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[Subv3rsi0n]

Eh, I think I am in the camp where I prefer that the zones are similar yet still different in their own ways. Comparing it to cataclysm is just a bad example all around, Cata zones were meant to be vastly different. Each zone (save Twilight Highlands) was supposed to represent an element since the elemental plane had been ripped and pulled to that location. Pandaria on the other hand (and the rest of azeroth, northrend included) is supposed to feel more natural. You go from Howling Fjord to Grizzly Hills seeing a slight change in scenery but not enough to be jarring, same thing when going from even Elywnn forest to Duskwood. The zones feel very different but they are still similar since technically they are apart of the same forest, just separated by a river.

If each Pandaria zone was as different as the cata zones it wouldn't make any logical sense since it's supposed to be a connected continent. This is how all the other continents flow as well (Durotar -> Barrens, Tirisfal -> EW/PL, etc.) The only thing as different as Cata zones would be Outland, but this is very much justified by the fact that Outland at one point was a planet of its own (that may have been as big as Azeroth at one point for all we know) and we are simply exploring the last few remnants that weren't destroyed by the explosion.

I'm in this camp as well, and I feel that Wrath of the Lich King executed this very well while still making each zone unique and interesting. It's not a quantitative thing, but the feel of the Pandaria experience is quite a bit different than the feel of the Northrend experience from a flow and coherence standpoint.

Disagree 100% My DK did 5.0 dailies a grand total of 1 time (and that was 1 set of GL dailies) before he could set foot into LFR and he has only cleared MSV once and he can now do HoF/Terrace. Got him there with 1 night of commendation farming on my main.

What do you mean by "commendation farming?"

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I disagree about alting, I'm a terminal altaholic and have no problem with multiple characters at 90. The reps aren't really required, and many of the good rewards for alts are ~honored. LFR itself helps alts gear up a lot quicker.

I'm not overly concerned about the dailies while leveling alts. I just wish they'd let alts pay or have some way of flying through pandaria without having to get to 90 first. That would be tremendous in my opinion.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I disagree about alting, I'm a terminal altaholic and have no problem with multiple characters at 90. The reps aren't really required, and many of the good rewards for alts are ~honored. LFR itself helps alts gear up a lot quicker.

LFR's maximum returns require a fair bit of questing on your alts regardless of your rep standings, and it feels like a waste if you end up alting without the Valor of the Ancients buff. It's better than it was at launch, but they only really fixed one problem in 5.2. 460 ilvl is still kind of a pain in the ass.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm in this camp as well, and I feel that Wrath of the Lich King executed this very well while still making each zone unique and interesting. It's not a quantitative thing, but the feel of the Pandaria experience is quite a bit different than the feel of the Northrend experience from a flow and coherence standpoint.



What do you mean by "commendation farming?"

You just fly around killing the Zandalari Warscouts who drop commendations for GL, SP, AC and Klaxxi for 1000 rep each, or 2000 if you've unlocked the bonus rep.

LFR's maximum returns require a fair bit of questing on your alts regardless of your rep standings, and it feels like a waste if you end up alting without the Valor of the Ancients buff. It's better than it was at launch, but they only really fixed one problem in 5.2. 460 ilvl is still kind of a pain in the ass.

Not really. You don't have to do anything other than wander around the Isle of Thunder until you find a Trove (which takes something like 10 minutes since nobody else can see more than one a week), which invariably will contain a Key to the Palace of Lei Shen.

 

[cdyhybrid]

It'll probably be a while before I get a third char to 90, but my DK (2nd 90) will be able to farm Warbringers for rep for himself and whatever other characters.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I disagree about alting, I'm a terminal altaholic and have no problem with multiple characters at 90. The reps aren't really required, and many of the good rewards for alts are ~honored. LFR itself helps alts gear up a lot quicker.

Yeah, to expand on my point, I currently have 8 level 90s and have had no troubles since the patch of getting them anywhere I want. The only reps you really "need" to be exalted with is Klaxxi and Lotus, and, with Klaxxi you get halfway through revered now just from questing in the Dread Wastes. Lotus exalted can be ignored if you want to just jump straight to the 522 neck you can buy for valor points as well, but, getting exalted is so easy now I just did it anyway for my DK.

