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[Robin64]

Why do I always end up with two idiots saying "first time here" in scenarios and pulling less than 10k dps each? Only for neither of them to get the achievement at the end?

Because Scenarios are the most casual content at 90? Like amazing dps even matters..

 

[Tarazet]

If you're a casual raider, rep pieces can be bis for you, if you're a non-raider, rep pieces ARE bis for you. It's not that the rewards aren't good.

Pretty much. And most people who have LFR pieces (I have 3) are going to wait until they can upgrade them with VP rather than try to replace them with tier pieces.

Along those lines, someone mentioned getting a 489 necklace from Golden Lotus exalted, anyone know what the other reps net you at exalted?

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Pretty much. And most people who have LFR pieces (I have 3) are going to wait until they can upgrade them with VP rather than try to replace them with tier pieces.

Along those lines, someone mentioned getting a 489 necklace from Golden Lotus exalted, anyone know what the other reps net you at exalted?

Exalted Klaxxi gets you a ring.

 

[Tarazet]

Exalted Klaxxi gets you a ring.

Same as the VP piece, or can you equip both?

 

[TheYanger]

Odd, I sent it on Friday night... add me: Entropia#1217

Done

 

[Berordn]

Same as the VP piece, or can you equip both?

They're different items, thankfully.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Same as the VP piece, or can you equip both?

It's different. Here's the end of the quest chain at Klaxxi Exalted, you can see the rewards for yourself.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I have to laugh at all the Brewmaster Monks I see demanding that Breath of Fire proc Shuffle, Guard proc Shuffle and/or every single Chi ability proc Shuffle, as though that would make any sense at all. The entire point of Shuffle is that good tanks have high Shuffle uptime and bad tanks spam Breath of Fire.

 

[Berordn]

I have to laugh at all the Brewmaster Monks I see demanding that Breath of Fire proc Shuffle, Guard proc Shuffle and/or every single Chi ability proc Shuffle, as though that would make any sense at all.

Admittedly, breathing fire is more interesting than kicking a guy.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If you're a casual raider, rep pieces can be bis for you, if you're a non-raider, rep pieces ARE bis for you. It's not that the rewards aren't good.

Casual raiders often don't give a shit about BiS. It takes 40 days to grind out August Celestials to Exalted and on top of that, because the design is opposite of Golden Lotus, you will never cap out on VP doing them. What I'm seeing is the opposite - more hardcore players are bothering to grind out reps and less hardcore players are just refusing to do them because the rep grinds are too long to be any fun.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

The entire point is that casual raiders often don't give a shit about BiS. It takes 40 days to grind out August Celestials to Exalted and on top of that, because the design is opposite of Golden Lotus, you will never cap out on VP doing them.

What?

Of course they care about getting the best gear available to them, and VP is not anywhere near as hard to cap out as you make it seem.

 

[Angry Grimace]

What?

Of course they care about getting the best gear available to them, and VP is not anywhere near as hard to cap out as you make it seem.

Doing a full clear of MSV plus 7 heroics a week and both LFR segments doesn't even get you 3/4 of the cap for a week. You have to add 59 other dailies on top of those to get to cap.

My experience is that unless you are religious about playing the game you aren't going to cap out. I had to do all of the GL/Klaxxi dailies virtually every day plus running random Heroics for 60 VP each many times to even get to Valor of the Ancients twice. How many dailies are you doing per day - doing AC dailies by themselves and even AC + Shadopan isn't getting me much VP at all.

 

[TheYanger]

Casual raiders often don't give a shit about BiS. It takes 40 days to grind out August Celestials to Exalted and on top of that, because the design is opposite of Golden Lotus, you will never cap out on VP doing them. What I'm seeing is the opposite - more hardcore players are bothering to grind out reps and less hardcore players are just refusing to do them because the rep grinds are too long to be any fun.

I'm not arguing that they are or aren't doing them, just that the rewards aren't there - they are.

 

[JCizzle]

I have to laugh at all the Brewmaster Monks I see demanding that Breath of Fire proc Shuffle, Guard proc Shuffle and/or every single Chi ability proc Shuffle, as though that would make any sense at all. The entire point of Shuffle is that good tanks have high Shuffle uptime and bad tanks spam Breath of Fire.

