That's not the logistic problem he is talking about though. It is that much easier to get a more refined 10 man team than a 25 man team that has some underperforming members. 25 man guilds are falling apart.
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World of Warcraft |OT4| "Why do we keep playing? It is simply in our nature."
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That's not the logistic problem he is talking about though. It is that much easier to get a more refined 10 man team than a 25 man team that has some underperforming members. 25 man guilds are falling apart.
If you've actually done both, you realize this isn't true.
10 mans have more lax dps and healing requirements because they can't potentially make them as cutting edge due to the smaller size. It's just as easy to 9 man most 10 man content as it is to 24 man most 25 man content.
Yea, 25 man is like herding cats sometimes. In my experience you usually get about 15 guys that show up every time and there's a roster of about 20 or so that show up when they feel like it. It just turns into reteaching the fight over and over again, and 40 mans were even worse. I wish they had just gone with 15 instead of 10 or 25.
Gentleman Jack
Member
This is a mechanics/tactics disparity and not a logistical one. The only serious logistical problem 25 man guilds have is talent drain to 10 man guilds as attrition takes its natural course. It's harder than ever to fill a full 25 man roster with 25 talented and dedicated hardcore progression raiders. That's a function of WoW being old.
The ilvl disparity in ICC made 10 man guilds the Oakland Athletics of raiding. Cultivate talent, lose them to 25 man guilds because the loot was better. They leveled it out in Cata and I guess the reverse is now slightly true, compounded by the problem I mentioned above. We just have to pick our poison here.
40! Force the 10's and 25's to combine!
Good old days!
.
Or just force 15's.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Sylvanas was in Avatar?
SillyEskimo
Member
The first thing I thought was that she is not blue, like, at all. That's like someone cosplaying Darth Vader and making him orange. It kind of invalidates the rest of the costume no matter how good the rest of it is!
eudaemonic
Member
*laughing* Yeah, that's where my brain went with that too.
Not a fan. *shrugs*
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
She needs a zombie complexion. She just looks like a weird Night Elf.
Gentleman Jack
Member
40! Force the 10's and 25's to combine!
Good old days!
I see the divide as an ongoing experiment that's been going on since vanilla (Zul'Gurub). They're just constantly tinkering with the values. Either they'll get it to a stable state or they'll abandon it. I think the former is their current goal.
My personal vote is not to return to the ICC/ToGC loot disparities between 10 and 25 man versions.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Still kinda shiny...
I did Cata on a Scroll of Resurrection Goblin at 80 in 24 hours. Not saying it's a landspeed record... but yeah, you might even be able to get it under 20 hours.
I "believe" that when you cancel the recurring subscription is says canceled. Once the subscription ends it then says frozen. I could be wrong though. Mine just said frozen before I applied said SoR to it.
Oh yeah that makes sense. It's been a year since I was frozen. Fooking annual pass.
Agree to disagree.
All Wrath I did 25 man, all Cata I did 10. I had considerable experience in both and final sentence of yours I strongly disagree with.
Pre-nerf heroic baelroc, higher per player dps requirements on 25, tank dying was inevitable because gear did not permit beating the enrage, kiting the boss past enrage was required. 10 man, tank and spank with no funny business.
I raid 10s now because we can't field more than 12 decent players, but 25s are only easier if you remove player skill and logistics (big components of raiding) from the picture.
I raid 10s now because we can't field more than 12 decent players, but 25s are only easier if you remove player skill and logistics (big components of raiding) from the picture.
So wrong, just so wrong.
You lose 1 person in a 25 man and you've lost 4% of your raid, whereas in 10 man you've lost 10%. Lose a healer in 10 man and suddenly you're single healing/two person healing an encounter. Should you be two healing, your dps has suffered because of it. Lose a DPS and watch everything slow to a crawl as your healers slowly but surely run out of mana while the boss still has a lot more health to go. Losing someone in a 10 man is a far bigger deal than losing someone in a 25 man.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
What happened?!
Except that that's not ACTUALLY how it works. Bosses typically do vastly less damage and require less dps. You lose one of your THREE 10 man healers on Garajal, while 25 mans were four healing it with 2.5 times as many total, for instance? And you still saw 10 mans posting complaining the fight was too hard.
SuperAndroid17
Member
Pretty much , you can tell who's the oddball in 10mans.
...people 3-heal Gara'jal?
...yes
Huh. When we downed him we only used 2, since the enrage seemed impossible without it. Either healer dying was an immediate wipe, naturally. So they stopped dying.
I maxed out Archaeology! It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Just flew from one site to the next in the older zones.
I'm still a little confused about the things you can discover, though. Is it all just random chance? Like as far as making an uncommon artifact, or one of the rarer epic ones? I'm wondering if I should stick with a single type of digsite like Fossil or Dwarf and sort of "level up" that race. Or does the amount you uncover with each race not make a difference?