He is currently at a 477 equipped ilvl and all of that is with less than a week of effort put into him. Taking care of alts is complete jokes since the patch.

I'm in this camp as well, and I feel that Wrath of the Lich King executed this very well while still making each zone unique and interesting. It's not a quantitative thing, but the feel of the Pandaria experience is quite a bit different than the feel of the Northrend experience from a flow and coherence standpoint.

Personally I feel like Pandaria and Northrend are very similar in structure. Zones feel similar yet different enough as you cross the boundries and there is a overarching story to follow through each one until Dread Wastes (I mean shit, as alliance you literally chase Anduin through 3 zones)

What do you mean by "commendation farming?"

The Zandalari rare spawns added this patch drop BoA rep tokens for the 5.0 reps. They give 1000 rep and scale with all rep bonuses (so 100% increase from each rep will put it at 2k, 2200 with guild bonus, 2400 if the character is human). The Warbringers drop 3 of them (but are not easily soloable) and the scouts drop 1. Scouts have a ridiculously fast respawn timer and multiple can be up at a time, I just fly around on my rogue killing them if I need old rep.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I wasn't a fan of the lower level Northrend zones. Maybe it's because I'm a sucker for lore. The only zone I really loved was Icecrown.

 

[Draxal]

Well, compare that to Cataclysm.

Vashj'ir - underwater zone, with spawling colours and sealife. Completely different from all other zones so far in wow.

Uldum - Desert with egyptian and titan themes

Mount Hyjal - Mount fucking hyjal, where you are pretty much fighting agains ragnaros' forces and the twilight's hammer

Deepholm - The earth elemental plane, imo the best looking zone in the game.

That last zone was shit though.

You really can't use Cata as a comparison as it's been established that variation of questing in completely different zones all over the world was a horrible idea in retrospect and is never going to be done again (Blizz said so, but Blizz says alot of things).

I wasn't a fan of the lower level Northrend zones. Maybe it's because I'm a sucker for lore. The only zone I really loved was Icecrown.

Borean was really ugly, howling's decent, Grizzly hills was a great zone.

 

[Subv3rsi0n]

You just fly around killing the Zandalari Warscouts who drop commendations for GL, SP, AC and Klaxxi for 1000 rep each, or 2000 if you've unlocked the bonus rep.

The Zandalari rare spawns added this patch drop BoA rep tokens for the 5.0 reps. They give 1000 rep and scale with all rep bonuses (so 100% increase from each rep will put it at 2k, 2200 with guild bonus, 2400 if the character is human). The Warbringers drop 3 of them (but are not easily soloable) and the scouts drop 1. Scouts have a ridiculously fast respawn timer and multiple can be up at a time, I just fly around on my rogue killing them if I need old rep.

Ah, yes. I know of the tokens, I just didn't realize that these were called commendations as well. In my initial post, I was referring to the Grand Commendations that allow 100% reputation unlock. The Zandalari tokens probably make reputation on alts considerably easier to obtain, I should check it out.

Edit: Not to be a pedant, but it looks like the Zandalari reputation drops are actually called Insignias.

Personally I feel like Pandaria and Northrend are very similar in structure. Zones feel similar yet different enough as you cross the boundries and there is a overarching story to follow through each one until Dread Wastes (I mean shit, as alliance you literally chase Anduin through 3 zones)

I play Horde, so perhaps there's a bit of a disconnect in our experiences due to that.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Ah, yes. I know of the tokens, I just didn't realize that these were called commendations as well. In my initial post, I was referring to the Grand Commendations that allow 100% reputation unlock. The Zandalari tokens probably make reputation on alts considerably easier to obtain, I should check it out.

It's not even a probably, check out my mage, she is level 89 and is exalted with Celestials. Well, ok, she is 5k away but that is because I have commendations sitting in her mailbox I've just been too lazy to use them since I have been doing other stuff lately.

