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World of Warcraft |OT4| "Why do we keep playing? It is simply in our nature."

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Gushing time.

After six weeks of defeat by that stupid fucking dinosaur, I'n happy to say that we ripped him apart tonight. And we two healed it, too.

Parsed over 140k DPS. We messed around with Council for a few attempts. Already did great, almost got Sul. We won't be stuck there long at all.

I feel good.
 

Slayerx

Member
Time to vent a little. I've been playing an mmo (not going to name it because it's not important). I want to stress that I like the game and it has some very neat ideas that I appreciate, I can see that developers loved what they were making.

One part of the questing experience just infuriated me and made me appreciate what Blizzard did with WoW over the years so much. I basically had to put down the game for the time being. During some stretches I had to run back for 10 minutes to hand in ONE quest. I would estimate 80% of that whole zone was being spent running between objectives and quest givers. It was sort of like going back into Vanilla WoW but even then there was some flow with quests, the hubs had purpose.

The tradeoff is fairly obvious here, some of the freedom and exploration aspect has to be given up to achieve "the flow" but I think the balance is good in MoP, instead of having one overarching ride you get 5-8 rides per zone so there is still some element of freedom. I think Mantid zones needed to have at least 2-3 more storylines each because the zones seem to be underutilized and even empty in parts.
 

Whooter

Member
I've fallen off the wagon. :(

Currently in Jade Forest.

DAMN YOU!

tumblr_ljurykE5y21qzxc1l.gif
 
Time to vent a little. I've been playing an mmo (not going to name it because it's not important). I want to stress that I like the game and it has some very neat ideas that I appreciate, I can see that developers loved what they were making.

One part of the questing experience just infuriated me and made me appreciate what Blizzard did with WoW over the years so much. I basically had to put down the game for the time being. During some stretches I had to run back for 10 minutes to hand in ONE quest. I would estimate 80% of that whole zone was being spent running between objectives and quest givers. It was sort of like going back into Vanilla WoW but even then there was some flow with quests, the hubs had purpose.

The tradeoff is fairly obvious here, some of the freedom and exploration aspect has to be given up to achieve "the flow" but I think the balance is good in MoP, instead of having one overarching ride you get 5-8 rides per zone so there is still some element of freedom. I think Mantid zones needed to have at least 2-3 more storylines each because the zones seem to be underutilized and even empty in parts.

I think one thing MoP has done to make exploration feel important again was hiding all the non-questing stuff everywhere. There's rare mobs all over the place, many you wouldn't run into during questing. There's also the treasures of Pandaria and those typically are even more hidden. Those lore scrolls are mixed between easy to come across and some in truly hard to spot places. Pandaria feels really packed and detailed in comparison to all the previous regions due to all that extra stuff. I'd have to imagine they'll continue with similar stuff in their next expansion and I'm really looking forward to that.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
I'd have to imagine they'll continue with similar stuff in their next expansion and I'm really looking forward to that.

Same, at this point I can't picture another expansion without a bunch of cool treasures and rare spawns in each of the zones. It just sounds so... boring without them. Another thing I like about the zones is just the mobs/npcs that... serve no purpose really. I feel like in Cata and even the other expansions to a degree every npc or mob has a purpose in the zone, Mists, though, has a bunch of areas, mobs, and npcs that really serve no purpose other than to decorate the zone. Some of those are tied to scenarios that take place in that area but then others are just completely random, it spices up the continent a lot. Like, Sri-La village is one of my favorite places in Pandaria because of how cool it looks but it served no purpose until this patch other than being a cool place to see as you flew around.
 
So I want to get gurthalak for my warrior. He's 80. Would it be worth it to hit 85, buy mist greens and turn off XP so I can do LFR? Or should I just get him to 90? There aren't exactly a lot of pickup groups for dragon soul going on as far as I can tell.

Can I stay in a city chat even when I'm out in the world?
 
I can't for the life of me find a common thread for the story. I see you Guys talking about all these story beats and how awesome everything is but I don't have that experience. Am I missing something here? Did I miss some quests?
 