I'm still a little confused about the things you can discover, though. Is it all just random chance? Like as far as making an uncommon artifact, or one of the rarer epic ones? I'm wondering if I should stick with a single type of digsite like Fossil or Dwarf and sort of "level up" that race. Or does the amount you uncover with each race not make a difference?
Heh. One of our rogues who plays *far* too much was already lamenting that he was VP capped by Thursday. He's not gonna like that.
Stumble into pub in Kun-Lai Summit, find Deathwing's son, have a beer with him.
Yep, we do. We tried to 2-heal him, but often bumped on troubles when a healer was low on mana and couldn't go in the other world to fill up because of his voodoo doll debuff. Since the enrage timer wasn't an issue for us, we decided to just play it safe, 3-heal him, and we got him down with like 45 seconds spare.
But maybe we just have good damage dealers and shitty healers. In fact, I believe we do.
RPGCrazied
Member
Lots of bitching about dailies on the forums, its pretty funny. I on the other hand. I don't mind them actually. They go pretty fast, and great time wasters. I don't like buying rep gear with valor points though. As a person that hardly raids, I can only get the VP from quests, which don't give out very much.
Sarth3D was harder on 10 man for a brief period near the start of T7. Once people started getting geared out in that tier it became easier than 25 man.
25 man will always be the pinnacle of raiding to me, no matter what "world first" guilds transition to 10 mans. If most of the MotoGP riders dropped down to Moto2 because the fields are bigger, that wouldn't mean that MotoGP wasn't still the pinnacle.
You talking Heroic or Normal?
It's just the 110 per quest that kills it for me >.<. It goes so slow it feels like I'm not making any progress. I wish they'd implement capped tabards that would only award X amount of rep per day with X being the max you can earn through dailies.
If all you do is dailies, and maybe the 2 LFR raids, you can easily max your weekly VP with only that though. As long as you do dailies every day.
Speaking of dailies, i discovered a new one yesterday, probably the best one, and its from Golden Lotus on top of that! My character was literally rolling all the way on the western wall of the Vale, avoiding walls and black stuff on the ground, with speed items that made my character roll very very fast. Fun!
Have cut gem prices crashed on everyone else's servers? I move a handful a day for 8g-40g each on Zul'jin. Even uncut rare gems don't sell for much.
At this point I may just stop trying to sell them until we're deeper into t14 and there are more sockets to fill. Still bringing in decent money on trillium bars and golden lotus.
I am seeing cooking may prices going up. Plenty of folks offering 200g-300g for materials purchased with ironpaw tokens. Guessing that once everyone got to exalted with Tillers that they turned their farms into songbell factories, limiting the other mats.
At this point I may just stop trying to sell them until we're deeper into t14 and there are more sockets to fill. Still bringing in decent money on trillium bars and golden lotus.
I am seeing cooking may prices going up. Plenty of folks offering 200g-300g for materials purchased with ironpaw tokens. Guessing that once everyone got to exalted with Tillers that they turned their farms into songbell factories, limiting the other mats.
The problem with JC, though it's a good change for me, is that the patterns are incredibly easy to learn. I rarely ever did my dailies, so often times my guildies would be like "Wtf?! YOu don't have that pattern!? >:|"
Which I think a lot of people were in that boat too, now it's like.. here you can have all the recipes learned asap'ish.
Yeah, the cap of 1000 just makes me shrug.
Gates / caps to restrict my advancement everywhere. Annoying :/.
Roll Club is awesome. Need to be able to race guildmates / record times.
Both. When I jump to resto our raid dps drops too much, and we hit berserk during frenzy. Both our healers are good enough at managing their big stuff and the empowered soul buff that they don't need the buffer I'd provide.
We're probably carrying a few of our DPS, but c'est la vie.
Sounds like the inverse of us. Our healers (Mistweaver and Resto Shaman) don't really have any issue juggling the buff and conserving mana when they need to, and our tanks are usually good about their CD usage so we don't have any big damage spikes during on the dolls. If we get unlucky RNG there's enough innervates and mana hymns in the raid to help them out. On the other hand, our DPS is incredibly lackluster and only two of us are breaking 50k.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
70-80 is probably the most painful content right now to get through (besides 85-90 which is just long). Outland goes by so quick now that even if you don't like it, you'll be out in a blast.
Your DPS is slacking, incredibly. They either need more gear, or need to get schooled on the Mists changes to rotations/priorities.
Your DPS is slacking, incredibly. They either need more gear, or need to get schooled on the Mists changes to rotations/priorities.
I found Outlands still took a lot of times. I'm 78 now, and I feel like I didn't do anything at all in Northrend. I did most of Borean Tundra, some dungeons, a handful of quests in Dragonblight and Grizzly Hills and I was already 77. I just did some quests in Icecrown and I'm like halfway through 78 now.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Personal preference I suppose. Just kinda sick of Northrend at this point on my end after spending easily the majority of my playtime there.
Yeah...
On that note, anyone have useful tips re: Boomkin, Shadow Priest, Retribution and Enhance?
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