 

[Berordn]

Grizzly Hills is probably the best zone in the game just for what it does and how it does it. You don't realize it until you're almost finished, but the entire zone is about Yogg-Saron, and all the eerie motifs in the otherwise peaceful music and environment suddenly makes sense.

I'm disappointed that N'Zoth and Y'Sharrj don't seem to be doing the same fridge horror twists.

 

[Subv3rsi0n]

It's not even a probably, check out my mage, she is level 89 and is exalted with Celestials. Well, ok, she is 5k away but that is because I have commendations sitting in her mailbox I've just been too lazy to use them since I have been doing other stuff lately.

Wow, that's fantastic. I think I'll start farming these guys when I get home tonight. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Cute Dragon Here]

I find World of Warcraft taking more and more time every day even as I'm just finishing up starter content... it's like it wants to be part of my life.

Guess I was warned about it!

 

[Subv3rsi0n]

I find World of Warcraft taking more and more time every day even as I'm just finishing up starter content... it's like it wants to be part of my life.

Guess I was warned about it!

Which class did you decide on? Or, are you trying out the undead hunter?

 

[TimeKillr]

So last night we did an alt run on MSV just for kicks (our main healer couldn't be there to raid).

We cleared the damn thing in 1h17m. Never ran through a full raid from an expansion that quickly... Not a single wipe or anything.

Felt good

 

[Angry Grimace]

Grizzly Hills is probably the best zone in the game just for what it does and how it does it. You don't realize it until you're almost finished, but the entire zone is about Yogg-Saron, and all the eerie motifs in the otherwise peaceful music and environment suddenly makes sense.

I'm disappointed that N'Zoth and Y'Sharrj don't seem to be doing the same fridge horror twists.

N'Zoth and Y'Sharrj practically don't exist. They're each literally mentioned once (by the Faceless One in Dragon Soul and by the Klaxxi at Exalted), although Y'Sharrj is going to have a scenario about retrieving his heart or whatever soon.

 

[Westlo]

Vashj'ir is the place for mining nodes and gathering herbs in cata zones. I think many players choose to level through Mount Hyjal to avoid the hassle of a water world. I got ganked a bunch while in hyjal leveling my rogue and promptly switched to vashj'ir. Was so much better. And then I took my warrior back to vashj'ir to farm ore to level my rogue's engineering. A lot less competition for nodes and you cover more ground with the seahorse's travel speed.

People stuck with Hyjal not only for that but because it also started your firelands quest chain. Hyjal had some decent world pvp on my server too before CRZ.

 

[ZenaxPure]

N'Zoth and Y'Sharrj practically don't exist. They're each literally mentioned once (by the Faceless One in Dragon Soul and by the Klaxxi at Exalted), although Y'Sharrj is going to have a scenario about retrieving his heart or whatever soon.

Hey man, N'zoth has likely been manipulating stuff since vanilla! Fandral was corrupted by the nightmare lord who was a pawn of N'zoth (most likely as confirmed sorta casually by Metzen) and he used all that damn morrowgrain we gave him in vanilla to keep Malfurion trapped in the emerald nightmare since vanilla. N'zoth has been the true villain since before we knew who he was!

Spoiler

Note while everything I just typed is true I realize it's absurdity, I was purposefully being sarcastic as I will never let a moment pass me by to shoot down the Stormrage novel

 

[Subv3rsi0n]

Hey man, N'zoth has likely been manipulating stuff since vanilla! Fandral was corrupted by the nightmare lord who was a pawn of N'zoth (most likely as confirmed sorta casually by Metzen) and he used all that damn morrowgrain we gave him in vanilla to keep Malfurion trapped in the emerald nightmare since vanilla. N'zoth has been the true villain since before we knew who he was!

Spoiler

Note while everything I just typed is true I realize it's absurdity, I was purposefully being sarcastic as I will never let a moment pass me by to shoot down the Stormrage novel

Is that Morrowgrain thing true? If so, that's absurd.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Is that Morrowgrain thing true? If so, that's absurd.