So I want to get gurthalak for my warrior. He's 80. Would it be worth it to hit 85, buy mist greens and turn off XP so I can do LFR? Or should I just get him to 90? There aren't exactly a lot of pickup groups for dragon soul going on as far as I can tell.

Can I stay in a city chat even when I'm out in the world?

Do you really want the LFR colors? People still run that place for achievements and mounts, if you don't find a group in trade, openraid.us (or .eu) is a great place to find cross server groups for this stuff.
 

Tamanon

Banned
I can't for the life of me find a common thread for the story. I see you Guys talking about all these story beats and how awesome everything is but I don't have that experience. Am I missing something here? Did I miss some quests?

The story beats really start to be interwoven when you hit Pandaria. Before then, there wasn't as much of a cohesive story.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Are Ret pallies like shit dps in pve or something?

They are pretty terrible, especially if you can't get a good weapon. There's a reason they're getting a ~15% boost in 5.3. It was amazing how much more damage I was doing with my Frost DK who was 10 ilevels behind my Ret paladin.
 
The story beats really start to be interwoven when you hit Pandaria. Before then, there wasn't as much of a cohesive story.
I'm in pandaria. I have 2 level 90s. I quested quite a bit and got a lot out of it but I feel at one point it stopped being cohesive.
 
Windwaker, ret and enhancement are bottom of the barrel DPS ATM I think.

Depends how much you trust the site but Noxxic ranks them quite differently: http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum#502

I changed the gear numbers around and ret definitely gets low but it's not the worst according to them. But I personally don't think Noxxic is the best site around for information. I know some people refer to it, though.

And I found ret incredibly boring to play. I always leveled my paladins as prot. I finally tried one as ret from around 50-75 and had to change it back during Wrath content.
 

Berordn

Member
Windwaker, ret and enhancement are bottom of the barrel DPS ATM I think.

Only ret. Windwalker and Enhancement are up there with the big boys.

Everyone's really close, though.

Depends how much you trust the site but Noxxic ranks them quite differently: http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/maximum#502

I changed the gear numbers around and ret definitely gets low but it's not the worst according to them. But I personally don't think Noxxic is the best site around for information. I know some people refer to it, though.

Noxxic's numbers just come from the very controlled simcraft heroic results for the current tier, but there hasn't been a fight with these ideal conditions the entire expansion.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
Worst part about Ret is how fucking bursty it is. First time I went into Terrace LFR on my paladin I was around 465 ilvl or so (was cheating the system to get in) and on Sha during all my cooldowns and heroism I popped up to almost 200k (which is stupid on it's own considering I had multiple blue pieces of gear) then afterwards immediately fell down to like 70k. So ridiculous.

I'm in pandaria. I have 2 level 90s. I quested quite a bit and got a lot out of it but I feel at one point it stopped being cohesive.

Well, zones are split into multiple story arcs. I mean, the quest achievements are quite literally split up based on their story. Jade forest is a mix of random exploration story arcs + settings up for a big battle between Alliance/Horde. Krasarang is about magical water, part of Kun-Lai has setup for the Isle of Thunder, and so on. Townlong and Dread Wastes break the trend a bit though, Townlong is all about assisting the Shado-Pan with the Mantid and the Sha (if you quested there you noticed meeting the same NPCs constantly and moving further through the land with them) and Dread Wastes was all about you accidentally becoming the Wakener and having to travel around the zone collecting all of the Paragons.
 

strafer

member
Rogues are so much fun.

Quests where I had to kill to get through or in a cave I can just Stealth through like a boss.

Also.. 40% more XP.

dem heirlooms

<3
 
So I did the fishing contest for the first time last week and won, picked the boots cause teleports fuck yeah! This week rolls around and I feel like I should try again for dat +40 pole.

I'm on a PvP server and that's annoying so I open up a 2nd client, get on a friend's PvE server character and invite myself so that I'm put in that CRZ cluster and unflagged. Cool beans so far.

