World of Warcraft |OT4| "Why do we keep playing? It is simply in our nature."
- Thread starter Entropia
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What have they removed? I can't think of any major ones.
Besides, what would you propose as the alternative? It sounds like you want them to output constant content, and that's not realistic, so perhaps I'm missing what you're after.
Hey, I felt that I had to! So many people complained about my face...
http://i.imgur.com/GI0pzKc.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
That's an idea: Choose the ugly faces just as an excuse to put bags over them.
Speaking of female trolls I had some of my worst leveling experiences of 1-20 f2p as Hunter with one. It might have gotten a bit better towards the end but it was also one of my last 1-20s and I had already lvld a bunch in the same zones.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Hey, I felt that I had to! So many people complained about my face
She looks like a fairy princess and I approve.
Jag
Member
I did it and it was the most grueling thing I've ever done in a game. Your points decayed so you had to keep going or lose the progress you made. I lost power for a few days after a hurricane was so pissed about the point loss. Wait times were hours long and the BGs could take hours as well. I got to Knight-Captain before I stopped, I just couldn't go any further.
Lots of people who that I knew who got Marshal either were in school and could play 24/7 or more likely had multiple people playing their toon just grinding it out. No way I could compete with that having a family and a job.
DJ Lushious
Member
Yeah, it's not a lot of fun. It's a gold sink, for one. Second, reforging hardly involves just one piece, since it cascades into every other piece. It's tedious any time a new piece is gotten. Really sucks out the fun it used to bring with it.
They just need to get rid of hit and expertise, then we wouldn't need to worry about reforging all of our gear when we get below or over the cap thanks to a new piece. Always hated those stats anyway. Let me focus on haste, mastery and crit dammit!
Tanks have active mitigation which allows us to parry, dodge and absorb more often. We love that. Why not turn the model around and make DPS actively manage their hit chance?
As someone who grinded the General title in vanilla WoW I can say no that wasn't even close to their vision. Back in the day when some of the only stuns were rogue kidney and cheap shot, and Pally hammer stun. Besides that most of the cc was snares, poly, and fear. Everyone had at least something, but its not like it is now where everyone has multiple stuns and cc's.
In fact back in the day, people complained sooooo much about rogues 4 second stun that Blizzard responded saying in the future they want PvP to possible have little to no control of your character and focus more on interrupts and movement skills. They basically promised the community to make it better but in the end, just about everyone has multiple stuns and cc's.
Anyways I'm rambling BAD. My point is back in the day Blizzard had a much better vision for PvP. In fact, vanilla PvP (while being super bursty and quick to die in most cases) was insanely more fun then it is today.
Unf. It's a shame I won't be even close to raid ready to experience this. I want Garrosh's dang shoulder horns.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Shouldn't the video be included in the patch files, or are those cinematics triggered by a server-side script?
Nevermind, just spotted strafer's post.
How does the encryption look? It shouldn't be too difficult to crack it.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Just get a group and fly around killing Warbringers and ask your partner to give you the GL insignias.
Gaining VP at a reasonable rate through the LFD (in Cataclysm), the removal of additional dungeons as a catch up mechanism, VP gear entirely. I want them to not remove ways to progress your character that are at least sort of fun and not painful to force us to basically wander around collecting bear asses in some form or another. Upgrading gear isn't fun at all. Its developer-fun, not player-fun.
The problem here is that Blizzard simply will not recognize that dungeons and raids are orders of magnitude more fun than the micromanagey bear-ass collection metagame.
Nope, I'm really still not seeing what you're driving at.You don't want to do that, fine, dive into LFR. Problem solved, awesome. Why weren't Heroic Scenarios adequate for your needs?
Additional dungeons were removed so they could transfer that effort into making the raids. That's why we're getting consistently expansive raids. Besides, additional dungeons are fun the first couple of times; I do tend to find them rather tiresome on the fifteenth/twentieth time!
I wasn't talking about getting two keys - I hadn't gotten any at all on either character. I eventually got 1 on my warrior from killing a rare, but I had both toons do everything on the island to try for a key (starting with finding a chest) and my warrior was the only one who ended up with 1.
