Support NeoGAF

[Angry Grimace]

Entitled to VP related rewards with out wanting to do the current VP related content?

Getting them to revered does not stop you from doing the daily, doing the GL daily give you chance at skyshard, which will give you a chance at an awesome cloud serpent.

I fail to see how anything I'm saying has anything to do with entitlement. My point is that the current VP related content gives rewards at a pace that is too slow to be compelling. My point is that I don't think its good gameplay, or fun.

Completely agree. DK tanks have been the most fun for YEARS because of how they worked, other tanks should be glad that they're getting this type of playstyle, and it works better for monks than the other three because it was designed this way from the ground up. I think monk tanks are awesome.

The thing I really like in an unreasonable way is how you play Pac-Man with the invisible balls. Mostly because I find it really appropriate that the guy who tanks drunk has to pick up invisible healing balls that only he can see.

 

[fluffydelusions]

What outland grind? You level so fast now that you don't even realize you are there, or you can just dungeon queue from sw and not step foot in outland even once.

I think he is referring to the greyish/bland environments for that area which I tend to agree. It makes it feel like it's being dragged out IMO.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

What outland grind? You level so fast now that you don't even realize you are there, or you can just dungeon queue from sw and not step foot in outland even once.

The exp grind through Cata/Wrath/Panda zones is about as optimized as possible and although they've again reduced the 60-68 exp required it doesn't change how awful the experience of Hellfire/Zangarmarsh are by comparison.

 

[Lucis]

I fail to see how anything I'm saying has anything to do with entitlement. My point is that the current VP related content gives rewards at a pace that is too slow to be compelling. My point is that I don't think its good gameplay, or fun.

It doesn't give reward at a pace that's too slow to be compeling, the time it takes does not significantly exceed (or even exceed) what previous expansions did for VP capping, the reward is top tier gear. It might not what YOU want to do to cap VP, it might not be "fun" for you. But I find it pretty fun and it can mostly be soloed.

Remind you, I used to be a top raider, (server first Sunwell, server first early wotlk). When life takes a turn I can still find fun in wow even though I can no longer commit to any type of set raid schedule, no matter how casual they are. So I know the story of both sides.

You want those reward to be exactly how you want to play, which doesn't work out some times. The rep ties to some other awesome rewards (story line/mounts), but of course you dont' count those.

 

[Lucis]

The exp grind through Cata/Wrath/Panda zones is about as optimized as possible and although they've again reduced the 60-68 exp required it doesn't change how awful the experience of Hellfire/Zangarmarsh are by comparison.

I leveled my hunter to 85 in DS time, didn't step outside of stormwind once after i hit about 20. Until about 75.

Also unless they changed outland/northernd quest by reducing tons of them, you will probably hit 64/74 before leaving hellfire/borean lol

 

[Rösti]

I posted this on the European World of Warcraft general forum, thought I could share it here as well:

Patch 3.1 and 3.2, Secrets of Ulduar and Call of the Crusade respectively, introduced The Argent Tournament, Crusaders' Coliseum and the Trial of the Champion/Crusader instances, to name a few things. Some people liked the idea of a tournament-esque patch, some didn't. I personally think it was an excellent way to set the mood for the imminent clash against The Lich King and his minions. Of course, the way it was distributed we can probably all join together in saying it could have been better...

Anyhow, I came to think about Call of the Crusade when wondering about the Siege of Orgrimmar and how that is going to be played out. Not much has been said about that event, except for that Garrosh has been doing some really nasty things beneath Orgrimmar, but I think it's safe to say that the Alliance and Horde troops aren't just going to rush into the city and expect to faceroll the warchief without little resistance. No, training is gonna be needed, and why not have it in form of a tournament?

