NotMyUsername
Member
Which would generally be too difficult to bring along undergeared players. Thus an easier difficulty that wouldn't be as troubled when you're bringing along any number of undergeared players.
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World of Warcraft |OT4| "Why do we keep playing? It is simply in our nature."
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Which would generally be too difficult to bring along undergeared players. Thus an easier difficulty that wouldn't be as troubled when you're bringing along any number of undergeared players.
You can queue as a group for LFR to help them, gear though.
I just don't see why they don't use flex raiding as the standard 'normal mode'.
Flex raiding is just going to add a whole other "Oh I have to run this raid again this week"
Exactly. Something was going to break at some point, either normal modes became much easier akin to wrath or we got a new difficulty. They went with the difficulty.
It just replaces lfr for those guilds; and gearing through LFR does take a while.
I like having four difficulties if they have manpower to support it, which they apparently do.
Since there's apparently a lot of crossover between flexible and LFR, they probably don't see it as much more than LFR as a toggle-able difficulty and extra scaling. Three and a half difficulties at most.
I am expecting something similar. Mechanics will probably be similar to mechanics in LFR but be more deadly. I assume Dark Animus wouldn't be the normal/heroic version of Dark Animus even in flexible (as an example ofc! I don't actually expect them to apply this to MSV/ToT similar to how LFR never applied to BoT/BWD/FL)
Sounds like a pretty interesting idea in concept.
Though that makes me wonder if they'll apply Flex Raiding to some of the older raids (like T14/T15 content; probably not, but it'd be interesting).
And with being able to complete some of the Org Meta in Flex Mode, it makes me think the Meta is probably separated into 2 groups/parts.
The "regular achievements" which get you something, and the second group which would likely be the Heroic achievements and also get you something else.
Then say both completed gives you a mount or something.
Though that makes me wonder if they'll apply Flex Raiding to some of the older raids (like T14/T15 content; probably not, but it'd be interesting).
And with being able to complete some of the Org Meta in Flex Mode, it makes me think the Meta is probably separated into 2 groups/parts.
The "regular achievements" which get you something, and the second group which would likely be the Heroic achievements and also get you something else.
Then say both completed gives you a mount or something.
This actually makes me wonder about the extra rewards stuff they are said.
Mounts, tabards, items, titles? Wonder what all that is about.
Probably things like the mounts and pets in ToT that don't drop in LFR. Since it's an organized group you can reasonably do the achievements too, so it makes sense that the glory achievements would be active... it's certainly sounding interesting.
Maybe, mostly just seems redundant then since they mentioned achievements already.
I think this is a very nice idea.
It's a great way to help keep guilds together while they look to replace their roster, while doing something that's a bit more prestigious than LFR, especially since they are apparently allowing for achieves/meta completion. It probably wouldn't replace a good pug, but that's not necessarily a bad thing and a lot of servers don't have that as a option anyway.
It's a great way to help keep guilds together while they look to replace their roster, while doing something that's a bit more prestigious than LFR, especially since they are apparently allowing for achieves/meta completion. It probably wouldn't replace a good pug, but that's not necessarily a bad thing and a lot of servers don't have that as a option anyway.
I really hope this revives PUG raiding. I'm not a hardcore raider anymore, I just do LFR. I can totally see myself signing up for a random run of this with whatever number of people we can come up with on that particular night.
Also looking forward to seeing what the other new system features we're getting in 5.4. This is apparently one of several (and we can "pick" whichever one we like most to be our own personal "super secret unannounced feature", at least according to GC).
I'm still holding out for scaling 5-mans. I'd love to do some Wrath and TBC dungeons again.
Also looking forward to seeing what the other new system features we're getting in 5.4. This is apparently one of several (and we can "pick" whichever one we like most to be our own personal "super secret unannounced feature", at least according to GC).
I'm still holding out for scaling 5-mans. I'd love to do some Wrath and TBC dungeons again.
Are you on a low-pop server? I see PUGs forming in Trade all the time on my server.
We still don't know the full extent (or any?) of their plan to add alternative ways to gear that don't involve raiding, which they made it pretty clear is a thing that will happen in 5.4. Flex raiding is pretty obviously not that...
On the topic of features, though, I am still really hoping for proving grounds. Their ideas for it sounded ambitious and it would be nice to have a way to test out specs you don't really play in raid/dungeon situations without the risk of fucking over other people.
Wonder how many "features" they actually have planned for the patch.