I don't understand either, you can get your VP for the week solely on Dungeons/Heroic Scenarios/Raids without even having to touch dailies or battlefields.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
In 5.0-5.1, it took fucking forever to farm VP, Heroic Scenarios didn't even exist until 5.3 for one, and sure, you can do all of those now, but what do you gain? If you have LFR gear to upgrade, its still going to be LFR level gear. The whole point of VP gear in a LFR system is so you can get a couple of pieces of decent raid gear and break into normal modes. Well, now you can't.
The last patch of an xpac has typically been more about getting alts up to speed. That's why you can now get the 489/496 epic gear with JP by spamming dungeons, no rep required. So you can run some of the easiest content in the endgame and very quickly get gear that's better than T14 LFR and better, in some cases, than T15 LFR. (What's that, you say, you want an Agi/Crit trinket? Sorry Mr. Monk/Druid, I don't think so.)
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
496 isn't really cutting it for SOO though. That's just barely enough to even get into the LFR.
NotMyUsername
Member
And that's why there's other ways to get gear and stuff that requires more than the most minimal amounts of effort. It sounds like you expect them to mail you a weekly piece of 522 gear because gosh, it sure takes some work to get gear otherwise.
Everyone has pointed out to you that there's easy ways to gear up and multiple options out there but all you want is to grind dungeons for VP to buy high level gear. Considering all the JP can get you to 496 or whatever and there's still the 522 VP gear which you can buy by grinding your heroic dungeons you'll still gear up just fine without effort.
The game is meant to take some effort to get the higher end stuff.
522 from Shado-Pan assault. Which is being lowered in rep requirement with the patch.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
These aren't the official WoW forums, you need to pay attention to what's actually being discussed before posting that same generic "you want free gear mailed to you" nonsense that's been posted for a decade whenever anyone criticizes the progression path in the game. That has nothing to do with anything. Seriously, its so fucking obnoxious when people generalize any goddamn post about it with "you want free gear." Its tired and old and has nothing to do with the current conversation. We're talking about whether removing normal-raid level VP gear is fun, not whatever it is you're talking about with "mail free gear."
But normal raid level VP gear has been available every single patch until 5.4. ilevel 522 gear is easily able to get you into Siege of Orgrimmar, combined with all the other sources of 502/516 gear.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Are you saying there was something wrong with that system?
The problem isn't "getting into Siege of Orgrimmar" any more than Shado-Pan Assault gear was for "getting into Throne of Thunder." Its an extremely slow progression path that at least gives you something when you go weeks and weeks without getting anything. Upgrading gear isn't "fun," from a player standpoint. Its just complication-bloat that appeals to developers. Can you honestly say you think upgrading gear is fun?
Could any Shamans explain to me how the heck totems work now? I dusted off an 85 Shammy that I haven't touched in a long time and clearly something changed in that period. I guess the totem bar is gone? When I place a totem on the ground, like Searing Totem, three other generic totems show up with no apparent benefits. I think I'm missing something.
I think the "fun" level between upgrading gear and buying gear after a week and a half of getting VP is pretty equal, sure. I think you're just arguing to argue.
What is your ideal endgame setup for Blizzard to implement? This went from being annoyed at having to get VP to being annoyed at not being able to buy things with VP.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Yeah, its either just "arguing to argue" or maybe I genuinely believe that generically enchanting your gear to be exceedingly marginally better (which of course requires you have the gear in the first place) isn't as fun as getting a new piece of gear.
You're just changing the argument around from various scenarios to make it sound inconsistent, when it isn't at all. At launch, getting VP was indeed a chore; now, you can get VP easier and you can actually buy stuff with it. That's going away in 5.4. I don't see how there's an inconsistent message here; you're just arguing its not because you're failing to acknowledge the system is different now than it was either at launch or during other expansions.
Simply stated, I dont' think they should replace VP vendors with the Timeless Isle grinding hub. That's not really a complicated argument until you take it out of context to make it complicated; Timeless Isle should be a catch up mechanism much like every other inserted daily hub has been.
At this point you're just whining to whine, please stop.
What you are saying here is factually not true, VP is not going anywhere, if anything it will be more important to get from here and won't be completely useless after the first month of a patch like it usually is with only having a VP vendor.