Yep, in the book it's discovered (by Broll I think) that Fandral was using the Morrowgrain players had been giving him since vanilla as a way to keep Malfurion locked in the emerald dream.

I'd almost consider it clever if the rest of the book wasn't just as absurd and stupid.

 

[Sax Russel]

BITCHES BE ALL OVER THIS

Dunno why I pulled this out of the void, I've been wearing T3 as my transmog (and will probably go back to it soon), but I have a soft spot for AQ even if the set was ugly as hell. Nothing quite like 40 man C'Thun or Ouro. #randomnostalgia

 

[Subv3rsi0n]

Yep, in the book it's discovered (by Broll I think) that Fandral was using the Morrowgrain players had been giving him since vanilla as a way to keep Malfurion locked in the emerald dream.

I'd almost consider it clever if the rest of the book wasn't just as absurd and stupid.

Wow, that's ridiculous.

 

[Westlo]

Dat heroic scenarios

 

[ZenaxPure]

Wow, that's ridiculous.

That shit ain't even the most ridiculous stuff in the book. How do you feel about a random human who magically can go in and out of the emerald dream as he pleases because his mother literally birthed him inside the dream? Or better yet what about Malfurion literally being turned into a tree (ok, maybe that one isn't that crazy, but still, it's pretty crazy).

In all seriousness though, N'zoth had a big spotlight in Vanilla but he wasn't named back then, and, most people never had the opportunity to do that quest chain anyway since even before it was removed soloing it wasn't really possible. I fully expect him to still take the stage again if and when Blizz decides to bring back Emerald Dream related stuff.

 

[Subv3rsi0n]

That shit ain't even the most ridiculous stuff in the book. How do you feel about a random human who magically can go in and out of the emerald dream as he pleases because his mother literally birthed him inside the dream? Or better yet what about Malfurion literally being turned into a tree (ok, maybe that one isn't that crazy, but still, it's pretty crazy).

In all seriousness though, N'zoth had a big spotlight in Vanilla but he wasn't named back then, and, most people never had the opportunity to do that quest chain anyway since even before it was removed soloing it wasn't really possible. I fully expect him to still take the stage again if and when Blizz decides to bring back Emerald Dream related stuff.

I kind of feel like I should read this book for the sheer entertainment that the awful lore would provide.

 

[Sciz]

Jade Forest is fantastic from a level design perspective. There's no other zone in the game that's so fun to just run around and explore, where there's something new to see around every corner. All the other Pandaria zones reverted to monotonous rolling plains or dense forest with near zero variation, excepting Kun-lai Summit proper.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I kind of feel like I should read this book for the sheer entertainment that the awful lore would provide.

I'm a big fan of the lore in general, and I love reading the books, but, man that book right there is hot garbage. A lot of people have never liked Knaak even outside of his Warcraft books, but I actually enjoyed Day of the Dragon and the War of the Ancients trilogy. I didn't think he started losing it until Night of the Dragon (which I still enjoyed!) where Rhonin is having conversations with raptors to form a raptor army and there is a bit too much time spent implying that Deathwing was a sex addict with a penis so corrupted by old gods and so deformed by magma-blood-stuff that it literally burns away skin.

Stormrage though impressively is more boring than it is bad. We often talk about how video games are padded with filler content to artificially extend the length, but, Stormrage was the first time I've seen that concept applied to a book (granted, I don't read a lot). They have a clever concept early on of teasing you with a short story like chapter that ends with "it was actually a dream, these people are trapped in the nightmare!" but then like every other chapter is another one of those. Literally does nothing but pad the length of the book as no important story stuff happens during it.

I'm glad all the important stuff is usually written by Christie Golden nowadays. The pre-cataclysm book Shattering and the Thrall books were fantastic, going to start the Theramore one pretty soon.

 

[Cute Dragon Here]

Which class did you decide on? Or, are you trying out the undead hunter?

I decided to just stick with my first character (after skipping the first, glitch-ridden one due to streaming issues). Still a female Worgen warrior.