The way I see it, Brewmasters have a better system since BoF DOESN'T proc shuffle. With warriors, you really shouldn't spend rage on anything other than mitigation since cleave/HS suck so much. A least with Brewmasters you have the option of spending chi/GCD on mitigation (shuffle abilities) and DPS (BoF). Much more compelling to have the choice IMO.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm not arguing that they are or aren't doing them, just that the rewards aren't there - they are.

Well, I wasn't saying the rewards aren't there, I'm more trying (perhaps in a unclear fashion) to point out that I think VP gains have been nerfed down to outright requiring you to do them beyond the actual rep requirement itself, which makes them less enticing to go after.

The way I see it, Brewmasters have a better system since BoF DOESN'T proc shuffle. With warriors, you really shouldn't spend rage on anything other than mitigation since cleave/HS suck so much. A least with Brewmasters you have the option of spending chi/GCD on mitigation (shuffle abilities) and DPS (BoF). Much more compelling to have the choice IMO.

Shuffle isn't even that hard to keep up - you just don't spend your chi on Breath of Fire ever if you're in danger of dying without shuffle. I don't get why people are so hot to trot to use BoF beyond the fact it does a lot of damage; it just strikes me as a silly question akin to asking why Death Strike has a rune cost or something.

 

[TheYanger]

Well, I wasn't saying the rewards aren't there, I'm more trying (perhaps in a unclear fashion) to point out that I think VP gains have been nerfed down to outright requiring you to do them beyond the actual rep requirement itself, which makes them less enticing to go after.



Shuffle isn't even that hard to keep up - you just don't spend your chi on Breath of Fire ever if you're in danger of dying without shuffle. I don't get why people are so hot to trot to use BoF beyond the fact it does a lot of damage; it just strikes me as a silly question akin to asking why Death Strike has a rune cost or something.

Active Mitigation is and opportunity cost of survivability vs damage are foreign concepts to non-DK tanks. We just have to smile and nod and tell them they're bad until they get it (Though I will admit, at least Death Strike does a lot of damage).

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Doing a full clear of MSV plus 7 heroics a week and both LFR segments doesn't even get you 3/4 of the cap for a week. You have to add 59 other dailies on top of those to get to cap.

My experience is that unless you are religious about playing the game you aren't going to cap out. I had to do all of the GL/Klaxxi dailies virtually every day plus running random Heroics for 60 VP each many times to even get to Valor of the Ancients twice. How many dailies are you doing per day - doing AC dailies by themselves and even AC + Shadopan isn't getting me much VP at all.

You can get 25 dailies/day done and only need to do 3 random heroics or 1 LFR clear on the weekends. Not a very high barrier for the 'casual raider.'

 

[Angry Grimace]

You can get 25 dailies/day done and only need to do 3 random heroics or 1 LFR clear on the weekends. Not a very high barrier for the 'casual raider.'

25 dailies a day is outrageous - 3 months ago that was literally the maximum amount you could even do in a single day. It takes something like 90 minutes or so to do 25 dailies. I'm not saying there aren't enough ways to cap, I'm saying they all take a ridiculous amount of time to do; its even more egregious considering the items are already locked behind a daily grind in the first place.

 

[Lucis]

You can get 25 dailies/day done and only need to do 3 random heroics or 1 LFR clear on the weekends. Not a very high barrier for the 'casual raider.'

Golden Lotus at honored = 5 + 4 + 1, revered = 5 + 4 + 4 + 1/2, which is 10h 14/15r
Klaxii is 6+1? (I stopped Klaxii) = 7
Cloud Serpent is 3
Farmers united is 6
Shado is 5h
August Celestial = 4f

Right now if I want to do everythign it's 14+7+3+6+5+4 = 39 dailies, which will take 2 hours.

Bug, overall, those would have capped my VP in 5 days with out even doing 1 heroic.

Say i get 180 from LFR, that would only require 820 from dailies,
820/5 = 164, 164/7 = 23.5

Remove Klaxii, cloud serpent, which will bring my daily to 29, (gives the rest dailies about a total of 1 hour 15mish), I can cap VP with out stepping into dungeon, I think i am going to rotate between Klaxii and GL at this point. So... it's really not that bad

Say you actually like heroics dungeon when you get absolutely nothing from it, you can still do one a day, that would be 420 on top, which bring your daily need to only 400 a week, that's 80 dailies, that's TWO DAYS worth only.