I fuck up amazingly in a way that requires too much typing to go over, but it costs me ~2 minutes at the start. On top of that, near the end, I realize I forgot to set my hearth to BB (and those boots I got last week? They have a one day CD and I used them to get out to STV in the first place earlier -_-)

CRZ or not, the winning and the yells that accompany the winning are specific to your realm. So the 1st place yell goes out when I have ~6 fish to go... figures. The 2nd place yell goes out as I'm flying back to BB. Great, won't even get an heirloom ring out of it. Dejectedly I arrive in BB and talk to the goblin... but I can select every reward?! I quickly pick the pole and hit complete, and another yell goes out. That I've won 1st place. A little bit later a 2nd 2nd place yell goes out. I scroll back my chat and check all these names, and they're all from my realm. The 1st place, the 2nd, the 2nd 2nd. So that's really weird. Perhaps being in a cross realm group and in a different CRZ cluster than your default one resets the winners list somehow? I don't even know. Glad I got my pole though =D
 

Draxal

Member
Rets need a cleave desperately. Also they probably could use a change to the Inquisition glyph to match it to the savage roar one.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Only ret. Windwalker and Enhancement are up there with the big boys.

Everyone's really close, though.



Noxxic's numbers just come from the very controlled simcraft heroic results for the current tier, but there hasn't been a fight with these ideal conditions the entire expansion.

WW isn't that great. RSK is getting a 10% damage buff, so obviously Blizzard doesn't agree. A lot of the "high" WW DPS is just Storm Earth and Fire spamming on appropriate fights.
 
Worst part about Ret is how fucking bursty it is. First time I went into Terrace LFR on my paladin I was around 465 ilvl or so (was cheating the system to get in) and on Sha during all my cooldowns and heroism I popped up to almost 200k (which is stupid on it's own considering I had multiple blue pieces of gear) then afterwards immediately fell down to like 70k. So ridiculous.



Well, zones are split into multiple story arcs. I mean, the quest achievements are quite literally split up based on their story. Jade forest is a mix of random exploration story arcs + settings up for a big battle between Alliance/Horde. Krasarang is about magical water, part of Kun-Lai has setup for the Isle of Thunder, and so on. Townlong and Dread Wastes break the trend a bit though, Townlong is all about assisting the Shado-Pan with the Mantid and the Sha (if you quested there you noticed meeting the same NPCs constantly and moving further through the land with them) and Dread Wastes was all about you accidentally becoming the Wakener and having to travel around the zone collecting all of the Paragons.

How does that lead into Terrace? I don't get the story of it. I get the story of Heart of Fear, and of Mogushan vaults, but after that I feel like any story progression I had for the game and its events dropped off. WHich is odd, because I felt like Pandaria did story telling the best out of all the expansions.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
How does that lead into Terrace? I don't get the story of it. I get the story of Heart of Fear, and of Mogushan vaults, but after that I feel like any story progression I had for the game and its events dropped off. WHich is odd, because I felt like Pandaria did story telling the best out of all the expansions.

Well, Heart of Fear directly leads into Terrace. When you kill Empress the Sha of Fear does a yell that says if you want to find him meet him at the Terrace for the final showdown. It is likely he chose the Terrace because the waters there are supposedly magical and it is where the last Pandaren Emperor vanished/sacrificed/whatever himself to shield Pandaria from the Great Sundering, so it serves as a holy ground (so to speak) for the races of Pandaria, hence why 3 of the bosses are guardians of the place, 2 of which we don't even kill we simply cleanse them.

Edit: Oh, and, in the grand scheme of things it plays out like this. The story arc in Kun-Lai about the trolls resurrecting the Thunder King happens shortly before we "go to war" with the Mantid and the Sha. While we're busy with the Sha the Thunder King is likely regenerating his strength/building up his forces/ties with the Zandalari. In 5.1 we are in the aftermath of the Sha/Mantid problem, at this point the Thunder King is probably still prepping for us, and, the focus shifts to the war between the Alliance and the Horde. The Sunreavers and the Kirin Tor go to war with each other after the events of Dalaran, but, at the same time the Shado-Pan decide it's time to deal with the Thunder King.