It's strangely comfy levelling in here! Right now I'm level 18, and it's awkwardly close to 20 now. sometimes I wish movement in general was faster for every character, though. Guess I need to bind the auto-movement key to something not on the numeric keypad!

 

[Subv3rsi0n]

I'm a big fan of the lore in general, and I love reading the books, but, man that book right there is hot garbage. A lot of people have never liked Knaak even outside of his Warcraft books, but I actually enjoyed Day of the Dragon and the War of the Ancients trilogy. I didn't think he started losing it until Night of the Dragon (which I still enjoyed!) where Rhonin is having conversations with raptors to form a raptor army and there is a bit too much time spent implying that Deathwing was a sex addict with a penis so corrupted by old gods and so deformed by magma-blood-stuff that it literally burns away skin.

Stormrage though impressively is more boring than it is bad. We often talk about how video games are padded with filler content to artificially extend the length, but, Stormrage was the first time I've seen that concept applied to a book (granted, I don't read a lot). They have a clever concept early on of teasing you with a short story like chapter that ends with "it was actually a dream, these people are trapped in the nightmare!" but then like every other chapter is another one of those. Literally does nothing but pad the length of the book as no important story stuff happens during it.

I'm glad all the important stuff is usually written by Christie Golden nowadays. The pre-cataclysm book Shattering and the Thrall books were fantastic, going to start the Theramore one pretty soon.

I have yet to read a Warcraft book, but I've heard that the Christie Golden ones are fantastic. I'm definitely going to give them a read based on your recommendation.

I decided to just stick with my first character (after skipping the first, glitch-ridden one due to streaming issues). Still a female Worgen warrior.

It's strangely comfy levelling in here! Right now I'm level 18, and it's awkwardly close to 20 now. sometimes I wish movement in general was faster for every character, though. Guess I need to bind the auto-movement key to something not on the numeric keypad!

Yeah, up until 20 the auto-run key is your best friend. Only two levels to go until you get your mount, though!

Jade Forest is fantastic from a level design perspective. There's no other zone in the game that's so fun to just run around and explore, where there's something new to see around every corner. All the other Pandaria zones reverted to monotonous rolling plains or dense forest with near zero variation, excepting Kun-lai Summit proper.

That's what I loved about Jade Forest. It was the first zone since vanilla that made me actually take a break from questing through it to explore.

 

[Hoplatee]

Yeah, up until 20 the auto-run key is your best friend. Only two levels to go until you get your mount, though!

Got it on my mouse. Best bind ever!

I guess most people do since I think it sets to it by default if you have some (or in my case many) buttons.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I have yet to read a Warcraft book, but I've heard that the Christie Golden ones are fantastic. I'm definitely going to give them a read based on your recommendation.

I think it all boils down to what you like in the universe. I really enjoyed the Cataclysm book because the pre-cata quest chains tied directly into it (there is even a few nods at the player characters in the story), it's a solid book but reading it around that same time frame made it all the better for me. They've been cranking out books since way before WoW was even released, a lot of those (such as the book about Khagdar) take place in literally a different era of the universe and cover different topics. There is even a book about Thrall's journey to create the new horde.

For anyone interested in books I'd just find a topic in the game you actually find cool and then find related books, short stories, or comics (as they probably exist). My first book was Day of the Dragon simply because I thought the Dragons of WoW were cool and I wanted to know more about them (and that curiosity stemmed from the Green Dragon world bosses in vanilla).

I think my favorite book, though, is actually the one written by Metzen himself. Of Blood and Honor, takes place some time between WC2 and WC3 and is all about how Fordring became friends with Eitrigg and as a result got banished from hearthglen and stratholme. It's pretty much a prequel to that epic Fordring quest line in vanilla and fit so perfectly with it, made me appreciate that quest chain even more once I read it.

 

[Bizazedo]

If we're going to a book hate tangent, Arthas is a horrible book and made me not trust Golden. I'd even say the Jaina book was pretty bad.

In fact, it was really bad. Came off as bad fanfic.