It's better than that: We've been looking to expand to 25s for a while (on peak times we have about 18 folks around, so a good recruitment drive would get there), but we've been somewhat frustrated by the fact that for a long time we have to recruit people without actually being able to take them into raids after we do. Using flexible raids as the stopgap has a hell of a lot of potential.
I feel the flexible raids would make more sense allowing a couple players below 10. With friend groups, in my experience, we had more trouble coming up with enough like-minded players to fill spots than trouble with difficulty. I find that's the same story with the guild groups I've been involved with also.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I like the idea of flex raids, but I think it may be too late for it to matter much for me; most of my old buddies who I raided with either don't play at all anymore, don't play actively enough to care about raiding, or are playing opposite faction characters.
Yeah this is pretty much going to be the default random pug raid.
True.
A couple other thoughts:
Let's say a 10man raid requires 2 healers and you bring in 11 people, does that now necessitate the need for a 3rd healer? As you get more people when would you require a 4th?
Without seeing the scaling in action you could also just throw 12 people, 2 tanks, 2 healers and 8 DPS and blow through an encounter if there isn't huge parity of the DPS.
Sounds good to me. We always have a surplus of DPS that would love to come with us, and being able to fit them in would be wonderful.
The Lamonster
Member
Maybe it scales based on the roles, i.e. how many healers vs. dps you have.
Doubtful. Taking a healer over an extra DPS should be a tangible sacrifice. If you were to take two tanks and ten healers, I do hope it wouldn't be balanced around the tank's DPS alone
It'll probably roughly model to 1 healer per 3-5 players, and which way that goes would depend somewhat on the RL's understanding of the healer's capabilities.
Doubt it; those would need a lot more work to bring them up to a scalable form. I wouldn't count on T14 or T15 getting it either, but we'll see in that regard.
I don't get anyone who is unhappy with this setup. I think it's obvious that at least normal modes will probably move to this setup if this works well, and that normal is too hard for super casual drunken runs for most people while lfr is too faceroll and too many randoms alongside you. This is perfect, and a fun element the game lost when 10 mans became 'legitimate' in cata, cause 10 mans in BC and wrath were the perfect social 'who gives a fuck' experience.
Blue post from the big thread about flex:
How is this even going to work.
Man I dunno, as someone who did ZA with casuals in nothing but Kara and badge gear that shit was sketchy >_>
How is this even going to work.
Man I dunno, as someone who did ZA with casuals in nothing but Kara and badge gear that shit was sketchy >_>
It was definitely easier than 10 man normals are now. Nobody is asking for LFR level, that already exists, but a setting where you still do things like make assignments and ahve jobs to do, but aren't punished for bringing Bob the Builder, your best friend...that's good.
Also, it works just like it sounds, you can't queue for it, so you're not FORCED into bringing anything, but it's not like you're just making a raid of 0 tanks 2 healers and 12 dps and going to succeed. It's almost assuredly expected that you have 2 tanks, and that you have a proportion of healing that can handle the content. My guess? If it were real raiders you could probably like 3 or 4 heal a 25 man flex raid, but you'll probably just bring whatever you can muster since it's just for funsies.
Oh I don't disagree, I have been saying the same thing in this very thread forever, speaking from straight personal experience. My guild in Cata had to ditch our old one because they were holding us back. 10 man normals just got to hard for them so we made our own guild and was always ranked really high on the server - the people left there never finished BWD even after the nerfs. We just couldn't carry them anymore, hitting enrage timers on Magmaw and Argaloth or dying to other silly "bob the builder" mistakes as it was less forgiving.
They were our friends and it sucked because they felt angry about it (and rightfully so). They still don't even raid today despite the same people we left behind still playing in that guild.
This is mostly what I am curious about. I want to know how they plan to balance it around healers and dps. I imagined at the minimum you would still need 2 tanks but that blue post specifically calling out tanks made me wonder if you could solo tank it or if it would matter if you brought 3 or 4 tanks (not that it would scale accordingly, just that it wouldn't hurt the raid). I don't expect to see a raid with 2 tanks, 13 healers, and 10 dps, but, I am curious what the realistic limits of each role you can bring before it becomes not really feasible to finish the run.
The content is just purely scaling with the number of players, not the numbers of each role, so...the answer is as flexible as the size, good raiders that can do heroics? probably makes 0 difference. How most of these groups will end up? probably the exact same proportions we have now.