You'll of course have to view such a thing in a bit different light than the tournament we saw in northeastern Icecrown, for now the main antagonist wouldn't be Arthas but Garrosh. And that's a bit different, despite his blood lust and hunger for power, for he's at least allied with the Horde. That may change once his true character is shown and that an attack on the city is inevitable, but even then there ought to be some mixed feelings among those that are rallying against him. This in comparison to what mainly would be hate and loathing against the Lich King.

To round all this up, what would you say if Blizzard introduced some kind of tournament connected to the Siege of Orgrimmar? Be it a grand sanctuary located by Crossroads in Northern Barrens, with some heroic dungeons, a raid instance, an arena and loads of quests. The relation between Alliance and Horde will undoubtedly change following the attack on Orgrimmar. In what ways we can only speculate of, but if we are to believe that the two factions will join forces for a combined effort to end Garrosh's corrupted rule, wouldn't mutual preparations, hence a tournament, strengthen the two camps?

Another "Argent" Tournament, Yay or Nay?

Any US player, feel free to post this on the US forums, would be nice to see what people think there about it.

 

[Rokal]

Completely agree. DK tanks have been the most fun for YEARS because of how they worked, other tanks should be glad that they're getting this type of playstyle, and it works better for monks than the other three because it was designed this way from the ground up. I think monk tanks are awesome.

I love how they play but I am concerned they will be watered down due to the community. Brewmaster currently is like a juggling act where you are constantly asking yourself "what should I spend chi on next?" Having BoF, Guard, or Purifying brew grant shuffle would immediately make the class less interesting/fun to play. These are the types of requests I imagine we will see more of as more people get monks to 90.

Tanking was already an unpopular role without tanks being hard to play. If Blizzard sees more people migrate away from tanking specs, they may decide to make the specs more forgiving (and therefore less interesting). It's possible that tanks will actually see more popularity in MoP now that they are fun to play, and now that gear progression has a more visible impact on tanks, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Neki]

feels so good when people in LFR actually listen to explanation on bosses,

only one wipe on elegon

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I leveled my hunter to 85 in DS time, didn't step outside of stormwind once after i hit about 20. Until about 75.

Also unless they changed outland/northernd quest by reducing tons of them, you will probably hit 64/74 before leaving hellfire/borean lol

None of this changes how bad the outland zones are for questing by comparison.

You would also need significant amounts of rested exp bonus/heirlooms/guild perks in order to reach all the way to 64 even if you did every single quest that Hellfire had to offer + both dungeons. 2/3 of your exp from 60-64 would have to come from pure mob kills.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I love how they play but I am concerned they will be watered down due to the community. Brewmaster currently is like a juggling act where you are constantly asking yourself "what should I spend chi on next?" Having BoF, Guard, or Purifying brew grant shuffle would immediately make the class less interesting/fun to play. These are the types of requests I imagine we will see more of as more people get monks to 90.

Tanking was already an unpopular role without tanks being hard to play. If Blizzard sees more people migrate away from tanking specs, they may decide to make the specs more forgiving (and therefore less interesting). It's possible that tanks will actually see more popularity in MoP now that they are fun to play, and now that gear progression has a more visible impact on tanks, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The only one I could possibly see is adding Shuffle to Breath of Fire and BOF getting a serious damage nerf/significant cooldown. I don't even think that should happen, either. (This won't happen either since Rushing Jade Wind does exactly this)

None of this changes how bad the outland zones are for questing by comparison.

You would also need significant amounts of rested exp bonus/heirlooms/guild perks in order to reach all the way to 64 even if you did every single quest that Hellfire had to offer + both dungeons. 2/3 of your exp from 60-64 would have to come from pure mob kills.

I didn't do anything but Hellfire and Nagrand last week, but I cheated by using a 300% XP potion and tanking a lot to get fast queues.

 

[Neki]

dk tanks are fun because I don't need a healer yaaaaaaaaay

 

[B-Dubs]

I love how they play but I am concerned they will be watered down due to the community. Brewmaster currently is like a juggling act where you are constantly asking yourself "what should I spend chi on next?" Having BoF, Guard, or Purifying brew grant shuffle would immediately make the class less interesting/fun to play. These are the types of requests I imagine we will see more of as more people get monks to 90.