The main issue I have with all of these books is that they fail to really properly integrate the Horde and Alliance and their component parts into actual nations. The authors never scale things up properly.

It's always like "an army is coming! It must be like 50 dudes strong!"

 

[ZenaxPure]

I never actually read Arthas, seemed mostly like a way to explain Jaina and Arthas' pasts together which, while I wanted to read at some point just didn't interest me THATTT much. Still actually looking forward to reading the Theramore book though.

 

[Draxal]

I think Warcraft's lore was always garbage. Even during the warcraft 1-2 days, and it only got worse during Wow. It makes the most improbable incomprhensive mangas look like literary masterpieces in the end.

 

[Subv3rsi0n]

I think Warcraft's lore was always garbage. Even during the warcraft 1-2 days, and it only got worse during Wow. It makes the most improbable incomprhensive mangas look like literary masterpieces in the end.

While the retconning can get rather ridiculous at times, there are, in my opinion, very few franchises out there with lore as robust and interesting as Warcraft's.

 

[Tarazet]

I decided to just stick with my first character (after skipping the first, glitch-ridden one due to streaming issues). Still a female Worgen warrior.

It's strangely comfy levelling in here! Right now I'm level 18, and it's awkwardly close to 20 now. sometimes I wish movement in general was faster for every character, though. Guess I need to bind the auto-movement key to something not on the numeric keypad!

I started playing in Cata, and my first toon was a male Worgen Druid. Worgens definitely have their advantages for just starting out. You don't get the same shenanigans as Druids do, but as a Worgen, you will get an ability called Running Wild at level 20 which allows you to drop to all fours and run as fast as a mount. At level 40, the ability automatically gets faster. Very useful for a poor newb, since you don't have to spend the gold on riding training.

 

[Anoregon]

The last page of this thread made me change my avatar

yogg or gtfo

 

[ZenaxPure]

The last page of this thread made me change my avatar

yogg or gtfo

Yogg is a cool dude, seemed a lot more cunning and clever than C'thun who seemed more into blowing dudes up with laser beams than anything else.

 

[FYC]

I read the Mage manga / comic which was written by Knaak, it was okay. Predictable and had a couple of dumb moments(one made me say "WHAT?!" out loud due to its absurdity), but entertaining enough. Thankfully not awful like Mass Effect Deception or something.

 

[Anoregon]

I've always really enjoy the Warcraft lore on the macro level. The over-arching themes and conflicts that make up all the games; The Orcish invasion through the Dark portal, Old Gods, Deathwing and all that. It's the micro-level stuff that tends to get crappy, inconsistent characters and retcons that usually end up ruining characters you liked or making you hate characters you were indifferent towards.

I don't hate them all, though. A lot of the characters that haven't suffered from being stretched and over-explained in WoW are still cool. Like Gul'Dan and Lothar. Hell, I'm even one of the few people who actually liked Tirion Fordring in Wrath. I never really understood the up-swell of hate for the character. I thought he was rather well developed, especially compared to some of the other big-name NPC's.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I don't hate them all, though. A lot of the characters that haven't suffered from being stretched and over-explained in WoW are still cool. Like Gul'Dan and Lothar. Hell, I'm even one of the few people who actually liked Tirion Fordring in Wrath. I never really understood the up-swell of hate for the character. I thought he was rather well developed, especially compared to some of the other big-name NPC's.

Yeah, Fordring is a cool dude, I've liked him since that original quest chain with him.

That said, I think blizzard has done a pretty decent job at calming down with the retcons and silly character stuff lately. Garrosh is a pretty big outlier in a lot of ways (since some of the cata quests make him seem more wise, his MoP self is more in-line with the Garrosh we saw in WOTLK) but in general I feel like they have been going in a good direction with most of the characters since Cata. Pretty much all of the faction leader short stories were pretty awesome, for example.

I think one of the bigger problems was a lot of character development came from the books so when it suddenly changed in the game it could be jarring for a lot of people. Stuff like the daily hub in 5.1 has allowed them to bypass this issue and it's been pretty awesome. Only problem now is you really need a character on both factions to see the fully story of what is happening.