Sax Russel
Banned
Grinding out the legendary quest on two characters is really starting to wear on me, but I can't just leave one behind, I love my lock and DK both :< First there's having to do wings you don't even need items from. Then there's the hour long queues. Then the abysmal droprates on the legendary items. Then on the off-chance you're doing a boss you actually need loot from it won't drop, no matter how many streak protected rolls you use. And on top of all that occasionally you just get an awful group.
This message brought to you by:
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Pick up enchanting. At least you'll get Sha Crystals out of it.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I would hope they just straight up give suggestions on composition based on size, e.g. if the group has 14 people, tell them "you will need 2 tanks and probably X healers"
NotMyUsername
Member
As others have said, I think the proportions of roles will remain roughly the same as expected and players with dual-spec for dps/healing will need to be the most flexible as a raid finds out that it's healing or dps isn't high enough so someone needs to make a switch.
As for Blizzard saying that you can pick the roles on your term with healers and tanks I think it's just slightly odd wording that really just means it's like how it is in Normal and Heroic now. You can bring all 10 dps into a raid if you really wanted because you're not forced to have a set number of anything, but you won't get far. That's why the raid leader should plan accordingly. LFR on the other hand has a strict number of each role and you don't get to decide on that.
It's a good plan. Not as.....amazing...I guess as I was led to believe with the hype leading up to it if this is the new feature they were hinting at, but it's one of those things the game really needs once you think about it.
My prior guild needed something like this badly given it was 12-15 good players with 10-13 players whom....weren't the best...but, were nice people.
My prior guild needed something like this badly given it was 12-15 good players with 10-13 players whom....weren't the best...but, were nice people.
Get on that shit. Too many bonuses to not do it. I'd level Fishing just for the Water Strider mount alone. It's so useful in places like IoT.
NotMyUsername
Member
I only max skinning and mining on the few mains I've had over the years. My first main had mining and blacksmithing but I never worked past around 350 in blacksmithing. Every main after that has had skinning and mining while I level to make some extra gold and I never bother changing it afterwards.
Feels good.
Edit: Oh, have maxed fishing, cooking, and first aid. In fact, even have all the different cooking schools mastered as well.
Ayup, more then one person had that anecdotal incident. I believe it was pretty common and when Cata came .... the guilds broke up for that exact reason.
Huzzah, all done!
I used the bone collecting as a way to pass time while listening to podcasts, and finally finished a few minutes ago. Guess I have to find some new activity to do while listening to them. I hope we see another good grind in the future, I enjoyed working towards my mount.
I used the bone collecting as a way to pass time while listening to podcasts, and finally finished a few minutes ago. Guess I have to find some new activity to do while listening to them. I hope we see another good grind in the future, I enjoyed working towards my mount.
I had 600 LW and Skinning on my main, JC and Mining on my alt. Then I dropped Skinning, leveled 1-600 Engineering in about 4 hours and then cried at how much gold I had just blown through.
Congrats! I loved having that long grind against a ton of dangerous mobs available. A lot of people complain about that sort of game design, but it was a nice change of pace from the rest of the overworld's "3 minutes or less" goal-oriented design. This was just "here's you, here's a shitload of dinosaurs that'll mess you up, go nuts".
Yeah, and given the repetitious nature of it all it gave me a pretty good idea of how much better my gear and skill was getting over time. At first I fought every kind of dinosaur, some killed me, others did not. Once I got into the groove I discovered that the Skyscreamers were the fastest way to get bones for me, they dropped 16ish at a time and I found them the most enjoyable to fight because you still had to be aware of what was going on as their breath attack hits for about 180k. So it became a game of dumping all my RP, using AMS to absorb the breath and capping, then just simply dodging the other breaths. On the Alliance side of the island there are 4 Skyscreamers that spawn near each other, at first I would pull them one at a time and by the time I was done with the 4th the first would be spawning again. But by the end my DK's gear was good enough that my route evolved so I would pull 2 Skyscreamers at a time, the next 2, use Army to solo a large Direhorn and then kill baby Devilsaurs until the 2 Skyscreamers respawned.
It was pretty awesome, I hope they make another area like it in the future. My only wish is that they would add a type of mob or two that did very little melee damage but constantly used various amounts of dodge-able attacks that were very dangerous (and no set pattern so you couldn't get into a state of mind where you could get by not paying attention), mostly because as it stands I felt compelled to grind them on my DK because there wasn't ALWAYS people around to group up with, and, unless you have a really solid group it was just faster to get bones solo anyway. Would be nice for squishier DPS classes to have more variety than just killing baby Direhorns, who weren't very interesting to fight anyway and still hit pretty hard with their basic swing.
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