Tanking was already an unpopular role without tanks being hard to play. If Blizzard sees more people migrate away from tanking specs, they may decide to make the specs more forgiving (and therefore less interesting). It's possible that tanks will actually see more popularity in MoP now that they are fun to play, and now that gear progression has a more visible impact on tanks, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

People will try them and quit when everyone starts to complain. I already see it happening with a guy I know, he keeps complaining about how monks can't tank for shit and everyone but DK's suck at tanking. I just roll my eyes and move on.

Also they don't need to add shuffle to breath of fire, you can just swap rushing jade wind out for it if you have trouble keeping it up.

 

[JCizzle]

I dont mind Outland other than the hellish spawn rates for ore - particularly adamantite.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

About the VP talk, I hit the VP cap only doing dailies. 8(

I also have like 3 stacks of those less coin crap.

 

[Enosh]

feng on 25 man man, some 30 wipes all together in the last 2 night
feng on 10 man today, 1 shot him

25 man really is like herding cats

also aftre our dps got some gear i found it really hard to be second on threat on that troll boss before the first banish, no vengeance sucks hard, I guess there is a small window between the banish and next voodoo dolls that I can taunt

 

[Bisnic]

About the VP talk, I hit the VP cap only doing dailies. 8(

I also have like 3 stacks of those less coin crap.

Ha, same. I got 2 stacks waiting in bank + 1 other in my bag that just reached the 180 stack. At least once im done with dailies, i'll have enough silver coins to turn into gold coins for months.

 

[Fularu]

Sigh... every single boss I killed this week gave me gold.

fml

 

[Ultratech]

Got my DK to 89!

But he's almost out of rested XP...which is something given I had him at full Rested at 86.

 

[Chris R]

I love how they play but I am concerned they will be watered down due to the community. Brewmaster currently is like a juggling act where you are constantly asking yourself "what should I spend chi on next?" Having BoF, Guard, or Purifying brew grant shuffle would immediately make the class less interesting/fun to play. These are the types of requests I imagine we will see more of as more people get monks to 90.

Tanking was already an unpopular role without tanks being hard to play. If Blizzard sees more people migrate away from tanking specs, they may decide to make the specs more forgiving (and therefore less interesting). It's possible that tanks will actually see more popularity in MoP now that they are fun to play, and now that gear progression has a more visible impact on tanks, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Is there a good guide on what exactly I should be doing in Brewmaster? Picked what I thought was a decent talent setup but don't know exactly what gear I should go after or what my rotation should be (was mainly using it in AV last night trying to tank Bal and then Vann).

 

[Entropia]

Wiping to Elegon because of dummies.

 

[B-Dubs]

Is there a good guide on what exactly I should be doing in Brewmaster? Picked what I thought was a decent talent setup but don't know exactly what gear I should go after or what my rotation should be (was mainly using it in AV last night trying to tank Bal and then Vann).

Use Jab and Keg Smash to generate chi (keg smash should be used on cooldown), use chi to either use Blackout Kick (to keep shuffle up), clear stagger stacks with purifying brew, hit guard (when magic damage is incoming), use expel harm to generate chi and heal when needed, and use elusive brew when you have about 9 or so stacks (you want to keep it up as much as possible and 1 stack = 1 second of buff time) and use Tiger Palm for filler and to buff your damage and guard ability.

That's all for single target fyi.

 

[Berordn]

Sigh... every single boss I killed this week gave me gold.

fml

Hey, me too.

fucking sha. GIVE ME MY TIER ALREADY.

 

[Enosh]

Hey, me too.

fucking sha. GIVE ME MY TIER ALREADY.

this!
only getting stupid pvp belts QQ

 

[Ultratech]

Wiping to Elegon because of dummies.

