spend valor is one of the worst systems they've made and I find any of the relatively equivalent systems found in TBC, WotLK, and Cata to be preferential.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

What is the commendation you guys are talking about that helps with rep?

There are so many things I missed in Pandaria because there aren't any clear directions to go while questing other than to pick up as many quests as you find and completing them all. It's made worse by having to do certain rep grinds, before other rep grinds become available, despite that you've already done all the quests for say like shado-pan... I spent a short while trying to find shado-pan dailies before I found out you have to get to revered with golden lotus before they open. It's never been like that before in any of the previous expansions. Normally, once you complete the quests for a certain faction you end up with that faction's dailies. For the longest time I thought I was missing a shado pan quest somewhere and was getting irritated that I couldn't find it.

Also, I got all the way to 90 and geared up to i-level 460 before i even realized that i missed a big quest line in krasarang wilds. I didn't have Lion's Landing on the map and didn't know operation: shieldwall even existed Once I got to 90 I couldn't remember where to find the dang flight trainer, either. Probably just means I'm an idiot, but I don't remember things being quite as confusing in the past.

Having cloud serpent, golden lotus, shado-pan, and celestial rep all tied together is depressing in my opinion.

 

[Hoplatee]

What is the commendation you guys are talking about that helps with rep?

When you hit revered you can buy one from the Faction vendor that increases your rep gains by 100% on any char account wide.

Like this one for example -

http://www.wowhead.com/item=93229

Also, does anyone know a decent looking cloak that is easy to get? I am not impressed by any of Pandaria Cloacks so far and Cataclysm stuff is still a bit hard to get. I like red and purple for what it is worth.

 

[FLEABttn]

When you hit revered you can buy one from the Faction vendor that increases your rep gains by 100% on any char account wide.

Like this one for example -

http://www.wowhead.com/item=93229

Also, does anyone know a decent looking cloak that is easy to get? I am not impressed by any of Pandaria Cloacks so far and Cataclysm stuff is still a bit hard to get. I like red and purple for what it is worth.

At work, can't check link. It's really at revered? Not exalted?

That would be good news.

 

[Hoplatee]

At work, can't check link. It's really at revered? Not exalted?

That would be good news.

Info from the (random) one I linked -

Grand Commendation of the Order of the Cloud Serpent
Item Level 1
Binds when picked up
Use: Unlocks 100% bonus reputation gain with the Order of the Cloud Serpent for all characters on this account.
Requires Order of the Cloud Serpent - Revered

Goes for all of them.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Info from the (random) one I linked -



Goes for all of them.

Thanks.

 

[Sciz]

Also, does anyone know a decent looking cloak that is easy to get? I am not impressed by any of Pandaria Cloacks so far and Cataclysm stuff is still a bit hard to get. I like red and purple for what it is worth.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=29992#comments and its color swaps are still some of the best looking cloaks in the game.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Also, does anyone know a decent looking cloak that is easy to get? I am not impressed by any of Pandaria Cloacks so far and Cataclysm stuff is still a bit hard to get. I like red and purple for what it is worth.

Icy Veins has the best transmog guide imo:
http://www.icy-veins.com/transmogrification-warlock-cloak-armor-item-model-list-wow

 

[Rokam]

I'm really glad that you won't be able to upgrade the 5.2 items right off the bat. As a filthy casual I can stop valor capping when the patch releases. Assuming that you can't get rep from the LFR version of the raid.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Dang the inscription profession can make a killing on darkmoon faire decks. I'm just gonna buy the cards individually off the ah i think. Cost is about half the price as buying the whole deck together.

 

[Kweh]

Shado-pan dailies can get fucked.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Since Wrath when it launched, Inscription starts off really strong at the start of the expansion, and then tapers off pretty dramatically after the Darkmoon decks become obsolete (or at least not absolutely BiS.)

 

[Berordn]

I'm really glad that you won't be able to upgrade the 5.2 items right off the bat. As a filthy casual I can stop valor capping when the patch releases. Assuming that you can't get rep from the LFR version of the raid.

Is there a raid rep, or is it just the Kirin Tor and Sunreaver factions on the islands?

 

[Robin64]

There's Kirin-Tor Offensive/Sunreaver Onslaught rep for the dailies on the island, and then Shado-Pan Assault rep from within the raid itself.