Seriously read what you just said, you are saying that the ability to buy stuff with VP is going away in 5.4, like what the actual fuck?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's not in context. There's no new vendor, which, if you were following along, what I've been talking about the entire time. There's just the old vendors that offer gear well below the current ilvl. Try to follow the conversation please, because you're taking that quote way out of context in an unfair way (and being rude about it, to boot).
Here's the problem: VP doesn't buy you gear at SOO level, it buys TOT level. If you are in "alternate progression" it never buys you anything at current tier level. You're apparently conceiving of this argument from the perspective of a freshly dinged 90 as opposed to someone who's already in SoO and getting shut out of gear.
Orochinagis
Member
anyone have spare heartstone beta code?
I still dont get one to play it.
I still dont get one to play it.
NotMyUsername
Member
Others have replied adequately. And I still believe you want easy ways to get gear instead of experiencing new content.
I agree that upgrading gear is pretty dumb and a poor use for VP. I argued that some pages ago when we had the discussion about how many things you need to do to a piece of gear to make it wearable (gem, enchant, reforge, upgrade). Honestly I wish they didn't do the upgrade mechanic.
At the same time I don't think they should always put out VP gear with every patch to equal the current highest raid tier. I'd find it more acceptable if the ilvl wasn't as high since it ultimately takes away some of the thrill of getting new gear in LFR when half of the drops will be pointless. In fact, through VP you're able to get halfway geared to ToT heroic content with essentially no effort since getting VP, as you mentioned, is easy. And getting that geared for raid content with so little effort, I believe, is quite ridiculous. To get geared up for LFR so you can enter the raid and experience the first difficulty is completely acceptable.
You're saying that instead of one form of grinding, doing the Timeless Isle for better gear, you'd simply prefer a secondary form of grinding. That's what this boils down to.
There's better options for how to spend VP gear they could implement and I'm hoping to see more of that in the future. Let us buy the raid crafting materials to have other players make gear perhaps. Or just use VP to allow extra rolls instead of the coin system they currently are using.
Edit: I'll add that I think you have a valid point about how VP is spent. I just don't believe you're arguing it well.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There's no support at all for you belief I want free gear; in fact its patently nonsensical because acquiring VP requires performing time intensive activities in the first place and is gated to require three weeks of work to acquire the larger pieces. Its an asinine argument, really.
The problem with having upgrades as the sole current tier use of VP is that upgrades require you to already have the gear because there's a disincentive to spend VP to upgrade old gear that could get replaced by LFR or even Timeless Isle drops. VP is already gated; it provides very slow insurance towards not getting gear. Have you guys never played a tier where you didn't get any gear for three or four weeks? Because that sucks.
There isn't any reason Timeless Isle/Isle of Thunder type places can't exist alongside VP gear because as we've seen in the current game, you can give out VP for all sorts of different play styles. I'm not really sure how you guys turned "I think VP gear-rewards are valuable" into a huge argument semi-abusive argument about free gear.
You probably had one of your glyphs transform into something else. Pretty much all totems are cooldowns now. The only one you need to put down as part of your normal rotation is Searing Totem. Other key ones are Fire Elemental Totem, Earth Elemental Totem, Stormlash Totem (all long DPS cooldowns), and Healing Tide Totem.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
In some ways, I missed putting down totems as its class-iconic, and then I remember they were a huge immobile pain, and then transformed into a random extra button you pushed every minute for searing totem.
So I was on break when they apparently removed VP item upgrade vendor. I can't imagine how pissed off I would be If I had played during that time..
I really have no idea why Blizzard flip flops with golden ideas like this all the time. The VP item upgrade vendor is a hit, its brilliant. Going weeks to even months without getting a new piece of gear feels awful, being able to be like ok, I can log on weekly and upgrade what I currently have to improve my character. It gives people a reason to log on and KEEP playing.
Now the latest blue posts on MMO-champ are talking about how reforging isn't where they want it right now... like too many players are looking up the best stats and reforging is all the same... It's blowing my mind how stupid that is. They definitely sound like they are considering removing it completely from the game. I can't even begin to tell you how upset I would be if that happens.
I really have no idea why Blizzard flip flops with golden ideas like this all the time. The VP item upgrade vendor is a hit, its brilliant. Going weeks to even months without getting a new piece of gear feels awful, being able to be like ok, I can log on weekly and upgrade what I currently have to improve my character. It gives people a reason to log on and KEEP playing.