More bodies for the Floor Boss? lol

You'd think people would bother to look this stuff up or at least pay attention, but nope.

 

[Thoraxes]

I got my feral tier-pants from Sha on an extra coin roll this week

 

[Neki]

Wiping to Elegon because of dummies.

gotta beat the concept into their heads, multiple times

 

[Entropia]

More bodies for the Floor Boss? lol

You'd think people would bother to look this stuff up or at least pay attention, but nope.

gotta beat the concept into their heads, multiple times

This is our 2nd night of attempts on him. If we were having people falling, I'd have them replaced by now.

It's hard to explain, like people just aren't grasping the little things. Like, if this was LFR they'd be FINE. But this isn't, so they have to up their gamea bit.

 

[TheYanger]

The thing I really like in an unreasonable way is how you play Pac-Man with the invisible balls. Mostly because I find it really appropriate that the guy who tanks drunk has to pick up invisible healing balls that only he can see.

Haha

 

[Rokal]

Is there a good guide on what exactly I should be doing in Brewmaster? Picked what I thought was a decent talent setup but don't know exactly what gear I should go after or what my rotation should be (was mainly using it in AV last night trying to tank Bal and then Vann).

Icy-veins has decent summaries for each spec.

http://www.icy-veins.com/brewmaster-monk-wow-pve-tank-guide

Your gear should look almost identical to WW gear. Same stat priority, just with less total expertise.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

The thing I really like in an unreasonable way is how you play Pac-Man with the invisible balls. Mostly because I find it really appropriate that the guy who tanks drunk has to pick up invisible healing balls that only he can see.

Lolwat? I need to make a monk to check this out. Been busy with other characters though.

And EJ is still very good for Frost DKs and pretty good for Blood. Unholy I haven't checked in awhile, but it was doing okay as well last I remember. Some of the classes are pretty fucking dead though.

 

[Entropia]

Yanger, we aren't getting each other's friend request?!

 

[Yoshichan]

I'm tired of being the middle-man here! Just start kissing already!

 

[TheYanger]

It says request sent idk :/

 

[ampere]

We pugged a warlock to finish up Mogushan tonight and he shamed our dps... lol. I did pretty well but I did get hit by one combo strike, bah.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wec29eij8lwch8op/sum/damageDone/?s=2005&e=2634

I am freaking loving brewmaster tanking though, I feel so in control of my survival for the most part, and I don't take that much damage when I do it right. Also loving the talent choices.

One annoying thing about seeing my damage taken is that WoL has an error that double counts my staggered damage as melee in addition to stagger, so it's hard to tell from this log. Skada seems to display it fine. If you subtract the absorbed portion from the 'Melee' damage taken on me you might get clost to the right number, but some of that absorb is from my Guard or possibly a PW:Shield. You also can't just subtract the Stagger damage taken from the 'Melee' because I purify a lot of the Stagger damage and I'm not sure if there is a way to track (without an outside addon) how much damage I prevented from purification.

 

[Sarcasm]

Do I have your tag Entropia?

 

[Entropia]

Do I have your tag Entropia?

Zoinks

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Broke down and bought a Sapphire Panther off the AH for 23k. Figured that by the time I'd be able to make it myself (or even having someone make it for me), the price difference would be fairly insignificant considering the vendor mat is 20k (18k?) anyway. Besides the gems, all the other mats are pretty much worthless, so it was really a matter of convenience.

Was thinking about Ruby at first, but those were more up at 28k where it would be more economical to make myself/have someone make.

Also tripped the 100 Mounts achieve (red dragonhawk) since I went and bought all the Netherdrakes I never had before.

 

[Neki]

anyone know which is better weapon enchant for frost mage, elemental force or windsong?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Broke down and bought a Sapphire Panther off the AH for 23k. Figured that by the time I'd be able to make it myself (or even having someone make it for me), the price difference would be fairly insignificant considering the vendor mat is 20k (18k?) anyway. Besides the gems, all the other mats are pretty much worthless, so it was really a matter of convenience.