 

[moojito]

Damn, brewmaster monk gearing is crazy. agi flask, food, enchants, metagem, trinkets, the lot. Basically no tank gear at all. I tanked normal shek'zeer with about 230k less hp than the other (dk) tank, and took the same damage within about 1%, and did the most damage to boot.

 

[Sciz]

Damn, brewmaster monk gearing is crazy. agi flask, food, enchants, metagem, trinkets, the lot. Basically no tank gear at all. I tanked normal shek'zeer with about 230k less hp than the other (dk) tank, and took the same damage within about 1%, and did the most damage to boot.

And for any fights where you get to go windwalker, you change literally nothing. Monks are awesome. <3

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Okay so i keep doing more and more research on how to gear up and improve my i-level and it gets more and more depressing lol. LFR is not reliable. Rep grinds take too long. And now that I've looked at the cost to upgrade heroic gear, I see that upgrading is too expensive for how slow justice points and valor points are obtained. What the hell lol! Blizzard is cock blocking people at every turn. They painted this pretty awesome picture for the casual player with all these new ways to get gear, but secretly are laughing because the requirements are stupid excessive. I think i'm seriously just gonna try and make money off the AH and buy gear that way. Pretty sad when this expansion could be so much better.

EDIT:
better for me at least. not necessarily people who have time to raid with a guild. i'm just too impatient.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I hope to god that is a jumping maze. Things like Naxx Pac-man and the elevator (various ones, but the BWD one is probably my favorite in terms of number of deaths caused) are always great (fun ways) for separating the "wheat" from the "chaff."

Failing at these is not necessarily an indicator of actual skill though ...unless it happens often.

I hate things like this.

I'm all for admiring neat design and everything, but when I go to a raid I want to kill bosses and leave. I hate trash, I'm not interested in some silly minigame that takes me to the next set of trash we might wipe on because someone's being stupid or the next boss I'm going to have to stare at for hours because of progression.

Yes, yes, I know, nofunallowed.jpg, but when I raid, I wanna kill bosses. :| I loved ToC for that exact reason. Get in, kill bosses, leave.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Is there a raid rep, or is it just the Kirin Tor and Sunreaver factions on the islands?

Yeah, there's a raid rep as well, Shado-Pan Assault I believe.

 

[Meier]

How do I get back to Pandaren after the initial quest? I didn't have a tabard to port back to Org and I stayed hearthed there but now I got one so I can bind in the new continent. I tried to fly back to where I thought the airship was but to no avail (no surprise)

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

How do I get back to Pandaren after the initial quest? I didn't have a tabard to port back to Org and I stayed hearthed there but now I got one so I can bind in the new continent. I tried to fly back to where I thought the airship was but to no avail (no surprise)

There's a portal in the Valley of Honor underneath the hot air balloon (which is marked on the map). Bunch of Pandaren hanging out around there including the turtle mount vendor.

 

[Clipse]

How do I get back to Pandaren after the initial quest? I didn't have a tabard to port back to Org and I stayed hearthed there but now I got one so I can bind in the new continent. I tried to fly back to where I thought the airship was but to no avail (no surprise)

Portal in front of the AH in the Valley of Honor.

*Beaten

 

[Hoplatee]

Icy Veins has the best transmog guide imo:
http://www.icy-veins.com/transmogrification-warlock-cloak-armor-item-model-list-wow

This is awesome. Thanks!

e) Whoa, that whole site is. Never saw it before.

 

[FYC]

Odd question, does anyone else have two of the same class at 90? I'm leveling a second DK(though my first one is only at 80, haven't played him since WOTLK) because I'm too cheap to transfer him to our guilds new server, and I'd like to play one again. I happen to enjoy leveling so I don't really mind leveling one again, just curious.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Not 2 at 90, but I have a 90 warrior and another one at around 70. Thought about making another too. I also have 2 70+ mages. Will end up with 2 70+ pallies. Also have an 83 druid on A52 that I was thinking of just rerolling, but I may keep him for a transfer eventually. Besides him, I had another earlier druid at 40ish.

May be some others I'm forgetting, but my warriors and mages are the closest to what you're asking.

 

[Rokam]

Well in Cataclysm I had 2 85 paladins on the same server because one had a Ret pve & pvp spec the other was prot and holy. I'm a sick bastard. Also had 3 level 85 druids around various servers, a couple of rogues, and 2 mages.