Then 5.2 rolls around the Kirin Tor and the Sunreavers both go to the island to assist the Shado-Pan against the Thunder King. The Kirin Tor are simply there to put a stop to both the Thunder King and the Sunreavers, but, the Sunreavers are there specifically to find something to give them leverage against Garrosh.
 

Berordn

Member
Raidbots will give you an idea of expected performance, rather than just sim data.

I've never much cared for raidbots either, since their data seems to skew wildly and almost randomly at times. I'm sure it has to do with how it collects data and reflects giant sample sizes for whatever the flavor of the month is, but it rarely agrees with anything else.

At the end of the day, a good player who knows their spec will be competitive with players of similar skill, and that's all you can really go on.
 

Tarazet

Member
They are pretty terrible, especially if you can't get a good weapon. There's a reason they're getting a ~15% boost in 5.3. It was amazing how much more damage I was doing with my Frost DK who was 10 ilevels behind my Ret paladin.

Ret with good gear is pretty awesome, but it's horrible without it. Frost DK's can go into raids in greens and clean up pretty well, provided there is something between the player's ears. The weakest classes I know of right now are Arms Warriors and Balance Druids, and even then, I've seen good players do great numbers with them.
 

Acidote

Member
Enhancement has a really good DPS... as long as you have good weapons. The only thing that dropped in my guild since I had my two garakal is ONE claw of shekzeer that a monk got. I'm stuck with those two garakals since then as nothing else has dropped. Not from the empress or garajal in HM, not from the Council of Elders, not from Dark Animus and not from the twin consorts normal or LFR.

I've passed week after week from being the 1st or 2nd top DPS in my roster to be the last. I'm giving the tortos STR axe a try just from the dps bump even with the loss of stats. And yes, I've used bonus rolls where I had to.
 
Enhancement has a really good DPS... as long as you have good weapons. The only thing that dropped in my guild since I had my two garakal is ONE claw of shekzeer that a monk got. I'm stuck with those two garakals since then as nothing else has dropped. Not from the empress or garajal in HM, not from the Council of Elders, not from Dark Animus and not from the twin consorts normal or LFR.

I've passed week after week from being the 1st or 2nd top DPS in my roster to be the last. I'm giving the tortos STR axe a try just from the dps bump even with the loss of stats. And yes, I've used bonus rolls where I had to.

I don't play nearly as much as you do it sounds like but until this week I was still using a heroic 463 (upgraded to 471) in my OH and the low drop rate 476 fist weapon from Shado-Pan Monastery as my MH. I finally got the claw to drop this week the day after I got my gem so that worked out really well. But my 476 OH is now tied with a few other items for my lowest ilvl gear (both trinkets and boots are also 476). I'd love to get a 502 weapon!

Actually went into ToT normal in a pug group for my first time in and it was absolutely disastrous. A nice group of guys and half of them were familiar with one another and the others were like me, just random puggers. I actually knew two of them from having gone around killing warbringers and running old raids for mount drops just a couple days before. Well, there were a bunch of deaths on the way to the first boss and we only got him down to around 75% after four or five attempts and things split up from there. One of the guys I was familiar with was hitting around 95k dps and I was second with 75-85k dps. After that the next closest was around 45k and it went down from there. It was absolutely terrible. One of the tanks was way undergeared so as soon as the first tank was tossed the second tank would get destroyed almost immediately and then I'd die next as the boss went to the next on the threat charts.

And honestly I felt like I was undergeared going in with 491 ilvl.

Kind of makes me want to get into an actively raiding guild, even as a second 10-man team sort of thing, just so I can play with a group that actually know what to do and perform correctly. They spent at least five minutes discussing the fight before the first pull and myself and the rogue I knew were the only two to stand in the water.

Gets me a bit frustrated.
 