Was thinking about Ruby at first, but those were more up at 28k where it would be more economical to make myself/have someone make.

Also tripped the 100 Mounts achieve (red dragonhawk) since I went and bought all the Netherdrakes I never had before.

Depends on the cost of living steel and blue gems

 

[Dresden]

So I've been hopping around on alts trying to figure out which tank I want to stick with, and while I liked the Brewmaster, there was something that felt off about them--perhaps it was just the aesthetics, or the somewhat finicky nature of maintaining Shuffle, or w/e. Fun stuff though, even if I stalled at 87 or so.

Guardian Druid at 85 was a disaster, I hated it. Felt horribly clunky and slow.

It came down to either my paladin or my freshly 78 DK, and in the end I think I'll stick with the DK. My only regret is that he's not Horde so I could go Orc or Undead.

 

[Sophia]

anyone know which is better weapon enchant for frost mage, elemental force or windsong?

Jade Spirit > Elemental Force > Windsong, I would think.

Guardian Druid at 85 was a disaster, I hated it. Felt horribly clunky and slow.

Pretty much describes every Druid spec right now. Fundamentally works, but horribly clunky and with issues.

 

[Yoshichan]

Pretty much describes every Druid spec right now. Fundamentally works, but horribly clunky and with issues.

Did you just say that resto druids are "horribly clunky" and has "issues"? If anything, it's the most complete class in the game at this point.

 

[Sophia]

Did you just say that resto druids are "horribly clunky" and has "issues"?

They're lacking in burst healing, but yeah they're better off than Guardians are right now. Guardian and Feral are just a mess to play.

 

[Yoshichan]

They're lacking in burst healing, but yeah they're better off than Guardians are right now. Guardian and Feral are just a mess to play.

Resto druid's never been about burst healing, so why should that change? They're not anywhere near "clunky" or broken.

 

[Einchy]

feng on 25 man man, some 30 wipes all together in the last 2 night
feng on 10 man today, 1 shot him

25 man really is like herding cats

also aftre our dps got some gear i found it really hard to be second on threat on that troll boss before the first banish, no vengeance sucks hard, I guess there is a small window between the banish and next voodoo dolls that I can taunt

We're working on 25-man normal Elegon right now and just today we've started to make some good progression on it. We did an extra day the other day and set it to 10-man and all around it just felt so much easier.

 

[Sophia]

Resto druid's never been about burst healing, so why should that change? They're not anywhere near "clunky" or broken.

I... guess? They're not nearly as bad off as Holy Priests, at any rate. I stopped playing Resto once raids started, because we have an excessive of healers.

Given the state Guardians are in, I'm starting to regret my decision to be the main tank.

 

[Berordn]

They're lacking in burst healing, but yeah they're better off than Guardians are right now. Guardian and Feral are just a mess to play.

Having played both of those in a raid setting today... I can't really agree. What's wrong with them?

 

[Sophia]

Having played both of those in a raid setting today... I can't really agree. What's wrong with them?

Feral was brought back to the Wrath rotation with the Savage Roar, which makes the rotation unnecessarily hard. Savage Roar needed a buff, but they went too far again.

Guardian is based entirely around a proc mechanic that gets wasted most of the time thanks to GCDs.

They fundamentally work. But they're not all that fun to play. Only reason I continue to play them is out of respect for my raid and not burdening them with waiting for my Paladin or Monk.

 

[profit]

Sigh... every single boss I killed this week gave me gold.

fml

I know that feel, it sucks

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Depends on the cost of living steel and blue gems

Well I figured on average 200g per gem, which would total 4k for 20. Living Steel is 700ish (and I'm alch so could make up the difference I paid for cost there), and the JC gems are free basically, since you get an asston more than you could use just prospecting, so for 23k I may have had a pretty nice steal.