 

[TheYanger]

25 dailies a day is outrageous - 3 months ago that was literally the maximum amount you could even do in a single day. It takes something like 90 minutes or so to do 25 dailies. I'm not saying there aren't enough ways to cap, I'm saying they all take a ridiculous amount of time to do; its even more egregious considering the items are already locked behind a daily grind in the first place.

The problem isn't how long it takes to do ALL the dailies, you just choose to only do one set at a time and you've got daily content for probably the entire expansion - which is clearly the intent. The problem is so many players are entitled and feel like it's an all or none proposition: "I don't have time to do all these dailies" and instead they do none. The correct answer is to say "I want that neck" and spend 15-30 minutes doing the dailies for the neck.

Keep in mind the VAST majority of the reward comes at revered, which is only a week or so per rep of doing all the dailies. I've stopped every single one except for cloud serpents at revered already, simply waiting for the double rep at revered patch.

The playerbase needs to learn to pace itself, rather than claim "I CANT DO THIS" and sit around complaining about nothing to do.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

25 dailies a day is outrageous.

It took me 2 hours a day to do a full circuit of Golden Lotus at Revered + Klaxxi, Anglers, Tillers, Shadowpan and August Celestials. That's way more than 25 dailies. Tedious? Yes. Outrageous? Not really. I'll have to time myself on my new route, but I estimate 90 minutes, tops. I'm not saying this is the best way Blizzard could have designed the VP grind. I agree that hardcore addictsplayers have little use for VP until the gear enhancement options become available, but it's not exceedingly hostile to players up and down the 'casual' spectrum.

Klaxii is 6+1? (I stopped Klaxii) = 7
Cloud Serpent is 3

I piled the profession dailies on there, bringing my Cloud Serpent dailies to six. I admit it wasn't fun burning through cloth or doing archaeology digging in remote zones, which is why I dropped Cloud Serpent entirely once I hit Exalted.
Klaxxi dailies, on the other hand, are extremely fast compared to other factions. Skip the Giant Bug Ride (kill 200 bugs) because it's slow and pick your optimal Enhancement (Raining Blood is godlike on rogue) and you melt through those dailies in 15 minutes, tops.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The problem isn't how long it takes to do ALL the dailies, you just choose to only do one set at a time and you've got daily content for probably the entire expansion - which is clearly the intent. The problem is so many players are entitled and feel like it's an all or none proposition: "I don't have time to do all these dailies" and instead they do none. The correct answer is to say "I want that neck" and spend 15-30 minutes doing the dailies for the neck.

Keep in mind the VAST majority of the reward comes at revered, which is only a week or so per rep of doing all the dailies. I've stopped every single one except for cloud serpents at revered already, simply waiting for the double rep at revered patch.

The playerbase needs to learn to pace itself, rather than claim "I CANT DO THIS" and sit around complaining about nothing to do.

Let's not play the "entitlement" thing again.

The problem is that it doesn't take 15-30 minutes to do the dailies for the neck, it takes like 90 minutes. Add in the amount of time people are playing where they are actually raiding, which is like 6 hours a week even for casual raiders. (we're talking about casual raiders, not non-raiders)

It took me 2 hours a day to do a full circuit of Golden Lotus at Revered + Klaxxi, Anglers, Tillers, Shadowpan and August Celestials. That's way more than 25 dailies. Tedious? Yes. Outrageous? Not really. I'll have to time myself on my new route, but I estimate 90 minutes, tops. I'm not saying this is the best way Blizzard could have designed the VP grind. I agree that hardcore addictsplayers have little use for VP until the gear enhancement options become available, but it's not exceedingly hostile to players up and down the 'casual' spectrum.

Sure, except as I said, casual raiders also are spending 6 hours a week raiding.

 

[TheYanger]

Let's not play the "entitlement" thing again.

The problem is that it doesn't take 15-30 minutes to do the dailies for the neck, it takes like 90 minutes. Add in the amount of time people are playing where they are actually raiding, which is like 6 hours a week even for casual raiders. (we're talking about casual raiders, not non-raiders)



Sure, except as I said, casual raiders also are spending 6 hours a week raiding.