 

[Draxal]

I've always really enjoy the Warcraft lore on the macro level. The over-arching themes and conflicts that make up all the games; The Orcish invasion through the Dark portal, Old Gods, Deathwing and all that. It's the micro-level stuff that tends to get crappy, inconsistent characters and retcons that usually end up ruining characters you liked or making you hate characters you were indifferent towards.

I don't hate them all, though. A lot of the characters that haven't suffered from being stretched and over-explained in WoW are still cool. Like Gul'Dan and Lothar. Hell, I'm even one of the few people who actually liked Tirion Fordring in Wrath. I never really understood the up-swell of hate for the character. I thought he was rather well developed, especially compared to some of the other big-name NPC's.

The problem with Tirion is he came out of no where. He was just some random old dude that you helped in a quest chain, and then he's suddenly leader of the knights of the silver hand/argent dawn/crusade and they don't explain why.

There is some story parts of Wow that I do enjoy, I did like the darrowshire, and faction bosses of vanilla (demetria/and the horde undead hunter guy), and old duskwood were done really well.

Also, the fact they have to deal with all the knaak stupid shit (RAPTORS/MEDAN), just makes the lore one gigantic knot of stupidity.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I always laugh when people claim "X thing can't occur because of the lore."

The Lore of the game exists solely to create content in the video game.

The problem with Tirion is he came out of no where. He was just some random old dude that you helped in a quest chain, and then he's suddenly leader of the knights of the silver hand/argent dawn/crusade and they don't explain why.

There is some story parts of Wow that I do enjoy, I did like the darrowshire, and faction bosses of vanilla (demetria/and the horde undead hunter guy), and old duskwood were done really well.

Also, the fact they have to deal with all the knaak stupid shit (RAPTORS/MEDAN), just makes the lore one gigantic knot of stupidity.

I don't agree at all. Tirion was explained pretty well, particularly through the DK starting quests and his old quests in Vanilla, etc. It isn't like he just showed in ICC and killed the Lich King, he was there in pretty much all of it.

 

[Draxal]

I always laugh when people claim "X thing can't occur because of the lore."

The Lore of the game exists solely to create content in the video game.


I don't agree at all. Tirion was explained pretty well, particularly through the DK starting quests and his old quests in Vanilla, etc. It isn't like he just showed in ICC and killed the Lich King, he was there in pretty much all of it.

His quest chain in vanilla was trying to get his son out of the Scarlet Crusade as a hermit. Then boom he's suddenly the leader of the knights of the silver hand/argent dawn.

Which is silly because the Knights of the Silver Hand were the alliance paladin faction, but suddenly merged into the Argent Dawn as a neutral faction.

 

[ZenaxPure]

The problem with Tirion is he came out of no where. He was just some random old dude that you helped in a quest chain, and then he's suddenly leader of the knights of the silver hand/argent dawn/crusade and they don't explain why.

Um, actually at the end of his original quest chain when his son dies Tirion has a speech about how he is going to reform the order and stuff, and that is from vanilla. Not exactly a big mystery or anything, but I could see how someone could be confused if they never did that original quest chain.

 

[Trickster]

You really can't use Cata as a comparison as it's been established that variation of questing in completely different zones all over the world was a horrible idea in retrospect and is never going to be done again (Blizz said so, but Blizz says alot of things).

The problem with the cata zones was that they felt too disconnected from each other. This was mainly because that they were not part of a single continent, unlike the other expansions.

The other issue with doing it like they did in cataclysm, is that they completely ignored one of the strongest aspects of the northrend zones, that overarching story with the antagonist of the expansion, and how the bleed directly into every zone.

However the Cataclysm zones, despite being more seperated from each other than the other expansion pack zones, were still much, much more interesting that the MoP zones. Which for the most part consists of either A - asian feeling forests. Or B - asian feeling open plain and mountains

 

[Draxal]

Um, actually at the end of his original quest chain when his son dies Tirion has a speech about how he is going to reform the order and stuff, and that is from vanilla. Not exactly a big mystery or anything, but I could see how someone could be confused if they never did that original quest chain.