Tarazet

Member
I don't play nearly as much as you do it sounds like but until this week I was still using a heroic 463 (upgraded to 471) in my OH and the low drop rate 476 fist weapon from Shado-Pan Monastery as my MH. I finally got the claw to drop this week the day after I got my gem so that worked out really well. But my 476 OH is now tied with a few other items for my lowest ilvl gear (both trinkets and boots are also 476). I'd love to get a 502 weapon!

Actually went into ToT normal in a pug group for my first time in and it was absolutely disastrous. A nice group of guys and half of them were familiar with one another and the others were like me, just random puggers. I actually knew two of them from having gone around killing warbringers and running old raids for mount drops just a couple days before. Well, there were a bunch of deaths on the way to the first boss and we only got him down to around 75% after four or five attempts and things split up from there. One of the guys I was familiar with was hitting around 95k dps and I was second with 75-85k dps. After that the next closest was around 45k and it went down from there. It was absolutely terrible. One of the tanks was way undergeared so as soon as the first tank was tossed the second tank would get destroyed almost immediately and then I'd die next as the boss went to the next on the threat charts.

And honestly I felt like I was undergeared going in with 491 ilvl.

Kind of makes me want to get into an actively raiding guild, even as a second 10-man team sort of thing, just so I can play with a group that actually know what to do and perform correctly. They spent at least five minutes discussing the fight before the first pull and myself and the rogue I knew were the only two to stand in the water.

Gets me a bit frustrated.

That sounds horrible. A group that bad would struggle on normal Stone Guard, no business even being in Throne of Thunder if there's any question about gear.
 

Clipse

Member
Got my first Oondasta kill yesterday and got the neck off the bonus roll! Great timing since I was almost ready to buy the VP neck.
 
God, leveling is so fast.

I was 20 when I started yesterday, now I'm 39.

It doesn't really stop either. I did 2 zones in Wrath before hitting 80, 1 and 20 quests in another before hitting 85. This was with all available (but not upgraded shoulders/chest) heirlooms.

When I came back I leveled a Warrior to 90 from scratch to avoid paying for a transfer, now I'm doing the same with Warlock.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Yeah, I don't collect many lesser charms any more. I just dislike how long the Isle of Thunder dailies take. Every week, I go find a trove, get my key, run my treasure instance and curse my luck, and that's it on the island. There's always a trove sitting by the docks that nobody ever seems to grab but me, so that's my go-to place.
 

Berordn

Member
Yeah, I don't collect many lesser charms any more. I just dislike how long the Isle of Thunder dailies take. Every week, I go find a trove, get my key, run my treasure instance and curse my luck, and that's it on the island. There's always a trove sitting by the docks that nobody ever seems to grab but me, so that's my go-to place.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that whoever designed 5.1's dailies wasn't behind Isle of Thunder, which is just terrible. Shieldwall and Dominance Offensive were fantastically short and simple and the one-time world quests were much better than the solo scenarios.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
Jesus, the lesser charm change is insane... I now have enough lesser charms to last me until September.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that whoever designed 5.1's dailies wasn't behind Isle of Thunder, which is just terrible. Shieldwall and Dominance Offensive were fantastically short and simple and the one-time world quests were much better than the solo scenarios.

Ok, rant mode about the different hubs.

I like the one time quest structure more simply because they can drag you along for a while. Yeah some of the quests were just simply walking to a NPC and watching a cutscene, but, each few days for the month or so it took to complete the rep you always had something to look forward to.

I think the big problem with the isle is despite the fact that you are supposedly making progress through the isle, weakening the armies, the dailies don't reflect that change. Once we broke down the wall leading into Stage 2 the Mogu/Troll/Saurok hubs should have vanished into dust. There should have been phasing to make it look like we had gone through there and cleaned up, leave only a few straggler NPCs, make the buildings look tattered and destroyed, etc. Each stage should have shifted the focus to the next area with new rotating quests. When we broke into the Zandalari shipyard the quests for that day should have been 5 or 6 quests focusing on purely just stopping the trolls from bringing in new soldiers/supplies.