Now the latest blue posts on MMO-champ are talking about how reforging isn't where they want it right now... like too many players are looking up the best stats and reforging is all the same... It's blowing my mind how stupid that is. They definitely sound like they are considering removing it completely from the game. I can't even begin to tell you how upset I would be if that happens.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Ping-pong design philosophy is something that's driven long term players crazy for a decade now. That's kind of part of the argument above.
Does anyone on here play Rogue consistent? I'm still not entirely sure the best way to open up a rotation on a boss with Shadow Blades and Vendetta; it seems like I want to keep Vendetta up for SB, but I also want to pool energy for SB, which requires....sitting there.
NotMyUsername
Member
Honestly I was just using hyperbole about the free gear. That's why later I said you want easy gear. Considering you can get better than LFR gear on Timeless Isle that's your gear catch up mechanic you have available for when a raid doesn't drop gear for you several weeks in a row. Considering you can spend your VP you're earning on Timeless Coins which can then be spent on new gear it sounds like it's going to meet your end goal. And the time you take to grind out VP, the "time intensive activities", can instead be spent on new stuff you haven't done before on the Timeless Isle instead of continually grinding out the same heroic dungeons and scenarios you've been doing for months.
I still agree that upgrades through VP aren't the best solution.
The glyph thing has already been answered. I'll suggest you grab the add-on FloTotem as it's a simple add on that puts an extra bar above your action bars that displays all your totems. Makes it really easy to have them all visible and handy for an emergency click if you suddenly need one. I like having it there since most totems don't get used regularly and instead are random utility things.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
But LFR isn't the only system of play in the game. Normal raiders pick up VP gear too to fill in gaps and gear up when they don't get gear. And the thing about going to the Island in the alternative was my issue in the first place; taking away the vendor just removes choices in how you want to play and both of them require a pretty significant time investment in to the game. Having the VP vendor in the game wouldn't invalidate the Timeless Isles existence.
And I think its confusing to suggest VP you earn gets indirectly converted into 535s; you apparently have to grind the island to get the upgrade item (which assuredly isn't going to be easy to get).
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
If everyone reforges the same anyway, why wouldn't they just remove that mechanic, and then put the best stats for your class on the gear anyway?
Instead of having to reforge out of crit into haste, I just have haste on it.
I never got why it was there anyway, It's a dumb mechanic and everyone has looked up how to reforge since it came out. It should just be to add or remove hit rating. It's the only time I would get a piece of gear and not put it on yet because I need to get another one with more/less hit. As long as Str/Int/Agi always trump secondaries, there shouldn't be a reforge option.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Everyone kind of gems the same too, though, accounting for hit and expertise. I wouldn't argue about feature creep, though, since as the guy above was saying, you need up to four different modifications to any given piece of gear for it to be even usable.
That clears things up a lot.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
PVP is all about knowing your class' strengths and weaknesses, AND what classes you're playing against, AND how they work together.
First off; 2v2 is just there for conquest point cap. No one I know takes it remotely seriously competitively. The game isn't designed that way, and you just simply can't make classes so similar that any 2 can beat any 2. It's usually just one pair of 2 that is the best.
3v3 is still pretty good, it's all about living through the other teams cooldowns, and trying to do enough damage to make them use their defensive cooldowns without using damage cooldowns, so you can beat on them or make them use their trinket and then use offensive CDs on them.
5v5 is a battleground, it's all about procs and luck.
It's like a chess match, getting in a good position and knowing what your opponent will do before they do it so you can prepare for it.
RBGs are really fun, but it can also be about how many wizards you have or how well your one anchor class is, so it's got it's pros and cons.
My opening rotation is pretty much the same as the Icy-Veins guide. Icy-Veins Assassination Rogue Guide (scroll down to the 'Opening Sequence' section.)
You are aware you can use VP to buy Timeless coins, right?
Last I heard, these were also purchasable with Timeless coins.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
We discussed that above. The Timeless Coins buy upgradable gear which requires participation in TI grinding. Its not an end around the same thing.
They cost 50,000 Timeless Coins, I believe.
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