I do less than 20 minutes of dailies per day. (Caveat: I obviously did more the first week, but you can just NOT do all of the reps at once like I was doing to begin with)
This is my rep pane

I'm completely positive they only take that long too, since I'm using the wickerman buff and can clearly see the duration it has.

If you opt to do a single rep at a time, you will finish that rep at least to revered in like, a week and a half tops depending on the rep, and it will NOT take more than 30 minutes per day. I don't see how anyone can complain about it legitimately (I HATE dailies, and I bitch about them, but even I recognize that it's plenty of content and I make myself do more than I need to. Which is why I stopped doing half of them).

As you can see, I'm literally two quests away from being 'done' with Shado Pan if I choose, and only about a week away from being done with August Celestials. A rep that has 4 dailies that typically take less than 10 minutes total. This is in less than a month of the expansion being out, so why can't a casual player be happy that they have 6 months worth of content if they spread it out?
Imagine if you did one rep worth of dailies per day, to get revered it's a total of like:
2 weeks Klaxxi
2 weeks Anglers
4 or 5 days Cloud Serpents
2 weeks Golden Lotus
a week and a half Shado Pan
2 weeks August Celestials
2 weeks tillers

It's a grand total of like 2.5-3 months worth of content to get revered with everything, the realistic 'end' from the gearing perspective, and that's if you do literally ONE set of dailies per day. The only set that is time consuming is Golden Lotus, which is more to do with mob health values than anything else.

 

[Rösti]

Hmm, I'll get Stonetoe Spaulders (don't mind the image, Blizzard's site is riddled with bugs and inaccuracies) on Wednesday. Current BiS (below heroic Mogu'Shan Vaults and tier 14) for arms warriors. Nothing special, but still a nice set.

Also, I'm nearly exalted with Golden Lotus. No greater rewards at exalted except for the mounts, but I want to do the final quest in the chain.

Yesterday, I participated in a guild run (other than my own guild) for Mogu'Shan Vaults. I've done Feng the Accursed and Gara'jal the Spiritbinder on normal, and those I did not find too difficult. Stone Guard, which we didn't get past, wasn't that difficult either, but some people had rather bad gear and often there was confusion and delay. Not that it matters though, for the peeps in that guild were very nice and friendly, and the conversations over Ventrilo made going there and defeating no boss at all still a nice experience.

 

[Lucis]

Let's not play the "entitlement" thing again.

The problem is that it doesn't take 15-30 minutes to do the dailies for the neck, it takes like 90 minutes. Add in the amount of time people are playing where they are actually raiding, which is like 6 hours a week even for casual raiders. (we're talking about casual raiders, not non-raiders)



Sure, except as I said, casual raiders also are spending 6 hours a week raiding.

This is a MMO, it takes time, it already takes WAY LESS time than before, maybe not the immediate before (DS)

Also you do not need any of those reward to progress, normal MSV is easy with 470, the only hard part is finding 9 other competent people to do it with. Why do I not hear more complaint about that?

That's right, the hardest part of wow is actually to find the exact like minded/skilled people you are willing (and they are willing) to play with at the RIGHT TIME.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I do less than 20 minutes of dailies per day. (Caveat: I obviously did more the first week, but you can just NOT do all of the reps at once like I was doing to begin with)
This is my rep pane

I'm completely positive they only take that long too, since I'm using the wickerman buff and can clearly see the duration it has.

Sure, except they already nerfed August Celestials from double rep and only did it a week ago, you start half fairly close to Revered with Klaxxi in the first place and Golden Lotus gates both AC and Shado-pan and takes significantly longer per day than either of those two. Moreover, we're talking about VP, not rep gains.

This is a MMO, it takes time, it already takes WAY LESS time than before, maybe not the immediate before (DS)

Also you do not need any of those reward to progress, normal MSV is easy with 470, the only hard part is finding 9 other competent people to do it with. Why do I not hear more complaint about that?

That's right, the hardest part of wow is actually to find the exact like minded/skilled people you are willing (and they are willing) to play with at the RIGHT TIME.

Most of this is neither here nor there. "This is an MMO" isn't really a valid excuse for something not being fun. I'm talking about VP gains, not how hard MSV is. Besides, VP gear is already gated in multiple ways; i.e. you can only get 1000 per week and every single item costs more than a 1000.