See my post before hand he meant to reform the silver hand when the knights of the silver hand were dwarven/human paladins (it was a lore inconsitency problem in vanilla), and it's not like the Argent Dawn didn't have its leaders already. To be fair, it was a huge pet peeve of mine.

I think the bigger issue against Tirion was that there two was established lore characters that had much strongers ties to the LK (Jaina/Sylvanas).

 

[ZenaxPure]

See my post before hand he meant to reform the silver hand when the knights of the silver hand were dwarven/human paladins (it was a lore inconsitency problem in vanilla), and it's not like the Argent Dawn didn't have its leaders already.

That was more a naming thing than anything, his order of the silver hand is not the same one that existed before. He literally calls it the "new order of the silver hand" in the quest text (which still exists out there on wowpedia if you need a refresher!)

As for the Argent Crusade, to me anyway that just seems like a logical conclusion for the Argent Dawn, the Ashbringer was a very important weapon and it only made sense for the Dawn to follow the person who was wielding it. Especially considering that the Argent Dawn is most likely in shambles at the end of the DK starter zone, you murder a good chunk of them in that quest. This would also be supported by the fact that the Argent Dawn was made up of 90% humans but when you quest through Argent Crusade hubs every race (including Horde races) is represented, I really don't think much of the original Argent Dawn exists by the end of that DK starting zone.

 

[Draxal]

That was more a naming thing than anything, his order of the silver hand is not the same one that existed before. He literally calls it the "new order of the silver hand" in the quest text (which still exists out there on wowpedia if you need a refresher!)

As for the Argent Crusade, to me anyway that just seems like a logical conclusion for the Argent Dawn, the Ashbringer was a very important weapon and it only made sense for the Dawn to follow the person who was wielding it. Especially considering that the Argent Dawn is most likely in shambles at the end of the DK starter zone, you murder a good chunk of them in that quest. This would also be supported by the fact that the Argent Dawn was made up of 90% humans but when you quest through Argent Crusade hubs every race (including Horde races) is represented, I really don't think much of the original Argent Dawn exists by the end of that DK starting zone.

All the human/dwarven paladin quests in vanilla wow, called you knights of the silver hand. It was a lore consistency issue in vanilla, as I honesty think they meant to imply that the silver hand faction died off with what Tyrion did.

The argent crusade was created because they needed a new faction to replace the Argent Dawn just like they needed a new faction to replace the Cenarion Circle in BC/Cata. Pretty much every much named argent dawn npc is alive either in modern EPL or were alive in Northrend (all the AD aligned faction questgivers including the one that actually died in vanilla naxx), so I really don't buy that decimated thing,

But like I said before that was a pet peeve of mine, the bigger issue was there was no attachment for horde players to Tirion (just like there was none for Alliance players to Thrall in Cata ... but at least Thrall was a huge player in Wow and WC3), and there were big npcs that actually had reason to kill Arthas in Jaina/Slyvanas. It would be like having Nobundo/that blood elf paladin whatsherface helping you kill off Illidan instead of Akama/wc3 expansion character.

 

[ZenaxPure]

The argent crusade was created because they needed a new faction to replace the Argent Dawn just like they needed a new faction to replace the Cenarion Circle in BC/Cata. Pretty much every much named argent dawn npc is alive either in modern EPL or were alive in Northrend (all the AD aligned faction questgivers including the one that actually died in vanilla naxx), so I really don't buy that decimated thing,

I'm not really talking about the named people. The final DK quest literally has you waging war against the Argent Dawn and there is a ticker counting down how much of their army is left. It's not explicitly stated how many of the Argent Dawn's order is at Light's Hope Chapel in that battle, but pretty much every non-named member is killed there.

As for the order, the quest text clearly states it's a new thing so whatever, I don't want to argue in circles or anything, believe what you wish. You also need to keep in mind Fordring would not have the slightest clue about other members (who were mostly gathered in Stormwind during vanilla) as he spent all of his late-life time in E/WPL.