As for the Scenarios themselves, I thought they were fine on their own there just wasn't enough of them. From a gameplay perspective I actually found them more entertaining than the 5.1 quests. My only problem with them, and this is a fucking huge problem, is the fact that the Alliance and Horde versions are literally exactly the fucking same. Both factions bomb the same wall to break into the stage 2 area, the dialogue between Lor'themar/Taoshi and Jaina/Taoshi is exactly the same in the stage 3 scenario (They say something about being allies with the Shado-pan then Taoshi says they only have a common goal), every little detail is the same. It just feels extremely lazy when you look at the 5.1 stuff where the quests are entirely different and only intersect with one another when they make logical sense.

And with that, I am actually a bit worried about the 5.3 questing stuff. From what we seem to know so far it looks like the "quest campaign" in 5.3 is just a simple quest chain you can knock out in a couple of hours, and, based on the reward list for the Darkspear vendor the only two things I want personally is the Brawler's Guild item and the Pet. I can't see myself going past 2 weeks of doing the weekly quest when there doesn't appear to be an ongoing story line, a rep to max out, a long term item to grind for (like the 5.1 vendor pet or Skyshards for Lotus), or any real hook at all to keep someone going. I hope I am wrong and there is something there on 5.3 live, but from the ptr it looks like a very disappointing questing experience past day 1.
 

Enosh

Member
PTR change: XP needed for 85-90 reduced by 33% <3
leveling a shaman atm, will get it to 85 and then wait for 5.3

and the coin change is very nice, out of them and had to do 3 days of dailies each week
and I would have been really stupid not to do them, I got in total 3 drops from ToT normal, 2 of those from trash, so 1 item of a boss, yet I am almost in full 522 gear.
got 6 items of coins in total so far (well 8, one is for OS and one I vendored^^) but 6 for MS
so yeah that's a pretty huge ilvl difference I would be missing if I didn't do my dailies

also god dammit missing 1 secret from the legendary thingy -.-
 

Tamanon

Banned
Now the only change I want them to make is for Sigils of Power/Wisdom to drop in Throne of Thunder, only if you need them, dammit.
 
I'm at work, so I can't check into this right now, but does anyone know how they're going to deal with "A test of Valor" if you start it before 5.3?

My Shaman needs three more sigils and a Sha kill before she can move on to step 2, which I'll probably have done this week. If that's the case, and I start A Test of Valor, and end up with say, 2500 valor before 5.3, will my quest just change from 2500/6000 to 2500/3000?
 

Berordn

Member
I'm at work, so I can't check into this right now, but does anyone know how they're going to deal with "A test of Valor" if you start it before 5.3?

My Shaman needs three more sigils and a Sha kill before she can move on to step 2, which I'll probably have done this week. If that's the case, and I start A Test of Valor, and end up with say, 2500 valor before 5.3, will my quest just change from 2500/6000 to 2500/3000?

This is historically how they've handled it, but I don't think they've said explicitly. Something to ask on twitter mayhaps.
 

Lanigan

Neo Member
I'm at work, so I can't check into this right now, but does anyone know how they're going to deal with "A test of Valor" if you start it before 5.3?

My Shaman needs three more sigils and a Sha kill before she can move on to step 2, which I'll probably have done this week. If that's the case, and I start A Test of Valor, and end up with say, 2500 valor before 5.3, will my quest just change from 2500/6000 to 2500/3000?
I believe you need to earn the 6000 or 3000 valor while on the quest, so you'd be 0/6000. Don't quote me on that, but if I remember correctly it was this way.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I saw the highlights from the interview with Method from a couple days ago about their Ra-den kill and I'm sort of confused. It says they raided 14-16 hours a day. How is that even possible? For that guild to be consistently on top of the World First lists, they have to have mostly the same core of players for every raid tier, but then all of those players have to be ready to raid 15 hours a day for several weeks in a row at some totally indeterminate time whenever Blizzard releases a patch? Even "professional" WoW players don't make money that resembles real job money. I mean, are they literally just permamently jobless and living at their parents houses?
 
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