 

[TheYanger]

Sure, except they already nerfed August Celestials from double rep and only did it a week ago, you start half fairly close to Revered with Klaxxi in the first place and Golden Lotus gates both AC and Shado-pan and takes significantly longer per day than either of those two. Moreover, we're talking about VP, not rep gains.

Most of this is neither here nor there. "This is an MMO" isn't really a valid excuse for something not being fun. I'm talking about VP gains, not how hard MSV is. Besides, VP gear is already gated in multiple ways; i.e. you can only get 1000 per week and every single item costs more than a 1000.

You're talking about VP, in relation to having to get rep to spend it. That's the same thing I'm talking about (Revered). Heck, you can spend it at honored, whcih literally happens BEFORE you do dailies with half the reps. Anyone that hasn't found thigns to spend valor on is simply not trying. I have no pity for that.

 

[Lucis]

Most of this is neither here nor there. "This is an MMO" isn't really a valid excuse for something not being fun. I'm talking about VP gains, not how hard MSV is. Besides, VP gear is already gated in multiple ways; i.e. you can only get 1000 per week and every single item costs more than a 1000.

of course it matters, the gear is to further the progression of PVE and to make up certain skill deficiencies. also, you don't need to get everything every week if you are "casual", 500vp a week with half of the dailiy progression, what does it mean? It only means it will take you 2x longer to get there as someone who caps every week. For a casual raider who isn't progression that fast anyways in raid, its' not a big deal, or is it? sense of entitlement

 

[Angry Grimace]

of course it matters, the gear is to further the progression of PVE and to make up certain skill deficiencies. also, you don't need to get everything every week if you are "casual", 500vp a week with half of the dailiy progression, what does it mean? It only means it will take you 2x longer to get there as someone who caps every week. For a casual raider who isn't progression that fast anyways in raid, its' not a big deal, or is it? sense of entitlement

"Sense of entitlement" is a completely meaningless pejorative that people use to denigrate other players without any real argument. What are you even talking about? You're inventing a weird casual vs. hardcore dichotomy that doesn't exist in this discussion - raid bosses aren't providing enough VP either. I don't think hardcore raiders should have to do anything to cap VP outside of running raids; even if you do all 16 raid bosses, you're only getting 400 VP a week from it.

 

[Rokal]

Shuffle isn't even that hard to keep up - you just don't spend your chi on Breath of Fire ever if you're in danger of dying without shuffle. I don't get why people are so hot to trot to use BoF beyond the fact it does a lot of damage; it just strikes me as a silly question akin to asking why Death Strike has a rune cost or something.

There are plenty of opportunities to use BoF safely, especially if you take leg sweep. That 5 second stun is enough time to generate another 2 chi for BoK or Guard. I use BoF 1-2 times for every pull in 5 mans but it doesn't require that I put myself in danger. 5 mans just don't pump out enough damage to require much use of purifying brew, you will have spare chi.

The stun doesn't work in raids or on most bosses, but neither does BoF since bosses and raid mobs are usually immune to slows (the debuff from dizzying haze that BoF ignites from). I don't see where the argument is coming from unless people are trying to spam BoF while the DoT is already ticking.

 

[Angry Grimace]

There are plenty of opportunities to use BoF safely, especially if you take leg sweep. That 5 second stun is enough time to generate another 2 chi for BoK or Guard. I use BoF 1-2 times for every pull in 5 mans but it doesn't require that I put myself in danger. 5 mans just don't pump out enough damage to require much use of purifying brew, you will have spare chi.

The stun doesn't work in raids or on most bosses, but neither does BoF since bosses and raid mobs are usually immune to slows (the debuff from dizzying haze that BoF ignites from). I don't see where the argument is coming from unless people are trying to spam BoF while the DoT is already ticking.

That's why it doesn't make any sense. You don't have some pressing need to cast Breath of Fire, so I'm not understanding why there's some movement to trivialize shuffle. I even saw a guy asking for guard and Purifying Brew to give shuffle.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

There's nothing wrong with VP rates. Lol.

If you did lfr, 1 heroic a day, and one scenario a day you're at 810/1000 vp.

Pretty sure that was common last expansion, excluding scenarios, which are quick.

To reach the cap you need to do 38 dailies a week, or more lfr, or more heroics, or challenge modes.

Lots of options.

The problem is rep rates locking you out of vp gear... Which are being fixed?

 

[Angry Grimace]

There's nothing wrong with VP rates. Lol.

If you did lfr, 1 heroic a day, and one scenario a day you're at 810/1000 vp.

Pretty sure that was common last expansion, excluding scenarios, which are quick.

To reach the cap you need to do 38 dailies a week, or more lfr, or more heroics.

The problem is rep rates... Which are being fixed?

Doing all of those is actually 765. You don't need rep over Revered, so the '"fix" isn't really relevant. You can't gain extra VP through more heroics. Scenarios aren't really all that quick at all - you could easily obtain an equivalent amount of VP in the same amount of time and also get rep for them. The problem is that its that much more effort to cap now than it was last expansion, but the prices of items is exactly the same. I think raid bosses and heroics should provide more VP in general; they don't need to go up to like 150 like Dragon Soul era, but 60 is pretty slim for a random heroic, particularly given that they're already a AoE-fest slog.

Obviously you guys and I aren't going to agree on this so we'll just leave it where it is.

 

[TheYanger]

That's why it doesn't make any sense. You don't have some pressing need to cast Breath of Fire, so I'm not understanding why there's some movement to trivialize shuffle. I even saw a guy asking for guard and Purifying Brew to give shuffle.

People are dumb. Not much else to it! Making choices is difficult.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Doing all of those is actually 765. You don't need rep over Revered, so the '"fix" isn't really relevant.

Uh its kind of relevant to me. I'm locked out of gear. I'm forced to buy from x faction because of golden lotus.

If you don't want to do dailies for vp do other stuff. Lots of options.

Getting valor capped from lfr and normal is dumb. That's less content to encourage people to do. People wanted more content?

 

[eudaemonic]

I think I'm gonna need to limit the amount of dailies I do to maybe two factions per day. Otherwise, I get lost in them and I won't finish Steppes and Waste.

 

[Angry Grimace]

People are dumb. Not much else to it! Making choices is difficult.

I like where they're going with Monk tanking, actually. They only take a lot more damage than other tanks if the player doesn't understand what he's doing.

Uh its kind of relevant to me. I'm locked out of gear. I'm forced to buy from x faction because of golden lotus.

If you don't want to do dailies for vp do other stuff. Lots of options.

Getting valor capped from lfr and normal is dumb. That's less content to encourage people to do. People wanted more content?

No, you're not understanding. The fix you're talking about only applies to rep gains over Revered and for alts. You won't get to Revered any faster on your main than you are right now.

 

[Sarcasm]

So nobody uses wow in steam?

 

[Fularu]

Because Scenarios are the most casual content at 90? Like amazing dps even matters..

It does when I do 90% of the damage and I die 3 times because I'm prety much soloing the thing

 

[Berordn]

So nobody uses wow in steam?

The launcher and executable are built in such a way that the overlay won't work without a bit of tinkering, and Blizzard frowns on that. It doesn't seem to be intentionally blocking it, but the hooks just don't exist in the way that Steam expects them to.

edit: I got curious and just added WoW-64.exe to Steam directly and it works. Must've fixed it in 5.0 or something.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It does when I do 90% of the damage and I die 3 times because I'm prety much soloing the thing

I'm still perplexed why Scenarios are only a thing at level 90. They seemed like a great way to do end of storyline "epic" instanced stuff.

Uh its kind of relevant to me. I'm locked out of gear. I'm forced to buy from x faction because of golden lotus.

If you don't want to do dailies for vp do other stuff. Lots of options.

Getting valor capped from lfr and normal is dumb. That's less content to encourage people to do. People wanted more content?

You honestly believe people wanted more dailies to do?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I like where they're going with Monk tanking, actually. They only take a lot more damage than other tanks if the player doesn't understand what he's doing.



No, you're not understanding. The fix you're talking about only applies to rep gains over Revered and for alts. You won't get to Revered any faster on your main than you are right now.

Then we're forced to get valor capped while unlocking all the gear.

After revered you want to be valor capped from only lfr and raid? Is there even going to be stuff you need to buy left?

Again they want raiders to do other stuff but raid. There was a complaint of no content outside of raiding. Challenge modes seem popular for many.

 

[Lucis]

"Sense of entitlement" is a completely meaningless pejorative that people use to denigrate other players without any real argument. What are you even talking about? You're inventing a weird casual vs. hardcore dichotomy that doesn't exist in this discussion - raid bosses aren't providing enough VP either. I don't think hardcore raiders should have to do anything to cap VP outside of running raids; even if you do all 16 raid bosses, you're only getting 400 VP a week from it.

I don't see why it's pejorative, I am casual, I just understand it takes a bit time to get some thing.
There's nothing written there that you will cap VP if you clear current tier raid. Any hardcore raider will have time to do VP stuff, it really doesn't take that long. As for casual raider, unless you absolutely do not want to play wow outside of the 6 hours of raiding, this won't be a problem either. Unless of course, sense of entitlement

 

[Angry Grimace]

Then we're forced to get valor capped while unlocking all the gear.

After revered you want to be valor capped from only lfr and raid? Is there even going to be stuff you need to buy left?

Again they want raiders to do other stuff but raid. There was a complaint of no content outside of raiding. Challenge modes seem popular for many.

No, you'll only cap Valor once getting Klaxxi and Lotus to Revered. After that, Shado-pan and A/C only offer 4 and 5 quests per day that just give more rep than GL does but the same amount of Valor.

I don't see why it's pejorative, I am casual, I just understand it takes a bit time to get some thing.
There's nothing written there that you will cap VP if you clear current tier raid. Any hardcore raider will have time to do VP stuff, it really doesn't take that long. As for casual raider, unless you absolutely do not want to play wow outside of the 6 hours of raiding, this won't be a problem either. Unless of course, sense of entitlement

I have no idea what you're even talking about. Who is talking about something written anywhere? Its my opinion. You're not explaining in the least what you think entitlement has to do with anything other than just appending to the end of your posts.

 

[Lucis]

No, you'll only cap Valor once getting Klaxxi and Lotus to Revered. After that, Shado-pan and A/C only offer 4 and 5 quests per day that just give more rep than GL does but the same amount of Valor.

I have no idea what you're even talking about. Who is talking about something written anywhere? Its my opinion. You're not explaining in the least what you think entitlement has to do with anything other than just appending to the end of your posts.

Entitled to VP related rewards with out wanting to do the current VP related content?

Getting them to revered does not stop you from doing the daily, doing the GL daily give you chance at skyshard, which will give you a chance at an awesome cloud serpent.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Pretty much a total WoW noob but here is my toon so far after 4 days of playing. Not sure if good or not
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/Plbelanger/simple

 

[TheYanger]

I like where they're going with Monk tanking, actually. They only take a lot more damage than other tanks if the player doesn't understand what he's doing.

Completely agree. DK tanks have been the most fun for YEARS because of how they worked, other tanks should be glad that they're getting this type of playstyle, and it works better for monks than the other three because it was designed this way from the ground up. I think monk tanks are awesome.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Pretty much a total WoW noob but here is my toon so far after 4 days of playing. Not sure if good or not
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/Plbelanger/simple

You're level 70, it barely matters what your gear or talent selections are unless you're struggling to do something very specific (level-capped pvp, tanking 5-mans, etc), questions we're happy to

Spoiler

attempt to

answer here. 70 in 4 days of playing means you're all-in, having endured the Outlands grind, so grats there.

 

[Lucis]

You're level 70, it barely matters what your gear or talent selections are unless you're struggling to do something very specific (level-capped pvp, tanking 5-mans, etc), questions we're happy to

Spoiler

attempt to

answer here. 70 in 4 days of playing means you're all-in, having endured the Outlands grind, so grats there.

What outland grind? You level so fast now that you don't even realize you are there, or you can just dungeon queue from sw and not step foot in outland even once.

 

[fluffydelusions]

You're level 70, it barely matters what your gear or talent selections are unless you're struggling to do something very specific (level-capped pvp, tanking 5-mans, etc), questions we're happy to

Spoiler

attempt to

answer here. 70 in 4 days of playing means you're all-in, having endured the Outlands grind, so grats there.

Yeah I'm not having any difficulty and yep, all that outlands, hellfire etc I hated...all so greyish and bleh looking. Got to near lvl 68 and went to northrend, did a dungeon, and started questing up there. Nice change of scenery